1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 so i was going through some old posts and i saw one from 2004 about when i had just gotten lasik 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,480 and i i am due for new lasik i need to go i need to get that sorted out do you think you'd be too 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,880 old for lasik that's this is my turn can you get it again i don't know if i've heard people doing 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,960 it twice because the guy the guy who gave it to me first was like oh you gotta you gotta come back 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:28,980 in at some point and get it get it redone um so that sounds awesome i mean hopefully i can get it 6 00:00:28,980 --> 00:00:32,420 done again otherwise i'm gonna have to figure out what kind of glasses fit good on my face which is 7 00:00:32,420 --> 00:00:39,760 that's that seems like a trial yeah i saw someone on the tube and i'm gonna have to be that person 8 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,780 who's got the glasses on their head to like look down at their phone or something or i don't know 9 00:00:44,780 --> 00:00:52,680 this is a little opportunity i mean i always am a little bit envious of folks who get to wear glasses 10 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:58,240 and and it's like having this extra fashion accessory that i'm like well i don't really i don't have to 11 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:03,360 pick those out there's some good statement ones i feel like you know get like like red 12 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:09,300 rims yeah you know just really distract everyone in the room yeah when i when i want to start my 13 00:01:09,300 --> 00:01:17,200 seth godin uh consulting life up yes yeah by by way of introduction so when out when i'm in the uh 14 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:25,060 the the dark night so to speak of uh of vision correctiveness i've got some doubts special guest who am i 15 00:01:25,060 --> 00:01:29,380 going to call up to give me some counseling but it's actually great that i've got new accessory 16 00:01:29,380 --> 00:01:34,480 so wait wait you're asking the person who has never been to an optometrist 17 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:41,920 you had a very optimistic take on wearing glasses so i feel like i can talk to you and you can be 18 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:50,560 awesome but but tell people who you are first oh okay yeah um i'm dormain dormain drewitz and i'm i'm a 19 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:56,320 i'm a pivot and i'm this is a crossover episode because that's right i'm one of the co-hosts for 20 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:02,960 every other week now um you know used to be a totally separate pivotal insights podcast and then 21 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:10,140 we merged them um and as i was introducing you you may remember her from last episode or the one 22 00:02:10,140 --> 00:02:17,880 i was like i don't think my voice is too unfamiliar but you never know but this is i think our first 23 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,540 crossover this is like batman visits scooby-doo sort of territory like this was this is a big deal 24 00:02:22,540 --> 00:02:30,460 yeah i mean i was thinking like there was um an episode of wow in the world when there was that's the 25 00:02:30,460 --> 00:02:37,820 children's science podcast we listened to at home um and then there was the the merry making musical 26 00:02:37,820 --> 00:02:44,220 storytelling children's podcast also on npr and there was a crossover episode about synesthesia 27 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:53,660 um and that was that was my first introduction into the world of crossover podcasts yeah yeah well you 28 00:02:53,660 --> 00:02:59,580 know just as a short uh footnote the wow in the world's pretty great podcast it's yeah it's a good stuff 29 00:02:59,580 --> 00:03:04,460 it's uh what i think my favorite phrase of course mindy has all the great things other than like you 30 00:03:04,460 --> 00:03:09,980 know oh where's my kale like the other guys but uh but her my favorite phrase that i try to use as 31 00:03:09,980 --> 00:03:16,300 much as possible which is to say very rarely is like of course i don't know what i'm doing i think um 32 00:03:16,300 --> 00:03:25,340 yeah that's my kids have internalized that and uh for better for worse and so i'm very familiar with 33 00:03:25,340 --> 00:03:30,540 that phrase and it's it's great i think it it introduces you know you can have confidence in 34 00:03:30,540 --> 00:03:35,740 your uncertainty um and just as much as you can have confidence in your certainty that's right 35 00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:40,700 which is probably more dangerous yeah yeah and the gingerbread house anyways we should have a whole 36 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:47,100 another fan fiction podcast about wow in the world yeah well also we need a we need a reggie like oh 37 00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:55,020 reggie the pigeon we don't have like a animal character who shows up and helps us sort of explore 38 00:03:55,020 --> 00:04:02,300 new territory this is i don't i mean pigeon was a pretty good one but um yeah we need to sort of 39 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:07,500 explore that a little bit yeah yeah i bet if there's a hamster i bet if you got three people from 40 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:13,500 marketing together they could figure out a good some kind of animal yeah not a mouse that's taken 41 00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:20,460 looking at richard's shirt right now i'm very disarming of people well before so we had we have 42 00:04:20,460 --> 00:04:27,340 you on uh to talk about podcasts and uh and also uh cf summit north america is coming up and i think 43 00:04:27,340 --> 00:04:32,860 you've got a good overview of what's going on there and you've been working on it here and there so i 44 00:04:32,860 --> 00:04:39,020 i wanted to talk about that uh afterwards but first as always richard what is exciting news in this space 45 00:04:39,020 --> 00:04:45,100 other than let me just insert the first one i'm here in london i i find that every time i'm in london 46 00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:49,740 walking around the tubes i get a sense of movies that are coming out because you know i have no idea 47 00:04:49,740 --> 00:04:55,580 since i'm uh someone needs glasses but there's this movie shazam coming out i don't know what's that 48 00:04:55,580 --> 00:05:01,740 yeah looks like something there's gum and an android phone involved so uh want to see but outside of 49 00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:07,900 outside of shazam what what's the news i was gonna say wasn't that a shack movie from the 90s that was 50 00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:14,220 kazam no that was no there was a shazam uh i don't know this is the superhero which i did have the action 51 00:05:14,220 --> 00:05:22,300 figure so i am looking forward to the movie ah yes yeah uh so news besides shazam related news uh so the 52 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:27,260 the first one was you know i wanted to get your take on uh how you feel about foundations especially 53 00:05:27,260 --> 00:05:31,100 as we have the cf summit coming up but a lot of foundation stuff last week so there was a new 54 00:05:31,100 --> 00:05:36,860 continuous delivery foundation launched that uh included things like spinnaker jenkins put their 55 00:05:36,860 --> 00:05:42,780 jenkin x thing i believe in that foundation also a couple of node and javascript foundations merged 56 00:05:42,780 --> 00:05:48,540 i guess that's a crossover and then the graphql foundation joined forces and kind of partnered with 57 00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:52,700 another they got a bunch of new members including