so i was going through some old posts and i saw one from 2004 about when i had just gotten lasik and i i am due for new lasik i need to go i need to get that sorted out do you think you'd be too old for lasik that's this is my turn can you get it again i don't know if i've heard people doing it twice because the guy the guy who gave it to me first was like oh you gotta you gotta come back in at some point and get it get it redone um so that sounds awesome i mean hopefully i can get it done again otherwise i'm gonna have to figure out what kind of glasses fit good on my face which is that's that seems like a trial yeah i saw someone on the tube and i'm gonna have to be that person who's got the glasses on their head to like look down at their phone or something or i don't know this is a little opportunity i mean i always am a little bit envious of folks who get to wear glasses and and it's like having this extra fashion accessory that i'm like well i don't really i don't have to pick those out there's some good statement ones i feel like you know get like like red rims yeah you know just really distract everyone in the room yeah when i when i want to start my seth godin uh consulting life up yes yeah by by way of introduction so when out when i'm in the uh the the dark night so to speak of uh of vision correctiveness i've got some doubts special guest who am i going to call up to give me some counseling but it's actually great that i've got new accessory so wait wait you're asking the person who has never been to an optometrist you had a very optimistic take on wearing glasses so i feel like i can talk to you and you can be awesome but but tell people who you are first oh okay yeah um i'm dormain dormain drewitz and i'm i'm a i'm a pivot and i'm this is a crossover episode because that's right i'm one of the co-hosts for every other week now um you know used to be a totally separate pivotal insights podcast and then
2:02we merged them um and as i was introducing you you may remember her from last episode or the one i was like i don't think my voice is too unfamiliar but you never know but this is i think our first crossover this is like batman visits scooby-doo sort of territory like this was this is a big deal yeah i mean i was thinking like there was um an episode of wow in the world when there was that's the children's science podcast we listened to at home um and then there was the the merry making musical storytelling children's podcast also on npr and there was a crossover episode about synesthesia um and that was that was my first introduction into the world of crossover podcasts yeah yeah well you know just as a short uh footnote the wow in the world's pretty great podcast it's yeah it's a good stuff it's uh what i think my favorite phrase of course mindy has all the great things other than like you know oh where's my kale like the other guys but uh but her my favorite phrase that i try to use as much as possible which is to say very rarely is like of course i don't know what i'm doing i think um yeah that's my kids have internalized that and uh for better for worse and so i'm very familiar with that phrase and it's it's great i think it it introduces you know you can have confidence in your uncertainty um and just as much as you can have confidence in your certainty that's right which is probably more dangerous yeah yeah and the gingerbread house anyways we should have a whole another fan fiction podcast about wow in the world yeah well also we need a we need a reggie like oh reggie the pigeon we don't have like a animal character who shows up and helps us sort of explore new territory this is i don't i mean pigeon was a pretty good one but um yeah we need to sort of
4:02explore that a little bit yeah yeah i bet if there's a hamster i bet if you got three people from marketing together they could figure out a good some kind of animal yeah not a mouse that's taken looking at richard's shirt right now i'm very disarming of people well before so we had we have you on uh to talk about podcasts and uh and also uh cf summit north america is coming up and i think you've got a good overview of what's going on there and you've been working on it here and there so i i wanted to talk about that uh afterwards but first as always richard what is exciting news in this space other than let me just insert the first one i'm here in london i i find that every time i'm in london walking around the tubes i get a sense of movies that are coming out because you know i have no idea since i'm uh someone needs glasses but there's this movie shazam coming out i don't know what's that yeah looks like something there's gum and an android phone involved so uh want to see but outside of outside of shazam what what's the news i was gonna say wasn't that a shack movie from the 90s that was kazam no that was no there was a shazam uh i don't know this is the superhero which i did have the action figure so i am looking forward to the movie ah yes yeah uh so news besides shazam related news uh so the the first one was you know i wanted to get your take on uh how you feel about foundations especially as we have the cf summit coming up but a lot of foundation stuff last week so there was a new continuous delivery foundation launched that uh included things like spinnaker jenkins put their jenkin x thing i believe in that foundation also a couple of node and javascript foundations merged i guess that's a crossover and then the graphql foundation joined forces and kind of partnered with another they got a bunch of new members including amazon so big foundation week i don't know are either of you uh what do you think of foundations without being maybe too uh too edgy but do you like the sort of open source foundation thing do you think that we have too many i don't know domain feelings
