1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,080 Well, there's a new version of the Tanzu application service coming out, version 4.0. 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:08,760 And as always, when there's something Tanzu application service to talk about, we have 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:13,920 none other than Nick Taz to come tell us what's going on there. 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:19,400 Tell us the interesting new features, what's been happening since last time, the hopes 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,620 and dreams of the Tanzu application service community. 6 00:00:23,220 --> 00:00:24,080 So welcome back, Nick. 7 00:00:24,860 --> 00:00:25,980 Well, thank you. 8 00:00:26,060 --> 00:00:27,020 And thanks for having me back. 9 00:00:27,140 --> 00:00:31,320 And I apparently need to change my name or get a new license plate or something along 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,940 those lines for Nick Taz. 11 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:33,780 Yeah. 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:40,160 But yeah, so the 4.0 release should be coming out here later this month. 13 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,360 And there's a lot of things to cover. 14 00:00:42,780 --> 00:00:48,540 And just to kind of give everyone a recap, it's going to be kind of the first iteration 15 00:00:48,540 --> 00:00:53,160 or new version of our long-term support track program. 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,340 So a lot of our customers stay on the long-term support release cycle. 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:04,360 And, you know, a lot of them will be jump upgrading, so we say, to 4.0. 18 00:01:04,620 --> 00:01:10,580 So I think a lot of folks will be very excited about this release and all the features really 19 00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:12,720 to kind of unpack here. 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,340 Yeah, I was just right before this, I was recording another interview with Carrie Schaefer 21 00:01:18,340 --> 00:01:19,440 from One Magnify. 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,840 They're a big Taz user, our Tanzu application service user. 23 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:31,040 And yeah, it was, I was just hearing how, you know, the, as she was saying, the opinionated 24 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,400 platform of Taz, the developers love it. 25 00:01:33,540 --> 00:01:34,960 It was, it works out well for them. 26 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:43,040 And, uh, we spent a long time, uh, also talking about, uh, how developer happiness is part of 27 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:48,060 your business case, which I, I didn't actually get down to asking her which Excel macro she 28 00:01:48,060 --> 00:01:52,740 uses, uh, for developer happiness, but, but, you know, being less snarky, it definitely, 29 00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:56,880 uh, was part of, of, uh, platform interest out there. 30 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,900 So, so, so let, let's go through it. 31 00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:04,880 Like, what are the, what are, what are like, let's say like the top three and maybe we'll 32 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,980 go to more, but like, what are the top three awesomeness features? 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,140 You could even say Nicktastic features that we have there. 34 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,240 Man, I gotta, I gotta get some stickers now or something. 35 00:02:16,540 --> 00:02:21,280 Um, but yeah, the, probably the, uh, to go along the lines of developer happiness and 36 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:26,040 kind of the developer experience, uh, kind of the, the biggest new feature, uh, that we're 37 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:33,020 looking at here is the, uh, the introduction of Backstage into TAS, uh, and it's going to 38 00:02:33,020 --> 00:02:38,520 be, uh, I think branded the Tanzu application service portal or TAS portal for short. 39 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,860 Uh, but essentially, uh, we're bringing some of the goodness that we saw and see with Tanzu 40 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:46,480 application platform into TAS. 41 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,120 Um, so, you know, uh, if you're not familiar with Backstage, it's kind of like this open source 42 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:56,020 framework or like kind of big open source project, um, that, you know, it has, 43 00:02:56,020 --> 00:03:00,280 has many features in it, but one of the biggest features is kind of like this, I guess you 44 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,640 call it like a software catalog or organizational catalog, um, to help organizations kind of 45 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:09,040 keep track of all the different like services within an organization. 46 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,840 So you can, you know, deploy an application, register it within this catalog. 47 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,800 And then like, you know, your other development teams can say, Hey, let's, what's in the catalog. 48 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,340 Oh, it's like, you know, identity service X, Y, Z. 49 00:03:19,340 --> 00:03:20,500 Oh, I need that. 50 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:26,520 I can, you know, I can go inspect that identity service and, you know, see, see the, you know, 51 00:03:26,620 --> 00:03:31,380 API structure and maybe how I can integrate that into my application without, you know, 52 00:03:31,540 --> 00:03:32,180 rewriting that. 53 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:38,100 So it allows for, uh, essentially reuse of, uh, software components and services and kind 54 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:43,700 of helps, uh, you know, better promote, um, you know, kind of cross-functional development 55 00:03:43,700 --> 00:03:44,840 within an organization. 56 00:03:45,220 --> 00:03:49,460 And some of these organizations that, you know, use our, our products are very big. 57 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:55,380 So anything we can do to help, you know, help kind of coalesce and help things, uh, you 58 00:03:55,380 --> 00:03:59,060 know, ease development in any way, shape or form is, is a really big win. 59 00:03:59,580 --> 00:04:05,900 Yeah, that, that'll be, that's, that's going to be exciting because I feel like, uh, like 60 00:04:05,900 --> 00:04:11,540 Taz has had maybe like 30 to 40% of that, right? 61 00:04:11,540 --> 00:04:15,820 Like you, you have the catalog of like, you know, tiles and services and stuff that you can 62 00:04:15,820 --> 00:04:16,040 use. 63 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:22,060 But then the thing I'm always intrigued with, with the, uh, the backstage way of life, so 64 00:04:22,060 --> 00:04:28,820 to speak, is that each of the applications or services, each of the developer teams, hopefully 65 00:04:28,820 --> 00:04:29,840 there's a developer team. 66 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:33,800 If you have some software you depend on in your organization, but each of the developer 67 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:39,320 teams also has their own, like, I don't even know the backstage terminology, their own page 68 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,500 that, that you can go to, right. 69 00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:48,380 And the whole, like the whole, like maybe not the whole, but a lot of what backstage is 70 00:04:48,380 --> 00:04:53,840 about is making sure all those different teams can easily find each other and start to work 71 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:58,040 with each other and understand the projects that that's there, which kind of to your point, 72 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:03,940 like I always imagine, you know, if you have an organization with like 20, 25,000 developers, 73 00:05:03,940 --> 00:05:07,740 it's not like it's easy to find things. 74 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:08,680 Right. 75 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,740 So it's good to have that, that built into there. 76 00:05:13,020 --> 00:05:13,200 Yeah. 77 00:05:13,340 --> 00:05:13,620 Yeah. 78 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:19,020 And, uh, backstage put out a blog recently that had some metrics around what they saw when 79 00:05:19,020 --> 00:05:23,180 they started using backstage on a more regular basis across their teams. 80 00:05:23,340 --> 00:05:28,520 Um, I'll just read you some of the stats here that are picked out two dot three X more active 81 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:28,980 in GitHub. 82 00:05:28,980 --> 00:05:30,020 This is a developer. 83 00:05:30,020 --> 00:05:37,160 So more active in GitHub as a result of being able to understand the, uh, the systems around 84 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,240 them and the, the, the, um, information being generated by the different development teams 85 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:43,420 that are working around them. 86 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:49,300 Um, create two times more code changes in 17% less cycle time. 87 00:05:49,300 --> 00:05:54,060 So enables them to speed up and get more, uh, get more code changes done as well. 88 00:05:54,140 --> 00:05:57,140 So there's tons and tons of really good stuff in backstage. 