amazon so big foundation week i don't know are 58 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:58,460 either of you uh what do you think of foundations without being maybe too uh too edgy but do you like 59 00:05:58,460 --> 00:06:05,580 the sort of open source foundation thing do you think that we have too many i don't know domain feelings 60 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:14,780 i mean i i have a a great experience working with the cloud foundry foundation um you know it's 61 00:06:16,460 --> 00:06:24,140 i think as with open source projects and then you've got vendors and you know it provides this kind of 62 00:06:24,140 --> 00:06:32,780 third-party um uh you know institution right that can provide certain functions and if you look at even like 63 00:06:32,780 --> 00:06:39,020 the closed source proprietary world you end up with things like you know the oracle independent user 64 00:06:39,020 --> 00:06:47,260 group or the vmware user group and these vmug is like it's a it's its own entity right it's a sort of 65 00:06:47,260 --> 00:06:56,220 separate legal entity and it's you know by by users for users and they put on events and you know they 66 00:06:56,220 --> 00:07:03,820 just sort of provide this sort of external sounding board and so it sort of seems like in my experience 67 00:07:03,820 --> 00:07:09,820 it seems like the the foundation sometimes provide kind of that structured non-vendor 68 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:17,180 um sort of entity that can help organize those types of things that in the proprietary world you 69 00:07:17,180 --> 00:07:23,260 would have just had you know the the quote-unquote independent user group interesting that's a that's 70 00:07:23,260 --> 00:07:29,020 a thorough answer you don't have anything else to add to it but yeah that's uh yeah you know what 71 00:07:29,020 --> 00:07:33,580 i've observed over that then let me proceed to add something to it uh what what i what i've observed 72 00:07:33,580 --> 00:07:37,980 over the years starting with like patchy software foundation and the eclipse foundation is uh 73 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:42,460 yeah what dorme was saying you just have like this structure added to everything and uh that i think is 74 00:07:43,420 --> 00:07:49,020 very helpful and i think the other thing and you would see this especially i don't know if i i haven't 75 00:07:49,020 --> 00:07:53,820 paid attention to foundations this carefully this closely but i remember especially back with eclipse 76 00:07:53,820 --> 00:08:02,060 and asf there was a lot of talk about their their culture and like the process of and how their process 77 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:08,460 affected or their culture affected their process right like with the asf you have this idea of like 78 00:08:09,340 --> 00:08:15,260 this is a good place to do whatever kind of like project of high quality that's basically run in 79 00:08:15,980 --> 00:08:20,140 let's call it a second generation open source thing where we've got kind of like a um 80 00:08:21,020 --> 00:08:25,500 controlled meritocracy meritocracy kind of has a bad name nowadays but it's sort of like 81 00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:31,900 technical excellence and we will gate that community versus like the the first wave of open source was 82 00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:36,780 like you know the one crazy person who had all the time to do this code and sometimes it would work and 83 00:08:36,780 --> 00:08:42,380 then you could also just have like whatever like doing it and then uh so the asf was good for that 84 00:08:42,380 --> 00:08:47,020 and then and then it was to contrast it eclipse was interesting because they were they i always liked 85 00:08:47,020 --> 00:08:51,340 how like blatant they were about like basically uh open source vendors want to open source their 86 00:08:51,340 --> 00:08:55,260 software and host it here and that's what we do and then they go make money off of it and it was just 87 00:08:55,260 --> 00:09:02,700 like boom straight up uh and so i don't know i think i think kind of codifying how your your 88 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:08,940 project is going to live and what its mores are the foundation helps you do that and i guess nowadays 89 00:09:08,940 --> 00:09:15,260 they put on conferences things like that from what i can tell sure no i mean that's all fair sometimes 90 00:09:15,260 --> 00:09:19,420 it seems like it's a great pr move for those projects and the actual contributor mode doesn't 91 00:09:19,420 --> 00:09:23,580 change this sort of oversight doesn't really change you've just kind of gotten some more people to 92 00:09:23,580 --> 00:09:29,100 notice your thing versus fundamentally handing it off or things like that so it's fine i think as long as 93 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:34,060 you're healthily cynical about things like that it's probably okay there's always deviousness 94 00:09:34,060 --> 00:09:39,660 that can go on that's fine but i mean i guess the other like tangential thing is like uh 95 00:09:41,740 --> 00:09:49,340 yeah i like the the the role of uh the role of how the long-term life of open source components that 96 00:09:49,340 --> 00:09:55,420 are used by everyone i'm i'm not sure what's up with that nowadays not i mean there's multiple ways of 97 00:09:55,420 --> 00:10:01,420 handling of how that's handled nowadays but it's almost like uh what's the old metaphor the cambrian 98 00:10:01,420 --> 00:10:05,820 explosion there's a lot of options that eventually need to narrow down because it used to be going 99 00:10:05,820 --> 00:10:12,620 back to my uh old person thing it used to be it was like you're you're an apache or eclipse or source 100 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:17,580 forge and that's open source whereas nowadays it's like or you might be at a commercial company or you 101 00:10:17,580 --> 00:10:22,460 might be at a foundation or you might be in git or you might be over here or it might be that netflix 102 00:10:22,460 --> 00:10:28,060 project or whatever and so there's not like there's a huge amount of things and so maybe foundations can 103 00:10:28,060 --> 00:10:34,620 help out with that they can kind of realize what what that looks like good well speaking of foundations 104 00:10:34,620 --> 00:10:39,420 the uh next piece of news was something that's in a foundation so steel toe 2.2 we give gave that to 105 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:45,900 the dot net foundation last year uh this is that toolkit for for people building dot net core dot net 106 00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:50,700 framework microservices 2.2 just shipped there's a link to the blog uh i think we put in the show 107 00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:55,260 notes and some new stuff in there if you're connecting the mongo db new health indicators for 108 00:10:55,260 --> 00:11:00,380 just kind of instantly instrumenting your applications client-side load balancing so some 109 00:11:00,380 --> 00:11:04,300 neat stuff in there if you're dot net dev you should absolutely be upgrading and i believe there's even 110 00:11:04,300 --> 00:11:09,100 some dot nets and windows stuff hanging out at cf summit this year so even if that wouldn't have 111 00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:13,260 usually been your jam and you wouldn't go to cf summit to learn that stuff you can this year 112 00:11:13,820 --> 00:11:18,060 you can you can jam it in there how how's how's sales of your book going you have you gotten 113 00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:24,700 that uh is it going to be caribbean or east coast of africa island retreat yeah at this point i think 114 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:31,660 it's denny's uh for good for the uh royalties for that eggs over my cam is it the late night menu or 115 00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:37,420 are you going prime time like i mean i think because of that initial up front i think we can prime time 116 00:11:37,420 --> 00:11:44,380 