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so michael i'm dying to know what happened with the whole going to buy glasses thing did you get

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some i did now did i go over that we went to a uh the eye store we went to is it was it was great

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uh commerce in this day and age we went to the the nice mall here uh down by the arena uh and uh

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there are two glasses stores literally next door to each other right and so like the way i selected

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them was based on the uh how do you say placard based on the placard that seemed to have the best

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deal that week and uh you know i think i think that's kind of like i mean you you do a lot of

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this kind of work ed i'm sure it can feel like sometimes competitive stuff even for the most

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complicated software is basically that it's just like who's got the coolest sign outside their

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kubernetes cluster you know yeah i like the colors on that one well exactly so that uh my wife and i

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i went in and they had a deal where if you you get two what was it you could get three glasses

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for the price of the most expensive one you know whatever that deal is three glasses for

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the pair of four for the price of four and and and then the you know this is another thing i was

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thinking about you ed there was some complicated pricing spreadsheet where if you only wanted to get

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one extra pair of glasses you could redeem a voucher that you could give to someone which

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should give them like 50 off their second pair of glasses i i don't know it was crazy and then

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i could go on about that that was that was actually now that i'm reliving it in my head a great example

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of software eating the world but doing a bad job at it um anyway sounds like it sounds like a pyramid

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scheme for glasses well i mean since since uh there's a little bit of interest that the the guy doing

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he was this great guy i i enjoyed uh his company a lot but the way to redeem this voucher was he had to

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like send an email on my behalf and then that emailed him back like you know the 64 letter code

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of a voucher then he had to copy and paste that into his ordering system so that he could do the ordering

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for me right and it was just like man i can just imagine there were like three to four different teams

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who didn't want to have a meeting seven months ago and they were just like i got it what if we just

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fire off an email and they can redeem that and then their product manager was like solved let's go get

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lunch uh and and that's that's that's how computers happen uh and computering and software seems to

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happen in the real world but so i got i got i got i got glasses here you go you can give me a review

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let's take a look oh look at that very yeah this is these are this is our uh ray bands called uh mr burbank

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i guess that's a reference to california i'm assuming there's probably a burbank over there

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and uh the uk nice so i think it's almost great minds think like i've just got our new set of glasses

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which look remarkably like yours i would say oh yes apart from maybe thinner rimmed and not branded

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sadly oh yeah standard because i figured i wouldn't really wear them when i work at home nobody's going

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to see me apart from now people on this podcast yeah and and then i got a second pair you see the

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sunglasses there you go oh the sunglasses but and it's the same i uh the one that i wanted didn't exist

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and so i had the brilliant speaking of brilliant programmer insights i was like well why don't i just get

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the same frames and then i can go to lunch i don't have to think about this anymore and so uh there we

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are so now i think i think my setup here is just at the range where i can still see so i don't wear

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these uh at my desk but boy i know i i i guess you two have glasses so you know this but the um the

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world is basically like in 4k i was thinking it was like a a four by three aspect ratio like maybe i don't

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know if it was in in tsc or pal but i i was sorely uh mistaken for many years perhaps a decade or more

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yeah you think the world's all like hd and then all of a sudden oh my word yeah i'm in the same

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boat as ed though i i also need as i use these so much now i need like second pair because it's

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inevitable i'm going to lose them or break them or do something ah yes so i've done the same as ed

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and gone down to local opticians you know and getting like a basic pair they're so basic they've

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been waiting at the opticians for like three weeks i i guess i guess i guess the only downside is that

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i've realized that well maybe this is good good uh therapy for me is i realized that i'm not the

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only human in existence whose face kind of looks like uh you know a better part of the moon

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everyone else has kind of character and stuff going on with their their face and skin which is which is uh

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nice i thought you meant the the the coloring because this is this is kind of yeah this is moony

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i would say uh-huh stare at the moon you know you get the different shades of gray

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i was i was you know we gray and the glasses we we've been working on some uh some keynote scripting

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for for a conference you and i've been and i went back and watched again your uh your your keynoting of