6:07i mean i i have a a great experience working with the cloud foundry foundation um you know it's i think as with open source projects and then you've got vendors and you know it provides this kind of third-party um uh you know institution right that can provide certain functions and if you look at even like the closed source proprietary world you end up with things like you know the oracle independent user group or the vmware user group and these vmug is like it's a it's its own entity right it's a sort of separate legal entity and it's you know by by users for users and they put on events and you know they just sort of provide this sort of external sounding board and so it sort of seems like in my experience it seems like the the foundation sometimes provide kind of that structured non-vendor um sort of entity that can help organize those types of things that in the proprietary world you would have just had you know the the quote-unquote independent user group interesting that's a that's a thorough answer you don't have anything else to add to it but yeah that's uh yeah you know what i've observed over that then let me proceed to add something to it uh what what i what i've observed over the years starting with like patchy software foundation and the eclipse foundation is uh yeah what dorme was saying you just have like this structure added to everything and uh that i think is very helpful and i think the other thing and you would see this especially i don't know if i i haven't paid attention to foundations this carefully this closely but i remember especially back with eclipse and asf there was a lot of talk about their their culture and like the process of and how their process affected or their culture affected their process right like with the asf you have this idea of like
8:09this is a good place to do whatever kind of like project of high quality that's basically run in let's call it a second generation open source thing where we've got kind of like a um controlled meritocracy meritocracy kind of has a bad name nowadays but it's sort of like technical excellence and we will gate that community versus like the the first wave of open source was like you know the one crazy person who had all the time to do this code and sometimes it would work and then you could also just have like whatever like doing it and then uh so the asf was good for that and then and then it was to contrast it eclipse was interesting because they were they i always liked how like blatant they were about like basically uh open source vendors want to open source their software and host it here and that's what we do and then they go make money off of it and it was just like boom straight up uh and so i don't know i think i think kind of codifying how your your project is going to live and what its mores are the foundation helps you do that and i guess nowadays they put on conferences things like that from what i can tell sure no i mean that's all fair sometimes it seems like it's a great pr move for those projects and the actual contributor mode doesn't change this sort of oversight doesn't really change you've just kind of gotten some more people to notice your thing versus fundamentally handing it off or things like that so it's fine i think as long as you're healthily cynical about things like that it's probably okay there's always deviousness that can go on that's fine but i mean i guess the other like tangential thing is like uh yeah i like the the the role of uh the role of how the long-term life of open source components that are used by everyone i'm i'm not sure what's up with that nowadays not i mean there's multiple ways of handling of how that's handled nowadays but it's almost like uh what's the old metaphor the cambrian explosion there's a lot of options that eventually need to narrow down because it used to be going back to my uh old person thing it used to be it was like you're you're an apache or eclipse or source
10:12forge and that's open source whereas nowadays it's like or you might be at a commercial company or you might be at a foundation or you might be in git or you might be over here or it might be that netflix project or whatever and so there's not like there's a huge amount of things and so maybe foundations can help out with that they can kind of realize what what that looks like good well speaking of foundations the uh next piece of news was something that's in a foundation so steel toe 2.2 we give gave that to the dot net foundation last year uh this is that toolkit for for people building dot net core dot net framework microservices 2.2 just shipped there's a link to the blog uh i think we put in the show notes and some new stuff in there if you're connecting the mongo db new health indicators for just kind of instantly instrumenting your applications client-side load balancing so some neat stuff in there if you're dot net dev you should absolutely be upgrading and i believe there's even some dot nets and windows stuff hanging out at cf summit this year so even if that wouldn't have usually been your jam and you wouldn't go to cf summit to learn that stuff you can this year you can you can jam it in there how how's how's sales of your book going you have you gotten that uh is it going to be caribbean or east coast of africa island retreat yeah at this point i think it's denny's uh for good for the uh royalties for that eggs over my cam is it the late night menu or are you going prime time like i mean i think because of that initial up front i think we can prime time it and everyone gets their own drink yeah and i had a gravy for everyone that's right no matter what you're eating get some biscuits and gravy right there put it in your iced tea i was excited uh i went to a place that said it was an american restaurant last night and i thought yeah have iced tea unsweet iced tea no such luck so okay you're this is something that i am struggling with as well because i'm a big unsweetened iced tea drinker and last time i was in switzerland i was i was actually worried that they just would not have any concept of iced tea and i went to the convenience store near the
