1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,480 This, this episode, we have a topical episode about the Tanzu application 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,900 service 3.0 recently released. 3 00:00:05,900 --> 00:00:10,640 And we have, we've got a, we've got, we've got a nice guest lined up who 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,600 actually knows what they're talking about in detail. 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:13,880 They've organized their thoughts. 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,520 They figured out the best way to present them for maximum knowledge transfer. 7 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:20,280 Why don't you introduce yourself guest? 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:22,920 Uh, hi, I'm Nick Kuhn. 9 00:00:22,980 --> 00:00:27,660 I'm a technical marketing architect, uh, working on Tanzu application 10 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:32,580 service and, uh, this new product as well, the application service adapter 11 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:34,080 for Tanzu application platform. 12 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:35,300 Ah, yes. 13 00:00:35,380 --> 00:00:40,020 That that's that now is that, is that in the 3.0 release or is that still in, in sort of 14 00:00:40,020 --> 00:00:41,220 beta or whatever release? 15 00:00:41,220 --> 00:00:41,760 I forget. 16 00:00:42,060 --> 00:00:46,420 Uh, the, uh, the adapter is still in beta, but, uh, keep your, keep your eyes peeled 17 00:00:46,420 --> 00:00:48,900 for, uh, when it goes generally available here soon. 18 00:00:49,220 --> 00:00:49,640 Yeah. 19 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:49,940 Yeah. 20 00:00:49,940 --> 00:00:50,340 Okay. 21 00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:50,940 That sounds good. 22 00:00:50,940 --> 00:00:55,800 Well, so before we get into, I mean, this is the, the, the 3.0, which would imply it's 23 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:01,920 the third major release of the application service here, but you know, for, for not everyone, 24 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,860 unfortunately, you know, for, for their own, uh, excitement in entertainment is familiar 25 00:01:06,860 --> 00:01:10,200 with the Tanzu application service, previously known as pivotal cloud foundry. 26 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,860 Why don't, why don't you give us, uh, like, like, like what is, as we say here inside Taz, 27 00:01:15,980 --> 00:01:17,740 like what's, what's going on with this thing? 28 00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:19,020 Sure. 29 00:01:19,180 --> 00:01:24,480 So like at a very high level, you can think of, uh, Taz application service as a, uh, 30 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,640 what we call a platform as a service or kind of like a application runtime. 31 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:34,800 Uh, so that's kind of a, a higher level abstraction than what you see with maybe like a Kubernetes, 32 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,840 which is most people call it a container container as a service container runtime. 33 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,220 Uh, so it's kind of higher up the stack. 34 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,720 Um, as you, uh, kind of mentioned before this, this is the artist formerly known as pivotal 35 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,120 cloud foundry or pivotal application service. 36 00:01:49,540 --> 00:01:53,460 Uh, a lot of people still call it PCF just cause that's kind of what stuck with them. 37 00:01:54,100 --> 00:02:00,540 Um, but it is a distribution or release of cloud foundry and, uh, that it, you know, 38 00:02:00,540 --> 00:02:04,440 there is a, something called the cloud foundry foundation and there are multiple kind of certified 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:10,880 distributions produced by various companies, uh, of this, uh, you know, software suite, um, 40 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,340 or, you know, kind of foundation of software. 41 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:19,580 Uh, but, you know, it's all kind of geared towards the, uh, you know, elevating the developer 42 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:27,160 experience, uh, and really kind of, um, abstracting developers away from, uh, infrastructure toil and, 43 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,780 and, and, and fiddling with all the different bits that they can kind of get lost in, uh, 44 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,580 you know, this day and age, especially with, you know, if you look at kind of like building 45 00:02:36,580 --> 00:02:42,500 your own Kubernetes platform and, you know, exploring the, uh, the CNCF and all the, you know, 46 00:02:42,580 --> 00:02:46,180 all the different, you know, ways you can get lost for, uh, just figuring out how to get 47 00:02:46,180 --> 00:02:48,780 ingress or certificates or things of that nature. 48 00:02:48,780 --> 00:02:58,320 Tell me, uh, how, what you think of this, Ben, but I think, I think that, that, uh, uh, that 49 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:03,340 the Tanzu application services, I don't know what you, what you call like a classic paths that, 50 00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:09,100 that is like, it, it essentially tries to, and, and does pretty well removing from application 51 00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:13,380 developers, the need to really do very much infrastructure thinking, right? 52 00:03:13,380 --> 00:03:20,020 Like all of the sort of infrastructure is, there are still things there to do, like, um, I don't 53 00:03:20,020 --> 00:03:24,640 know, explain how to connect together different components of your applications sort of command 54 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:27,980 that it gets done, but you don't really have to like do it. 55 00:03:27,980 --> 00:03:33,640 You just deem it so like, like you would sort of expect from a, a, a self-service platform. 56 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,820 Yeah, it's really, really powerful. 57 00:03:36,820 --> 00:03:41,020 I mean, um, first of all, it's very mature and very trustworthy. 58 00:03:41,460 --> 00:03:47,320 So, you know, exactly what's going to happen when you're issuing your commands against, uh, 59 00:03:47,620 --> 00:03:48,780 Tanzu application service. 60 00:03:49,180 --> 00:03:55,540 And, um, Nick and I, we, we've both been on the other side of the fence, if you like. 61 00:03:55,540 --> 00:04:02,040 So, so I, I was in the field as a consultant, helping folks to learn how to use, um, Tanzu 62 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:08,340 application service and, um, in many large organizations, you know, folks like, uh, like 63 00:04:08,340 --> 00:04:11,380 banks and automotive companies and that sort of thing. 64 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,120 Um, and they really, really get it. 65 00:04:15,220 --> 00:04:20,760 You know, they really dig the fact that, yeah, a developer can have a lot of control over 66 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,040 exactly where their application is going to run. 67 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:31,300 And I know for, for Nick, you came from a, uh, a client of, um, Pivotal Cloud Foundry, 68 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:31,700 didn't you? 69 00:04:31,740 --> 00:04:33,300 And you, you came to us from there. 70 00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:37,720 So I'm presuming you had a similar experience with the folks that you're working with. 71 00:04:38,220 --> 00:04:38,900 Uh, yeah. 72 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:45,020 So, um, I, I, I worked at a large retailer previously, um, uh, before coming to VMware. 73 00:04:45,220 --> 00:04:51,920 But, um, you know, with this kind of, first of all, from the developer experience that 74 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,040 we talk about that, that command and, you know, that's really this, this command called 75 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:02,680 CF push where it focuses on going from source code to production or source code to URL, uh, 76 00:05:02,740 --> 00:05:03,940 you know, within minutes. 77 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:09,800 And kind of before that, what folks saw, if we'd go back in time, kind of before, um, 78 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:15,140 the, the Kubernetes landscape, you had to go like fight with all these legacy kind of 79 00:05:15,140 --> 00:05:19,820 infrastructure application service servers and, you know, fight to get, you know, your 80 00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:24,780 code pushed to a server and, uh, you know, work with networking teams to get load balancing 81 00:05:24,780 --> 00:05:27,060 and certificates and things of all this nature. 82 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:33,540 And with CF push that enabled developers just to take that code and the platform would 83 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:34,160 upload it. 84 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:40,060 Uh, it would, you know, put it in a runtime, a container, you know, um, back in the day when 85 00:05:40,060 --> 00:05:43,260 cloud foundry came out, that was kind of a newer, newer thing for most people. 86 00:05:43,540 --> 00:05:49,000 Uh, but it automatically built a container for you based on best practices called, uh, build 87 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:49,440 packs. 88 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,700 Um, and we kind of see that, that build pack concept carried through today through multiple 89 00:05:53,700 --> 00:05:59,040 technologies, uh, and that's kind of was all handled on, on behalf of the developer. 