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the SpringOne 2020 uh video no no that it was it was and and we talked about this previously and you

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pointed out several things and going back to look at it and it is it i think having the green screen

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where they they cut out you and um brian right and uh yeah it looks it was it was i don't i i think i

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kind of like it is very i don't know i i think i think i enjoyed the aesthetic and and what i enjoy about

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the aesthetic is that it's an accidental aesthetic that someone came up with but it's definitely there

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if you look for it so i think i think it's good it's awful i hate it i look back at it and i go oh

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man because that i know that that was sprung like right at the last second like all this big box arrived

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with all the gear in it you know recording equipment and lights and green screen and all that sort of stuff

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and then i'll put it all up and then the day of the conference it's like right you're going to look

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like this and there was no choice it's like oh okay i look like the whitest guy alive for the whole

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thing i don't know what was going on with the white balance but you're a proper brit that's all it means

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i've never seen sunlight uh yeah there was no conservatory to uh or a solarium did i get that right

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solarium then uh you know you could hang out there well speaking of all the recording gear we've got a

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we got a a a a little bit of a backlog of news to go through we've gone through and selected some

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things that i think well i'll tell you the filter i use fun to talk about uh but hopefully relevant as

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well so uh well first of all we had uh vmware explore uh last week were you were you at that ed

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if so i wasn't no no i used to go to the vm world all the time before i joined vmware and then i've

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gone quite rarely ever since uh well you know we have so many internal emails about what's happening

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that you can just get the summary of it uh through through there which which is always good stuff but

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i thought you know i don't want to go go over all the the the world of vm where explore world uh and

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everything but at least uh our our friend uh our co-worker cindy wrote up a a summary of the tanzu

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related things and i you know we'll put a link to it in the show notes so you can go look at it

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uh at tanzu talk.com but you know just to give uh just to give a quick rundown it's a rare instance

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where i have actually read and prepared so i can give the summary of it uh the we have our tanzu

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kubernetes grid which you know i more or less think of as our kubernetes distro plus a bunch of extra

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stuff on it uh and there there's there's some management support that was added in uh for uh

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various ways of doing cluster stuff but also now it has support for uh running on oracle cloud

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which as we'll get to if we get to the uh the new gartner magic quadrant uh we'll have to maybe we can

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look at the magic quadrant and circle all of the uh the the clouds that the tanzu kubernetes grid runs

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on and then also there's uh i don't i don't think it's quite out yet but the tanzu mission control

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is going to be made uh air gap which is to say you don't need the internet to use it which um there

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are many people who are into that kind of thing oh tons yeah and and it it proves like we should name

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this rule but maybe there's like you know the the software defined talk podcast rule of uh sas

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startups which is eventually you're going to be on premise so why not just do it from the start

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like this is what uh what always happens and then uh there were the tonsu service mesh which is

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perhaps one of the more descriptive products uh out there uh it looks like what it's added in is some

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uh or it's it was some roadmap discussion that they had things that were working on and coming and

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there'll be some nice auto discovery of uh of your kubernetes and your vm based things but then also

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it'll be fun to see how this pans out uh i i obviously didn't read the details but it looks like they're working on um

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i would say storing the configuration and policy you know in get somewhere so you can do

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get ops style stuff which uh usually aids in um not only automating things better but also uh trying

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to automate compliance and governance and security stuff and then finally uh back at the us one there

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was the announcement of the uh the aria graph thing which was basically a way as far as i understand it to

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discover your network topology and start doing some cmdb ish stuff and there's a there's a freemium

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version of that that you can use and i think only works on aws and azure but that would be fun as a

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former person who read a bunch of itell books see see how uh see how that type of stuff is doing i used

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to get very excited is it oh yeah yeah i'm quite yeah but yeah your phrase of configuration management

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database brought back all those maybe it's a bit like single pane of glass isn't it everything will be

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there no it won't yeah yeah and uh and it you know i always i always took a lot of delight in uh doing

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snmp walks of my printers and home network and so it'd be fun to see how that that works out we were

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talking fun none of that is fun well this is back when i was a programmer so my definition of fun was

