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well for our podcast this week you know we stream these things uh as well we have a video version

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they get uploaded to our vmware tonsu page we're gonna we're gonna try some uh we're gonna push

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the limits of the audio only format uh ben and that is we're gonna have you share your screen

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as we talk about the most exciting conference of the year the SpringOne conference which is

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december 6th to 8th now we're gonna this is this we're gonna kind of move up the expertise level

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of podcasting where even though we'll have a visual we're going to not rely on it to communicate

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the vital information that the listeners need but it's it's sort of like you know uh it's sort of

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like an extra pizza topping that that you can add on optionally if uh if uh that that doesn't work

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i'm gonna abandon that metaphor and just move on but it is an enhanced enhancement that we can have

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so for those who don't know this is on youtube so you'll find us on the vmware tanzu youtube

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channel uh that's where it normally gets posted to right Coté exactly if you just go to tanzutalk.com

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and you'll find a link to the video and uh and then after we go over a little bit of what's uh

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going on at SpringOne we'll uh as as we often do hopefully every time uh we'll go over some

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interesting news items and uh a little bit of stuff the the fun news and trend stuff uh that's that's

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happening out there but before that so we do have uh coming up this december in san francisco

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you know i i don't know how many years we've been doing the SpringOne conference but many uh and uh

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you know as as i i like to say it's got your developer stuff your operations things and then also

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your um i don't know managerial enterprise architect executive stuff like tales of people uh reprogramming

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their business and and how they're doing that sort of work and uh this year i i think things have uh

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been going pretty well as far as the planning uh you know just to get it out of the way

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i have a talk on on on a new topic uh that i i've been we finally published this i should put a link

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to it because i think there's a way at the moment uh where you can download this pdf uh called the

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legacy trap that my uh co-author mark zartner and i worked on and i don't think you even have to give

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us your email address it's gate ungated as people say i think maybe there is a support ticket somewhere

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to put a gate up but until that ticket is in effect you can get it uh for free which you know it is nice

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but it's also cool to get like credit for uh for uh lead genning and things like that but whatever

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we have a talk uh that basically is just our overview of of the legacy trap thing and and the premise of

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that that that talk is basically like here's the methodology that people in in um in uh in tanzu labs

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and other people have come up with i don't know maybe over the past at least five years to kind of

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sort out like what you should modernize how to pick things out to modernize and then even if you're

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going into re-architecting and rewriting some kind of like day or so long processes to go through to

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kind of get a handle on how would we break up this application and uh kind of start to uh actually

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modernize it right as as opposed to like i think maybe the classic method of modernization which is

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like hey developers you should go move this to a new platform and you know not really having a lot

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of strategic input into it so that will be fun to give with mark and you know i also don't know if

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i've ever seen mark in person which would be delightful to to see however that is just one talk out of

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many many uh talks that we have how to escape the legacy track a proven strategy for application

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modernization i'll let the listeners uh who aren't watching the stream uh play a little game

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leave us a comment and tell us where you think the colon is in that sentence uh and that'll be a good

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a good grammar check uh but what's the uh you know what's the structure of the conference that we have

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here right ben i gave an idea of kind of like three broad topics but how are we uh how are we corralling

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all these these talks into kind of like tracks and things like that what are the the themes

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well i think if you can if you're going to talk about the structure it's important to talk about

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the structure of the whole thing so the very first thing that happens day zero if you like

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is the kind of workshop day so there's a lot of workshops on that day we'll come back to that in a

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second and then uh on the actual um schedule itself if you have a look uh at the breakout session so you

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click on uh schedule uh up at the top here and then you click on uh breakout sessions for wednesday

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december the 7th then you can see all the uh breakouts and there are uh one two three four six tracks

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seven tracks biggest deal i think is the fact that the beginner friendly spring track has returned and

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will i think it i think it's really popular and i love it because it's the place that i go to first

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to find out about how to get started with all the new stuff that they're adding into spring so you know

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if they add a new thing around i don't know observability or metrics or whatever there's

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usually some sort of talk there that you'll find in the beginner friendly track that will give you all

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the sort of tips that you need to just get up and running and get started so that's my favorite track

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by far and this year i know it's bigger than ever so there's a whole bunch of stuff in that particular

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track and and i guess i guess it's worth i for whatever reason i guess i'm always trying to uh

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generalize and widen uh the SpringOne conference but like you know as is in the name right there