89 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:58,300 It sounds really exciting. 90 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,160 I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like in the task platform. 91 00:06:02,260 --> 00:06:03,080 Have you seen it, Nick? 92 00:06:03,540 --> 00:06:03,960 Uh, yeah. 93 00:06:03,980 --> 00:06:08,940 So I've seen a little, little, little bit of it so far and, uh, hopefully later I'll be 94 00:06:08,940 --> 00:06:11,260 releasing, uh, maybe a demo video on it. 95 00:06:11,260 --> 00:06:13,100 Uh, but yeah, so I've seen it. 96 00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:18,140 It looks, uh, it looks a lot, uh, like what we see in Tainsm application platform, but you 97 00:06:18,140 --> 00:06:24,220 know, it's, uh, kind of been, uh, I guess molded per se to, to work within Tainsm application 98 00:06:24,220 --> 00:06:24,700 service. 99 00:06:24,860 --> 00:06:29,900 And there's also, um, some integrations too, to kind of like, if you're using the backstage 100 00:06:29,900 --> 00:06:34,500 component tree and you want to go like into apps manager, which is the traditional, uh, 101 00:06:34,540 --> 00:06:38,260 you know, portal for, for tasks, you can kind of go in between as well. 102 00:06:38,260 --> 00:06:43,980 So, um, yeah, it looks, uh, looks a lot and, you know, it feels a lot like the, the, the 103 00:06:43,980 --> 00:06:45,860 tap, uh, backstage experience. 104 00:06:46,420 --> 00:06:52,780 Uh, and, um, you know, we also, um, you, the applications accelerators have been, have 105 00:06:52,780 --> 00:06:54,340 been loaded as well within that. 106 00:06:54,340 --> 00:06:59,300 So you can start to get some of that, um, kind of golden templated or, you know, best 107 00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:03,100 practice, uh, templates for your organization in there as well. 108 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:08,580 Um, to really kind of streamline and maybe even, you know, we see that, you know, you're, 109 00:07:08,580 --> 00:07:11,180 I, I, I caught onto like two X improvement. 110 00:07:11,180 --> 00:07:15,900 So maybe, you know, who knows what the, the, if we get studies about what the applications 111 00:07:15,900 --> 00:07:22,340 accelerators do for, you know, uh, bootstrapping new development or, you know, you know, onboarding 112 00:07:22,340 --> 00:07:26,320 new developers within an organization, maybe, maybe in a year or two, we'll have some kind 113 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:31,600 of data around that, but, um, yeah, I think it's, it's, it's going to speak a lot to really 114 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:37,840 just, you know, helping people on board and, you know, kind of making the, um, I guess the 115 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:43,500 best path, the least path of resistance within an organization and, you know, he just, people 116 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:45,040 will just naturally do that. 117 00:07:45,220 --> 00:07:48,760 If it's the, you know, if it's the easiest way to do it and it's also the right way, you'll, 118 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,120 you'll probably have a lot of adoption. 119 00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:55,440 And, uh, you know, I think that's, I think that's a really key, uh, component to kind 120 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:56,540 of key up on as well. 121 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:57,400 Yeah. 122 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,800 Cause the term golden path comes up a lot, doesn't it? 123 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,220 When you're talking about, uh, backstage, but it, it also always came up a lot when you're 124 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:10,460 talking about TAS, TAS has always had an opinion about the golden path to get to production. 125 00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:15,880 This seems like a, an extension of that extending it beyond the boundaries of TAS. 126 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,380 Is it still got that openness where you can include applications from anywhere in your 127 00:08:20,380 --> 00:08:20,840 portfolio? 128 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,900 It doesn't have to be something that's on TAS. 129 00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:28,120 Uh, I, I believe you could still register, uh, uh, a services. 130 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,180 I, I, you know, I, I have a catalog. 131 00:08:31,460 --> 00:08:31,620 Yeah. 132 00:08:31,660 --> 00:08:34,380 And the catalog from pretty much, I guess, anywhere, right. 133 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:39,340 Uh, whatever that has the, um, there's like a, there's like a YAML format, right. 134 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:40,140 To register. 135 00:08:40,340 --> 00:08:40,500 That's right. 136 00:08:40,620 --> 00:08:40,980 Yeah. 137 00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:46,460 So assuming you have that in your repo, I, I said, I assume, you know, it will, it should 138 00:08:46,460 --> 00:08:49,040 register, uh, just like any other. 139 00:08:49,860 --> 00:08:50,480 Yeah, cool. 140 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:50,900 Exactly. 141 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:52,800 I'm looking forward to seeing that. 142 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:53,960 I can't wait to see your video. 143 00:08:54,380 --> 00:08:54,680 Yeah. 144 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:55,840 Well, me too. 145 00:08:56,020 --> 00:08:59,040 I have to make it first too, but it'll be thrilling. 146 00:08:59,660 --> 00:09:01,200 Get the jazz hands on. 147 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:01,680 Yeah. 148 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:02,100 Yeah. 149 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:03,280 Yeah. 150 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:05,560 Very, very excited about that. 151 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,140 Uh, well, so, so what, what's number two on your list there? 152 00:09:09,380 --> 00:09:11,720 Like what, uh, number two, uh, let's see. 153 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,560 So I guess we'll kind of go into, I can talk about a couple other, um, other features as, 154 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:20,080 as an additional developer productivity. 155 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:29,860 So, uh, the next kind of feature, um, and it's very, this is a feature that's very specific 156 00:09:29,860 --> 00:09:35,300 and I kind of really, uh, you know, makes TAS shine within the, you know, even in the 157 00:09:35,300 --> 00:09:39,540 current, uh, 20, 23, uh, landscape, uh, as we will. 158 00:09:39,540 --> 00:09:46,260 But the, um, integrated windows authentication support for .NET framework applications is now 159 00:09:46,260 --> 00:09:48,780 live within TAS 4.0. 160 00:09:49,060 --> 00:09:53,260 So, uh, if you're not familiar with what that means, that's essentially, uh, you know, kind 161 00:09:53,260 --> 00:09:59,960 of these, like, I guess we call them now legacy .NET framework applications, uh, that are still 162 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:04,780 probably running on, you know, windows servers, uh, but they, they make use of the, uh, you know, 163 00:10:04,820 --> 00:10:08,160 integrated windows authentication for, you know, authentication to the app. 164 00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:13,620 Those can actually now migrate into TAS and not be blocked because the, uh, some of the 165 00:10:13,620 --> 00:10:18,120 build pack processes and things before actually didn't support that IWA protocol, but now that's 166 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,860 been changed that we can allow that. 167 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:25,500 So kind of that last bastion of kind of .NET framework apps that were kind of stuck on 168 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:30,600 potentially, you know, legacy application servers that still needed, you know, patched and 169 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,000 rebooted every month and, you know, not a lot of automation around that process. 170 00:10:35,340 --> 00:10:37,740 Any of those apps can move into the platform now. 171 00:10:38,020 --> 00:10:44,800 And, um, if you're a .NET shop or .NET framework shop, uh, there's a lot of value, um, you know, 172 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,960 in migrating and you could potentially save a lot of time savings, um, just from the developer 173 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:56,020 and kind of, uh, platform engineering perspective of migrating this to a modern platform and kind 174 00:10:56,020 --> 00:11:01,520 of getting your journey, you know, getting out of the days of kind of the legacy app server, uh, situation. 175 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:06,480 And there's not a lot of things, you know, in the market that can run .NET framework 176 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,920 applications in any kind of cloud native way. 177 00:11:09,260 --> 00:11:14,220 So that's something very unique to, um, so that's something to, uh, keep an eye on. 178 00:11:14,220 --> 00:11:18,720 Not everybody has .NET framework applications, but if you do, uh, I would, uh, definitely check 179 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,940 this out and see maybe where, uh, it can help, uh, potentially, uh, improve some of your processes. 