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a lot different and uh there's also uh you know if you want to go check out cindy's uh post you can

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see there's some updates to um uh the the bit nominee product we have which is the um the the tanzu

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marketplace or market uh if i recall the actual new name of it and also there's some sovereign cloud

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support which was a broader vmware explore topic uh just some uh some work with partners that we we

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have across vmware to run in your uh your regions instead of not running in your regions if if you're

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in if you're interested in sovereign cloud stuff do so so when when y'all when y'all hear the word

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sovereign cloud do you think of the monarchy because isn't that more of the uh the synonym for sovereign

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over there in the uk it's a specific person used to be i think yeah but we've had so many years of

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politicking about sovereignty and taking back control oh that's true yeah the word has been

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i want a cloud in my back garden please that's right the word has been reclaimed for how the rest of

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the world uses it well that's too bad anyhow uh so yeah did y'all did y'all uh you were at vmware

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explore ben how how was the other the unpublished part of the show being there it was amazing it was

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really really good um you know i wasn't sure what to expect my first uh vmware uh event so i wasn't

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quite sure what to expect but i was blown away by the quality of the conversations that we had

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um i did booth duty for for the whole uh sort of three days um did did many many hours on the booth

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and spoke to a ton of people and the level of interest was fantastic it was really really good

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so yeah you really get that at a booth you you get to see everyone while you're uh hanging out at the

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booth there we've lost them he's gone you've only lost my video i think yeah yeah i'll try and get

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that back while you're while you're talking but yeah it was uh it was incredible yeah it was really

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good and it was nice to see you as well i saw you there i even saw you around a table with some food on

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it loads of tapas yeah if i recall um tapas obviously basically every night uh seemed to be how it worked

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uh so we became very familiar with tapas menus uh as i'm sure uh you did as well and um it was nice to

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hang out yeah and spend some time with folks that we've not seen for such a long time so it was a it

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was also a really good uh sort of networking opportunity i think yeah it was nice get some meals with with

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people and uh other stuff now i didn't do an extensive i used to do these videos way back when during

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south by southwest where we would uh go around and find the best uh swag uh and do some reviews so i

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didn't get to do that tour however uh i i think there's only one type that i saw which i'm going

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to crown the best and that was at the lenovo booth there was a beer tap and uh it was it was one of those

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tiny like those tiny like uh south european beer cups that you get have you ever noted do we talk about

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this before where the further south you go the tinier the beer glasses get i think i think there's

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something uh something to that uh i mean they always have the large ones but the kind of like default

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is uh to give you that that little is this because really the further south you get you should be

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drinking wine yeah i think that's probably also related it's like a disincentive like you can have

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a thingle full of beer or you can have like a jug of wine or sangria or something yeah there's probably

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probably some people of port or something worse uh there's probably some some uh would it be

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a longitude there's probably some latitude or longitude whichever one is horizontal or some

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river and that's considered the beer wine divide i don't yeah somewhere somewhere probably sort of

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mid france isn't it maybe switzerland that kind of line uh germany you know bottom of germany something

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like that but uh the sangria as well oh good lord sangria was good yep yeah well anyways the lenovo booth

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had a beer tap so that was uh i think that was all you had to do is get your badge scanned and that kind

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of like conference badge scanning transaction is great where you just walk up and they give you a beer

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and they're like how's it going can i see your badge and then you're just like you know the people

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the marketing people back at uh back at headquarters are like wow great job look at all these leads

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works out well uh well also uh let's see in in the meantime uh outside of the vmware explore area

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uh i thought you know i was looking through uh your your collection of of of news ed and it looks like

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there is further uh you know stuff in the platform engineering backstage area red hat i think back at

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kubcon they announced that they're they're kind of like in on backstage joining that project and working

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on it and uh you know i think a few episodes ago i talked with uh talked with a few people uh at the

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front side which if you're listening to this in order you must have heard but if not you can go back

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in the archives and listen to it and uh i think also a significant milestone in the platform engineering

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think uh we it is passed through the previous way of thinking is dead uh news cycle which is good