it and everyone gets their own drink yeah and i had a gravy for everyone that's right no matter what 117 00:11:44,380 --> 00:11:51,100 you're eating get some biscuits and gravy right there put it in your iced tea i was excited uh i went to a 118 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:55,420 place that said it was an american restaurant last night and i thought yeah have iced tea 119 00:11:55,420 --> 00:12:02,220 unsweet iced tea no such luck so okay you're this is something that i am struggling with as well 120 00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:08,300 because i'm a big unsweetened iced tea drinker and last time i was in switzerland i was i was actually 121 00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:14,620 worried that they just would not have any concept of iced tea and i went to the convenience store near the 122 00:12:15,340 --> 00:12:22,220 conference center and i found like 12 different varieties of iced tea in this random swiss 123 00:12:22,940 --> 00:12:28,940 convenience store but they were all sweetened varying degrees yes they were they all had some kind of 124 00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:37,660 sucker right like frustrating so and then when i go to australia it's the same thing like they only have 125 00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:46,060 piles of sugar in iced tea and it's like if you guys not realize that you can just sell it without adding 126 00:12:46,060 --> 00:12:52,140 the sugar you can probably get the same price and it's lower cost for you i suffer from this all the 127 00:12:52,140 --> 00:12:57,900 time so i i uh i experience your pain it's terrible okay i wasn't sure if this is like an all over europe 128 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:03,340 thing or just no i was only paying attention in switzerland i think unsweetened iced tea only exists 129 00:13:03,340 --> 00:13:10,140 i think from maybe the mississippi probably to like the pacific and and i think maybe even once you get 130 00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:16,780 up to kansas it disappears and basically it's basically the unsweetened iced tea region of the world 131 00:13:17,980 --> 00:13:24,460 i'm thinking maybe we need an iced tea an unsweetened iced tea foundation to just raise some awareness 132 00:13:25,260 --> 00:13:32,620 and maybe bring some structure to how folks are thinking about and contributing to the unsweetened 133 00:13:32,620 --> 00:13:37,340 iced tea movement i think that's true the way we should sort that out we need to have a do they have 134 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:42,060 birds of a feather community management at cf summit well i would be happy to lead one 135 00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:50,460 yeah it's on track so so then also in news i went on my other podcast uh software defined talk last 136 00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:55,180 week but they talked about this as the interesting open source business model thing it looks 137 00:13:55,180 --> 00:14:00,620 like f5 by the next did i say that right engine engine engine engine x you got it yes so you got 138 00:14:00,620 --> 00:14:06,380 the big load balancer company about the big open source load balancer thing that everyone seems to use 139 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:11,740 yeah yeah i park in the f5 building so i need them to be successful because the parking rates are 140 00:14:11,740 --> 00:14:17,260 reasonable uh yeah as i mean you look at a company that's historically well known for hardware 141 00:14:17,260 --> 00:14:22,060 and software and sort of things on premises taking what is you know at this point the most dominant 142 00:14:22,060 --> 00:14:28,700 web hosting server and kind of routing tier in engine x so it's an interesting acquisition it's probably 143 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:35,020 great exit for for engine x but again you just use i think it continues to make people wonder like 144 00:14:35,020 --> 00:14:39,420 what is that open source like if you're a company built around an open source product especially 145 00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:45,580 something that dominates on the on-prem tier as nobody in the public cloud has any sort of network 146 00:14:45,580 --> 00:14:49,820 component that plugs into something like that so does that get all commoditized i don't need those 147 00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:56,700 sort of components moving forward is my best exit to partner with these massive massive on-prem 148 00:14:56,700 --> 00:15:01,180 software companies is that the future of open source products i guess we'll see for that tier but 149 00:15:01,180 --> 00:15:05,500 great exit for them it just again draws more question as to you know what's the long-term future for a 150 00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:11,020 company built around open source middleware or database or open operating systems yeah yeah it'd 151 00:15:11,020 --> 00:15:15,740 be a good i mean as i always say as always happens when i say things like this i probably won't ever 152 00:15:15,740 --> 00:15:22,140 actually do it but it'd be a good case study of the long like the post-acquisition life of the 153 00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:26,940 business of an open source thing because i mean i realize f5 does you know more than just load balancing 154 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:30,700 but it's pretty like it's they're pretty much their core business it's the thing that they do 155 00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:35,980 the next is the same way so it's pretty easy unless they suddenly add all sorts of other things you can 156 00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:43,260 kind of directly see how uh how it all fits in and how it pieces together but that'll be fun yeah that 157 00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:49,660 company's been around for a long time there's no doubt yeah and then also in the open source world 158 00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:55,740 it looks like uh amazon has its own now did i did i understand this right amazon has its own elastic 159 00:15:55,740 --> 00:16:01,500 search distro i never i always read this stuff too late in the night and so i don't get in detail to 160 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:06,300 figure it out but i think it's yeah their own distribution right for the most part yes i mean 161 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:10,220 this this dusted up i'm doing a meetup tomorrow night on whether the cloud kills open source so this 162 00:16:10,220 --> 00:16:15,420 was good fodder for that but the uh but the gist of it seems like amazon says you know they already 163 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:19,500 run elastic search as a service right they already run that as a managed service they've done that for a 164 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:25,100 while but the stuff from last week was hey you know the way elastic's been building this is they've been 165 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:29,740 commingling some of the open source with the proprietary it just confuses people so we've 166 00:16:29,740 --> 00:16:34,860 created a distribution we amazon that kind of includes everything here's the open source here's 167 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:39,340 things we've added that were kind of proprietary things from elastic that were mixed in we've put all 168 00:16:39,340 --> 00:16:44,700 that in the open source domain uh domain i always this kills me when domains on the call i say 169 00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:50,060 domain instead of domain i apologize at the beginning i'm sorry no it's a big problem uh but 170 00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:54,700 the idea is having that is more or less a distribution you can call it a fork is it a fork or not you know 171 00:16:54,700 --> 00:17:01,740 will those upstream changes that amazon is