180 00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:25,020 Yeah. 181 00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:29,620 And this is because it's got actual windows OS containers in there, hasn't it? 182 00:11:29,620 --> 00:11:29,740 Yeah. 183 00:11:29,740 --> 00:11:30,060 Yeah. 184 00:11:30,060 --> 00:11:33,820 So like, so you're not building off a Linux base, you're building off a windows base. 185 00:11:33,820 --> 00:11:38,620 And it sounds like the last part of that was the identity management piece. 186 00:11:38,620 --> 00:11:42,580 And that's now, you can now integrate that well into those containers. 187 00:11:42,580 --> 00:11:43,900 So that sounds fantastic. 188 00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:49,380 Especially like you said, if you're a .NET shop, you're a Microsoft, uh, you know, a lot 189 00:11:49,380 --> 00:11:53,340 of folks that we talk to using Microsoft all the time and very interested in framework 190 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:55,300 support, you know, full framework support. 191 00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:56,460 So that sounds really cool. 192 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:57,540 Yeah. 193 00:11:57,580 --> 00:11:57,880 So, yeah. 194 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,720 And then just to, to kind of add onto that, if you're not familiar with it, Taz has a container 195 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:08,800 scheduler called Diego and it can run a, a full Linux Diego stack and a full, you know, 196 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,880 windows server stack as well. 197 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:11,400 So it does. 198 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:11,700 Yeah. 199 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:18,160 So it's in parallel can support both Linux and, you know, traditional windows server workloads 200 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:18,560 as well. 201 00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:19,080 Yeah. 202 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,660 And it can send apps in the correct direction, can't it? 203 00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:23,240 It can, you know, it knows the windows. 204 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,980 Apps are going over to this particular cell, the, uh, the Linux apps going in a different 205 00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:28,480 direction. 206 00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:29,260 Exactly. 207 00:12:29,260 --> 00:12:32,680 So it's a good, good, you know, it's good for tying everything together, isn't it? 208 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:39,700 You don't have to feel excluded because of your, um, windows, uh, uh, investments. 209 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:44,260 You know, you can keep making those windows investments and still have them relevant in a cloud 210 00:12:44,260 --> 00:12:45,620 native environment, which is good. 211 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:46,600 Exactly. 212 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:47,020 Exactly. 213 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,720 Uh, let's see one more, I'll pick a couple more little small features, not necessarily 214 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:57,960 small features, but, um, features within the continued developer, uh, productivity front. 215 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:03,080 Um, so we're, we're starting to see, um, introduction of cloud native build packs. 216 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,000 So they're kind of like the next generation of build packs. 217 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:12,260 Um, so history lesson, uh, the TAS build packs are known really kind of as the cloud foundry 218 00:13:12,260 --> 00:13:14,700 or V2 versions of build packs. 219 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:18,600 And then cloud native build packs came along, which is kind of like the V3 variant. 220 00:13:18,820 --> 00:13:23,520 So now we're, uh, we're actually adding cloud native build packs into TAS as well, in addition 221 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,920 to their already, you know, in the already existing build packs. 222 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:32,780 So, um, there's been a lot of, uh, work being done to kind of adopt the cloud native build 223 00:13:32,780 --> 00:13:35,120 packs and, and kind of introduce them into TAS. 224 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:41,380 This is, you know, the, the kind of goal of this is to continue to, you know, uh, add additional 225 00:13:41,380 --> 00:13:46,340 support for different, you know, languages or, or configurations and, you know, just to kind 226 00:13:46,340 --> 00:13:50,720 of stay, stay up the, up to the speed with all the different build pack technology. 227 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,120 And I think the first build pack we'll see in 4.0 or the cloud native build pack we'll see 228 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,340 is the, the web servers type build pack. 229 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:03,160 Um, but you know, as things progress, like kind of the framework's been built to add, hopefully 230 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,440 quickly add more, uh, different, you know, different cloud native build packs as well. 231 00:14:07,820 --> 00:14:09,300 And, you know, subsequent releases. 232 00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:11,120 So just kind of keep, stay tuned there. 233 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:16,300 And in addition to that, the, um, the CF Linux FS4. 234 00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:18,400 Stacks are, are ready now as well. 235 00:14:18,820 --> 00:14:26,380 So another, you know, another kind of big variant there is, uh, what base OS, the, um, the platform 236 00:14:26,380 --> 00:14:28,760 uses for the container operating system. 237 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:35,400 And, um, we're just revving that to the next, you know, essentially the next version of Linux 238 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,960 OS, which I believe that is, I think that's still based on Ubuntu jammy as well. 239 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,180 And Linux FS4. 240 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,060 Um, jammy for the win. 241 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:43,580 Yeah. 242 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:43,940 Yeah. 243 00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:48,640 So, you know, just again, seeing that, uh, developers not having to worry about, you know, building 244 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,220 container images and it's just, you know, you kind of push your code up to the platform 245 00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:54,560 and everything's happy there. 246 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,220 Now, now, you know, maybe what's the difference? 247 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,020 You know, we had the two types of build packs. 248 00:15:01,420 --> 00:15:02,880 What's the difference between those two? 249 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:12,180 So, um, so the V2 or the Cloud Foundry build packs are kind of, um, let's just say the default 250 00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:17,660 build packs have shipped with TAS for quite some time and the cloud native build packs, uh, 251 00:15:17,660 --> 00:15:23,060 were kind of introduced and you've seen, um, cause so cloud native build packs and Ben, 252 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,320 correct me if I'm wrong here. 253 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,360 Cause I think you probably know some about this too, but, uh, are really kind of like a, a, 254 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,060 a new spec for build packs. 255 00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:34,540 And like an implementation of cloud native build packs are known as, uh, Paquetto build 256 00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:38,840 packs, which is another kind of open source project, um, that, you know, VMware sponsors. 257 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,500 And I believe the Paquetto build packs are actually assigned us associated with the Cloud 258 00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:43,560 Foundry foundation too. 259 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:49,320 Uh, but that's just, you know, a new, new kind of take a new iteration of these build packs. 260 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,780 Um, so we kind of see this V2 and V3 variant. 261 00:15:52,780 --> 00:15:58,720 And I believe if we look at Tanzu application platform, a lot of the build packs based in, 262 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,360 and TAP are, uh, off cloud native build packs as well. 263 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:03,260 So, right. 264 00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:04,400 Yeah, that's right. 