1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,220 Well, why don't you introduce yourself? 2 00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:02,740 Sure. 3 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:03,100 Good thing. 4 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:04,320 Pleasure talking to you again. 5 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:05,740 My name is Henri Benelok. 6 00:00:05,940 --> 00:00:09,760 I'm one of the executive technical advisors in the Tanzu Valley Advisory Team. 7 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,280 I come from an industry, financial service industry background before joining Pivotal 8 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:15,920 and then now part of VMware. 9 00:00:16,420 --> 00:00:22,020 So I thought, you know, I have this little on and off series where I talk with people 10 00:00:22,020 --> 00:00:26,680 like yourselves, some of your coworkers on that team about like in the industries that 11 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,520 that you come from and you work on, like what are I don't have an artful way of putting 12 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:36,720 it, but, you know, in various organizations and industries like in finance, like yourself, 13 00:00:36,780 --> 00:00:42,520 when I talk with JT Perry and healthcare, like if you if you sort of realize that dream of 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,180 like we're going to act, we're going to be able to use software like a tech company. 15 00:00:46,180 --> 00:00:49,420 We're going to deliver on that old idea of software eating the world. 16 00:00:49,420 --> 00:00:51,640 So how do we use software to eat our industries? 17 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,520 The analogy gets kind of vicious after a while. 18 00:00:54,580 --> 00:01:00,200 But, you know, if we get to be good at our own software, uh, like how can we improve our 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,400 business, whether internal and external facing? 20 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,740 And, uh, I think, I think you're pretty good for the, uh, for the finance area just to kind 21 00:01:06,740 --> 00:01:06,960 of go. 22 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:12,440 Now, so before, but, you know, just to set some context, I'm always interested in the, 23 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,580 uh, the, uh, I I'm purposely being jokey about this, the headwinds and the tailwinds, 24 00:01:17,580 --> 00:01:23,800 like, like in the world of like finance, like what, what sort of like, what are the priorities 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,600 and the things people struggle with? 26 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:26,760 Like what's going on now? 27 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:33,560 And, and as, as context, like back when I started way back in 2015, like, uh, back when we were 28 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:38,440 pivotal, like, you know, the, uh, the, the problem was that like all of these little startups 29 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:44,000 are going to come in and, uh, steal, steal, uh, deposits and customers away from the traditional 30 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,960 banks, you know, things like that. 31 00:01:46,380 --> 00:01:49,680 Uh, so, you know, that was, that was a, uh, seemed to be a tailwind. 32 00:01:49,740 --> 00:01:50,140 I don't know. 33 00:01:50,340 --> 00:01:54,280 I don't hear so much about that anymore, but like in general, like what's going on in the 34 00:01:54,280 --> 00:02:00,360 world of finance that like, that organizations are worried about that is kind of in the area 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,580 where, where software and technology might help them out. 36 00:02:04,260 --> 00:02:04,620 Yeah. 37 00:02:04,820 --> 00:02:04,980 Yeah. 38 00:02:05,780 --> 00:02:06,180 Yeah. 39 00:02:06,180 --> 00:02:09,340 I think that that's, that's a good way of framing it because what's really happening 40 00:02:09,340 --> 00:02:13,740 in the financial industry, there's, uh, uh, definitely a couple of headwinds 41 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:17,100 and some tailwinds, but let's, let's maybe talk about the tailwind pieces. 42 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:23,900 Um, I think there's still a big pressure of what's kind of general described as a FinTech 43 00:02:23,900 --> 00:02:29,180 and which is a little, it's not a buzzword, I think, but it, it's not just the startups. 44 00:02:29,180 --> 00:02:34,180 It's actually the larger tech companies like the Apples, Googles, um, Facebook's of the 45 00:02:34,180 --> 00:02:41,200 world really becoming players in the financial services, uh, industry, uh, but it's in multiple 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:47,140 different ways, just them providing capabilities, but also partnerships that are happening in 47 00:02:47,140 --> 00:02:48,780 a financial service industry between them. 48 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,880 And what they're realizing at the end of the day, it's, uh, about driving customer experiences, 49 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:54,180 right? 50 00:02:55,100 --> 00:03:00,780 Because, uh, what the financial industry is really interested, interested in is maintaining 51 00:03:00,780 --> 00:03:04,440 their, their customer base and ideally growing their, their customer base. 52 00:03:04,940 --> 00:03:10,660 Um, and they've seen some challenges with, uh, obviously the newcomers that come, come along 53 00:03:10,660 --> 00:03:14,520 that, that takes some of the market share that, that they have, um, ultimately. 54 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,960 Um, so what they're trying to figure out is like, how can some of the technology really 55 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:25,840 help us, uh, accelerate, uh, these capabilities, um, but the tailwind to kind of tie this back 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,500 to what's happening and what happened in the pandemic as well, is customers need to have 57 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:35,560 new experiences by which they, uh, can perform their financial transactions, right? 