90 00:05:59,180 --> 00:06:00,880 They didn't have to worry about doing any of that. 91 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,040 And then it gets promoted up the chain and, you know, gets into the routing tier where, 92 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:11,380 um, load balancing gets set up, um, auto scaling gets set up, uh, certificates and all of that 93 00:06:11,380 --> 00:06:16,580 is just handled on the, by the, by the platform for the developer. 94 00:06:16,580 --> 00:06:17,980 And they don't have to think about any of that. 95 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:21,060 And that's a very common, um, it's a great story. 96 00:06:21,260 --> 00:06:26,860 You know, if we look back a few years and we look currently too, that's, you know, it's 97 00:06:26,860 --> 00:06:30,880 still kind of hard to do even with, um, some of the newer technologies as well out of the 98 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:31,220 box. 99 00:06:32,020 --> 00:06:37,840 So it's very powerful from a developer perspective, but also from an operation perspective, uh, 100 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:43,380 there's this little, uh, handy infrastructure, uh, as code technology called Bosch, uh, which 101 00:06:43,380 --> 00:06:49,180 really enables, uh, you know, customers or clients of a team's application service to upskill 102 00:06:49,180 --> 00:06:54,720 their operations game because then, uh, Bosch will, uh, automatically deploy Cloud Foundry, 103 00:06:54,720 --> 00:07:00,760 uh, on pretty much any infrastructure as a service as choice, whether that's vSphere, AWS, Google, 104 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:01,320 or Azure. 105 00:07:01,740 --> 00:07:07,120 And so the, the operations team don't really have to, um, worry about configuring that or 106 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,700 building a bunch of, you know, bespoke Terraform to get their platform built. 107 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Uh, so that's all kind of handled, uh, by default by, by Bosch. 108 00:07:15,540 --> 00:07:21,980 And once, you know, that platform gets built, it will also take care of it from like a day 109 00:07:21,980 --> 00:07:28,900 one to day two to day 99 or, uh, day a thousand where it will monitor all these components that 110 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:29,380 it builds. 111 00:07:29,380 --> 00:07:35,920 And if there's an upgrade or a CV, like a CVE remediation, you can go and do a full like OS 112 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,540 rebuild or a rebuild of that specific item. 113 00:07:39,140 --> 00:07:44,040 And Bosch will do that whole rebuild and repaid process, um, kind of out of the box. 114 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:49,360 And also in a, in a manner that does not take the platform down and keeps it up and running the whole 115 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:49,660 time. 116 00:07:49,660 --> 00:07:55,080 So, uh, at my previous employer, we, we rebuilt our platforms at least four times a year, 117 00:07:55,080 --> 00:08:00,540 if not more, um, from like, you know, that golden, uh, image that we had with Bosch called 118 00:08:00,540 --> 00:08:01,120 the stem cell. 119 00:08:01,260 --> 00:08:06,940 So it's, uh, it's very powerful from both the developer and operator perspective of really 120 00:08:06,940 --> 00:08:12,700 kind of up, up leveling your developers and operators to, to just reduce a lot of complexity 121 00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:17,900 and, uh, really get folks, uh, focusing on what's really matters is, you know, how can 122 00:08:17,900 --> 00:08:22,220 we make our business logic process, you know, how, how do we produce more business logic 123 00:08:22,220 --> 00:08:26,160 faster to, to get features out to our, our actual end customers? 124 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:27,280 Yeah. 125 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,460 You know, I always think like, if always like, like I'm, I'm walking around while I'm cutting 126 00:08:31,460 --> 00:08:36,460 up garlic and things and always thinking here, but when it does come into my mind, uh, like 127 00:08:36,460 --> 00:08:42,160 I think, I think, uh, you know, the point of the tons of application services that if, if 128 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:47,840 you don't need to, or want to build your own platform, here is one you can use that, that 129 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:48,900 is all integrated together. 130 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:55,340 And of course, uh, as, as, as one of our coworkers, uh, former coworkers used to say, you know, 131 00:08:55,340 --> 00:08:56,740 you've got to install the cloud. 132 00:08:56,980 --> 00:09:00,100 So there's some work that has to be done to get the infrastructure in place. 133 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:03,720 But with that, with that baseline of work, as you were going through, you know, like you, 134 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,140 you kind of set up the way networking is done, the way storage is done, the way middleware 135 00:09:08,140 --> 00:09:13,340 is managed and scaled up and down and, uh, and provisioned out to people, so to speak, 136 00:09:13,340 --> 00:09:17,940 how quotas are, uh, done, like all, all the kinds of controls you would expect. 137 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:23,960 And, uh, it's just sort of ready there with defaults, uh, to use if, if you don't feel 138 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:29,500 the need or, uh, or desire to customize things and build it on your own or, or use, you know, 139 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:34,520 one of the parallel, uh, the, the other sort of platformy thing we have is the Tanzu application 140 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:40,460 platform, which is more of a, uh, uh, an integrated toolkit for building that platform on your 141 00:09:40,460 --> 00:09:45,440 own. If, uh, if you're into that rather than having this, you know, black box is always 142 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:51,280 a negative term, but this, uh, this, this functional uni unit, is that, can we see if that one works, 143 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,840 Ben? What do you think uni unit? Is that, is that going to fly? 144 00:09:54,580 --> 00:09:58,060 It sounds like part of an educational establishment. 145 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:04,080 Ah, yes. Yeah, there you go. Uni unit. I'm going to stop saying that word because I'm, I'm not 146 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,240 sure that's a little too science fiction for me. I feel like I've stumbled in some sort of 147 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:14,120 like Tumblr aesthetic vlog that's, uh, going over things. I'm not quite sure there. Well, 148 00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:20,520 uh, so there's, there's, you know, uh, a pretty, uh, large install for, uh, for Taz out there. 149 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,500 So I'm sure people are, you know, they, they kind of watched the, the versions coming out and, 150 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:28,980 and the new features there. But so it's always interesting to see what's in a new release. 151 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:36,280 And, uh, so we have, we have, uh, the tons of application 3.0 out now. Now, you know, tell me 152 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,740 how you want to start. This is all sorts of ways to go over the release notes. As it were, we got, 153 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:46,220 you can, you can go item by item. Maybe there's a big theme. There's also like the, uh, the kind 154 00:10:46,220 --> 00:10:50,920 of commercial side that that's always interesting. What, what people are doing with it. What's what, 155 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,280 when, when you, I'm sure you have spent a fair amount of time figuring out the perfect way to 156 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,500 represent this material. What's the part where you're like, I got to go edit this and I'm kind 157 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:03,040 of looking forward to it. What, what part are you excited about? Let's start with that. 158 00:11:03,820 --> 00:11:11,100 Um, let's see here. So I think every theme so far, uh, we focus on rolling out new developer 159 00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:18,960 features and operator features. Um, so those are two, uh, kind of like two different, um, areas that 160 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:24,260 I kind of focus on, you know, uh, obviously trying to get all the developer features and kind of read 161 00:11:24,260 --> 00:11:28,020 about them and, and, and, you know, trying to figure out what I'm going to, you know, 162 00:11:28,020 --> 00:11:33,700 maybe potentially demo or that type of thing. And then the operator features too, uh, they don't 163 00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:38,740 quite demo as well because, you know, it's hard to fit them in a short video, but they have a lot 164 00:11:38,740 --> 00:11:42,360 of impact as well. So if we want to kind of go through the developer features first and maybe then 165 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,700 like kind of go, we can dive to the operator features. Yeah. Uh, as well as it would work out. 166 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,140 So I think, you know, having actually done, you know, worked with TAS in the past, you're of course, 167 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,640 most excited about the working with TAS part, the actual features, which is good. And it's true. 168 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,680 You