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there's a whole lot about the spring framework right so like i think you know if if if you're

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doing like java development and i think especially like i was talking with someone yesterday about

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this i don't know what people call enterprise java development anymore but you know java development

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for business things i i don't know like it's uh it seems like a huge amount of what goes on at spring

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one is is catered for uh for those types of developers who just want to you know not just but want to keep

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up with what's going on in spring in the java world and practices it's a really good developer

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conference in in that aspect yes i would say it's not tilted towards someone who wants to write

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minecraft in java uh it's it's more tilted towards someone who wants to you know uh probably works for

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a business of some kind wants to solve business problems or has a has a particular innovation or

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or itch that they want to scratch and they want a framework that's going to help them do that

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with the least toil possible and yet be able to address the sort of broadest range possible so

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that's where where springs really in its uh in its sweet spot and then uh well there there's also like

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uh with with the history of the conference there's plenty of things about like you know as as you can

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see in the topics there'll be some talks about cloud foundry plenty plenty of talks about like

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operations things like working uh you know doing you know kind of platforms to have another to vague

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eyes and generalize the term for it right whatever whatever that stack of software you're building up

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whether it's on top of a cloud foundry or a kubernetes or whatever that your developers then

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then use to deploy and run their applications yeah there's tons of stuff in here i mean you just click

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on any one of these and already i'm getting excited so for example there's a there's a talk in the

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platform and stacks track uh from netflix about how netflix really uses java today now netflix has

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always been the poster child of things like spring cloud for example so to hear the very latest about

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how they're still utilizing spring and how they're using it today and how their use of it has changed

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that's really exciting that would definitely be one that i would probably put on my uh bucket list

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uh for for SpringOne but then it's not all sort of like beginners and big tech companies either

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there's also this intermediate and advanced spring track so if you really already deep in the weeds on

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something there's probably a talk in here that you'll find really interesting that will help you

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get even deeper and be able to converse with the the experts who write this stuff i mean let's not

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forget the folks who are speaking are usually also the ones who are behind the scenes doing an awful lot

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of the code that gets contributed to the open source spring framework so um there's loads of opportunities

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to meet folks uh that you'll recognize from um past uh uh advances in spring folks like uh sam brannan

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there matt rabel and uh josh long and others they're all gonna have talks at SpringOne so i i think uh

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there's a lot to commend about this there's tons to get excited about so i i over the years i've i've done

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uh a lot more work than i did this year kind of helping out with the um i don't know like the agile

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leadership kind of case studies track and uh i've done a little bit of work now an embarrassingly small

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amount for uh supposed to have been involved more i guess however like like i think you know in in

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looking at in in that track kind of people telling the stories of what they've been doing uh i think

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you know what we try to curate in that kind of track are again in kind of like a more you know not

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although the story of how someone modernized like the minecraft monolith would probably be pretty

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interesting you know if you there's there's a lot of like you know you've got a extremely mature code

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base that has a huge user base like revenue they need to worry about and uh changing things you know

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changing the engines while the plane is flying there probably are a lot of opinions they have to sort

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through conflicting technology uses based on who they're owned by and what they might want to use

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like you've probably got everything and then you've got customer data and things to worry about not to

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mention like a bunch of kids doing stuff so you've got to protect them so that probably would be a

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fascinating enterprise use case that would bring in all the things that like a bank insurance company

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or military would care about maybe we'll try to recruit them for next year however

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when it comes to those things that they are like in the more the business world uh you know like

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historically we've had we've had stories um you know there's over the years we've had all sorts of

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stories from uh like insurance companies militaries banks manufacturers like i'm thinking i was re-watching

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some from uh the mercedes people from a couple years ago about how they had we didn't by we

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people didn't use the term platform engineering back then instead we would say platform as a product or

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just platform but it goes over uh at mercedes like how they came across the need to have a platform

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kind of identifying why they needed to build a platform to support uh at the time that like the

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mercedes me application the little app that uh i don't know is your cars app there must be a name

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for that kind of app all cars have apps now uh but uh how they needed that and kind of like the lessons

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learned and how they were supporting developers this is all on top of at the time pivotal cloud

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foundry now tons of application service but there are several talks like that where you know there's

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the the structure that i like in these stories is basically like our business needed to our

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organization i'll just say business needed to do something uh and the stack that we had and the way