12:15conference center and i found like 12 different varieties of iced tea in this random swiss convenience store but they were all sweetened varying degrees yes they were they all had some kind of sucker right like frustrating so and then when i go to australia it's the same thing like they only have piles of sugar in iced tea and it's like if you guys not realize that you can just sell it without adding the sugar you can probably get the same price and it's lower cost for you i suffer from this all the time so i i uh i experience your pain it's terrible okay i wasn't sure if this is like an all over europe thing or just no i was only paying attention in switzerland i think unsweetened iced tea only exists i think from maybe the mississippi probably to like the pacific and and i think maybe even once you get up to kansas it disappears and basically it's basically the unsweetened iced tea region of the world i'm thinking maybe we need an iced tea an unsweetened iced tea foundation to just raise some awareness and maybe bring some structure to how folks are thinking about and contributing to the unsweetened iced tea movement i think that's true the way we should sort that out we need to have a do they have birds of a feather community management at cf summit well i would be happy to lead one yeah it's on track so so then also in news i went on my other podcast uh software defined talk last week but they talked about this as the interesting open source business model thing it looks like f5 by the next did i say that right engine engine engine engine x you got it yes so you got the big load balancer company about the big open source load balancer thing that everyone seems to use yeah yeah i park in the f5 building so i need them to be successful because the parking rates are reasonable uh yeah as i mean you look at a company that's historically well known for hardware
14:17and software and sort of things on premises taking what is you know at this point the most dominant web hosting server and kind of routing tier in engine x so it's an interesting acquisition it's probably great exit for for engine x but again you just use i think it continues to make people wonder like what is that open source like if you're a company built around an open source product especially something that dominates on the on-prem tier as nobody in the public cloud has any sort of network component that plugs into something like that so does that get all commoditized i don't need those sort of components moving forward is my best exit to partner with these massive massive on-prem software companies is that the future of open source products i guess we'll see for that tier but great exit for them it just again draws more question as to you know what's the long-term future for a company built around open source middleware or database or open operating systems yeah yeah it'd be a good i mean as i always say as always happens when i say things like this i probably won't ever actually do it but it'd be a good case study of the long like the post-acquisition life of the business of an open source thing because i mean i realize f5 does you know more than just load balancing but it's pretty like it's they're pretty much their core business it's the thing that they do the next is the same way so it's pretty easy unless they suddenly add all sorts of other things you can kind of directly see how uh how it all fits in and how it pieces together but that'll be fun yeah that company's been around for a long time there's no doubt yeah and then also in the open source world it looks like uh amazon has its own now did i did i understand this right amazon has its own elastic search distro i never i always read this stuff too late in the night and so i don't get in detail to figure it out but i think it's yeah their own distribution right for the most part yes i mean this this dusted up i'm doing a meetup tomorrow night on whether the cloud kills open source so this was good fodder for that but the uh but the gist of it seems like amazon says you know they already run elastic search as a service right they already run that as a managed service they've done that for a