know, it can be difficult to show operation stuff because it's kind of like, it's kind of 169 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:05,520 like maybe showing off like a robot, like vacuum cleaner. You're just sort of like, that's what it 170 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,320 does. And it vacuums. And, and like, you know, what, what you don't see is someone not having to 171 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,520 spend all their time vacuuming on their own. It just automates stuff for you. And, uh, 172 00:12:14,580 --> 00:12:19,160 just, you just get a clean floor all the time. Exactly. So unless you, unless you had like a 173 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,800 five-year time-lapse video, you wouldn't really appreciate, uh, what was going on there. But 174 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,040 anyhow, how about the developer stuff? What's, what's in 3.0 for that? The developers will get 175 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:34,980 excited about. Uh, let's see here. Uh, so the first feature we can talk about, um, so there's been 176 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:40,620 some, uh, improvements in apps manager and that's kind of the, uh, GUI interface for the 177 00:12:40,620 --> 00:12:47,380 platform. And one kind of big thing that's kind of, it's kind of dev and operator-y, uh, I guess, 178 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:53,460 but, uh, apps manager now lets you search for like specific users or really has a user search 179 00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:58,420 within the platform. Uh, so that's kind of big when you have these big companies that have, 180 00:12:58,460 --> 00:13:02,840 you know, potentially thousands of developers in, in, in the platform. And if you're trying to, 181 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:08,720 you know, uh, like kind of space administrators or org administrators are trying to, to kind of add 182 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:14,060 or remove certain permissions or, or, you know, kind of, kind of do some permissions management, 183 00:13:14,060 --> 00:13:19,120 uh, within the UI, uh, that's kind of a big deal to, to be able to find, uh, you know, to be able 184 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,840 to search for a user and find it. So that's a, that's a big one in terms of just, uh, helping 185 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:29,880 everyone keep everything managed, uh, type thing. Um, another really interesting feature that's coming 186 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:36,760 out is the, um, the ability to kind of share routes between spaces. So cloud foundry as this, 187 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:42,560 um, uh, kind of like hierarchy built in. So you have the organization, cloud foundry 188 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:47,640 organizations and cloud foundry spaces. So, uh, an organization is usually tied to like a line of 189 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:53,560 business and a space is usually a team within that. So, um, within our customers and really, 190 00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:58,600 and any company you see, uh, you know, over time, there's kind of like people change and 191 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:05,160 reorganization where, you know, team A moves to team B or, you know, the, the application that team 192 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:12,440 A supported is now moving to team B. Uh, so this feature really allows applications to be moved around 193 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:18,200 within the people structure, uh, without taking downtime. So before this, they had to, you know, 194 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:23,080 do like a full, like redeploy that, you know, like for this, say, we're going to move application A to 195 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:28,120 team B, we're going to have to redeploy application A into team, into team B space, and then take down 196 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:34,120 the old app route, move it over. And like, kind of like, there's like unnecessary, uh, outages, 197 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:39,160 I guess, really just to, to deal with people changes. So this allows us to share spaces and do that, 198 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:44,920 that kind of application migration ownership change, essentially without taking things down. 199 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,960 Uh, so that's, you know, that's good in terms of like, you know, people don't have to schedule 200 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,880 change for tickets or anything like that, just to change a ownership type thing. 201 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,040 I mean, I mean, to use, to use the word, I think is a little ironic because it's trying to specify 202 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:04,280 literalness there, there used to be, you know, where your app run was like in a, in, was physically 203 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:10,920 defined in, in, in a space or an org. And now it's more virtually like, like it's not, it's not hard 204 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:16,120 coded into that, that space, for example. So you can just easily move it over without having to 205 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:22,120 sort of recon, you know, redo everything and, and reinstall it, which, which seems delightful. 206 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,920 I mean, you know, that's, that's one interesting thing to, to, to note about, uh, the, the like 207 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:32,840 cloud foundry way of thinking about things is the way with, you know, the way as, as you were going 208 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:40,920 over it, it divides up its cloud, so to speak is based more on people. Like, like the organization 209 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,480 structure you have and the teams of people doing things rather than the, the infrastructure 210 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,040 that it's running on, which has that, uh, interesting effect there in comparison to kind 211 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,480 of like a Kubernetes or another way of, of thinking about dividing up your, uh, platform. 212 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:01,080 Yeah. Yeah. So it definitely has hard. Uh, so Tain's application service in cloud foundry 213 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:07,240 has a like very hard multi-tenant scheduler. So you can, you can do these kind of organization, 214 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:14,600 like these people, like, um, I guess, delineation, uh, without really having the works have to worry 215 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,920 about like the blast radius of the technology versus if you look at Kubernetes, you have this debate of, 216 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:24,040 are we going to give every team like their own cluster? Does their own application get their own 217 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:29,800 cluster? So you kind of have like this weird, you know, debate of trying to organize that, 218 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:36,280 uh, you know, you have the container scheduler sprawl of trying to meet the people requirements 219 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,800 versus, uh, you know, that's something I think that cloud foundry, uh, that got really, got right 220 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,520 really well. It doesn't really get a whole lot of credit for really to press about, but the, uh, 221 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,320 orgs and spaces really help, help that problem. It's not, not be a problem, I guess. 222 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:57,480 They help address it. That's exactly. So, so what else is going on in the developer side there? 223 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:04,360 Uh, so we have some improvements to the app autoscaler. Um, so within the, uh, within the 224 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:11,960 apps manager, you can now, um, toggle the app autoscaler, uh, to scale up, uh, instances just, 225 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:17,960 you know, by a, you know, set number. So before the app autoscaler would watch an application and say, 226 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:23,720 oh, it's busy, let's scale it up one instance at like a set interval. But now developers can say, 227 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,720 hey, my application, when it gets busy, I need to scale up by more than one. So I'm going to scale 228 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:33,160 up by two or five or 10, 10 instances of the application. And that's really just to address, 229 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,320 uh, like if you're going to get a big burst of workload, like some, you know, some kind of event 230 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,280 coming on some kind of sale, something of that nature that those applications can scale up and 231 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:48,280 meet their SLA without, you know, without too much issue. So that really helps make the autoscaler, 232 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:54,280 um, to handle, you know, big, large, you know, burst of traffic, whether they be expected or unexpected. 