265 00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:08,220 So as a developer, you probably won't notice any difference. 266 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,380 You'll still do a CF push in the same way you always did. 267 00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:16,820 You'll still get a build pack selected based on the source code that you've asked it to build. 268 00:16:16,940 --> 00:16:21,920 So it still has a detect feature and it's still going to detect your source code and then pick 269 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,780 the appropriate stack to build underneath that source code into a container. 270 00:16:26,940 --> 00:16:30,680 There's a hardened container based on Jammy as, uh, as Nick was saying. 271 00:16:30,860 --> 00:16:35,780 But I think the difference in terms of, if you watch the log, if you watch the log of 272 00:16:35,780 --> 00:16:39,720 these two things, I think probably the thing that you'll notice that feels slightly different 273 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:46,180 is just the amount of granularity that's available in the version three is, I think it's higher. 274 00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:47,000 It feels higher. 275 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,460 When you look at the logs, it's selecting more details. 276 00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:55,620 It's detecting more details about what's actually in the source code and then building layers 277 00:16:55,620 --> 00:16:56,780 based on those details. 278 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,060 That's how it feels to me. 279 00:16:58,460 --> 00:17:05,100 But in terms of the end product, the end product is perfectly compliant container runs first time 280 00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:06,040 runs your app. 281 00:17:06,620 --> 00:17:08,420 You don't have to worry about build packs. 282 00:17:08,540 --> 00:17:08,940 Sorry. 283 00:17:09,060 --> 00:17:11,020 You don't have to worry about Docker files at all. 284 00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:15,300 So you don't have to sort of go into the details of how it's constructed. 285 00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:18,180 You just say, here's my source code, build it into a container. 286 00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:19,920 The build pack will get on with that. 287 00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:24,760 Whether it's a cloud native build pack in version three or a version two, it still works in the 288 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:25,260 same way. 289 00:17:25,740 --> 00:17:29,540 It's just, like I said, there's just a few differences in the specification and the way 290 00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:33,600 that it's, that it's actually built out that you might notice the difference if you're going 291 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,240 through the logs, but if you don't, you don't want to know, you probably don't need to know. 292 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,040 Yeah. 293 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,080 And, and it's with this release, it sounds like you'll be assured there's jam in it. 294 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,320 So yeah, plenty of jam. 295 00:17:44,420 --> 00:17:45,620 All good servers run jam. 296 00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:47,600 My server at home is running jam. 297 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:48,420 So yeah. 298 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:49,240 Okay. 299 00:17:49,580 --> 00:17:51,280 Another great sticker idea here. 300 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,660 That reminds me of the phenomena where, uh, where, you know, in the eighties, 301 00:17:55,740 --> 00:18:01,320 kids would put like oatmeal and jam and VCRs, like, you know, loaded up with jam. 302 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:03,300 I remember that. 303 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,260 I remember space, I remember space balls where there was jamming that went on. 304 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:10,600 We've been jammed. 305 00:18:10,780 --> 00:18:10,980 Yeah. 306 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,660 And then they like, like lick it off the satellite and like it's raspberry, right? 307 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:15,400 Or so that, I don't know. 308 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:15,800 But yeah. 309 00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:16,760 Yeah. 310 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:19,460 Oh, that's a, that's a good movie. 311 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:20,060 We've gone. 312 00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:22,080 I think that possibly dates me. 313 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,620 I heard about it once. 314 00:18:23,620 --> 00:18:24,820 Maybe that's what I should say. 315 00:18:25,740 --> 00:18:27,860 Everybody wants, uh, had this in. 316 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,460 Uh, well, what else do we have going on in 4.0? 317 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:32,780 Yeah. 318 00:18:32,860 --> 00:18:34,660 How do we, uh, transition out of the jam here? 319 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:35,020 Okay. 320 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,660 Um, get out of a jam. 321 00:18:37,020 --> 00:18:37,800 Yeah, exactly. 322 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:46,840 I guess, uh, take off my, uh, developer hat, put on my platform engineer hat. 323 00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:47,900 Uh, let's see here. 324 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,660 Um, so there's a lot of features around. 325 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,660 Does that look like a yellow hard hat? 326 00:18:52,660 --> 00:18:54,980 That one is that like, that's probably how it is. 327 00:18:54,980 --> 00:18:55,640 Isn't it? 328 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,600 I don't, I don't, has the community, uh, coalesced on the, um, the, um, the hat. 329 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,860 I think it's a construction hat. 330 00:19:02,980 --> 00:19:03,100 Yeah. 331 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:03,880 Yeah, exactly. 332 00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:06,400 Putting your, putting your construction hats on. 333 00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:07,040 What do you see? 334 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,580 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 335 00:19:08,780 --> 00:19:11,120 Um, so let's see. 336 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:17,340 So there's, um, some features around, um, let's say custom app metric rate limiting. 337 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:25,500 So, uh, so developers can, can make custom, um, metrics that emit out of their applications. 338 00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:27,360 And some of those could be quite noisy. 339 00:19:27,580 --> 00:19:32,540 So now, um, there are, uh, abilities to set kind of global limits and kind of, uh, kind 340 00:19:32,540 --> 00:19:35,660 of regulate that, that, uh, those metrics. 341 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,340 So that we don't, we don't potentially get an overflow situation. 342 00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:43,360 So that, that's going to be pretty useful for the, the platform engineers of the house 343 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:49,220 to any, any kind of tool or, uh, uh, uh, you know, thing that can, uh, gauge that they 344 00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:53,800 can do to, uh, either, you know, kind of control the flow or prevent an overflow, especially 345 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:59,140 anything around logging or metrics, uh, they'll know that it's pretty, pretty well appreciated, 346 00:19:59,140 --> 00:20:04,580 uh, to, to help kind of prevent, um, any kind of, uh, over overflow within, within that 347 00:20:04,580 --> 00:20:04,980 system. 348 00:20:05,340 --> 00:20:06,500 So that's one. 349 00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:08,840 Why don't, why don't children come with this feature? 350 00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:14,100 That's what I, well, you just turn them down a little bit. 351 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,620 Like, I want to control the flow just a little bit. 352 00:20:17,620 --> 00:20:20,320 Is that like a questions per minute type thing? 353 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:21,400 Only one? 354 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:28,080 Why, why, why yeah, if we invented that, I think we'd be in a whole different business 355 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:39,780 then, but, uh, uh, so, uh, moving on, um, the platform now supports, uh, open, uh, IDC 356 00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:40,660 provider support. 357 00:20:40,660 --> 00:20:46,860 So in addition to like SAML and LDAP, you can use, uh, OIDC to provide authentication into 358 00:20:46,860 --> 00:20:47,420 the system. 359 00:20:47,420 --> 00:20:52,460 So, I mean, that's just another, uh, you know, authentication provider that a lot of, uh, 360 00:20:52,460 --> 00:20:53,300 folks are moving to. 361 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:58,740 So that's just helping platform engineers, uh, you know, kind of stay, uh, keep their 362 00:20:58,740 --> 00:21:01,560 authentication into the latest, uh, format. 