16:19while but the stuff from last week was hey you know the way elastic's been building this is they've been commingling some of the open source with the proprietary it just confuses people so we've created a distribution we amazon that kind of includes everything here's the open source here's things we've added that were kind of proprietary things from elastic that were mixed in we've put all that in the open source domain uh domain i always this kills me when domains on the call i say domain instead of domain i apologize at the beginning i'm sorry no it's a big problem uh but the idea is having that is more or less a distribution you can call it a fork is it a fork or not you know will those upstream changes that amazon is proposing get accepted by elastic so it's it's murky at this point on on where that's going to go amazon says look we're doing a service we're trying to mud you know clear up the muddy waters of the the source code in elastic search elastic says this is kind of you know tricky behavior by a cloud provider who keeps extinguishing interesting open source products so it just probably continues to draw to the forefront this question of how am i supposed to monetize open source middleware and database and things in this cloud era yeah yeah i don't know what the answer to all that is that that'll be i i mean i guess it's mostly determined by uh if everyone moves their infrastructure to public cloud then it makes that possible but yeah it's i always think of it as the uh yeah do y'all ever read that everything store book about amazon there's a good uh there's a good or so on diapers.com which you can kind of read the wikipedia entry of uh a little bit of what happened this probably i bet i bet from that era there's a fast company article it was a fast company was uh wrote up everything i just dug up a good 2012 fast company one hit the spot it's just what i was looking for yeah y'all remember the industry standard in the early 2000s yeah yeah that red herring a lot of those ones used to read red herring anyways uh yeah sorry i'm getting distracted again yeah we're gonna we're gonna talk about like uh something that's right
18:25uh yeah like like there's there's a there's a good story well one one thing that's great about the everything store is pretty consistently it describes the core strategy playbook of amazon and what they do and there's one chapter on diapers.com where uh basically uh i i don't know they wanted to acquire diapers.com or they were they both wanted to sell diapers um and so essentially what what amazon did is they basically ratcheted up their own diaper selling part to kind of uh compete with with the thing they wanted to do and so i don't know i mean diapers are not open source as far as i know we could have saved a lot of money uh maybe we'd have to implement them oh lord help us if diapers become open source yeah yeah more like open source probably yeah yeah let's keep that close so so there's some slightly different dynamics but it is it is i guess i guess what i'm trying to get to is in a cloud sort of business environment this kind of move is probably to be expected which i don't know i guess the main concern as an end user you would have is does this like stifle innovation from either side right like does it make people stop producing code and then or not or i don't know it'll be this is like the third type of thing like this will happen right so maybe i don't know what it looks like yeah no it's good the confusion doesn't seem to help um i mean at the end of the day i think if you're trying to build a business no matter what business you're in you should be focusing on you know what are the pain points of my customers that i can help them with and make sure you're solving that as opposed to let me build what i think you want which is support for an open source project over here and then you're going to be kind of caught up in the whiplash between well now there's potentially a fork over here and it's like well at the end of the day what does your customer actually need you to do um and and what what's painful for them i don't know it's that's my kind of uh lazy girl you know business
20:31school of hard knocks or whatever you want to call it yeah you don't want to have one of those mommy and daddy are fighting situations well speaking of foundations and open source and bird domain well what's what's up with with cloud foundry summit this year in america what have you been doing with it other than uh eagerly awaiting for it to happen yeah um um so what was interesting this year for me so i've i've been one of the co-chairs for the cloud foundry and the enterprise track for the last couple of um see if summits both both the north america and and europe and this year they they changed some things there was always i think a bit of a challenge where the call for papers wasn't or call for proposals whatever i never want to know what the p is supposed to stand for um the the call for proposals was around use cases and then those would funnel into like ones that my co-chair and i would be reviewing and definitely we would find a lot of great cloud foundry and the enterprise stories in there but there'd be a lot of other really good stuff too and we would be kind of working to get those into into the review cycles for other tracks so what they did this time is they actually changed what the the tracks were and what was interesting is there's really actually several different places where i think the types of stories from end users like i i'm just really interested always in hearing from you know it's it's important to get the latest updates from contributors and folks who are really um deep in the technology but to me it's just kind of my background i'm always interested in hearing from people who are actually kicking the tires and using the thing so this year there's a user stories track so that was one that i co-chaired with um burned from from sap