58 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,760 Now I want to categorize these as maybe a two different segments, right? 59 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,960 Um, there's kind of like, you have a majority of transactions that you do with your financial 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:45,920 institutions, right? 61 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,520 Uh, you deposit a check, you're making some bank transfer, you're using a credit card. 62 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,040 All those are getting really commodity, commoditized. 63 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,520 So the digital experiences in that world, um, that, well, the fintech companies or technology 64 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,960 companies have been able to drive is creating great customer experiences, right? 65 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:09,400 Like for example, uh, your, uh, your bank accounts or, or, or no, it's one category of 66 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,400 transactions that are being commoditized. 67 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:16,020 You're not, you're not going into your branch anymore for doing those things, right? 68 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,600 And during the pandemic, you, in fact, you couldn't go into the bank anymore, right? 69 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:20,840 Uh, for doing these things, right? 70 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,160 But then there's a larger, another category of activities as well, but it's truly based on 71 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,340 trust, right? 72 00:04:27,940 --> 00:04:33,980 And there's innovation that's happening there as well through things like data aggregation, 73 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,800 um, making data available, um, from multiple financial institutions. 74 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:45,340 So the user customer can manage your, uh, your financial health more and more, uh, let me 75 00:04:45,340 --> 00:04:45,960 give you an example. 76 00:04:46,660 --> 00:04:49,740 Uh, now you might have multiple checking accounts. 77 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:52,120 You might have a credit cards, uh, et cetera. 78 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,860 Customer really want to be able to build a trust to maintain your, their financial health 79 00:04:57,860 --> 00:04:59,880 with somebody, somebody, right? 80 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,000 And for those cases, you might still go into a branch talking to a person or on the, on the 81 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:05,280 phone. 82 00:05:06,020 --> 00:05:11,660 And so there's innovation that's being done there to, to simplify that one, um, like in 83 00:05:11,660 --> 00:05:17,580 Europe, uh, APJ and a couple of other places around the world, um, it's become true regulation 84 00:05:17,580 --> 00:05:19,560 with open banking, for example, right? 85 00:05:19,620 --> 00:05:23,900 That you can start aggregating those things and people starting to trust those capabilities. 86 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,600 Uh, the U S is not quite there yet because it's primarily done through commercial reasons, 87 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,500 not federal, federally regulated. 88 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:33,160 Um, so that's kind of like the second pocket. 89 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:39,420 So I think those two, um, uh, till wins that are happening there is one is again, the fintech 90 00:05:39,420 --> 00:05:43,820 company is really creating a new narrative of creating digital experiences, right? 91 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,480 Uh, to simplify those commoditized transact transactions. 92 00:05:47,860 --> 00:05:53,660 And the other side is creating a distrust relationship that is significantly deeper, deeper 93 00:05:53,660 --> 00:05:54,820 in the financial industry. 94 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,480 So those are kind of the two major, major buckets that I see. 95 00:05:58,960 --> 00:05:59,080 Yeah. 96 00:05:59,180 --> 00:06:02,420 You know, the, the first, you know, going over each of those, the first is interesting in 97 00:06:02,420 --> 00:06:07,380 that it's almost like, you know, I, I, I, I jokingly think of these, like, you know, 98 00:06:07,460 --> 00:06:11,820 these, uh, what's the word we used to use disruptors, like these startups that are, that 99 00:06:11,820 --> 00:06:14,360 are, you know, careening in as like robot dogs, right? 100 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,000 Like there's that picture of Jeff Bezos with like a robot dog at some point. 101 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,920 And, and like, you know, I, I hadn't thought about it as, as, uh, concisely as you were 102 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,020 saying it, but it's almost like all those robot dogs became partners and friends, right? 103 00:06:27,020 --> 00:06:30,480 Like there's sort of not really threats like they used to be. 104 00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:35,740 I mean, you know, any business partner is potentially a threat if something goes the wrong way or, 105 00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:41,540 you know, the lines aren't clear or whatever, but in general, like, it seems like banks everywhere 106 00:06:41,540 --> 00:06:49,420 have done very well, like, like, as far, as far as like partnering and innovating with like 107 00:06:49,420 --> 00:06:50,540 doing new things, right? 