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that we use that stack wasn't up for it so we had to put a new stack in place and a new way of doing

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software in place and it'd be great if i had examples prepared of the talks that we have uh this year

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for that but there are several in there that i'm looking forward to uh having read over them

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i i think it's brilliant i'm looking i'm flicking around as people can see if they're following us

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on youtube you know and just having a look at a few uh a few talks but some of these titles are

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really good who should use kubernetes yes what a great talk title right oh yes from whitney on my

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team hopefully she'll bring her giant light board and uh and go over uh you know lightboarding stuff

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so there's tons of stuff here but also part of the schedule like i said is the workshops the

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workshops if you can get signed up for the workshops which do have a limited number of places but if you

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can get signed up for them you are going to have a really good time for example better path to

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production with spring boot instructors josh long at tiffany jernigan i mean you can't get better

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instructions on that uh from the right from better people than uh than those two on how to get to

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production with spring boot so so there's tons of stuff here i know as well uh my friend adib has

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also got a a session here we go increased developer productivity with spring and vmware tanzo application

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platform there's tons of really good workshops so if you like you know to actually learn something

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while you're at a conference you know deep dive spend a few hours on something get yourself signed

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up for a workshop they're on uh they're on the day zero of the conference and you'll you'll uh really

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enjoy those i think so yeah question for you go ahead yeah because i've looked too much at SpringOne

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despite the fact i'm sure i should have is that all in person and virtual i'm assuming everything is

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hybrid now but i know in some conferences things like workshops are in person only that kind of thing

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is this all virtual can anyone do it my the to the best of my knowledge it's all in person

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okay interesting so that's pretty good because the hybrid thing you know in some scenarios like a

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learning scenario it's been a bit hit and miss for the folks in the room right so you committed you got

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to go you got to go cool yeah i mean i have to i'd love to go back to in conferences to in person

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but you said that that ability to focus for your week your four days five days however long it is

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and especially for things like workshops which is i think why flagged in my head of actually you're

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in a room nothing else to worry about nobody's saying hang on do this that the other while you're at work

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still you know that'd be priceless yeah that you know i was thinking about that i mean to to to

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preview a little ahead maybe like there's uh there was there was this platform engineering conference

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called platform con and i think it was all online and so uh i i went to their videos and i was like

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ah i should just sit down and watch most of those videos and then i thought like man that's going to

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be so hard to like force myself to like be in a conference mindset to uh to not do other work

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because i'm at work instead of at a conference but i don't know maybe maybe i can make it happen

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we'll we'll we'll find out and uh yeah i mean back to SpringOne uh i mean like you're saying there's

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all sorts of uh great speakers people that we have it'll it'll be good i think i think uh as i get

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more of a view into like what we're doing on the main stage and things like that it'll be fun to uh

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to to talk about and preview that as as as we go towards that i don't know sometimes people like to be

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all secretive about what's on the main stage like for whatever reason uh but we'll we'll see what's

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what's uh what's possible so you know if you're interested in that it's it's really uh you know

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we've got i think we have most of the sessions posted but not all of them if i remember

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and uh so if you go to SpringOne dot io and you click on schedule and then you click on breakout

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sessions you can start looking through what those sessions are and those tracks and organized and

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like ben was saying there's workshops to go through and uh in addition to the sessions types of sessions

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we were talking about a pretty good uh infra like educational event and also just kind of finding out

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what's going in the industry and the chance to like you know talk with people and hang out and get all

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that uh what's the word serendipitous is that right the uh unplanned for good things that happen

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i think that's that's uh otherwise it would be called what would be the opposite of serendipitous

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accidents i think uh accidents are really serendipitous i'll have to go look this up in my as my dad

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would say funken wagnall and uh and and see what it says what was when y'all were uh you know in your

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teens over there over there uh and in the uh the united kingdom england britain i don't want to make

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that mistake of mixing them all up but over there on the islands uh like what what was the uh did you

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have like the rogers and the funken wagnall what was like the jokey dictionary that everyone like used

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and referred to oh that's a good question uh doofa is the only thing i remember doofa was like

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anything you wanted it to be okay that's good tv remote but you know it ended up being generic

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because you know because you know by design american dictionaries are very anti-uk

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right like i think i think the because isn't it isn't isn't webster like webster and franklin

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their original thing was like we need to have american english and so that's that's how they like

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came up with all these american word you know americanized versions of english and things like