22:31but then there was also cloud foundry for business cloud foundry for developers cloud foundry for operators um and a cloud foundry 101 track and really all of those are going to have end user stories woven into them um and but with kind of whatever the flavor of that track is about so there's some really great ones you know obviously cloud foundry for business is sort of another really natural spot for some of these end user stories to come up so dick sporting goods has um as a really interesting looking talk in there about this kind of mad dash to uh the holiday selling season and so i think this is you know a good good track to look at if you're trying to connect those dots between the technology and the effort to how this is actually going to help me in my business um so i'm looking forward to that one and a couple other talks in the the cloud foundry for business track and then there's some some interesting stuff in you know cloud foundry for operators where you know you've got folks like t-mobile and comcast who are really testing um and pushing the the limits of well not even limits but they're just they're they're breaking through new new barriers of scale right and so they're they're able to share out some of their experiences of operating at scale that most of their folks aren't yet at and so um i think that's going to be really interesting for those operators of the world who are uh looking and dealing with those types of problems like what happens when we suddenly have you know two thousand developers on the platform and we've got thirty thousand um app instances and containers running on the platform what kind of challenges can i expect and what are some insights that i can learn so i think what's and then the the user stories is actually really only a it's almost like a half track it's just one day there we've got kind of just a a mix of different stories like we've got um you know a talk from nasdaq
24:36about dot net and there's um you know there is the a talk from comcast about running at you know massive scale uh there's there's a deep dive from state farm um that's called cracks in the foundation so i know just given our talk so far i'm waiting for the next time you're going to say speaking of foundations um and so really their their experience and and sort of some of their lessons learned so yeah i think that's you know i like that there's now more tracks and just more that where where these kind of user stories can come out i mean it's always been an option for folks to submit to whatever track but i think it makes a difference when those track titles are something that an end user feels like hey this is something i've got some wisdom to share um on that topic whereas you know when it's kind of core updates you know that's those are going to be a lot of the the core committers which you know most of the end users are are not quite there yet um you know there's a lot of end users who are members of the foundation and are starting to contribute back but you know it's it's still kind of early days for that yeah so do you like this uh switch i remember from a couple years back there was like a track for node.js it'd be a track as you said for like core updates so this kind of switched almost persona based and scenario based do you like that do you find that more welcoming or you think that's easier for a first timer who do you think that caters to the most i'm i'm optimistic about it i mean honestly like until you're really there i think you're not going to fully know like how it works out but i think it opened up more we were kind of running into where we didn't have enough space in the cloud foundry for the enterprise track the last couple times to actually accept all the end user talks and to me that felt you know like um uh it's a missed opportunity and so i
26:37i like that this is now providing kind of more places that i think are going to make it attractive for actual end users to to submit and get talks accepted i mean you've mentioned a couple times that i don't know almost unusual amount of end user talks so if we compare this i mean this is cloud foundry is a mature product project right so i mean compare that to you know we have a large presence at more of the up-and-coming shows as well the cube cons and things like that where it's mostly tech talks and a couple of customers presenting and that's natural it's new tech do you think this is unusual you attend a good number of shows is the amount of end users sort of presenting their stories and not just like here's how we tinkered like here's how we're running stuff at scale that strikes me as that's not something i see that often is that somewhat unusual here i mean i'm not there's so many tech shows these days like i can't claim to have a perfect view of the landscape i mean i do have perfect vision but it's not it's not for things like this um yeah we're just just gonna recycle that a little bit um but i i really like that about um you know the the cloud foundry summits and yeah i do sometimes get disappointed when going to other shows and there's or i'll look for the the end user talks and find that it's not really about any kind of like an infrastructure software it's something you know more of a end user application um or uh so for from an infrastructure perspective it's it's really cool to to see you know real end user kind of war stories um you know or where you kind of end up with like a a product manager is sort of doing like 90 of the talk and then they did manage to get an end user but that person is just talking for like five minutes um those sometimes also are a little bit disappointing so uh here it's sometimes it is paired with like the someone from you know say stark and wayne or pivotal but it's usually like it's the platform