233 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,680 Um, and that was in our previous release 2.13, that was in the, in, in the CLI configuration only, 234 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:05,480 but in 2.13 now it's in the nice, pretty UI that people can just click buttons and, 235 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,240 you know, have, have feel great about type thing. Um, now you can feel great two ways. 236 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:16,680 Yes, exactly. And you can see it too. It's the, the power of seeing something in the GUI is, 237 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,960 uh, is always nice. Uh, another, another interesting feature or something to call out is the, uh, 238 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:28,680 uh, integrated windows authentication support, uh, for the.net core build pack. So, uh, one thing 239 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:34,280 to do mention is that we, we do actually support windows applications a lot on the platform, 240 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:41,240 which is, uh, I guess atypical from other, other services. Uh, so we do run.net core and.net legacy 241 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,440 or.net framework, uh, sorry.net framework, which is kind of the legacy, uh, like windows type, 242 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:51,800 uh, uh, framework, uh, in the platform. Uh, so we've 243 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:57,160 rolled out the integrated windows authentication support for.net core, uh, build pack only. Um, 244 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,520 so this will allow those applications that are running the platform or that couldn't run on the 245 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:09,400 platform, uh, that because they required IWA, um, to now come onto the platform. So I'm kind of 246 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,520 thinking these, these applications are still maybe on this, maybe a legacy application server. Cause 247 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:20,760 they're stuck with this, you know, config. Uh, we can now accept those onto the platform and anyone with, 248 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,600 uh, these, these type of applications to probably celebrate. Cause then they're probably, you don't 249 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,640 have to worry about maintaining a legacy application server anymore. They can go onto a modern app run 250 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:34,840 time. Uh, so that's, uh, to me, pretty exciting, uh, for those developers. 251 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:41,000 And as you say, for, for several years now, I mean, uh, like.net and windows have been a pretty 252 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:46,840 good first class citizen and, uh, and Taz, which, which does like, I mean, I, I come across people 253 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,640 frequently who, uh, they really like it for their windows workloads versus, versus running, you know, 254 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,600 on, on newer things like Kubernetes or other container stuff. So that's, that's nice. I guess 255 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,800 that would, you know, with that, you, as you were saying, you can widen it up to, uh, older applications 256 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:08,440 or applications that have to use older services. Yeah. So, so to speak, which that sounds good. 257 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:15,240 Cool. Uh, and then I think the last one we, uh, we'll cover on the developer space is the, um, 258 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:22,520 fair CPU entitlement. Um, so that seems kind of, uh, I guess, you know, bizarre without explaining it, 259 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,640 but, uh, it talks about really about the, the underlying container scheduler, uh, of the platform, 260 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:35,480 which is called Diego. And this feature now allows, um, basically better use of the, the CPU scheduler 261 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,760 within the platform. So when you, when you enable this, this feature, it, it basically prevents, um, 262 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:49,560 noisy applications in the platform from taking over, like taking all shares of, um, of, of the CPU from, 263 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,520 from the cell that they're running on. So it basically, uh, allows the CPU entitlements to be, 264 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:00,040 um, uh, kind of honored. And if you have a bad actor, they're going to kind of be throttled 265 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:05,960 and not allowed to take over everything. Um, so that's kind of, uh, one of the kind of, I guess, 266 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:12,600 things to note as the, the, that the container scheduler in cloud foundry, Diego was always very 267 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,000 like memory centric from scheduling. So this is kind of some of these bringing in some new CPU 268 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,680 scheduling, uh, efforts as well. So, uh, that should help out some folks that really, you know, 269 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:29,240 when they're at scale, helping to ensure that CPU is kind of, uh, fair across the board and you don't 270 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,280 have, you don't have certain applications, just, you know, hogging, hogging a cell or multiple cells at a 271 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:42,040 time. So that should, and, and, and from a developer that should basically result in predictable or more 272 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:48,280 predictable CPU usage on the platform. Well, developers are probably a lot like my son. 273 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:54,280 He's, you know, 11 and very interested in fairness. I don't know if you've ever experienced this, 274 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,880 but they, they, he is both a fantastic lawyer. He can tell you how you have the minutia of how 275 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,960 you've worded something incorrectly and that we should now word it to be extremely precise. 276 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:09,480 And then he is a, he's currently getting his third doctorate in fairness, I think is what he's 277 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:16,120 pursuing. So even with chips, is this where the specialism in screen time or any particular 278 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,880 Absolutely. I think, I think that might be his, uh, his minor if they have that in postgraduate work. 279 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:29,560 Or, or, or is it a doctorate of it, right? Like, yeah, he's, he's pursuing multiple degrees. Yeah. 280 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,680 I think this, uh, I think this list, Nick is great. I, there's some stuff in there that I, 281 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:41,080 I think is really cool. I mean, clearly doubling down on that sort of ability to share things, 282 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:46,760 to scale things, making the administration easier. These are, and these are all in the, 283 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,720 in the apps manager side of the house. So these are all things that developers will see and be able to, 284 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:57,800 these are knobs and whistles that they can tweak and tweet. Right. Yeah. 285 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:06,840 Tweak and tweet. I, I, I guess. Well, yes. Brilliant. Yeah. Okay. Um, let's, let's cover a few 286 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:13,800 operator features real quick. Uh, well, as we kind of go down the list. So, uh, one really interesting 287 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:21,240 thing, uh, and we see this with, um, when you get to a certain scale and a lot of our customers have, but 288 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:28,200 when you think about like, you know, resources within the cloud, you know, you think about CPU, 289 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,960 disk and memory, um, you know, that seems pretty, pretty straightforward. But when you talk about 290 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:41,480 a container runtime or application runtime, you also have this thing called logs, right? And most of these 291 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:47,000 platforms don't really have any kind of quota or anything of that nature. And when you start to have, 292 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:53,080 you know, thousands or tens of thousands of applications, um, running on a platform, the log 293 00:23:53,080 --> 00:24:01,880 output could be, um, you know, substantial. So, you know, the cloud foundry, uh, platform has a very 294 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:08,200 extensive, like logging backend system that takes logs, you know, collects and aggregates all these logs. 295 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,840 And then you can, you can, it can send them to various sources or multiple sources, you know, 296 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:18,920 third-party sources or, or whatever for, uh, you know, metrics and log aggregation. And, you know, 297 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:25,960 to, to, to, to, to really help, like when you get to this in this stage of microservices and 12 factor 298 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:32,200 applications, the, you need SRE teams to basically debug the Death Stars and microservices that you built. 