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that so it would lead it would make me assume that there must be like english england english

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dictionaries that are still like patriotic to the original language versus like us crazy americans who

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don't know how to spell things that have you know like we just like why don't we just use a z

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let's let's get some use out of that that character

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i'm sure there is it's in the oxford dictionary you would think that would still be the the epitome

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of the british one but i've no idea if it is or not i mean none of us actually use the dictionary

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anymore right now it's whatever's built into word which is produced by an american company so

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ah yes default to us however many times i said it back to uk somewhere somewhere i's not

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configured it and it's still us finally finally franklin and webster victorious by accident

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yeah however you can also just do the language the the the variant settings so maybe not maybe maybe

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they who knows well maybe maybe a listener knows and they can write in and tell us or or dissuade me

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of my cockamamie uh retconning of dictionary history which sounds thrilling anyhow uh yeah but if you

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want to look into those sessions you can go to spring1.io and uh i think you know as we're going over

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there's a lot in there especially if you're a java developer but also if you're just in an organization

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looking to figure out how to get better at software interested in all the uh the container

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stuff out there the cloud stuff and uh you know as you may know when you register at spring1.io

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you can use the code cote200 to get 200 off registration which you can then use

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to buy some burritos or or whatever you like you know if you're in san francisco and you don't live

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there normally especially if you're from out of the country you want to when you go to san francisco

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you want to get what they call a mission burrito which basically people would call a burrito nowadays

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uh it's just one of those gigantic if you were to make a fist out of both hands and stack them on top

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of each other it's a little bit bigger than that and uh it's a gigantic tasty burrito depending on what

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you like to eat but you could take that two hundred dollars and boy you could get a super fancy burrito

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for two hundred two hundred dollars uh depending on what the exchange rate is uh at the time uh but

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if you go to spring1.io you can register and use the code cote200 uh to get two hundred dollars off now

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there were many other conferences since uh last time we talked i think uh it looks like hashi conf had a

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conference the uh the ebpf uh summit sessions were online there's the kong summit like uh what let's just

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pick a you know what what are your highlights from these conferences ed what uh did uh so were they fun

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question i guess so the hashi corp one i thought was probably the sort of the most high profile one of

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those um a bunch of product announcements as you would expect to kind of vault and boundary and console

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their various service mesh and i mean everyone knows terraform right um the one thing probably i mean

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the one thing i always think with ash corp is they do a very good job of both engaging community

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iterating all these products and they are all kind of easy to get started with it's something they seem to

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have focused on red monk put out a blog about the conference and that was one of their takeaways

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was that simplicity and ease of use has always been sort of a key feature for them

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and certainly with things like their service mesh product um service mesh has a history of being

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or a reputation should i say for being complex um and hash corp have definitely aimed at their sort of

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differentiation being simple to use and obviously they've now got hash port cloud platform and they've

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a lot of the new features were around use of that so again more sas based again making things quicker and

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easier to use i can't say any one of the sort of the product announcements really made me go wow that

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looks astounding which is not you know not a do on them at all it's just there was no thunder and

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lightning moment in any way um but little by little they're putting together a nice cohesive set of

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products all kind of work together um so just have a look at the site they've got a whole bunch of blog

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posts about all the various feature announcements in all the different products i'd have a review of

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those myself um the ebpf one my only thing that struck me with that is i wanted to go and watch a

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load of it um and the the sessions are up and online but and maybe it's just a time thing they are

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literally day one here's a five-hour recording day two here's a five-hour recording all right you know

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it's like you said oh it wasn't spliced up yeah and set aside two days but i can't so i kind of want

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that here's the the keynote here's this session here's that one oh i can squeeze 40 minutes in

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especially at one and a half time speed um five hours was a no um but i said that may be a

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expedite of things tick it up day one and then carve it up in sessions later on

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i take it there's no chapter titles then because that's so easy to do with youtube when you post a

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video like sticking your chapter titles on there they could have done that at least surely

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they might have right all i did i went on and it said here are the sessions and they were they

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sort of badged up as day one day two and i went to day one and i saw the slider and it was you know

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five hours and i was like oh no then that was a maybe there were breakouts to it and easier ways

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to index it or something but i'd looked and i just thought right you know i think it was

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liz rice doing the keynote and i thought well she's always good to listen to i'll go and listen to a

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keynote and then saw that and thought i you know maybe later just because it didn't feel like a bite