363 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:06,380 And that's typically tied into like a, uh, SSO or enterprise SSO type thing. 364 00:21:06,380 --> 00:21:11,940 So making it easier for people to, you know, authenticate into the system and, you know, less, 365 00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:17,320 less iterations, uh, going through a password, you know, username, password type thing. 366 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,160 I think, I think every time we, uh, catch up on the latest, uh, Taz stuff with you, there's 367 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,480 like new authentication integrations. 368 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,520 I mean, of course, right? 369 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,340 Cause that's, uh, you, you need that. 370 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:34,560 Like, uh, and, and, uh, as, uh, as, uh, as it gets used more and more, you encounter the 371 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:40,920 more thrilling and even exotic authentication systems that you wouldn't think to integrate 372 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:41,520 with initially. 373 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:47,380 Yeah, well, well, I'm sure we'll come up with something next for sure, but, um, let's 374 00:21:47,380 --> 00:21:52,680 see, there's a, there's been a playbook has been built to help with the CF Linux FS3 and 375 00:21:52,680 --> 00:22:01,880 FS4 migration, as we kind of talked about before in the additional, um, uh, uh, stacks offered 376 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:02,660 within the platform. 377 00:22:02,660 --> 00:22:07,940 So helping, uh, platform engineers kind of to, to get, to get to that, that experience and 378 00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:10,180 some tooling built around that to help as well. 379 00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:14,240 There was a migration going from two to three, kind of a few years back. 380 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:19,080 And we've, you know, tried to introduce more tooling and more help for this upcoming migration. 381 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:25,300 Um, because of stuff like, I don't know, container D changes or is it, is it that sort of stuff 382 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:30,320 you mean, this thing, this thing that are in the base image that perhaps, uh, yeah, it's 383 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,900 just, it's just base image changing. 384 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,500 There's, you know, potential things about, you know, like you essentially have to, um, restage 385 00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:40,240 the application to go to the new stack. 386 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:40,860 Yeah. 387 00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:45,560 And sometimes it's just weird, you know, your base OS is updating. 388 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:52,520 So there might be a weird, you know, compiler thing or like a slight difference on how like, 389 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,240 like Python works or PHP works. 390 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,120 So just, uh, you know, 99% of the time, everything will be fine. 391 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:03,020 But there's like these weird, you know, offlier cases that people need to, you know, just be 392 00:23:03,020 --> 00:23:07,840 aware of and, uh, you know, make sure, you know, you're, you're, you're kind of paying 393 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:08,820 attention to these type of things. 394 00:23:09,580 --> 00:23:10,180 It's good. 395 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,900 It's always good to know that there's a, there's a chance, but it's also good to know 396 00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:18,600 that it's a small chances and a small number of cases, you might need something like a, like 397 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,660 this guide, but in majority of cases you don't. 398 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,460 Well, I think too, and it's, it may seem like, you know, for folks not familiar with, with the 399 00:23:27,460 --> 00:23:29,160 product that like, why are we talking about this? 400 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,940 But I mean, the, the platform's been around for over a decade now. 401 00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:38,780 So like, we've had to deal with like operating systems going out end of life and like going 402 00:23:38,780 --> 00:23:42,100 to the next version and like, you know, like it's been around, it's very mature. 403 00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:47,460 So there's definitely operational procedures about, you know, just, you know, Hey, we, you 404 00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:52,240 know, we have to go to this next version because what we started on is not, you know, it's 405 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:52,800 end of support. 406 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,420 So we got to go to the next version versus, you know, some of these newer things haven't 407 00:23:56,420 --> 00:23:58,240 been around long enough to, to deal with that yet. 408 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,660 So I guess it's just, it is what it is, right? 409 00:24:01,060 --> 00:24:01,280 Yeah. 410 00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:05,480 And I said, like, if you're, if you're running a Linux desktop, like I am, then, you know, 411 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,940 with Ubuntu every two years, you, you got to expect an upgrade cycle is sometimes something 412 00:24:10,940 --> 00:24:13,700 in that upgrade cycle that you have to contend with. 413 00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:20,600 You have to, you know, think about and maybe change the way that you do a few things, but 414 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:26,600 it's part and parcel of the continuing innovation that's going on in that space. 415 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,140 It's really, you just have to, yeah, go along with the ride, I think. 416 00:24:31,140 --> 00:24:31,660 Yeah, exactly. 417 00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:38,420 So some more iterations here, we're going to kind of go down into the Tansu operations 418 00:24:38,420 --> 00:24:44,780 manager space, but that's kind of, you know, one of the key mechanisms for, you know, managing 419 00:24:44,780 --> 00:24:46,640 and deploying Tansu application service. 420 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:52,500 It's kind of our appliance package version of Bosch and all of those things. 421 00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:59,000 But the, so the Tansu operations manager is, is declaring long-term support in kind of 422 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,060 tandem with TAS. 423 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:08,640 So, so the operations manager 3.0.5 is like going to be kind of paired with this 4.0 release. 424 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:14,520 So, you know, these, these kind of variants will stay in the long-term support track as, 425 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,940 you know, as needed. 426 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,360 And, you know, you know, you don't really get TAS without ops manager. 427 00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:22,840 So having them kind of be more lockstep makes sense from a release cycle. 428 00:25:23,660 --> 00:25:29,260 And another really kind of big note we're talking about here with, with platform engineers 429 00:25:29,260 --> 00:25:31,560 is certificates. 430 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:37,080 And we've done a lot of work in the past releases to help make certificates, you know, easier with 431 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:37,620 the platform. 432 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,860 The platform has a lot of kind of bundled managed certificates because we're doing a lot 433 00:25:41,860 --> 00:25:47,120 of different things with VMs, with containers, you know, load balancing, all these different 434 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:48,640 things all require certificates. 435 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,640 But we're trying to make this process less, you know, less painful throughout every release. 436 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,280 And with this, this, this kind of new release here, we're seeing the ability to automatically 437 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,140 rotate the non-configurable lease certificate, or that's really kind of like the, the bottom 438 00:26:06,140 --> 00:26:11,840 tiered certificates that are like the most need, need to be rotated the most often, right? 439 00:26:11,860 --> 00:26:17,300 Because, you know, I don't think, I've never heard anyone, you know, in the IT industry 440 00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:21,680 really talk fondly about certificates, but it's just something, you know, we have to, we 441 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,340 have to deal with certificates in order to really kind of operate. 