299 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:39,560 And logs and metrics are kind of critical to that. So we see like the log, uh, egress coming out of 300 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:45,320 our platforms, uh, being, you know, you can easily see like hundreds of thousands of logs per second 301 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:51,400 in some, some of these larger foundations. Uh, so we definitely over the years implemented things to, 302 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:57,160 you know, kind of level that and, and have that be more predictable. But this, this, this next feature 303 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:05,560 is, is, is really giving operators the ability to apply, um, log quotas now as well, uh, at the space 304 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,360 level. So you, you basically have to have this contract with your app teams to say, you're going 305 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:17,640 to get a quota on, you know, uh, disk and memory, and now you can get a quote on logs because if you, 306 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,440 if you, if the app teams kind of write something that that's logging poorly, and it's a very busy app, 307 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:28,120 it can, you know, it could be very bad in terms of consuming that on a third party service that you 308 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:35,880 pay per log. Right. Uh, so this is something, uh, that we're, you know, this, uh, the log quote is 309 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:43,160 being introduced, um, that you can do at the space level to basically give, um, allow operators to give 310 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:51,560 their dev teams a quota and, you know, kind of give them, uh, force a practice, uh, of, um, better coding 311 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:57,320 and, and making sure they log what's needed and, you know, don't, don't, you know, don't fire something 312 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:04,120 up and debug mode and leave it and that type of thing. So, uh, you know, on the blog, I entitled it, uh, 313 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:10,760 mute noisy application logs, but it's really kind of, um, getting logging quotas and ensuring that, 314 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:17,000 um, you don't have a few apps just, you know, spamming the logging system essentially. 315 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:24,200 And, and this, it also gives a mechanism to, to, to find, uh, these teams that have maybe poor 316 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:30,840 logging practices. Cause they'll blow out the blog quota and be like, Hey, uh, team a, you know, 317 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,480 why are you logging, you know, 20,000 logs a second or something of that nature? Can you, can we look 318 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:42,120 at, you know, your log statements and maybe, maybe, you know, do a little bit cleanup per se. So that's 319 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:47,000 something that you don't really see until you get to a certain scale. And then, um, that's a problem 320 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,720 that needs to be addressed pretty quickly once you get to that scale. So that's kind of like one of my, 321 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:58,360 I guess, what's called a flagship operator feature. Uh, and I, I think it will end up saving, 322 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:03,080 you know, hopefully a lot of money for our customers as they are able to, uh, kind of clean 323 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:10,840 up some of their logging practices and, and, uh, um, reduce just the backend logging, uh, constraint. 324 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,040 And, you know, especially if they're sending it to a third party, that type of thing. 325 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,800 Yeah. As you were noting, there's, there's several features that are around, uh, when you're operating 326 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:27,080 at high scale, small things add up if there are many of them, which, which, uh, uh, that's a good 327 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:33,480 truism for you, but that is nice. Maybe also it would encourage a briefer logs instead of logging 328 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,520 everything. As you were saying, that's, that's always, uh, uh, could be a bit of an annoyance. 329 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:46,120 Yeah, definitely for those who have to read them. Uh, but I think it's good as well because it's that 330 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:51,880 sort of feedback round that, that wasn't really there before around sort of, yeah, this, this one 331 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,160 is a bit too chatty, you know, it's a chatty Cathy that we've got on the, uh, on the platform here. 332 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:03,720 And, um, you, you know, when you translate that into a dollar value, it can add up quite quickly, 333 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:09,320 can't it? So, uh, so I'm, I'm in no doubt that it's been a popular request and it will be a popular 334 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:16,520 feature that. Yes. I, and, um, I, I, there are a few other features too in 3.0 that, that target 335 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:22,520 logging as well, but they're more on the, um, backend logging system. So I'm not going to get down 336 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:29,800 into the, those features as well. We have a, uh, a full kind of GA blog on Tanzu blog for, um, 337 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,760 for the release. So we have a couple other features too, that, that will help, you know, 338 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,920 that are all targeting that, that logging problem to, to just reduce that overhead and help our 339 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:47,240 operators out there as well. So I think I, I don't want to go through every operator feature just because 340 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:54,760 there's a lot of them, uh, but maybe we can go down into, um, I want to touch a little bit on the 341 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,560 tains of application service for windows updates, um, just because I want to call that out again. 342 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:06,280 Uh, so we've got two, two features coming out for that. Um, so our Bosch agents are now going 343 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:13,480 to restart automatically on our windows cell. So on a side note, Diego runs full in, in a full windows 344 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:19,240 server mode to, to support the, the dot net framework, uh, code basis. Cause you have to, 345 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:24,920 you have to run that on windows servers per, you know, micro Microsoft licensing, uh, agreements. 346 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:31,240 So, you know, that whole ecosystem of Bosch and that infrastructure's code process we've built and 347 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,920 runs kind of as the first class citizen for windows. And that not many people have that, uh, but we're 348 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,680 making some improvements around how Bosch, the Bosch agent works on the cell. So it will automatically 349 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:48,920 reboot and restart now. So when a cell, if a cell died or restarted, uh, an operator have to kind 350 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,840 of go in there and manually wake it up, so to speak. So that that's been fixed now. So that's, 351 00:29:52,840 --> 00:30:00,760 that's a big win for, uh, the windows, uh, windows operators of the house. Um, and then I think 352 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:08,760 another thing to let's to talk about, uh, I hinted at it before of really kind of the concept of platform 353 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:16,840 extensions. And, um, um, that is this, this application service adapter, uh, pertains application platform. 354 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:24,680 Uh, it's really, uh, a new project within the cloud foundry foundation called Karifi. Um, so that is 355 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:34,120 kind of the next evolution of efforts for cloud foundry running on top of Kubernetes and this, 356 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:41,000 this, this, this, this, this, um, this product or this adapter, it's been out in beta for, 357 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:47,240 I think since since January of this year, and the team's been releasing a release every, 358 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:54,360 every month and it should go to GA here soon, but it's definitely, I think something that we're 359 00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:01,480 targeting for some of our, our, our operators and our, our core customers who want to kind of, uh, 360 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,600 dip their toes in the Kubernetes water, but don't really want to lose everything they have already 361 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:13,960 today. And, and that's, you know, another really exciting thing going on. Um, it, it allows your, 362 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,920 your developers that you have today to maintain the, the, the CF CLI or the CF push experience, 363 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:25,720 uh, on top of Kubernetes and Tanzu application platform. Um, so that's definitely, uh, something 364 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,280 to keep, uh, your eyes peeled about as well as we continue to make pro progress there. 