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sized chunk that i could probably it's just literally thinking day one was five hours not you know i can

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make 20 minutes to listen to that yes i'll do it um it's it's probably more of a reflection on me than

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them but there we go yeah you know the the the various devops days is devops days in whatever they uh

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they used to do it a lot more but they every now and then there's still some that will do that because

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what they do is obviously well not obviously they stream the events right and then and then so those

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videos are actually like the save streams that they have and then some weeks later after the conference

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organizers have like you know had a good nap i think they they do come back and slice them up but

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yeah it is kind of funny when yeah that's that's always a good situation where there's like a five

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hour block and then as a speaker i'm often like ah of course i want to show off some work that i did

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and you know i know how to make a bookmark that starts you at like you know two hours and 42 minutes

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but still it's kind of like weird to be like check out this talk in this five hour block of stuff but

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that reminds me ben since you then maybe for people who watch this care did you since you're such a big

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star on youtube did you see that they have they have they have a new they have a new thing called a

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handle and there it's everyone's going to be able to get a handle right uh but not everyone at once

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that some somehow they're going to notify you when you can register for your handle so potentially i'll

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probably never be able to get this but in i could get you know at Coté as i have in most other services

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and you know you can just say at and then you can refer to people instead of using like

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you know the channel id that i have is uh from my my original podcast drunk and retired which is

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probably not great as james governor told me when he hired me at red monk to use in a professional

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capacity despite the the greatness of of the uh the content mostly because you're neither

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yeah well that's that's true we that when i when i made up that uh that that domain name

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in college the person i was talking with like our joke was like those are two things to aspire to and

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you can always have one of them and and so like it's it's it's uh you know half possible dreams uh

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if you if you're looking to achieve your dreams yes yes so these handles are going to be like the blue

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tick marks on twitter are they where you've got to have you know 50 000 followers minimum to actually

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be a public person and qualify or something well you you can anyone can get a handle once they tell you

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you can get it and i think it's over the next two weeks they're rolling it out it's not a verified

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thing but it's just so that like you know i mean it's it's a little odd because they already have

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channel names you can set up yeah i don't know it's just a new thing how many handles per channel then

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or do you not get handles per channel do you get one handle i think i think it's one handle per channel

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that's that's the distinction is this refers to your channel not you i i think well whatever that was

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our youtube star corner for this episode youtube tip of the day hey but while we're talking about it

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Coté i do have a new video on youtube right now uh oh yes uh deploy your python apps to uh safely to

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production uh so go check it out oh yeah that would that would be nice i'll have to i'll have to look

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that up do you think do you think it's worth my time one day in the future like learning python ben

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is that something i should do i think uh i think you should learn the language that you find the most

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interesting because um you know it's like anything in life if you if you if you if you have an interest

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in something it doesn't feel like a chore it feels it feels like a pleasure right so yeah yeah i get i guess

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i asked that inaccurately like like like like i i think the only reason nowadays i would invest time

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in learning a language is as if it was if if i could like use it often just for like quick utilitarian

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functions that i needed right and i feel like a lot of what i would be doing is like manipulating and doing

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tech stuff and like merging things around and like you know i guess i could go relearn pearl but that

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doesn't seem like a thing one would do it seems like if you're like doing numbers and characters and

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simple stuff like that that python is what you would learn plus it's ubiquitous and everywhere

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yeah you're dead right python's got a huge reputation as being a very sort of you know pliable language you

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can you can wire together all sorts of things um from video to you know artificial intelligence to

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machine learning to just doing a spreadsheet you know whatever whatever it is that you want to do

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it's one of those languages where you can probably do it and it probably won't kill you to do it either

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which is also nice and then and then of course you can deploy it securely and safely absolutely to

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production uh which is the the the content of my uh my latest uh video yeah so go check it out

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we'll put it in the show notes well i think i think there's two more things uh i i wanted to go over

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before we wrap up one is that the uh everyone's favorite the uh state of devops report the google

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state of devops report or accelerate is out recently and uh i i i talked about this on on uh we talked

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about a little bit on my other podcast software defined talk last week where i fully admitted i

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haven't read it yet but let's talk about it uh which which is sort of like and now i think i've read

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some of it i've skimmed through it and i didn't realize it was 77 pages and as someone who writes 70

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to 80 page things i'm not making fun of it i just need to invest some time in skimming through it uh but