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usually how that ends if you want to declare the your your predecessors dead is some of your

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predecessors show up and they're like uh it's kind of unfortunate that you're saying i was dead

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and that makes me feel bad and all the people put this energy into there and then the previous

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declare of the previous regime is dead it's like oh sorry about that and then everyone's friends

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and and we move on but uh have you seen any other interesting uh backstage or platform engineering

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stuff since last we talked ed um probably because there is a non-stop set of it um and i keep

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following down the rabbit hole if you find a good blog so you follow some links you find another good

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blog you find some more impact and particularly with that developer platform piece it means an awful

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lot of things to an awful lot of people so there's a quite big variety of things to link but the one i

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saw was around the working group stuff actually they did a wrap-up of sort of kubecon um and trying

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to i guess come up with some definitions of what and you know this being more generic cncf what should be in

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a developer platform um generic components and getting together lots of vendors things

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so it's kind of i like those mental frameworks i want to kind of read something and see does this

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one fit does that one fit um we can i'll send you the link we can put that in the show notes as well

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um but it was an interesting take i guess because otherwise a lot of them are a developer platform is

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what we are selling whereas this is this is we're trying to come up with what is everybody doing and

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how would they all fit some kind of taxonomy here's our thoughts and they've got an open dock

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at the minute anyone can go and contribute to and they're kind of working on first draft of coming

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up with some kind of report by the end of the year um so given that we've had tons of blog posts and

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conversations that seems like a nice place where it's all coalescing a little and you know there's

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another piece i wanted to ask you about i'm remembering now which is there was some post in the new

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stack i think that you highlighted that was going over like what cloud native is and uh i remember

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reading through it and to your point thinking like i think the cncf has a definition from like four or

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five years ago and so like we should just go with that and uh but i don't know there were like three

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or four i'll have to find that and dig it up but it's it was they're doing a glossary aren't they

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that was probably the one they're trying to come up with a glossary i guess to try and reclaim a few

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terms or at least stop everyone saying it means what i want it to mean yeah it's a bit like the

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definition of cloud forever ago who was it was it somebody did a definition of cloud back in the

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day in the three different dimensions and then that got debated for 15 years but it didn't change

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anything yeah and there was i'm sure i've made this joke before but then everyone forgets the fourth

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cloud the uh the community cloud i i think it was it was there somewhere but it just uh it got lost it

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went down it went to its own community and then it's not seen from again which ironically i guess

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was the intention of the community cloud uh yeah i think i think so maybe that's uh i'm that's the

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other thing i wanted to note is that i think i think i'm warming up to this term developer experience

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which i know for us was a big word over the past 12 18 months but i always felt like it was a little

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weird but i was i was talking with a friend recently and they said this kind of work that they do with

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other organizations they always he called them the uh the dx team and so i don't know if if if someone

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else is saying the dx team and that's what people call themselves maybe i should start saying develop

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possibly only citron doing that uh maybe they still have a dx team somewhere that keeps on the road

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i think it's okay to be a connoisseur of classics

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there is i don't i don't know which which citron it is but there's a a really nice like 80s vintage

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one in the neighborhood here somewhere i think there's someone in my neighborhood who's into old cars

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because there is there's like a late 70s like you know ford f-150 pickup truck that i see a lot

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then there's that citron that i see a lot and then there's also i've seen this recently there is like

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the stereotypical 80s camaro that that they drive around sometimes and it's i don't i don't know i

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need to find out i should leave a note and be like could we get lunch and i'm i think the jersey

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equivalent of that is that there is a i don't know sort of a vintage tractor association and it's a

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small island right and i think twice a year they all go out and they just sort of drive around the

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island and they're great they're the really old slow tractors i guess within reason no cab or anything

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else you know just driver sat on top of it with a wheel and when you see one they are kind of cool

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looking and then you get like 30 of them in a row winding around these little lanes it's not you know

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race cars or anything else but there is something quite cool about these old tractors without the

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massive wheels off two tiny front wheels no cabin or anything yeah we have the same thing here at