442 00:26:25,620 --> 00:26:31,580 So these certificates now, when an operator goes to hit apply changes or really kind of push 443 00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:36,160 a change to the platform, you can check to say, hey, automatically go and rotate these 444 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,140 non-configurable lease certificates as well. 445 00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:41,840 So that's going to just, you know, help people to like, all right, I'm already pushing 446 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:42,360 a change. 447 00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:46,460 I'm going to do that too, just to make sure these certificates have been rotated to save 448 00:26:46,460 --> 00:26:47,220 a whole lot of time. 449 00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:52,240 Because beforehand they'd have to do some kind of like out of band process to, to get these, 450 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,660 these certificates rotated. 451 00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,460 And now just, you know, having that appear within the, the, the kind of the portal and 452 00:27:00,460 --> 00:27:05,660 say, you know, checkbox, rotate certs should hopefully save a lot of time and, and pain. 453 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,380 Because these are, these are the certificates that are rotated the most often. 454 00:27:10,380 --> 00:27:13,500 So I think that's the thing with reliability, isn't it? 455 00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,380 It's so reliable. 456 00:27:14,380 --> 00:27:16,320 You can leave it for a long time. 457 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,260 And if you do that, there's more of a chance that you'll hit one of the certificate issues 458 00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:26,060 because time will catch up with you from the certificates point of view, even though the 459 00:27:26,060 --> 00:27:27,800 app is perfectly fine. 460 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:34,900 So it's having that ability to sort of do it as part of other maintenance tasks that kind 461 00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:40,280 of staves off that date from ever coming to so close that it becomes a problem for you. 462 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:40,500 Right. 463 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:41,360 Exactly. 464 00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:41,680 Yeah. 465 00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:47,660 So then, so as time goes on, like, you know, you think that four year life cycle of that, 466 00:27:47,660 --> 00:27:49,760 you know, certificate authority is going to be fine. 467 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,800 But then when you're, you know, close to four years, like, well, I need to rotate that. 468 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,200 It's been, you know, four years. 469 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,180 So things like that, you know, we've had to deal with. 470 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:04,060 And then it seems like the kind of the security trend is to make the, the acceptable lease 471 00:28:04,060 --> 00:28:06,820 duration of certificates shorter and shorter and shorter. 472 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,600 And I think I even saw something on Twitter the other day that was like, we're going to make 473 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,200 them like a month or something, or like three months, like server certificates are going 474 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,000 to go down from one year to three months. 475 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,360 I was like, well, this person's clearly never worked in enterprise IT because having to everything 476 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:26,040 rotate us, you know, at minimum or at maximum of three months, a life cycle would be, that'd 477 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:26,500 be a lot. 478 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,800 But yeah, with 10,000 apps or whatever, you're going to be rotating several hundred times a 479 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:32,340 day on you. 480 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:32,960 Yeah. 481 00:28:33,220 --> 00:28:33,540 Yeah. 482 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,660 It's going to be, you're going to hack yourself. 483 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:37,320 Yeah. 484 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:38,240 That's what's going to happen. 485 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,800 Service on yourself, but too many rotations. 486 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,060 So the certificates rotate every, every minute or something. 487 00:28:47,140 --> 00:28:47,400 I don't know. 488 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:48,160 But yeah. 489 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,840 So yeah, I mean, that's just, you know, you know, rotating your certificates is kind of 490 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:53,800 like taking out the trash. 491 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:54,960 Nobody really wants to do it. 492 00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:01,660 And you're not going to get a big promotion or anything, but if you don't take out the trash, 493 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,740 there will eventually be consequences. 494 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:04,080 Right. 495 00:29:04,180 --> 00:29:06,460 So it's just got to get a big demotion. 496 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,320 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 497 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,660 I think you raise a good point that that would be a, uh, that would be a good award, like 498 00:29:13,660 --> 00:29:16,240 one, like a little, uh, a little acrylic trash bag. 499 00:29:16,460 --> 00:29:16,680 Yeah. 500 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,520 And it's, it's, it's the award you give someone for just like, you know, doing, doing their 501 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,240 job well that no one notices. 502 00:29:23,580 --> 00:29:27,820 And, uh, you know, cause otherwise you would have too many trash bags. 503 00:29:27,820 --> 00:29:31,620 Just, you get you, the, this month you get to taking out the trash award. 504 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:32,120 Yeah. 505 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:32,940 We appreciate it. 506 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,380 Thank you for not letting our certs expire. 507 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,440 That's right. 508 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,440 Well, like, like, so I think that's, uh, as, as with every TAS version, there's a whole 509 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,520 bunch of features and smaller things as well. 510 00:29:44,580 --> 00:29:51,580 Are there any, like, like let's pick out, are there any, uh, fascinating or like very small, 511 00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:54,680 but interesting developer features that have come out? 512 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,500 Like, like what's, what's a, what's a feature that like seems kind of small, but there's, 513 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,880 there's a, there's a developer and operations person out there who's like, oh, this is going 514 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,100 to save me three keys that I have to push. 515 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:06,960 Yeah. 516 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,380 So, so I got, I got a couple that come to mind. 517 00:30:10,380 --> 00:30:17,300 Uh, one of them is, um, so when we talk about like blue green deployments, right. 518 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:23,900 And, um, that's a typical like, uh, pattern use within TAS and, and other, you know, kind 519 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:25,860 of cloud native type situations. 520 00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:26,300 Right. 521 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,820 Uh, but essentially you have two copies of the app and then you do like the kind of routing 522 00:30:30,820 --> 00:30:33,720 and flip over when you, when you think that the new version is okay. 523 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,280 And you, you know, you know, you go from green to blue or vice versa. 524 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,420 And, uh, you know, if, if there's an issue with a new version of the application, you can 525 00:30:41,420 --> 00:30:42,880 roll, roll back to the other one. 526 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:48,340 And, you know, it's, it's the, it's essentially to help roll out, um, new changes of your application, 527 00:30:48,340 --> 00:30:52,320 minimizing downtime and minimizing impact of pencil. 528 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,760 Like, oops, we rolled out a new version and, uh, whoopsie, uh, we broke something. 529 00:30:57,660 --> 00:31:01,060 Maybe it's something that, you know, the, the folks at Twitter can start applying. 