28:40architect for pivotal who's really there on the ground who's really familiar with what's happening they're not um they're not a product person and you know stark and wayne is one of the um you know systems integrator uh consultants in the cloud foundry ecosystem and so they've got a lot of you know good hands-on experience where when they're up there sharing the stage with one of these end users it's it's usually they've got a lot of insight into what's actually happening at that particular implementation yeah the last part something else you mentioned earlier when you were describing the conference this year was the the kind of 101 starter sort of track like introduction if you look through that track it is like what the heck is cloud foundry i've got one a talk on just the sort of things you can run there and again for a mature technology you might argue gosh don't you know already but i think it's kind of neat we're doing that again do you find that useful do you think that takes away that hey instead of a 101 track we should have more deep dive stuff or do you think it fills a great niche in a show like this i think it's great because i think the 101 experience isn't static um and so there's and this is something that you know even if you're internally operating the software really any you know anyone who's built a platform on whatever you built it with it's not static and so whatever that that 101 experience whether it's the onboarding experience it's the you know installation experience it's thinking through like how are you going to do your first upgrade um all those things are potentially evolving all the time with whether it's you know new parts of software that are actually part of cloud foundry itself you know open source cloud foundry or it's um you know a new practice a new methodology that's kind of emerged from more and more experience from folks who are doing it all the time and so you kind of you want to continue to refresh what the 101 story is um and and not let that get
30:45too stale so i think it's great and i and i like the the kind of persona identification so you know folks know hey if i'm going to this conference i i know which talks are for me i think it helps yeah i guess i guess it sort of raises uh the the technical and uh end user sessions so to speak i mean that raises a little bit of what we were talking about with foundations earlier is uh if you don't have like a big commercial entity behind whatever the ecosystem to use an old term you have is then there needs to be someone making sure the community talks with each other regularly and they know how to work with each other and what all the kind of uh social graces or norms are and that that seems to like that's where you get those fun phrases like birds of a feather which is an odd phrase but i i guess i mean that is like a nice opportunity to have at these uh there's basically three of these a year right in the us and europe and asia did i make up an asian one i'm not i don't double check i i haven't been involved with they should have one in asia that would be yeah but uh i think they did do one in in china but i'm not sure if they did it last year okay that's probably why i remember i'm not just totally making stuff up only halfway but yeah i mean that that seems like a a good opportunity to have people come together and and usually usually you have some sort of uh session during a you know a keynote or whatever where the state of the community has gone over which is fun and then and then i guess they'll be releasing the uh the cloud foundry foundation survey or a new one that's always fun to comb through see lots of new bar charts and and how people are using things so are there are there any uh like like of of the sessions you've gone over like what are what are the the must-see ones that you're going to go to and and i ask that kind of enviously because i think they're basically they record the sessions and then i think maybe a month later the videos come out and every now and then i come across like your notes on stuff and and pictures so like you'll you'll get a you'll you'll have the content fresh before the rest of us do to yeah i i always have fun kind
32:50of live tweeting and then i try to write at least one takeaway you know within say a week um i just find if you don't you know like it has to be forged in the fires of the that moment um otherwise you know those ideas start to kind of slip away from you but i i just sort of look for patterns across what users are doing i mean i still have some from the the last um summit in switzerland that are kind of kicking around i'm just sort of looking around for a little more evidence uh before i think i really sit down for those but um so let's see just looking through the some of the talks that i've got in that i've kind of picked out i i definitely want to hear kind of the the nasdaq story since um i think you know dot net and windows uh workloads are super important if you look at any major enterprise it's you know they're they're gonna have a mixed environment and so i think making sure that there's enough visibility on and and shared experiences and lessons learned are critical really for for enterprises to be successful with anything so looking forward to that one um i am looking forward to that that state farm deep dive it's uh it's going to be a long one but um that's that's definitely on my radar there's two that are kind of about scale there's um there's one from comcast and there's one from t-mobile those are definitely on my my radar um there's one from t-mobile also on chaos engineering which is one of those areas that i'm i'm kind of it's come up now a couple times of uh folks using cloud foundry and um using chaos engineering and so i'm trying to learn a little bit more about both the practice of chaos engineering as well as