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uh it's like the old massy fergusons and that sort of thing and also they do it in steam they go back

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and bring out the steam tractors and do whole kind of shows and stuff it's amazing really good really

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really really beautiful machines really cool but i like them yeah it's totally impractical and then

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and then you can have the the two-hour event how we used to make uh a board uh which i'm sure was

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exciting you mean like a cpu board like uh exactly in silicon valley that's a printed circuit board from

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from uh from uh from lumber to printed circuit boards uh a short history of boards

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well as as just a brief mention you know uh they're also i think the uh the gartner magic

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quadrant for what what do they call it ed cloud infrastructure or something yeah i think it's

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cloud ios and paz isn't it i can't yeah that's that's that's what i rewrote the title

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they've published another magic quadrant and all the big clouds alike and we're all there at the top

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yeah is anyone's prize not really yeah i wonder how long before they stop doing that one well there

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there's there you know i think all of the people in the in positions they like you can go to their

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websites for free and download it i think i'll put a link to the one uh at google uh that you can get

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but yes to your point it you do look at it and it's one of the uh the more you know it looks like

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winter came early because there's a lot of snow in that magic quadrant just a lot of white space i

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don't know if that joke worked but you know i thought i'd try it out but i you know it looks

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like a map of antarctica on a small scale there you go but they they tell you you're not supposed

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to rank things based off the quadrant however i went and ranked them i eyeballed the ranking

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as if if you drew uh you know a line from the bottom left to the right where the positions that it

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would fall and it looks like it looks like you got aws azure google alibaba oracle ibm tencent and

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huawei uh at the end so that's that's what you got going on there uh but you know you can check that

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out i didn't actually read the analysis i just looked at the chart uh to see what was going on there

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and then you know i think i think uh we should probably there's all sorts of crazy stuff going

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on in the community with respect to where lots of conversation has happened over the past 15 however

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many years and that is the the the the the thrilling joy ride going on over there at twitter now now

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whenever it comes to discussing this obviously since there's so many like layoffs and weird pathological

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situations like uh that's that's no good from a human perspective uh but then it also is uh you know

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not to say that aside but with that acknowledged uh there is plenty it's it's uh it's a rare example

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because it's so public of seeing a bunch of uh digital transformation and devopsy and cloud native

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stuff put to the test in a negative way like do we actually need these things uh but what uh you know

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what what have you been paying attention to there ben well it's like chaos monkey personified isn't it i mean

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it's like let's just go and pull pull out various plugs and things and see what happens as basically chaos

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engineering but uh but but top down i don't know it's a it's a tire fire it it's absolutely awful i feel

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really bad for the uh for the engineers in in that particular uh business right now i tweeted about

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this as well i've seen it before it's so boring it's like totally predictable um i've seen it before

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you know new person comes in creates a crisis says they're the only person who can fix it because they're a genius

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then they can't fix the crisis then it's everybody else's fault then they leave and everybody's left to sort of pick up the pieces

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it's we've seen it hundreds of times before this is nothing new there is no genius here it's just

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a race to the bottom you know uh and then whatever's left do you even want to be a part of it i'm

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questioning whether i'm going to use twitter anymore i'm sort of like i'm bored of it i'm over it i wonder

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if it's time to move on and i'm sure there's a lot of other folks feel that way and um yeah i think

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there's a there's a lack of empathy for for for you know what what it's like to do engineering on this

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sort of scale i don't think any of the other businesses really have the same problems so trying

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to apply the same methods to fix it probably won't work it does feel a bit is it chesterton's fence i

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think it is you might remember this you know that that the idea that you walk up somewhere there's

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a fence in the middle of a road where it shouldn't be and you're like well why what's that doing there

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take that out and they're like no actually figure out why someone put it there in the first place

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it might be there for a reason and it is that tendency like you said to just come in and go well

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this is silly isn't it we should obviously have people playing for a blue tick mark put that in

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oh you didn't put it in because it doesn't work okay take it back out then all right that was did you

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see all the false tweets and stuff false brands and things like oh my word you know in some ways