530 00:31:01,060 --> 00:31:11,040 Uh, but, um, the folks, uh, the, the, um, the, sorry, I tried to pull that off without laughing, 531 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,080 but I can, apparently it didn't work out. 532 00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:18,440 Um, the, that, that functionality within TAS, uh, has worked, but there is an issue with 533 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,840 some of the meta metadata. 534 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:26,580 And when you re re did that blue green, which would instantiate a CF rename, um, that, that 535 00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:32,120 name, the name wouldn't quite change in that people would lose apps, uh, logs and metrics 536 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,020 within, within, within that blue green flow. 537 00:31:35,020 --> 00:31:37,760 And that was actually kind of preventing some folks from doing that because they didn't want 538 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,460 to lose logging or metrics when that, that, that, that change hit. 539 00:31:41,620 --> 00:31:46,200 So now we, we've updated and fixed that so that when you do a CF rename and part of that 540 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:52,060 blue green kind of flow, the metadata and logs are, are all, they rename as well. 541 00:31:52,140 --> 00:31:55,760 So if you, if you're doing like a log stream or, or looking at logs through like, you know, 542 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,260 log aggregation system, when you're doing this process, you'll, that, that full name will 543 00:32:00,260 --> 00:32:05,400 flow properly and we won't lose logs when we do that, um, that rename process. 544 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:11,100 So it seems a bit, uh, kind of obscure to, you know, if you're not really kind of in deep 545 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:16,060 in the weeds on this, but, uh, for developers, it's, it's an, an engineering, it's, it's a big 546 00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:20,320 win because then if, if they want to continue down this path of, you know, using blue green, 547 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,180 they don't have to worry about potentially losing logs and metrics when, when this change 548 00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:24,700 happens. 549 00:32:25,380 --> 00:32:30,480 And, um, especially when you're testing new functionality, losing some logs potentially 550 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:31,820 could be not a good thing. 551 00:32:31,820 --> 00:32:36,420 So, um, this is definitely something that I think a lot of folks will be excited about 552 00:32:36,420 --> 00:32:42,240 that, you know, actually have been in use, have been using it and, and, and, um, you 553 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,760 know, continue to, to make improvements in that developer workflow there. 554 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,120 Well, yeah, yeah. 555 00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:50,540 I, I always like log piles, you know, you don't want to lose anything. 556 00:32:50,540 --> 00:32:55,520 Especially like you were saying that, uh, uh, you know, around something like releasing, 557 00:32:56,780 --> 00:33:00,520 putting a new release out, you want to collect as much about it as possible in case you have 558 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:01,720 to fix it. 559 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,600 And if not, not even just right away, but in, in the future. 560 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,960 Well, so, you know, how, how can, uh, how, how do people get ahold of this? 561 00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:13,220 Remind them of the process for, for getting an upgrade in place. 562 00:33:13,220 --> 00:33:14,380 How does that all work out? 563 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,760 Uh, an upgrade to Taser application service? 564 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:18,600 That's right. 565 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:18,960 Yeah. 566 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:19,280 Yeah. 567 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,640 So, you know, they can, um, well, a lot of our, uh, you know, tried and true platform 568 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,620 engineers will be making use of, uh, platform automation via concourse. 569 00:33:27,740 --> 00:33:34,280 And, um, they'll, they'll elect to pull this release from our, uh, beloved TanzuNet and 570 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,940 it kind of start propagating that through their systems kind of automagically. 571 00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:43,400 But you can go in and manually download that as well at TanzuNet when, when it becomes available 572 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:49,400 and, um, you know, upload it to your, to your, uh, ops manager and click apply changes pretty, 573 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:55,100 pretty easily, you know, pretty, pretty easily that, uh, a whole lot of hoops to go through. 574 00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:59,700 Um, is that where the docs will be as well, Nick at network.tanzu.com? 575 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:00,840 Is that right? 576 00:34:01,340 --> 00:34:01,660 Oh yeah. 577 00:34:01,740 --> 00:34:05,820 So there there'll be with, with, uh, with the actual release, there'll be release notes 578 00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:06,260 bundled. 579 00:34:06,460 --> 00:34:10,940 Uh, when you go to download it and you can go to within the, there's off to the right 580 00:34:10,940 --> 00:34:14,980 hand side, you can go like read the release notes and then you'll, you'll get all this, 581 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,480 you know, the actual release that's tied to the, to the release. 582 00:34:18,820 --> 00:34:26,560 Um, and if you want to, you know, obviously we have, uh, uh, the Tanzu tech zone site too, 583 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,380 which has a lot of focus for, uh, the Tanzu application servers too. 584 00:34:30,620 --> 00:34:38,400 So, uh, well, definitely we can keep, uh, keep an eye out for, um, you know, when, when 585 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:44,080 it, when it becomes GA, uh, I'll be, I'll be talking about it on my social media, uh, platforms. 586 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:50,820 And I believe we will kind of re, uh, rebroadcast this to the world when the GA date launches 587 00:34:50,820 --> 00:34:54,900 as well, just to make sure people can go in and get it when it's, you know, fresh off the 588 00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:56,140 presses, so to speak as well. 589 00:34:56,540 --> 00:35:00,560 Well, we better get your, uh, Twitter handle and Nick, do you want to call it out for 590 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:01,060 our listeners? 591 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,040 Yeah, it's, uh, at Taykun, sir, T-H-K-U-H-N-Z. 592 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,420 Um, so I'm pretty active on Twitter. 593 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,200 I do a little Mastodon and, and LinkedIn as well. 594 00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:13,520 So, uh, you can follow me, uh, there. 595 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,560 And you're building a heck of a server on, uh, Twitter. 596 00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:18,600 I noticed there's a few pages now and again. 597 00:35:18,620 --> 00:35:18,680 Yeah. 598 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:24,460 So yeah, I have a, I kind of side, uh, HomeLab project I've been working on and, um, I try 599 00:35:24,460 --> 00:35:29,140 to post daily of, uh, part of the hundred days of HomeLab, um, kind of hashtag there. 600 00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:34,980 Soon, hopefully I'll be running a Cloud Foundry in my basement or a TANZ application service 601 00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:35,540 in my basement. 602 00:35:35,540 --> 00:35:39,140 But, um, yeah, maybe I'll make a video about that too. 603 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:45,520 But yeah, I, uh, I've bought a lot of gear and I've, I've gone, uh, over time and over 604 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:45,880 budget. 605 00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:48,840 Uh, but it's been fun. 606 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,880 I think it sounds like the most expensive Home Automation I've ever heard of. 607 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:53,320 Yeah. 608 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:53,640 Yeah. 609 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:54,560 Yeah. 610 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:55,600 Yeah. 611 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,700 They're gonna run, uh, gonna run TAS for five of you in the house. 612 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:00,560 Yeah. 613 00:36:00,940 --> 00:36:02,820 It's gonna be a great developer experience. 614 00:36:02,900 --> 00:36:03,380 Let me tell you. 615 00:36:03,820 --> 00:36:04,260 Uh, yeah. 616 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,180 Well, you know, it's, it's fun to have your own cloud in, in your basement. 