proposing get accepted by elastic so it's it's murky at this 172 00:17:01,740 --> 00:17:06,460 point on on where that's going to go amazon says look we're doing a service we're trying to mud you know 173 00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:12,940 clear up the muddy waters of the the source code in elastic search elastic says this is kind of you know 174 00:17:12,940 --> 00:17:17,340 tricky behavior by a cloud provider who keeps extinguishing interesting open source products 175 00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:21,980 so it just probably continues to draw to the forefront this question of how am i supposed 176 00:17:21,980 --> 00:17:29,020 to monetize open source middleware and database and things in this cloud era yeah yeah i don't know 177 00:17:29,020 --> 00:17:33,340 what the answer to all that is that that'll be i i mean i guess it's mostly determined by uh 178 00:17:34,140 --> 00:17:41,180 if everyone moves their infrastructure to public cloud then it makes that possible but yeah it's i always 179 00:17:41,180 --> 00:17:46,460 think of it as the uh yeah do y'all ever read that everything store book about amazon there's a good 180 00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:53,020 uh there's a good or so on diapers.com which you can kind of read the wikipedia entry of uh a little 181 00:17:53,020 --> 00:17:57,340 bit of what happened this probably i bet i bet from that era there's a fast company article 182 00:17:58,620 --> 00:18:04,460 it was a fast company was uh wrote up everything i just dug up a good 2012 fast company one 183 00:18:05,820 --> 00:18:11,500 hit the spot it's just what i was looking for yeah y'all remember the industry standard in the early 184 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:18,940 2000s yeah yeah that red herring a lot of those ones used to read red herring anyways uh yeah sorry 185 00:18:18,940 --> 00:18:24,460 i'm getting distracted again yeah we're gonna we're gonna talk about like uh something that's right 186 00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:30,780 uh yeah like like there's there's a there's a good story well one one thing that's great about the 187 00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:37,500 everything store is pretty consistently it describes the core strategy playbook of amazon and what they 188 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:44,300 do and there's one chapter on diapers.com where uh basically uh i i don't know they wanted to acquire 189 00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:51,660 diapers.com or they were they both wanted to sell diapers um and so essentially what what amazon did is 190 00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:57,660 they basically ratcheted up their own diaper selling part to kind of uh compete with with the 191 00:18:57,660 --> 00:19:03,340 thing they wanted to do and so i don't know i mean diapers are not open source as far as i know we 192 00:19:03,340 --> 00:19:09,260 could have saved a lot of money uh maybe we'd have to implement them oh lord help us if diapers become 193 00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:15,980 open source yeah yeah more like open source probably yeah yeah let's keep that close so so there's some 194 00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:21,820 slightly different dynamics but it is it is i guess i guess what i'm trying to get to is in a cloud sort 195 00:19:21,820 --> 00:19:27,900 of business environment this kind of move is probably to be expected which i don't know i guess the main 196 00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:33,900 concern as an end user you would have is does this like stifle innovation from either side right like 197 00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:39,980 does it make people stop producing code and then or not or i don't know it'll be this is like the third 198 00:19:39,980 --> 00:19:46,860 type of thing like this will happen right so maybe i don't know what it looks like yeah no it's good 199 00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:52,220 the confusion doesn't seem to help um i mean at the end of the day i think if you're trying to build 200 00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:57,740 a business no matter what business you're in you should be focusing on you know what are the pain 201 00:19:57,740 --> 00:20:04,060 points of my customers that i can help them with and make sure you're solving that as opposed to 202 00:20:04,860 --> 00:20:12,460 let me build what i think you want which is support for an open source project over here and then you're 203 00:20:12,460 --> 00:20:17,260 going to be kind of caught up in the whiplash between well now there's potentially a fork over 204 00:20:17,260 --> 00:20:23,340 here and it's like well at the end of the day what does your customer actually need you to do um and 205 00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:31,900 and what what's painful for them i don't know it's that's my kind of uh lazy girl you know business 206 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:35,740 school of hard knocks or whatever you want to call it yeah you don't want to have one of those mommy 207 00:20:35,740 --> 00:20:44,780 and daddy are fighting situations well speaking of foundations and open source and bird domain 208 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:51,100 well what's what's up with with cloud foundry summit this year in america what have you been 209 00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:59,340 doing with it other than uh eagerly awaiting for it to happen yeah um um so what was interesting this 210 00:20:59,340 --> 00:21:05,580 year for me so i've i've been one of the co-chairs for the cloud foundry and the enterprise track 211 00:21:06,380 --> 00:21:16,940 for the last couple of um see if summits both both the north america and and europe and this year they 212 00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:22,460 they changed some things there was always i think a bit of a challenge where the call for papers 213 00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:27,740 wasn't or call for proposals whatever i never want to know what the p is supposed to stand for 214 00:21:27,740 --> 00:21:36,620 um the the call for proposals was around use cases and then those would funnel into like ones that my 215 00:21:36,620 --> 00:21:41,740 co-chair and i would be reviewing and definitely we would find a lot of great cloud foundry and the 216 00:21:41,740 --> 00:21:45,340 enterprise stories in there but there'd be a lot of other really good stuff too and we would be kind of 217 00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:53,020 working to get those into into the review cycles for other tracks so what they did this time is they 218 00:21:53,020 --> 00:22:01,660 actually changed what the the tracks were and what was interesting is there's really actually several 219 00:22:01,660 --> 00:22:07,500 different places where i think the types of stories from end users like i i'm just really interested 220 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:13,340 always in hearing from you know it's it's important to get the latest updates from contributors and folks 221 00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:19,020 who are really um deep in the technology but to me it's just kind of my background i'm always 222 00:22:19,020 --> 00:22:24,220 interested in hearing from people who are actually kicking the tires and using the thing so this year 223 00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:30,460 there's a user stories track so that was one that i co-chaired with um burned from from sap 224 00:22:31,820 --> 00:22:36,620 but then there was also cloud foundry for business cloud foundry for developers cloud foundry for 225 00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:45,660 operators um and a cloud foundry 101 track and really all of those are going to have end user stories 226 00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:52,140 woven into them um and but with kind of whatever the flavor of that track is about so there's some 227 00:22:52,140 --> 