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you know it looks like there's a there's a pretty deep focus on uh security in there and i think also um

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you know what's interesting what's one of the the key things that's interesting about the devops report

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is trying to draw some sort of uh i'm i'm i'm no statistician or however you say that but trying to

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draw some sort of causation correlation between behaviors and the performance and success of the

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organizations who do them and i think i think there's there's some interesting new ways of looking at that

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as far as uh things people are doing but but have have either of y'all had a chance to skim through it

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and draw anything interesting from it i'm i'm sorry i've not no i uh i tell you what i did do though

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which relates to the last conversation ed talking about ebpf so much did make me go and do a little

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bit of research on what that's all about and that did blow my mind but no i've not seen the devops one

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yet um i i i i i need to go and have a look at it i'm sorry i've not done my homework i need to go

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look at that one i feel much the same way there was a lot out sort of in the last couple of weeks to

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try and absorb and that just becomes another one and especially because it was assisted one on security

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and this sort of security focus one from google which is a bit more as you say go that's a bit more

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process a bit more high level maybe than assisted one um but there's so much to sort of consume and

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actually for me you know you know it's when i read through them is it all still mixes into

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platform engineering all this trying to find what is actually new because i can look at the sysdig one

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and my takeaway after skimming it for five minutes was security firm finds that there are vulnerabilities

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in containers and everywhere well i i knew that before i even looked at the report you know um

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so there wasn't anything massively new in any of them um the google one again if i read it and

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thought about it for a while i would probably end up with a bit of a takeaway of ah things have moved

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on a bit from where i thought they would be right platform engineering is one of those things that has

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been around a bit amorphous for a while in my head at least it's firming up a bit what it is

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i suspect if i read the google report it would firm up in my head a few more concepts that i

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sort of understand but don't necessarily refer to with the right terminology or something

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and then that's the that's that's that's a great segue because that's the other thing i i was uh you

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know obviously over the past year there's been a lot of like platform engineering talk and and on sunday

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morning this past weekend to give you an example of how thrilling my personal time is spent i was just

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you know looking through things and and i i was realizing i and and i realized that you know i i kind of

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rethought about the fact that there was a platform con out there and there's all this platform engineering

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talk and uh you know over the past year or so i think uh that has really cemented itself as the

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new phrase for what we used to call whatever right like you know there's there's a continuing evolution

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of how do you do operations for the stack of stuff that you run your custom software on and uh you know

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we we evolve that that phrase every now and then like i think the team topologies people use the

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phrase platform as a product and several years ago we would use that phrase to describe kind of like

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uh you know when when when you get a platform as a service a cloud foundry thing in place how do you

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operate that and and make it better for developers but but i'm i feel like we're pretty close to

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essentially saying like nope the phrase you use now is platform engineering i think i think that's that's

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what it is and and you know a lot of i'm i'm not quite done i tried to make a video summarizing in 60

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seconds and then i watched and i'm like no that's no good so i still need to do like some learning how

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to like be concise about it as i'm proving right now uh but uh i i think uh it's it's a good sort of uh

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it's good to have everyone's attention on how do we treat customers our developers as customers

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and go beyond just like providing tools for them and think about how we incorporate that in into the

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platform which i think i think is like maybe there is my theory is that there's renewed interest in

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this now because you know i'm doing air quotes here quote unquote everyone wants to to have their

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platform on kubernetes now which sort of opens up again the problem of like ah but

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you're gonna need to add a lot to that to make it usable for developers and that's what your

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platform engineering team does so it's kind of uh brought this vacuum in there and uh so you know

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uh uh charity majors has a a lengthy piece that actually has a table going over like different

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activities and things that that's fun to look at that's a good summary of it and uh there's also um

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our old friend uh paula uh has has a talk out you know she she's one of the the people that uh i don't

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know i first started learning about this stuff in in 2017 or 2018 uh so she has an updated talk

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uh kind of going over the idea of a platform engineering and and and uh platform as a product

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which is great uh so there's been a lot of good thought leadership and defining there that i think

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will be interesting to look at maybe in future episodes i'll have a more concise way of looking at

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it plus all of this talk about pre-recorded conferences is making me think just as a new

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policy maybe we can work this into the the accelerate state of devops report 2023 that what executives

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should focus on is setting aside a day or two called uh conference day where like you you give people

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the the freedom to actually sit down and watch a bunch of youtube videos for a conference and the