617 00:36:07,180 --> 00:36:10,020 You could call it the, uh, the Nicktastic Cloud. 618 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:10,620 Yeah. 619 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,280 Now I need to go register that domain, right? 620 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:13,940 Dot IO. 621 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:14,700 Yeah. 622 00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:20,220 Or, or, you know, you could use dot plumbing, dot limo. 623 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,920 I didn't, I didn't even know that plumbing was a thing. 624 00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:23,940 Oh yeah. 625 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:25,980 Like you can have anything now. 626 00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:26,300 Yeah. 627 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:32,040 Just set yourself aside like 45 minutes and go look at all the, uh, top, top level domains. 628 00:36:32,180 --> 00:36:33,820 You'll, you'll, it'll be very entertaining. 629 00:36:34,060 --> 00:36:34,420 Oh boy. 630 00:36:34,540 --> 00:36:36,040 It's the most important thing you'll shop for. 631 00:36:36,140 --> 00:36:38,340 Forget about all those switches and yeah. 632 00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:45,420 I'll, I'll, I'll end the day with a hundred new domain names registered to me for, for no 633 00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:46,120 apparent reason. 634 00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:47,140 Yeah. 635 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,700 The, the, the domain, the domain registrar I use, it has this. 636 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:55,120 Uh, it has an option where you can search everything and there's so many of them that 637 00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:00,980 like, it takes several minutes for it just to like populate and put all of the possible 638 00:37:00,980 --> 00:37:01,780 names in there. 639 00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:04,060 It's ridiculous, but oh boy. 640 00:37:04,460 --> 00:37:04,900 Yeah. 641 00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:05,280 Yeah. 642 00:37:05,340 --> 00:37:05,620 All right. 643 00:37:05,620 --> 00:37:10,800 Well, uh, as always, it's, it's, it's great to have you on for a, for an update and, and 644 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,220 just to remind people there's, there's a regular cadence of releases. 645 00:37:14,660 --> 00:37:19,400 So when, like when around, when do you think the next version, uh, when, when is it targeted 646 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:20,360 for on the cadence? 647 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:27,400 Um, so from the, the, the cadence, uh, for Taz, we aimed it to release, uh, twice a year. 648 00:37:27,740 --> 00:37:32,700 So the, the, the first kind of release is going to be the long-term support track. 649 00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:36,220 And then we'll have a release later in the year, which is that, that fast track for folks 650 00:37:36,220 --> 00:37:40,880 to what, uh, let's just consume every release, uh, every six months approximately. 651 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,120 I think we should call that the fun track. 652 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:44,020 The fun track. 653 00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:44,380 Yeah. 654 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:44,880 Yeah. 655 00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:45,940 Wow. 656 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,920 Ben and I, this is, this is the, uh, you know, they call it the golden hour when the sun sets 657 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,200 and your photos look good, but this is like the golden hour for marketing, I think is, is 658 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,260 what's going on over here. 659 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,340 The sun is setting here, but I can't claim to look good. 660 00:38:05,060 --> 00:38:10,160 And, uh, talking about releases too, there are a few other kind of ecosystem releases 661 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,000 that, uh, are happening too. 662 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,300 So, um, uh, just keep your eyes peeled for that. 663 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:22,760 But, uh, one more thing to highlight is that the, uh, my SQL VMware SQL for my SQL, uh, called 664 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:23,160 tile. 665 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,360 Uh, um, I'm, I may have butchered the actual official product name there, but the, the, 666 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:33,900 my SQL tile, uh, is, uh, is, uh, revving, uh, to support my SQL 8.0 as well. 667 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,680 So yeah, it's going to be a big for folks using that tile and the cloud service broker tiles 668 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,480 for folks who want to use TAS and use cloud native services with the big three hyperscalers. 669 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,640 Those are revving as well, kind of out of band of the, the big TAS releases. 670 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:55,940 Uh, but we do have a lot of work in that ecosystem, um, in the TAS overall ecosystem with the tiles, 671 00:38:56,060 --> 00:39:01,100 the partner tiles, all kind of revving, um, kind of as fast as they can get releases out 672 00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:01,420 to you. 673 00:39:01,460 --> 00:39:06,320 So, uh, you know, we have two major releases per year, but then, you know, there's a lot 674 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:11,480 of other ecosystem tiles kind of happening in between and, uh, different things happening 675 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:11,660 there. 676 00:39:11,660 --> 00:39:16,040 So everyone just, uh, keep your eye out there and I'll, I'll try to do my best to help, 677 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,560 um, kind of highlight those as well, too, to let, uh, make sure folks are knowing about 678 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,100 those releases too, as they come out. 679 00:39:24,100 --> 00:39:24,500 Yeah. 680 00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:25,340 Well, that'll be fun. 681 00:39:25,540 --> 00:39:25,720 Yeah. 682 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:30,220 Well, as, as, as we mentioned earlier, uh, you know, I think, I think if you're interested, 683 00:39:30,220 --> 00:39:33,600 you will certainly be aware of the, uh, the release some, sometime soon. 684 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:39,220 And, uh, if you're listening to this and you'd like wanted to get, uh, you know, uh, pointers 685 00:39:39,220 --> 00:39:43,880 to things, if you go to tanzutalk.com, you can look up this episode and we'll put some 686 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,060 links in the show note to it. 687 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,220 And, uh, you know, maybe, maybe at some point in our regular recording schedule, Ben, uh, 688 00:39:50,220 --> 00:39:55,580 when, when the Nicktastic cloud is fully installed, we can have a, we can have a little after show 689 00:39:55,580 --> 00:40:00,440 special and, uh, just, we can, we can do a little retrospective, see what we've learned. 690 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,520 Will there be drinks? 691 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,800 I'll tell me if there are drinks. 692 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:03,380 Yes. 693 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:04,220 That's right. 694 00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:09,740 We can, uh, we can, uh, we can all coalesce in the next green room. 695 00:40:10,060 --> 00:40:10,320 Yeah. 696 00:40:11,420 --> 00:40:14,680 I think, I think, I think what you got to target is putting it in a backpack. 697 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:15,620 That's all. 698 00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:18,960 You always want to have a cloud in a backpack or a platform in a backpack. 699 00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:21,680 Booze on a sort of a sucky straw thing. 700 00:40:21,820 --> 00:40:22,140 Is that right? 701 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,140 Yeah, that's right. 702 00:40:23,220 --> 00:40:25,400 I think that belongs on a hat, but yes. 703 00:40:26,180 --> 00:40:30,300 That's how that's a, that's a platform engineering hard hat to the next extreme, right? 704 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:31,160 Yes. 705 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,040 A hard hat with two beers on. 706 00:40:34,220 --> 00:40:34,520 Yeah. 707 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:35,640 Okay. 708 00:40:35,740 --> 00:40:35,960 Yeah. 709 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:36,300 Yeah. 710 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:36,960 All right. 711 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,600 Well, uh, well, thanks for being on and, uh, thanks for listening. 712 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,520 It was fun and we'll see everyone next time. 713 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,360 Bye bye. 714 00:40:43,820 --> 00:40:44,240 Thank you.