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it's sort of reassuring i mean like does twitter need to shake up maybe um there was an interesting

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post i can't remember the chap's name now but he runs 37 signals um in an h which won't help you at

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all and you'll find him with a quick google but anyway he had an interesting post around it sort of

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putting it in a bit of context and other times when similar things have happened to a good effect

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um and saying you know we all think musk is being a bit of an idiot around it but he does at least

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have pedigree of running some good businesses whether he runs them well or not i have no idea

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you know but does he just drive people harder does he just say it can be done and when it works it's

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great but if it fails it's gonna look awful um and twitter is very very public um so i guess it's just

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the public nature of that bigger change on something that touches everybody and therefore you know a lot

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of people i know everyone used twitter but a lot of people like and i'm i'm the same i used to use

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twitter a lot kind of drop topics it went a bit toxic anyway i'd like something to change i guess

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because i'd pretty much stopped using it anyway um will it get better or worse if it gets worse at

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this point i'm not too fussed i spent years building up a bit of a following or it happened i didn't build

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it consciously but it's a bit of a shame i don't use many other social networks anymore um and i've

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seen sort of some talk about mastodon but that all seems to be the sort of the very tech people look

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at that for everyone else it just seems to be a bit too complicated and just wouldn't really work

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um so if it's not there is it it's just one less i guess um yeah it'd be interesting to see where

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it goes you know who knows maybe it'll work out better i think on the point about the other

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businesses though if you look at the other businesses you know the ones that still involved

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with solar city tesla spacex all have a very grand vision about what they want to do you know

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solar city space and tesla work together very well it's all about that kind of sustainable engineering

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spacex is about expanding our reach and making you know space more accessible what the hell has

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twitter got to do with any of this it doesn't have a grand scheme the grand scheme seems to be let's

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burn it to the ground so your grand scheme should be can we get everyone collaborating without the

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toxicity can you turn it into a positive conversation right which was you said what what evidence is that

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toxicity toxicity is something they're trying to remove i don't know i'm not saying there is i'm

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saying that should be the vision should be yeah but not when they first started that was kind of what

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what everyone liked about the social media it hooked you up and you only got the good bits and then they

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got full of junk accounts and everything else so it could still be a grand vision of actually if you

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could harness everyone everywhere to do good stuff then they're brilliant platforms i i've no idea if

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that is the intention um you know i guess we can give the benefit of the doubt and say must have

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visions of wanting to make things better in different ways whether you would agree with them maybe but

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this seems like the odd one out the others are all engineering businesses um you know even the trains

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in a tube thing you know has a point this doesn't seem to have a point yeah and then you know that's

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well you you you two have brought up two interesting things like one i you know i hadn't thought of the

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obvious thing you were saying ben of like you know this is the the same pattern you could call it the uh you know the uh uh i don't know the crisis driven

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chesterson's fence demolition right where you you got to come up with some like crisis to do something

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and then uh and then you leave and everyone has to rebuild the fence and they're like oh i don't know

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how this is different than the fence we already had it was working pretty well you're all this is also the

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second time in 30 days i've heard a chesterson's fence reference which is i i don't know i don't know what

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i'm doing with my life that i've heard it twice uh but i'm doing it uh and and then and then uh you

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know there's also the uh the the not having a uh or or having a grand plan and what it should be that's

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also interesting to think of in the sense of maybe that's why there's all this rotating on like well why

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don't we just you know solve international money transfers with twitter like you know you got to

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come up with some big ambition ambitious thing but i wonder like you mean like paypal yeah exactly

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yeah like i wonder if you know one of one of the things in uh i i i talk about with people who are

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trying to get better at software who are trying to eat the software or whatever is that you do need

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like some kind of urgency and and i guess another type of urgency is like something big to do and so

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there is there is sort of a question of like yeah what do you do when you run out of urgency

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like there's no more like big grand thing to pursue and then the on the other hand the other side of

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that which which i was thinking about maybe yesterday is uh you know at late like you were saying ed

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i i mean i've used twitter for like 16 years and i and i feel like probably it's been directly