00:22:57,020 really great ones you know obviously cloud foundry for business is sort of another really natural 228 00:22:57,660 --> 00:23:04,540 spot for some of these end user stories to come up so dick sporting goods has um as a really interesting 229 00:23:04,540 --> 00:23:13,580 looking talk in there about this kind of mad dash to uh the holiday selling season and so i think this is 230 00:23:13,580 --> 00:23:18,940 you know a good good track to look at if you're trying to connect those dots between 231 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:26,620 the technology and the effort to how this is actually going to help me in my business um so i'm looking 232 00:23:26,620 --> 00:23:32,700 forward to that one and a couple other talks in the the cloud foundry for business track and then there's some 233 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:37,500 some interesting stuff in you know cloud foundry for operators where you know you've got folks like 234 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:44,620 t-mobile and comcast who are really testing um and pushing the the limits of well not even limits but 235 00:23:44,620 --> 00:23:50,220 they're just they're they're breaking through new new barriers of scale right and so they're they're able 236 00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:56,700 to share out some of their experiences of operating at scale that most of their folks aren't yet at and so 237 00:23:56,700 --> 00:24:04,780 um i think that's going to be really interesting for those operators of the world who are uh looking 238 00:24:04,780 --> 00:24:09,580 and dealing with those types of problems like what happens when we suddenly have you know two thousand 239 00:24:09,580 --> 00:24:15,500 developers on the platform and we've got thirty thousand um app instances and containers running on the 240 00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:23,580 platform what kind of challenges can i expect and what are some insights that i can learn so i think what's and 241 00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:27,980 then the the user stories is actually really only a it's almost like a half track it's just one day 242 00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:36,380 there we've got kind of just a a mix of different stories like we've got um you know a talk from nasdaq 243 00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:43,340 about dot net and there's um you know there is the a talk from comcast about running at you know massive 244 00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:51,340 scale uh there's there's a deep dive from state farm um that's called cracks in the foundation so i know 245 00:24:51,340 --> 00:24:56,300 just given our talk so far i'm waiting for the next time you're going to say speaking of 246 00:24:56,300 --> 00:25:03,260 foundations um and so really their their experience and and sort of some of their lessons learned so 247 00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:12,060 yeah i think that's you know i like that there's now more tracks and just more that where where these 248 00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:16,940 kind of user stories can come out i mean it's always been an option for folks to submit to whatever 249 00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:23,900 track but i think it makes a difference when those track titles are something that an end user feels 250 00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:31,500 like hey this is something i've got some wisdom to share um on that topic whereas you know when it's 251 00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:38,060 kind of core updates you know that's those are going to be a lot of the the core committers which you 252 00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:43,660 know most of the end users are are not quite there yet um you know there's a lot of end users who are 253 00:25:44,220 --> 00:25:48,860 members of the foundation and are starting to contribute back but you know it's it's still 254 00:25:48,860 --> 00:25:54,460 kind of early days for that yeah so do you like this uh switch i remember from a couple years back there 255 00:25:54,460 --> 00:25:59,500 was like a track for node.js it'd be a track as you said for like core updates so this kind of switched 256 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:03,660 almost persona based and scenario based do you like that do you find that more welcoming or you think 257 00:26:03,660 --> 00:26:10,380 that's easier for a first timer who do you think that caters to the most i'm i'm optimistic about 258 00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:15,820 it i mean honestly like until you're really there i think you're not going to fully know like how it 259 00:26:15,820 --> 00:26:22,140 works out but i think it opened up more we were kind of running into where we didn't have enough 260 00:26:22,140 --> 00:26:26,380 space in the cloud foundry for the enterprise track the last couple times to actually accept 261 00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:35,420 all the end user talks and to me that felt you know like um uh it's a missed opportunity and so i 262 00:26:37,020 --> 00:26:41,420 i like that this is now providing kind of more places that i think are going to make it attractive 263 00:26:41,420 --> 00:26:50,300 for actual end users to to submit and get talks accepted i mean you've mentioned a couple times that 264 00:26:50,300 --> 00:26:54,300 i don't know almost unusual amount of end user talks so if we compare this i mean this is cloud 265 00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:59,660 foundry is a mature product project right so i mean compare that to you know we have a large presence 266 00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:04,140 at more of the up-and-coming shows as well the cube cons and things like that where it's mostly tech 267 00:27:04,140 --> 00:27:08,940 talks and a couple of customers presenting and that's natural it's new tech do you think this is unusual 268 00:27:08,940 --> 00:27:14,220 you attend a good number of shows is the amount of end users sort of presenting their stories and not 269 00:27:14,220 --> 00:27:18,540 just like here's how we tinkered like here's how we're running stuff at scale that strikes me as 270 00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:21,260 that's not something i see that often is that somewhat unusual here 271 00:27:22,860 --> 00:27:31,180 i mean i'm not there's so many tech shows these days like i can't claim to have a perfect view of 272 00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:37,020 the landscape i mean i do have perfect vision but it's not it's not for things like this um yeah we're 273 00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:48,060 just just gonna recycle that a little bit um but i i really like that about um you know the the cloud 274 00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:52,780 foundry summits and yeah i do sometimes get disappointed when going to other shows and there's 275 00:27:52,780 --> 00:27:59,660 or i'll look for the the end user talks and find that it's not really about any kind of like an 276 00:27:59,660 --> 00:28:07,260 infrastructure software it's something you know more of a end user application um or uh so for from an 277 00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:13,980 infrastructure perspective it's it's really cool to to see you know real end user kind of war stories 278 00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:21,500 um you know or where you kind of end up with like a a product manager is sort of doing like 90 of the 279 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:27,660 talk and then they did manage to get an end user but that person is just talking for like five minutes um 280 00:28:28,780 --> 00:28:34,300 those sometimes also are a little bit disappointing so uh here it's sometimes it is paired with 281 00:28:35,260 --> 00:28:40,940 like the someone from you know say stark and wayne or pivotal but it's usually like it's the platform 282 00:28:40,940 --> 00:28:46,940 architect for pivotal who's really there on