34:50how people are using it within a cloud foundry context because you know um you've got chaos engineering can apply you know fully up and down the stack you you can apply it at your very front end layers all the way down to hardware um and then you know when we come back to that idea of the personas right there's one thing in a cloud foundry environment is you you tend to have this kind of separation of concerns if you will between what the operators are responsible for and then what the developers are responsible for um and one of the nice things about it is you get um like a lot of empowering for developers without really burning them with responsibility and i think that that's where especially when you're talking about the application runtime um you you get a lot of that uh kind of definition around who's responsible for what but really then what what do they have to do to maintain that responsibility so i'm curious how chaos engineering fits into that like is that something that the operators are running is it something that developers should be practicing themselves is it something that there's another group that should be involved in so i kind of want to hear more experiences around that um there's another talk from the air force uh so uh brian kroger who i know has been a guest on on your show and raytheon are co-presenting on um testing right and just sort of the the breadth of testing and i'm you know interested in that so i'd like to see what what folks are saying about how pervasive they're getting with their testing since that seems to be one of the the major secrets to success if you will there's a couple of talks around um functions of a service and serverless so there's there's one from comcast and then you know our colleagues uh brian and brian are giving another one um sort of looking at knative and so that's probably another area i want to sort of see what what folks are doing uh lately and and how that's starting to manifest on the platform
36:52so basically you're going to go to every single talk that's well no i mean like i can't so i need to let other people know about these so that they can go and live tweet them too oh they can take notes yeah that makes that oh that wasn't what this exercise was exactly that's what i was trying to get you to do for me yeah um get the notes exactly i know there's there's there's a lot no this is actually like i've i've way filtered down the the number of talks um from what from what's there it's just these are the the kinds of themes and stuff i'm just sort of flipping through what my my schedule looks like right now um oh oh here's another one the um the team from west corp has one about migrating 170 applications in 18 months and i've heard a little bit about you know the kind of extensive modernization re-platforming work that they're doing there and i mean i think that you know digging into the whole modern i mean that new is awesome and great but really getting your house in order and dealing with modernizing or at least re-platforming legacy workload is where the major value comes from and so anything that kind of shares lessons learned and wisdom around how do you do that and how do you do it at scale um is i think going to be really valuable so i'm really excited about that one too yeah i mean that that overview like uh encyclopedic joking aside it's a good example of i'll have to remember this next time because i'm always trying to explain like you know in the in the pivotal world there's like you know all our great software and process and methodology and then on top is this like culture and community thing which of course is not in the in the cloud foundry world is not only pivotal but it's you know we're part of it
38:53but as you were just going over there's this community of uh i think they used to say practice like people sharing how they've done things and going over like best practices and i guess worst practices not only the technology level but also uh like you're saying like if we're going to move 170 applications there's definitely technical things to that but there's a bunch of other things we need to worry about or how do we how do we uh you know between raytheon and the u.s air force like how do we make testing fine because yeah there's a lot of like technical part to testing which everyone's grateful for but there's also just like having the organization trust that those tests are good and truthful that you have to sort out usually so yeah i mean just i mean i think you provided a good example of like this is this is the community of people that after i don't know five or so years of cloud nativey kind of stuff that like has emerged and and because you have stuff like the the cf summit and other things like uh you know it exists somewhere you don't just have to find it in the backs of magazines or whatever like speaking of old magazines do you ever do you ever read the spencer f cat rumor column any week i wish that was around still but uh anyhow that's a good overview i'm looking forward to the notes yes yeah it was a nice part two in your summary domain it was a nice highlight of there's a lot of hey what are we doing now but there's a lot of futurey stuff as you mentioned right fads service meshes a lot of kubernetes a lot of so this is not just a backwards looking like here's what we set up and how we run it it's a lot of still what we're going to be doing next which i think is cool as we look at still focusing on outcomes as you mentioned over and over again right still the software it's the outcomes the things that matter but it's fun to also explore the tech that makes it possible absolutely all right well thanks for joining us for this uh whirlwind tour of cf summit in philadelphia in what just a couple of weeks first week of april i think yeah i uh i hope folks