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reasoning would be like you need to have continuing education and training and normally you would send people to

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the conferences but this is very expensive whereas if you could just give them two days to just watch

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a bunch of conference stuff online maybe they won't get the full benefit but you know they'll they'll

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actually do it as we have demonstrated many times you're just like i don't know i don't have time for

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that i got other stuff to do but you could have the bosses actually force doing it and they could check

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in you could have like a break kind of like the the you know the conference uh thing will have like a 30

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minute break and maybe you have a 30 minute thing and the boss will like you know come online and be

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like hey look i'm watching conference stuff too eating crappy snacks that we sent to people like the

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little granola bars and things like that just like a real conference not at SpringOne though which is

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going to have great snacks uh not just uh granola bars and things like that i hope but uh i don't know

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do you have anything else you want to uh empty from the uh the out basket before we wrap up here

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well you mentioned uh kubernetes there and just a moment ago and i do remember one short report that came

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across my desk this week which was from uh wang clouds they'd done a survey of um the cost associated

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with cloud and there were some very interesting findings in there for example that yes a lot of

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people want to move to kubernetes but some of them find that that can get quite expensive for unexpected

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reasons not because kubernetes is expensive it's not you know it's free as in free beer or whatever but

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actually running it and then the proliferation of it that can sometimes happen if you're sort of

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slightly out of control with with how your developers get um clusters for example or if you don't have

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a good handle on all the observability and metrics needed to run that as well as being able to translate

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what you see into how much it will cost to run it in the cloud then uh you know some folks are getting

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burned apparently and and that so that was a really interesting report and it sort of you know last

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week we had a guest we had nikon didn't we talking about tanzu application service and um you know that's

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one of the alternative ideas is well maybe i don't need kubernetes maybe it's not right for me maybe these

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this SpringOne talk we were talking about earlier might uh have some insights there about when to use

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kubernetes and when not to use it but also at the same time there was a ton of good stuff in there about

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do you actually know what your costs are right now for running anything in the cloud in any way whether

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it's kubernetes or not do you actually know what it costs can you predict how much it's going to cost

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and do you have a good handle on that because in all likelihood with the kind of

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economic outlook at the moment you know budgets are going to be a bit squeezed so maybe it's a good

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time to figure out if you have a handle on that or not yeah yeah you you want it you want to remove uh

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costs as something that's going to be annoying for you not not not making it totally free that would

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be cool too but just in the sense of like all of a sudden we've discovered this thing that we didn't know

381
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about that's now preventing us from going forward boy that was really vaguely put but like i think i

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think uh you know because like in in the uh i don't know five or six years ago in kind of like the first

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one of the first waves of anti-public cloud fud it was just like costs right like you know having to

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pay for something but i think everyone understands nowadays that like public cloud or any cloud isn't

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free and yeah and then and then what becomes important is like so now that we've accepted that

386
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like how do you make sure you're not wasting money right like there's there's no need to like burn money

387
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:46,600
to be awesome you can uh you can control it and understand it and and get a hold of things which

388
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which i think is um i don't know isn't always a focus early on in uh new technologies emerging it's

389
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it's only when they um get mainstream use that it's something wise to pay attention to yeah and when

390
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you're a customer of three clouds plus you've still got your data center it's kind of like okay this is

391
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this is kind of getting a bit difficult to track like i've got these credit card bills coming in but do i

392
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i know what they're exactly for have i got a load of stuff i'm not using so if you don't have a handle

393
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on it it can really bite you i think that's right well hopefully you the dear listeners have gotten a

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handle on a little bit of things going on in the uh the old cloud native whatever we call this world

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nowadays if you want to get the show notes for this episode we'll have links to things we talked

396
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about probably not links to things we didn't talk about we'll see but if you go to tonsutalk.com you

397
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can find the show notes for this episode and uh and find those links look at those surveys and other

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stuff like that and also of course just as a reminder we have SpringOne coming up december 6th and 8th

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i think if you've listened this far you have an idea of what's going on there but uh you should you

400
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should sign up for it look at the sessions check it out and uh you know i'll just put the code you

401
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:07,800
can use to get 200 off in the show notes if if you if you really need it why go over it again is that

402
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:12,120
is that that's that's not a good practice for advertising anything right to repeat yourself

403
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:18,200
they say just say it once if if i remember uh so with that we'll see everyone next time bye bye

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bye