the ground who's really familiar with what's happening 283 00:28:48,140 --> 00:28:54,140 they're not um they're not a product person and you know stark and wayne is one of the um 284 00:28:54,780 --> 00:29:00,460 you know systems integrator uh consultants in the cloud foundry ecosystem and so they've got a lot of 285 00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:05,020 you know good hands-on experience where when they're up there sharing the stage with one of 286 00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:09,180 these end users it's it's usually they've got a lot of insight into what's actually happening at 287 00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:15,100 that particular implementation yeah the last part something else you mentioned earlier when you 288 00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:21,340 were describing the conference this year was the the kind of 101 starter sort of track like 289 00:29:21,340 --> 00:29:25,580 introduction if you look through that track it is like what the heck is cloud foundry i've got one 290 00:29:25,580 --> 00:29:30,620 a talk on just the sort of things you can run there and again for a mature technology you might argue 291 00:29:30,620 --> 00:29:34,940 gosh don't you know already but i think it's kind of neat we're doing that again do you find that 292 00:29:34,940 --> 00:29:38,700 useful do you think that takes away that hey instead of a 101 track we should have more 293 00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:44,700 deep dive stuff or do you think it fills a great niche in a show like this i think it's great 294 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:53,580 because i think the 101 experience isn't static um and so there's and this is something that you 295 00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:58,380 know even if you're internally operating the software really any you know anyone who's built 296 00:29:58,380 --> 00:30:05,180 a platform on whatever you built it with it's not static and so whatever that that 101 experience 297 00:30:05,180 --> 00:30:09,900 whether it's the onboarding experience it's the you know installation experience it's thinking through 298 00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:17,340 like how are you going to do your first upgrade um all those things are potentially evolving all the 299 00:30:17,340 --> 00:30:24,860 time with whether it's you know new parts of software that are actually part of cloud foundry itself 300 00:30:24,860 --> 00:30:31,180 you know open source cloud foundry or it's um you know a new practice a new methodology that's kind of 301 00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:36,140 emerged from more and more experience from folks who are doing it all the time 302 00:30:37,340 --> 00:30:45,420 and so you kind of you want to continue to refresh what the 101 story is um and and not let that get 303 00:30:45,420 --> 00:30:52,220 too stale so i think it's great and i and i like the the kind of persona identification so you know folks 304 00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:57,180 know hey if i'm going to this conference i i know which talks are for me i think it helps 305 00:30:58,540 --> 00:31:05,420 yeah i guess i guess it sort of raises uh the the technical and uh end user sessions so to speak 306 00:31:05,420 --> 00:31:09,020 i mean that raises a little bit of what we were talking about with foundations earlier is 307 00:31:09,580 --> 00:31:16,700 uh if you don't have like a big commercial entity behind whatever the ecosystem to use an old term you have is then 308 00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:21,820 there needs to be someone making sure the community talks with each other regularly and they know how 309 00:31:21,820 --> 00:31:27,180 to work with each other and what all the kind of uh social graces or norms are and that that seems to 310 00:31:27,180 --> 00:31:33,900 like that's where you get those fun phrases like birds of a feather which is an odd phrase but i i guess i 311 00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:38,460 mean that is like a nice opportunity to have at these uh there's basically three of these a year 312 00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:45,980 right in the us and europe and asia did i make up an asian one i'm not i don't double check i i haven't 313 00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:51,100 been involved with they should have one in asia that would be yeah but uh i think they did do one in 314 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:57,580 in china but i'm not sure if they did it last year okay that's probably why i remember i'm not just 315 00:31:57,580 --> 00:32:03,580 totally making stuff up only halfway but yeah i mean that that seems like a a good opportunity to 316 00:32:03,580 --> 00:32:09,500 have people come together and and usually usually you have some sort of uh session during a you know 317 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:13,740 a keynote or whatever where the state of the community has gone over which is fun and then 318 00:32:13,740 --> 00:32:18,620 and then i guess they'll be releasing the uh the cloud foundry foundation survey or a new one that's 319 00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:24,300 always fun to comb through see lots of new bar charts and and how people are using things so are 320 00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:29,900 there are there any uh like like of of the sessions you've gone over like what are what are the the 321 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:33,820 must-see ones that you're going to go to and and i ask that kind of enviously because i think 322 00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:38,940 they're basically they record the sessions and then i think maybe a month later the videos come out 323 00:32:38,940 --> 00:32:44,300 and every now and then i come across like your notes on stuff and and pictures so like you'll you'll get 324 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:50,620 a you'll you'll have the content fresh before the rest of us do to yeah i i always have fun kind 325 00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:58,460 of live tweeting and then i try to write at least one takeaway you know within say a week 326 00:32:59,340 --> 00:33:06,860 um i just find if you don't you know like it has to be forged in the fires of the that moment um 327 00:33:06,860 --> 00:33:10,460 otherwise you know those ideas start to kind of slip away from you but i i just sort of look 328 00:33:11,180 --> 00:33:20,460 for patterns across what users are doing i mean i still have some from the the last um summit in 329 00:33:20,460 --> 00:33:24,460 switzerland that are kind of kicking around i'm just sort of looking around for a little more evidence 330 00:33:25,180 --> 00:33:32,140 uh before i think i really sit down for those but um so let's see just looking through 331 00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:39,340 the some of the talks that i've got in that i've kind of picked out i i definitely want to hear kind 332 00:33:39,340 --> 00:33:47,740 of the the nasdaq story since um i think you know dot net and windows uh workloads are super important if 333 00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:52,300 you look at any major enterprise it's you know they're they're gonna have a mixed environment 334 00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:58,540 and so i think making sure that there's enough visibility on and and shared experiences and lessons 335 00:33:58,540 --> 00:34:05,420 learned are critical really for for enterprises to be successful with anything so looking forward to 336 00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:12,460 that one um i am looking forward to that that state farm deep dive it's uh it's going to be a long one 337 00:34:12,460 --> 00:34:20,380 but um that's that's definitely on my radar there's two that are kind of about scale there's um there's 338 00:34:20,380 --> 00:34:27,260 one from comcast and there's one from t-mobile those are definitely on my my radar um 339 