365 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,320 So, so tell us, tell us a little bit about that. Like what, what is, I mean, 366 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:41,080 I'm not too familiar with it, but what, what is, how does it work? What's the layering there? 367 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:47,160 Sure. So, um, if you, if we, if we talk about tap, right, or Tanzu application platform, 368 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:53,560 sorry for using acronyms, but it's, it's, it's, uh, my nature, I guess, uh, you take a Kubernetes 369 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,600 cluster, right. And then you layer, uh, Tanzu application platform on top of it. Uh, there's 370 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:05,240 some, some tooling to, uh, kind of that's wrapped in the Tanzu CLI to make that experience easier to, 371 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:10,280 to install those packages. And once you, once you have a Kubernetes cluster with Tanzu application 372 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:16,600 platform running on it, it is just another Tanzu CLI package to install that installs the, the 373 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:22,440 application service adapter. So it's making use of some of the, some of the bits of Tanzu application 374 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:28,520 platform, like Tanzu build service or contour and cert manager. Uh, so, you know, you know, 375 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:35,480 part of that new platform stack as you will. And it's also has additional APIs that it's running to, 376 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:43,880 um, to represent the cloud foundry APIs and, and CLI interface within native Kubernetes 377 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,560 constructs, like the, uh, the CRDs or the custom resource definitions. 378 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,960 Right. So that's at a high level what it is, but from a developer perspective, they still have that, 379 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,040 you know, they can still use their existing pipelines and their kind of, you know, developer 380 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:04,520 flow where they push to a, uh, cloud foundry API, uh, you know, that's compliant. So that's, 381 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,320 that's where, um, that, that adapter is going. 382 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,680 Right. That makes sense. So you have the same experience as a developer, 383 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,800 whether you're using like a ton, a cloud foundry based thing or, or a case platform. 384 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:25,560 It's not fully compatible with the, the existing set. So it's, you know, it's, I, I kind of viewed 385 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:31,720 it as like a cloud foundry light or a teams of application service light, uh, cause it doesn't 386 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:37,080 have that full feature stack yet, but a lot of the core features have been, have been, you know, 387 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,520 have been re, uh, I guess, uh, re-implemented and reproduced on the, uh, teams of application 388 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:48,520 platform side with that, with that adapter. Makes sense. So what else is going on in the release? 389 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:56,120 Uh, so two, two things to call out that are like, I guess we'll call them program related items. Um, 390 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:03,640 and I, one of those might be, uh, uh, prevalent with, with the version, but we've adopted a new 391 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:09,560 version format from like the, the TAS program. Uh, so we're going to roll out or we'll, we'll, 392 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:15,240 we'll be rolling out and we'll be, uh, you know, targeting the, this concept of a major minor 393 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:24,680 patch plus metadata version. So before, um, we were rolling out like two dot X, like two dot 394 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,920 one, two dot two, two dot three. And we've been on that two dot series for quite some time. And we were 395 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:38,360 basically, you know, releasing all this new major feature content on, on the minor patch stream. Uh, 396 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:45,000 so now as of Tansu application servers, three dot zero, we're adopting this new release and, uh, 397 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,520 uh, approximately every six, every six months, you know, we're going to target a new major release. 398 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:57,800 So we'll read that to three dot zero, four dot zero, five dot zero, that type of thing. Um, and, um, 399 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:07,080 that frees up that minor, um, branch to kind of be like an ad hoc, um, as needed, um, um, patch for 400 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,480 breaking changes, that type of thing. Like there's a, some kind of vulnerability that needs to come out 401 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,280 where we need to introduce something to fix something, but it might break something. Um, 402 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:21,000 that's kind of what the, the minor patch is for, uh, sorry, the minor track. And then the patch 403 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:27,400 track is, is just for non-breaking patch changes. Uh, and we've also, the, the metadata flag has been 404 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:35,880 added to, um, track what releases are going to be long-term support or not. So, uh, from a program 405 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:41,720 level, uh, uh, we introduced this concept of long-term support releases for folks who didn't want to 406 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:46,680 upgrade every so often. So we've, you know, previously we had this, this long-term support 407 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:52,600 program, which targeted, um, a release about every two years, and then this customer should upgrade 408 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,560 about every two years. And then in the meantime, we had a release target every six months. And that 409 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:04,200 was kind of like the fast track. So from, from that perspective, um, we've kind of rebranded the 410 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:10,440 long-term support program to the long-term support track. And then we had the, the, we were keeping the, 411 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:16,520 you know, the fast feature track or the fast release track that, so, uh, that long-term support 412 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:22,360 track now is going to be released approximately once a year. And then, uh, we'll still have that 413 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:29,720 fast feature track every six months. So, uh, those, uh, those long-term support track releases will be, 414 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:37,720 uh, designated them with the metadata LTST. So we can easily identify those releases when we're looking back 415 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:43,240 and, you know, looking through the release, not a release, um, documents. And, and, and, you know, 416 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:48,520 if you're looking at Tanzanet to find, to find an actual, uh, you know, thing to download, it'll be 417 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:55,160 very clearly documented. And those two, those, those changes that the new version format change and the 418 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,960 updates to long-term support really just trying to, uh, help customers get features a little bit 419 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:06,760 faster, but still be on that more, um, kind of, uh, structured, uh, cadence where, um, you know, 420 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:12,360 very methodical, you know, the, the, most of these customers are very, uh, mature in their, uh, 421 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:18,280 platform practices and, um, you know, there's a lot at stake and they don't want to be, you know, 422 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:23,480 rolling out things too frequently. So, um, especially with the, you know, new feature functionality, 423 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,200 very, uh, they're very risk averse customers and they, they like to make sure their platforms are, 424 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,560 you know, um, 425 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,240 Stable. Stable. Stable. Yes. Mission critical and stable. 