40:54can make it out i i think it's a great conference and um i'm always busy like a bee it's a whole week there so um lots to do there's a user day um you know before the conference really kicks off there's a great unconference um that happens kind of the night before so some additional activities around the the main event as i recall there's lots of cobblestone in philadelphia which is a strange experience if you're not used to cobblestone across it all sorts of stuff like that it's the area i grew up in so i need someone to join me on monday as we go find a good cheesesteak because i am that's happening monday afternoon so let me know if you'd like to join me on the hunt well there's two things i wanted to close on but you you've raised up one of them now now if people were going to do one philadelphia thing richard what should they do like let's say say they're at cf summit they've got 90 minutes to 120 minutes right like what are they gonna what are they gonna go do you go see the bell get a cheesesteak what's what's what's your your number one i mean i was gonna say throw snowballs at santa but that was a dark day for us in philadelphia so you shouldn't do that uh you probably do the independence hall liberty bell get a cheesesteak oh yeah yeah yeah yeah there's like that glass cabinet the liberty bells in if i remember and then like a few ways over is the famous cheesesteak place a few blocks over or something like that and baseball hasn't started yet so or well i don't think they'll be home that week so unfortunately you can't catch a phillies game and and yell obscenities of players next time what is it the phillies monster what's their they're they're they're uh they're like a big baseball or something no the philly fanatic and then uh they have some some creature from everyone's nightmares who does hockey gritty so oh yeah great mascots yeah he's got that giant head oh gosh yeah he's yeah and a square jaw and
42:54everything yeah yeah if you spend the night on mushrooms or something gritty is going to show up so you can find those around the liberty bell and then and then and then so so dormain what what is your tip like what what are the best evening things how should people plan out should they just go to a bunch of evening parties only get a cheesesteak like how should they how should they deal with their evening time oh wow um yeah i uh i never really think about this too much because i'm always making sure that there's at least one karaoke outing um well that's your answer right there yeah so i'm i'm we're trying to figure out the karaoke situation and fill it like every city is kind of different in their their karaoke scene so but you know some some folks over at comcast are already working on doing the research so like it's really a team effort at this point and it's it's going to be fun hopefully they're they're emailing around a lot of powerpoint decks with weighted excel spreadsheets so having to come up with that executive slide of karaoke places i guess i guess they would know yeah yeah you know you're giving me some great ideas Coté of how to really um in power through this yeah kind of like make the the process a little bit more rigid that's right i thought you said you could only sing songs from the city you're in so it's got to be nothing but songs from people who grew up in philly uh-huh or songs about bells that's about it's you got boys to men i don't know what else you're doing boys to man is from philadelphia wow okay that's that's basically the fun fact for me in this whole episode was is it bobby brown was in boys to men right or am i mixing up my boy no that's uh no that's not him no no it's not poison um no no he's not i think what he was in that would be a great alternate
44:56universe maybe that's what happened in the watchman alternate universe is is uh brown wasn't poison no that's not right yeah well well on that note uh as always this has been Pivotal Conversations you can find domain's lovely conversation i mean uh not conversation it is a conversation now where where would people go for your podcast would they press maybe a double arrow button um i mean you have a better way of explaining how to find our podcasts usually because it's the same place where you find this podcast so if you found this one the good news is you've also found the podcast i do with jeff that's right you just need to subscribe so that you get both weeks um yeah and there's no way i think now if you leave a review to like you know uh qualify it as like well i like it i like hearing Coté talk about meat and delicious things with richard but like dormain and her random you know analogies with jeff i don't know you know like you gotta just bite the bullet leave a review for both that's right you can't you can't you can't only like mindy or only like guy ross no you gotta like them together and you know even though like reggie isn't a person you just have to assume that reggie is getting credit with whatever review you leave for for wow in the world absolutely well well that's another exciting bunker balls episode i think we've had hopefully it's been a little help you've learned something and uh you know you can find this podcast and domains all of the great podcasts over at soundcloud.com Pivotal Conversations with no space you should try to put a space in to see what happens uh that would be fun send us the results and uh hopefully you'll show you'll go to a cf summit you can do some karaoke and uh you know see some bells cheesesteaks we'll see everyone next time bye