00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:35,180 there's one from t-mobile also on chaos engineering which is one of those areas that i'm i'm kind of 340 00:34:36,060 --> 00:34:45,660 it's come up now a couple times of uh folks using cloud foundry and um using chaos engineering and so 341 00:34:45,660 --> 00:34:50,540 i'm trying to learn a little bit more about both the practice of chaos engineering as well as 342 00:34:50,540 --> 00:34:58,220 how people are using it within a cloud foundry context because you know um you've got chaos 343 00:34:58,220 --> 00:35:04,540 engineering can apply you know fully up and down the stack you you can apply it at your very front 344 00:35:04,540 --> 00:35:09,900 end layers all the way down to hardware um and then you know when we come back to that idea of the 345 00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:15,260 personas right there's one thing in a cloud foundry environment is you you tend to have this kind of 346 00:35:15,260 --> 00:35:20,780 separation of concerns if you will between what the operators are responsible for and then what the 347 00:35:20,780 --> 00:35:27,340 developers are responsible for um and one of the nice things about it is you get um like a lot of 348 00:35:27,340 --> 00:35:32,620 empowering for developers without really burning them with responsibility and i think that that's 349 00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:39,580 where especially when you're talking about the application runtime um you you get a lot of that uh 350 00:35:40,780 --> 00:35:46,780 kind of definition around who's responsible for what but really then what what do they have to do to 351 00:35:46,780 --> 00:35:52,940 maintain that responsibility so i'm curious how chaos engineering fits into that like is that something 352 00:35:52,940 --> 00:35:58,060 that the operators are running is it something that developers should be practicing themselves is it 353 00:35:58,060 --> 00:36:03,180 something that there's another group that should be involved in so i kind of want to hear more 354 00:36:03,180 --> 00:36:10,300 experiences around that um there's another talk from the air force uh so uh brian kroger who i know has 355 00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:16,780 been a guest on on your show and raytheon are co-presenting on um testing right and just sort of the 356 00:36:16,780 --> 00:36:22,540 the breadth of testing and i'm you know interested in that so i'd like to see what what folks are saying 357 00:36:22,540 --> 00:36:26,940 about how pervasive they're getting with their testing since that seems to be one of the the 358 00:36:26,940 --> 00:36:33,660 major secrets to success if you will there's a couple of talks around um functions of a service and 359 00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:39,820 serverless so there's there's one from comcast and then you know our colleagues uh brian and brian are giving 360 00:36:39,820 --> 00:36:45,500 another one um sort of looking at knative and so that's probably another area i want to 361 00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:52,220 sort of see what what folks are doing uh lately and and how that's starting to manifest on the platform 362 00:36:52,220 --> 00:36:59,420 so basically you're going to go to every single talk that's well no i mean like i can't so i need 363 00:36:59,420 --> 00:37:04,940 to let other people know about these so that they can go and live tweet them too oh they can take notes 364 00:37:04,940 --> 00:37:08,620 yeah that makes that oh that wasn't what this exercise was 365 00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:19,180 exactly that's what i was trying to get you to do for me yeah um get the notes exactly i know there's 366 00:37:19,180 --> 00:37:26,700 there's there's a lot no this is actually like i've i've way filtered down the the number of talks um 367 00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:32,540 from what from what's there it's just these are the the kinds of themes and stuff i'm just sort of 368 00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:38,860 flipping through what my my schedule looks like right now um oh oh here's another one the um 369 00:37:38,860 --> 00:37:49,660 the team from west corp has one about migrating 170 applications in 18 months and i've heard a little 370 00:37:49,660 --> 00:37:56,860 bit about you know the kind of extensive modernization re-platforming work that they're doing there and 371 00:37:56,860 --> 00:38:04,380 i mean i think that you know digging into the whole modern i mean that new is awesome and great but 372 00:38:04,380 --> 00:38:11,260 really getting your house in order and dealing with modernizing or at least re-platforming legacy 373 00:38:11,260 --> 00:38:21,020 workload is where the major value comes from and so anything that kind of shares lessons learned and 374 00:38:21,020 --> 00:38:28,460 wisdom around how do you do that and how do you do it at scale um is i think going to be really valuable 375 00:38:28,460 --> 00:38:34,540 so i'm really excited about that one too yeah i mean that that overview like uh encyclopedic 376 00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:38,460 joking aside it's a good example of i'll have to remember this next time because i'm always trying 377 00:38:38,460 --> 00:38:42,540 to explain like you know in the in the pivotal world there's like you know all our great software 378 00:38:42,540 --> 00:38:47,980 and process and methodology and then on top is this like culture and community thing which of 379 00:38:47,980 --> 00:38:53,820 course is not in the in the cloud foundry world is not only pivotal but it's you know we're part of it 380 00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:58,860 but as you were just going over there's this community of uh i think they used to say practice 381 00:38:58,860 --> 00:39:04,220 like people sharing how they've done things and going over like best practices and i guess worst 382 00:39:04,220 --> 00:39:10,700 practices not only the technology level but also uh like you're saying like if we're going to move 170 383 00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:15,020 applications there's definitely technical things to that but there's a bunch of other things we need to 384 00:39:15,020 --> 00:39:20,460 worry about or how do we how do we uh you know between raytheon and the u.s air force like how do we 385 00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:27,100 make testing fine because yeah there's a lot of like technical part to testing which everyone's 386 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:33,020 grateful for but there's also just like having the organization trust that those tests are good 387 00:39:33,020 --> 00:39:38,060 and truthful that you have to sort out usually so yeah i mean just i mean i think you provided a good 388 00:39:38,060 --> 00:39:44,540 example of like this is this is the community of people that after i don't know five or so years of 389 00:39:44,540 --> 00:39:50,060 cloud nativey kind of stuff that like has emerged and and because you have stuff like the the cf summit 390 00:39:50,060 --> 00:39:56,460 and other things like uh you know it exists somewhere you don't just have to find it in the backs of 391 00:39:56,460 --> 00:40:02,140 magazines or whatever like speaking of old magazines do you ever do you ever read the spencer f cat rumor 392 00:40:02,140 --> 00:40:09,100 column any week i wish that was around still but uh anyhow that's a good overview i'm looking forward 393 00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:16,060 to the notes yes yeah it was a nice part two in your summary domain it was a nice highlight of 394 00:40:16,060 --> 00:40:19,980 there's a lot of hey what are we doing now but there's a lot of futurey stuff as you mentioned right 395 00:40:19,980 --> 00:40:25,020 fads service meshes a lot of kubernetes a lot of so this is not just a backwards looking like 396 00:40:25,020 --> 00:40:29,260 here's what we set up and how we run it it's a lot of still what we're going to be doing next which i 397 00:40:29,260 --> 00:40:33,500 think is cool as we look at still focusing on outcomes as you mentioned over and over again 398 