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responsible for all sorts of good stuff mostly in my career that's happened in my life i can't think

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of bad stuff it's been responsible for but one doesn't like to poke the bear when it comes to that

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uh but like it also like if if we didn't have twitter there wouldn't really be like 24 hour urgency to

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anything anymore we would just have to like wait for the newsletters to come out or for someone to

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send us an email or rss feeds yeah yeah i guess i guess but there would be urgency inside groups but

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maybe not this sort of like global urgency we we might like i don't know if we'll ever break out of

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the the the the 24 hour cycle but like we'll get closer and closer to like the economist urgency we're

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just like i don't know i can wait till next week it's cool don't need to know what's going on but

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i i think most billionaires just basically buy i don't know a bugatti or something and then smash

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it into a tree but but instead we're buying businesses and smashing those into trees instead

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it's just it's the same cycle repeating surely well i'm i'm looking forward to the uh the the next

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meeting usually the trope is like you know we want to run like google or uh or facebook or whatever and

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hopefully someone will say soon we want to run like uh you know the big tech companies except twitter

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we don't want to run like twitter that that would that would be fun to hear in some little executive

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soire about digital transformation uh stuff well also uh we came out with our state of uh state of supply

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chain open source edition uh survey did y'all get a chance to uh look at that yeah i'd had a sneak

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peek at that and um it was good that it was it was nice to see that survey repeated again and uh you

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know across a wide sort of range of businesses of different sizes responding to that turns out that

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devs go faster and they're more productive with a supply chain which is um a good validation i think of

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many of the things that we've been talking about recently um i was uh fortunate enough to co-present

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a talk at explore which was about um supply chains in part um i'll put a link in the show notes for

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that um but yeah it was good i think it's a good survey it's definitely worth reading and we can link

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to that as well can't we in the show notes if people want to have a look at the survey they can for sure

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and a new product as well a tamage tanzu image builder uh which is about sort of packaging open

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source amongst other things uh so that you can uh you know use them confidently in your organization

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and get some of that kind of code confidence back uh which is a something i'm thinking about a lot

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at the moment as well code confidence that's yeah that sounds like a good youtube short get your code

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confidence back it is and i want to do it like the old there's a song isn't there kissing with

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confidence i want to do it like that but coding with confidence instead i think that would be

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hilarious you know the the piano songs recently was that really good one wasn't there's few of those

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there should be a contract service by now that's you know i need my it rap can you do one for me please

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yeah so yeah i'm pretty i want to suggest maybe ben uh i want to just just give you a bit of a stretch

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goal maybe you could record a theme song for our podcast because you know we don't have any music

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and uh that could be says since you're since it sounds like you're going to be moving into uh

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singing advice for programmers and that that is to say not advice about singing but you will be singing the

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advice no i think you misunderstand i was looking for some budget to go find someone to record something

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you really don't want to listen to this i promise you that it's not gonna happen

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for all the right reasons as well yeah you don't want that well fair enough well uh i i uh uh i don't

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well i i did a little video which i'll have to upload to our youtube but it's on a uh uh a tech news

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website kind of going over my my part of what i thought was interesting from from that supply

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chain study the open source thing which is basically just as you were noting ben i think

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you summarized it better is just like you know there's it's no big mystery that most everyone

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uses open source and actually if you do look at the results it's only like two or three percent of

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people who don't use open source because i think there's maybe like 90 of people who weren't using

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open source but a large part of that leftover 10 are people who are currently making their policy

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or haven't deployed their code yet so there's there's actually a very small percentage who are

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just i don't know who these people are like they must not be using linux but there's some some people

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maybe they do like industrial control systems or something where they've written everything from the

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ground up to like you know move a robot arm that installs watch parts or something uh but anyhow to

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your point might be linux yeah maybe embedded linux though wouldn't it it's like yeah i i can't think

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either it's like who's so invested on well you'd like like i think because i think web os was open

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sourced and then there's like q emu or something yeah yeah but i think that's open sourced yeah right

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so like all all these little like embedded os's i i don't know and then well maybe like the core of