426 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:37,800 Yeah. And then, and then we were joking about this last week, but you don't fall into the, 427 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,520 uh, the Java versioning problem where you're, you're a 25 year old technology still on the, uh, 428 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:48,680 the first version 1.X that they're operating on. Yeah. You can actually advance beyond that, 429 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:54,200 which is nice. And then, I mean, to point out the obvious implicit in that is that there is 430 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,920 a long-term support program for, for people who want to guarantee that, that stability there. 431 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:05,080 Uh, which, which is, uh, nice. Well, well, what else is, is there anything else, uh, 432 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:10,520 in the release that's notable? Um, let's see, kind of glanced over some of the operator features, 433 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:16,760 but I guess from a, from a security perspective, well, let's, I'm gonna, I'm gonna call this out 434 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:24,200 just cause it's, I like saying it, but, uh, jammy jellyfish. Uh, so the jammy jellyfish stem cell 435 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:29,160 is, is being rolled out. So if, for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, 436 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:36,600 um, it's really about the new version of the Ubuntu operating system. So, um, Ubuntu has very, uh, 437 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:42,600 awesome names for their, for their operating system releases. So jammy jellyfish is Ubuntu 22.04, 438 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:48,760 uh, also their long-term support release. Uh, so that is being rolled out for, for Tansu application 439 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:55,560 service and, and operations manager as well. So, uh, kind of by default, um, there'll be a full 440 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:03,640 operating system level upgrade going from Ubuntu 16.04 to Ubuntu 22.04. And that's all kind of 441 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,360 magically handled by Bosch, but that's kind of a big deal. Cause you know, typically when you do a full, 442 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:14,520 uh, operating system, you know, replacement that may or may not, you know, you know, require a lot of 443 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,320 work, uh, depending on what you're doing. So that's a, that's a big feature too, for the, for the 444 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:26,040 operator side of the house to just really ensure that, uh, we're on that latest, uh, OS and, uh, 445 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:31,320 everything's ready to go there. Plus I like saying jammy jellyfish. So it's kind of hard not to like, 446 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:36,200 great. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No. And, and, and as you're saying, right, like one of the, 447 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:41,640 one of the, uh, uh, benefits or promises or whatever, uh, of cloud foundry is like by the 448 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,200 nature of how stem cells, stem cells are like, you know, layered and then, and then your actual, 449 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:52,200 like, uh, deployments are layered on, uh, on top of that. Like there's a nice separation between 450 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:59,000 the operating system and the higher layers that makes it less painful to deploy a new operating system 451 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:05,240 than it may be otherwise. Definitely. If you're doing all of that on your own, but that's, that 452 00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:11,880 sounds good. Well, it seems like the theme is, uh, you know, there's, there's, there's both like 453 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:17,960 the, uh, quieting down all the noisy things and having more control over higher scale stuff, uh, 454 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:22,760 that are used in, in bigger installs. Uh, and, and then there's the, the sort of like stability 455 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,240 that comes with like, now there's a big install of things and we need to have like a multi-year 456 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:31,880 sort of plan for how we're going to handle, uh, handle support for that. But also like, 457 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,760 you know, what, what's the, when you want stability in a platform, it's good to know like 458 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,800 the expected release schedule for things, kind of like the philosophy of adding in new features and, 459 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,800 and releasing them and supporting them, which is kind of implicit in that, that version numbering 460 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:53,960 there or, or, or behind it. Right. Yes. Yeah. Do you have anything you want to add Ben? 461 00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,840 I do. I think there's one thing that, that is beautiful about, um, Tanzu application service, 462 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,640 and that hasn't changed from a developer's point of view. And that is how it makes you feel. 463 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:13,080 The, the very first time that you get behind that keyboard and you do CF push your app and a few 464 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:19,000 seconds later, you get your URL and you can hit it. And you know that behind the scenes, all, 465 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:26,280 all sorts of mountains have been moved to make that happen in such a smooth and predictable way 466 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:32,120 that it's brilliant. And when I was showing clients it, you know, it regularly blew people's 467 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:40,440 minds. It was like, okay, this, this has now suddenly become really easy. I like that. I like really easy. 468 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,800 Anyone who knows me knows I like that. So I like the fact that that hasn't changed, you know, that is 469 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:52,520 still there, still baked into the, to the platform to this day. And it's still putting smiles on people's 470 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:59,640 faces as they are working through their everyday, putting business logic into production problems, 471 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,440 you know, so I, so I think that is really, really commendable. And I'm very, very pleased that 472 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:10,040 there's version three is coming along and that, and that we're still investing so much into it as 473 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:17,320 well. I really like that. Yeah. That reminds me of my push, my, my first CF push experience. 474 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:24,680 So sitting in, in a lab with a coworker, and this is quite some time ago now, but we, we had 475 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,480 the teams of application service installed, you know, at the time it was called a pivotal cloud 476 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:35,960 foundry. Uh, we got it installed. It took about, you know, four or five hours to, to get installed on 477 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:41,000 top of our vSphere environment. And we were kind of fiddling with the CLI. And so we like, you know, 478 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,600 we pushed an app and I don't even know what the app was. It was probably, you know, hello world or 479 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,840 something. Right. And we got it to work and we're like, wow, that's awesome. And they're like, 480 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,240 all right. What's this thing called CF scale, like CF, CF scale dash I a hundred, 481 00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:57,480 that scaled up to a hundred instances. And then a hundred instances started and we're just like 482 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:02,040 that, you know, like not only did you, you get your application running and then you just 483 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:07,640 scaled it up to a hundred instances in a few, you know, minutes, it was just like completely blew our 484 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:12,520 mind. And that was quite some time ago, but yet it's still that, that experience is still, 485 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:18,280 still a hundred percent relevant today. Uh, you know, and the art, you know, the customers of 486 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,360 this platform still, you know, get a great, that, that great experience still lives on 487 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,920 and continues to, you know, has a bright future. Uh, I'm real excited about. 