00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:38,140 right still the software it's the outcomes the things that matter but it's fun to also explore 399 00:40:38,140 --> 00:40:42,140 the tech that makes it possible absolutely 400 00:40:44,620 --> 00:40:50,060 all right well thanks for joining us for this uh whirlwind tour of cf summit in philadelphia 401 00:40:50,060 --> 00:40:54,860 in what just a couple of weeks first week of april i think yeah i uh i hope folks 402 00:40:54,860 --> 00:41:03,020 can make it out i i think it's a great conference and um i'm always busy like a bee it's a whole 403 00:41:03,020 --> 00:41:09,980 week there so um lots to do there's a user day um you know before the conference really kicks off 404 00:41:09,980 --> 00:41:17,260 there's a great unconference um that happens kind of the night before so some additional activities 405 00:41:17,260 --> 00:41:25,420 around the the main event as i recall there's lots of cobblestone in philadelphia which is a 406 00:41:25,420 --> 00:41:31,180 strange experience if you're not used to cobblestone across it all sorts of stuff like that 407 00:41:31,740 --> 00:41:36,700 it's the area i grew up in so i need someone to join me on monday as we go find a good cheesesteak 408 00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:41,260 because i am that's happening monday afternoon so let me know if you'd like to join me on the hunt 409 00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:46,620 well there's two things i wanted to close on but you you've raised up one of them now now if people 410 00:41:46,620 --> 00:41:52,460 were going to do one philadelphia thing richard what should they do like let's say say they're at cf 411 00:41:52,460 --> 00:41:58,060 summit they've got 90 minutes to 120 minutes right like what are they gonna what are they gonna go do 412 00:41:58,060 --> 00:42:02,860 you go see the bell get a cheesesteak what's what's what's your your number one i mean i was gonna 413 00:42:02,860 --> 00:42:07,100 say throw snowballs at santa but that was a dark day for us in philadelphia so you shouldn't do that 414 00:42:07,100 --> 00:42:13,900 uh you probably do the independence hall liberty bell get a cheesesteak oh yeah yeah yeah yeah 415 00:42:16,940 --> 00:42:21,740 there's like that glass cabinet the liberty bells in if i remember and then like a few ways over is 416 00:42:21,740 --> 00:42:26,380 the famous cheesesteak place a few blocks over or something like that and baseball hasn't started 417 00:42:26,380 --> 00:42:30,300 yet so or well i don't think they'll be home that week so unfortunately you can't catch a phillies game 418 00:42:30,300 --> 00:42:35,580 and and yell obscenities of players next time what is it the phillies monster what's their 419 00:42:35,580 --> 00:42:41,020 they're they're they're uh they're like a big baseball or something no the philly fanatic and 420 00:42:41,020 --> 00:42:46,220 then uh they have some some creature from everyone's nightmares who does hockey gritty 421 00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:54,060 so oh yeah great mascots yeah he's got that giant head oh gosh yeah he's yeah and a square jaw and 422 00:42:54,060 --> 00:42:58,540 everything yeah yeah if you spend the night on mushrooms or something gritty is going to show up so 423 00:43:01,100 --> 00:43:07,580 you can find those around the liberty bell and then and then and then so so dormain what what is your 424 00:43:07,580 --> 00:43:11,740 tip like what what are the best evening things how should people plan out should they just go to a 425 00:43:11,740 --> 00:43:16,220 bunch of evening parties only get a cheesesteak like how should they how should they deal with their 426 00:43:16,220 --> 00:43:25,500 evening time oh wow um yeah i uh i never really think about this too much because i'm always making 427 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:33,820 sure that there's at least one karaoke outing um well that's your answer right there yeah so i'm i'm 428 00:43:33,820 --> 00:43:39,420 we're trying to figure out the karaoke situation and fill it like every city is kind of different 429 00:43:40,220 --> 00:43:47,500 in their their karaoke scene so but you know some some folks over at comcast are already 430 00:43:48,460 --> 00:43:54,700 working on doing the research so like it's really a team effort at this point and it's it's going to 431 00:43:54,700 --> 00:43:59,500 be fun hopefully they're they're emailing around a lot of powerpoint decks with weighted excel 432 00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:06,140 spreadsheets so having to come up with that executive slide of karaoke places i guess i guess they would 433 00:44:06,140 --> 00:44:12,700 know yeah yeah you know you're giving me some great ideas Coté of how to really um 434 00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:18,380 in power through this yeah kind of like make the the process a little bit more rigid 435 00:44:19,980 --> 00:44:23,020 that's right i thought you said you could only sing songs from the city you're in so it's got 436 00:44:23,020 --> 00:44:27,900 to be nothing but songs from people who grew up in philly uh-huh or songs about bells 437 00:44:28,940 --> 00:44:33,180 that's about it's you got boys to men i don't know what else you're doing boys to man is from 438 00:44:33,180 --> 00:44:40,300 philadelphia wow okay that's that's basically the fun fact for me in this whole episode was 439 00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:48,300 is it bobby brown was in boys to men right or am i mixing up my boy no that's uh no that's not him 440 00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:56,300 no no it's not poison um no no he's not i think what he was in that would be a great alternate 441 00:44:56,300 --> 00:45:01,100 universe maybe that's what happened in the watchman alternate universe is is uh 442 00:45:01,100 --> 00:45:03,500 brown wasn't poison no that's not right 443 00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:12,140 yeah well well on that note uh as always this has been Pivotal Conversations you can find 444 00:45:12,140 --> 00:45:18,060 domain's lovely conversation i mean uh not conversation it is a conversation now where where would people go 445 00:45:18,060 --> 00:45:25,180 for your podcast would they press maybe a double arrow button um i mean you have a better way of 446 00:45:25,180 --> 00:45:30,220 explaining how to find our podcasts usually because it's the same place where you find this podcast so 447 00:45:30,220 --> 00:45:38,140 if you found this one the good news is you've also found the podcast i do with jeff that's right you 448 00:45:38,140 --> 00:45:44,460 just need to subscribe so that you get both weeks um yeah and there's no way i think now if you leave 449 00:45:44,460 --> 00:45:53,580 a review to like you know uh qualify it as like well i like it i like hearing Coté talk about meat and 450 00:45:53,580 --> 00:46:02,060 delicious things with richard but like dormain and her random you know analogies with jeff 451 00:46:02,060 --> 00:46:08,700 i don't know you know like you gotta just bite the bullet leave a review for both that's right you can't 452 00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:14,060 you can't you can't only like mindy or only like guy ross no you gotta like them together and you 453 00:46:14,060 --> 00:46:20,940 know even though like reggie isn't a person you just have to assume that reggie is getting 454 00:46:20,940 --> 00:46:26,620 credit with whatever review you leave for for wow in the world absolutely well well that's another 455 00:46:26,620 --> 00:46:30,860 exciting bunker balls episode i think we've had hopefully it's been a little help you've 456 00:46:30,860 --> 00:46:37,020 learned something and uh you know you can find this podcast and domains all of the great podcasts over 457 00:46:37,020 --> 00:46:42,220 at soundcloud.com Pivotal Conversations with no space you should try to put a space in to see what 458 00:46:42,220 --> 00:46:47,340 happens uh that would be fun send us the results and uh hopefully you'll show you'll go to a cf 459 00:46:47,340 --> 00:46:53,500 summit you can do some karaoke and uh you know see some bells cheesesteaks we'll see everyone next time bye