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mainframe stuff isn't open sourced so if you've got like a unisys box somewhere i don't know but even

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then probably like some tools who knows i forget what i was basically you need a supply chain to handle all

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that so you don't have to worry about it but don't even browsers contain a whole bunch isn't there

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like open source license pages on the browser about pages and stuff like there must be so

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yeah yeah anyways odd well i think uh are there any other news uh we should go over i think i think

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in this episode we had a good cleaning out here there's a whole bunch of links to dig into more

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details that uh you the listener if you're watching us stream this live you can go to if you go to

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tonsutalk.com and you can find this episode uh you can dig into but is there anything else uh we should

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mention before we close out well like if we're all you know if folks do desert twitter like a sinking

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ship then where are they going to maybe they could tell us in the comments and uh tell us where they're

373
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going to i guess mastodon's very popular i know you had a little uh play about with it recently didn't

374
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you michael is that right yeah yeah i set up a a mastodon thing sure you know as as you do when there's some

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new uh i think i think i think like right as you get the early adopters there whatever is before

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the chasm that's when you always got to go sign up and squat your name and check things out i i like

377
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to think of it as the sort of the the wild west you know the the migration west in the us where it's

378
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like go and get your plot of land yeah yeah i mean there was there was a point where ohio was the wild west

379
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i think and so you know just there's some american geography for you check out ohio but uh good good

380
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place i think that's i think no that's that's is it cincinnati where they put cinnamon on their chili

381
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:06,560
or something weird oh that sounds nice have you ever had that you know you know the chili as in like

382
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uh ground or as you would say minced meat uh that's been seasoned with uh with stuff and then i think i'm

383
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:17,440
pretty sure they put cinnamon on it in cincinnati yeah i've definitely had uh i've definitely had

384
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something like that before yeah it's good but um but yeah not not so much the minced meat being you

385
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:29,360
know trying to be good and plant-based and all that oh sure you can you can have just bean chili you

386
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,320
don't have to put that exactly oh such a good bean chili just don't just whatever you do don't put a

387
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any type of squash or uh as as we would say in the states a zucchini in there because you're just going

388
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to end up with mush and uh if you want mush that's delicious make some lentils and uh that that'll be

389
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:52,720
better well we record this at 11 a.m amsterdam time 10 a.m your time when that means that i can go

390
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:59,040
eat lunch now after all that food talk which is uh which is great yes well done yeah i cannot eat

391
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lunch for another hour and 20 minutes but we are thinking about it so thanks very much i'm in my

392
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,680
must lose a bit of weight before christmas so i can put it all back on again

393
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,880
well maybe maybe next time i i started speaking of that i've started thinking about my relationship to

394
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:22,400
my past and my future self and i think maybe that is a good uh you know thinking about my future self

395
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:27,040
wanting to eat a lot during christmas you should tell me you can give me some therapy about that next

396
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:33,920
episode how i can contact my my future self just as a preview the theory i'm developing is that if you

397
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have three selves your future self your present self and your past self i think it's very confusing

398
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:45,520
what you do about your past self because it's immutable so it's just like why bother right like

399
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,840
and i've come up with i think five different things you can do about your past self but i'm not really

400
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,000
sure there's there's just like it's not useful it's kind of like it's kind of like you know there's

401
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,680
always like those those uh three to fifteen uh utensils you have in your kitchen drawers and you're

402
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,640
like i don't know why i have this i don't ever do anything with it like there's i could do something

403
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:12,000
like when am i ever going to want to spiral cut a cucumber so why do i have this like i think i think

404
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,040
you're thinking about it all wrong you know the world has changed politicians now do not think that

405
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:26,560
the past is immutable oh there you go around well i'll tell you that perspective i'll tell you one

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thing that's immutable listeners is if you've listened this far you can't change what happened

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unless you have a time machine but i'm sure it was enjoyable and uh if if you don't subscribe to

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00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:40,880
this podcast already you should go to tonsutalk.com and figure out how to subscribe we we also live

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stream these each week and you can check on that and with that we'll see everyone next time bye bye