488 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:35,000 There you go. If you haven't tried it, try it, it will blow your mind. I'm glad you shared the 489 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,800 same experience I did. I got to say, yeah, it's really good. I love it. It's really good. 490 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,000 Well, speaking of relevancy, I'm sure we'll be talking about the Tanzu application service a lot 491 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,680 at the spring conference. We have coming up SpringOne conference, you know, despite its name, one 492 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:55,640 has actually been around for a while. It's, it's, it's more than a 3.0 product. As I recall, I don't 493 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,960 know the spring conference has been around for quite some time. I remember going to a very small one 494 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:05,080 way back in the late two thousands, but it's much larger than that now. And, uh, it's going to be 495 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:11,640 December 6th to 8th in San Francisco. Uh, and there'll be lots to learn about the Tanzu application 496 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:18,360 service and application platform and Java and just, uh, spring doing.net things, programming and, 497 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:23,960 uh, doing operations and even a little bit of, uh, I know it's your favorite topic, Ben digital 498 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,520 transformation. You know, you and I, when we hang out, we're always like, let's go talk about digital 499 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:33,800 transformation. Yeah. And, and we like talking to other people who like talking about that as well, 500 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,320 which is always nice. Just get a, get a big cup of digital transformation and, and, uh, 501 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,040 start drinking it. I, I joke, but what, what, you know, what's meant by that is, uh, hearing from 502 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:48,920 people who are actually using software and, and, uh, building and running their own software to like 503 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,880 run their business and their organization and, and new and better ways and, uh, changing over to it. 504 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,320 Anyhow, that's going to be, uh, December 6th to 8th. And if you go to SpringOne.io, 505 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,480 we have a fair amount of the sessions posted. So you can kind of browse around and look at it. 506 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:08,120 But when you, uh, when you're there at SpringOne.io and you register for it, if you use the code 507 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:15,240 Coté 200, you can get $200 off, which is better than $0 off. Uh, last I checked how math works. 508 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:22,120 So you might as well use that code and also being relevant. Uh, if you went to tanzutalk.com and, uh, 509 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,520 looked at the show notes for this episode, we'll link to the blogs that, uh, that, that we mentioned 510 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:31,160 and went over and, uh, all the other relevant stuff, uh, to take a look at. We'll, we'll have 511 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:36,600 to get a special collection for people who go see the show notes at tanzutalk.com. And, uh, 512 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:42,040 with that, uh, do y'all have any other final shots, uh, thoughts you want to share, whether it's about, uh, 513 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,040 digital transformation or platforms. 514 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,520 That seems like the ideal segue. Cause I think Nick, you've got a talk at SpringOne as well, 515 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:48,920 haven't you? 516 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:49,400 Oh yeah. 517 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,080 I mentioned that. Yeah. So I, if you want to learn more about tanzu application service, 518 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:58,760 uh, I'll be at SpringOne, giving you a talk about, uh, kind of a deep dive. And, uh, so yeah, 519 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,880 come check it out for sure. Uh, you'll love to talk about tanzu application service there. 520 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,960 And then I got one more thing to hopefully close the show out, but I'll, I'll wait till everyone 521 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:13,720 else is finished. If we're any, is it? Yeah. Are you going to sing? No, I'm not going to sing. 522 00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:19,880 I don't, but that's no, nobody wants to ever hear me sing. Maybe for, maybe for next episode. 523 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,880 I mean, I think all you, you, we just put a vocutter on it or whatever that an auto tune 524 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:29,880 and then it'll be perfect. Right. There'd have to be a lot of auto tune to make that palatable, 525 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,040 I guess. I'm sure it'd be great. All right. Well, what's, what's, uh, take us out with your one 526 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:39,560 last thing. It's, it's this, you know, to sum up, uh, tanzu application service, it's best done with 527 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:46,040 this, uh, classic haiku of here's my source code, run it on the cloud for me. I do not care how. And, 528 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:51,720 uh, that's, that's, that's the whole kind of premise behind the platform. And I think everything 529 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:58,840 we talked about that today kind of help drives that, but I always like saying that. And Nick, 530 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,560 I'm right in saying that you have that embroidered on your pillow. 531 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,200 Not yet, but I think I will, or I'll get some kind of swag or something like that. 532 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:13,400 Maybe a hat or a shirt. I don't know. Pillow embroidery might not be the easiest thing to get 533 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:19,640 lined up, but well, everyone always needs a new hobby. Well, maybe, uh, maybe get Ryan to, uh, 534 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,680 etch something with his laser etcher or something. So one of our teammates, I think just recently got a, 535 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,240 some kind of laser device that does etching. So maybe, maybe that might work. 536 00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:34,200 He very nearly etched his kitchen countertop in the unboxing excitement. 537 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:41,240 You know, that, that might be handy to have like, uh, you know, um, like imperial to metric charts, 538 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:46,040 and then also just your imperial thing. So you can sort out what a tablespoon is relative to a pint, 539 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:51,080 relative to a court and all of that. And you could just etch that on your kitchen counter and really 540 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,720 never have to look that up again. It would just be right there. It would be really important to get 541 00:47:55,720 --> 00:48:01,560 it correct though. Yeah. That's what you want to shoot for. Yeah. Yeah. You can't really roll back 542 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:09,160 that if you go, it goes wrong. Right. Well, the utensils, you know, it would be like CSI when there's 543 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,360 someone lying on the floor and there's like this thing around it, you could have that, but for it, 544 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,680 for your, for your knives and just baboons and your folks. Right. Right. See it all, it all goes back 545 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:21,080 to, uh, having kids help you out. If you, if you etch that, they would know where to put things. You 546 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:28,200 can just say it's like the, the outlines that you have. Yeah. Well, speaking of knowing where to put 547 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,520 things and etching, it's probably etched in your mind, dear listener, that if you wanted to get this, 548 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:37,560 uh, this, the show notes for this episode, you could go to tanzutalk.com. And what I always recommend 549 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:43,080 is that if you haven't subscribed to it, you get, you get your, your podcast phone or computer out. 550 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,720 And if you just search for tanzutalk, you can download it and subscribe to it. Also, 551 00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:51,080 if you have children who are putting silverware where it needs to be, because you've etched it, 552 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:56,360 find all of their devices and subscribe to the podcast to download it. Any love of loved ones 553 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:02,840 that you have, uh, you know, partners, spouses, grandparents, friends, uh, your kids, parents 554 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:07,160 as well, just grab their phone and subscribe to the podcast episode. And I'm sure they'll, they'll 555 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,880 thank you. They'll, they'll send you cards this holiday about how wonderful you've made their year 556 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,120 by subscribing to this podcast. And with that, we'll see everyone next time. Bye bye. 557 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:17,820 Bye, folks. 558 00:49:18,420 --> 00:49:18,720 Bye.