108 00:06:50,540 --> 00:06:56,560 Like they're not, they don't necessarily, they haven't necessarily, at least I, I only really 109 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:03,040 know retail banking, like banking for individuals like you and me, but it seems like there wasn't 110 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,580 really a revolution in like how banking is done. 111 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:10,600 Like, I remember, I remember signing up when I moved over to the Netherlands here, like three 112 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:16,800 years ago, I signed up for one of the new, like new banks and like, and I, and, you know, 113 00:07:16,820 --> 00:07:23,060 I remember thinking like, oh, it's a bank, like I, you know, whereas I was expecting like, 114 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,780 you know, especially us, you know, tech people, you get a new device and you want to go see 115 00:07:26,780 --> 00:07:28,220 like all the new things that it can do. 116 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:32,300 Like when the new iOS release comes out, like what are the new features and the things that 117 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:32,780 I could do? 118 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,300 And I realized that like, oh, it's, I mean, it makes sense because in banking, like you 119 00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:43,020 kind of don't want new features, but like, like, there's, there's a stability thing and 120 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:43,200 trust. 121 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:43,400 Yeah. 122 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:43,800 Yeah. 123 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,740 There's several thousands of, uh, years of, of, of, you know, figuring out this is what 124 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:49,580 banking should do. 125 00:07:49,580 --> 00:07:51,260 And this is what banking should not do. 126 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:52,440 And like, that's right. 127 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:53,140 I don't want that. 128 00:07:53,660 --> 00:07:54,000 Yeah. 129 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,840 There's a little bit of perception that was, was created as well. 130 00:07:56,900 --> 00:07:57,040 Right. 131 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,400 Like some of those, uh, startup banks as well, that the, oh, it's whiz bang user interfaces, 132 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:02,460 great digital experience. 133 00:08:02,580 --> 00:08:05,880 But to your point, right, it's still a bank at the end, at the end of the day. 134 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:06,120 Right. 135 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:11,480 Um, and actually some, some cases, the, a lot of banks actually failed, uh, because they 136 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,420 create these beautiful user experiences and then it took, still took two days to clear 137 00:08:16,420 --> 00:08:18,560 a check or try and trash for us. 138 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,220 Like, wait, that's not a new experience. 139 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:26,500 No, and I think it's, it's, as you're saying the second part, like it's a good, and that's 140 00:08:26,500 --> 00:08:31,760 a good example you just went over of like the focus becomes good customer experience. 141 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:37,680 Like that's a means to the other business need you had, which is, uh, retention and, 142 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:39,480 uh, and, and growth, right? 143 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:45,460 Like retaining the customers and getting new customers, but then also growing, you would 144 00:08:45,460 --> 00:08:46,520 say deposits, right? 145 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,960 I mean, is that what, what's the word you use to focus on? 146 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,400 Like in software, we would, you know, like what's the account value that you have? 147 00:08:53,820 --> 00:08:58,060 Net fit net, yeah, you know, to net new assets or assets on the management management. 148 00:08:58,060 --> 00:09:00,140 Those are kind of like key, key focus areas. 149 00:09:00,140 --> 00:09:03,120 So you're always trying to, you say products in the financial world, you're always trying 150 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,820 to get people to, to consume more products that you have. 151 00:09:05,820 --> 00:09:06,140 Right. 152 00:09:06,140 --> 00:09:09,460 And then, and then decrease the, the deposit that they have. 153 00:09:09,460 --> 00:09:09,780 Yeah. 154 00:09:09,780 --> 00:09:13,020 It's, it's kind of like your wallet, the wallet share that you get for customers. 155 00:09:13,020 --> 00:09:13,420 Right. 156 00:09:13,420 --> 00:09:17,620 And, and like you're saying, you do that through better customer experience nowadays, which, 157 00:09:17,620 --> 00:09:20,540 which I think, I think the example was great. 158 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,580 Like you can have a great mobile app, but then if it takes two days to have a 159 00:09:23,580 --> 00:09:25,740 deposit who cares, right? 160 00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:26,660 Like that's, that's right. 161 00:09:26,660 --> 00:09:26,940 Yeah. 162 00:09:26,940 --> 00:09:27,260 Yeah. 163 00:09:27,260 --> 00:09:30,300 And it's kind of what's more, what's happening in, in the industry. 164 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:33,260 Like I think of it as a couple of phases that they went through, right? 165 00:09:33,260 --> 00:09:39,260 Back in the day, it was really about, um, getting as much savings, um, into the bank 166 00:09:39,260 --> 00:09:42,980 because in the bank, from a business perspective, could then loan those things out. 167 00:09:42,980 --> 00:09:43,540 Right. 168 00:09:43,820 --> 00:09:47,220 And so then all of a sudden the interest rates starts going down. 169 00:09:47,220 --> 00:09:52,340 So the return on those, uh, deposits were not significant, uh, for the, for the banks. 170 00:09:52,580 --> 00:09:56,500 So they have to change, uh, their cost structure. 171 00:09:56,500 --> 00:10:01,260 And so one of the things that happened is they started using ecosystem players that provided 172 00:10:01,260 --> 00:10:04,380 the core banking capabilities, uh, that are out there, right? 173 00:10:04,380 --> 00:10:09,260 There, the FISs, Fisers, Tamina, and all that, uh, banks were starting to use those because 174 00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:11,340 that's a cost optimization of it originally. 175 00:10:11,340 --> 00:10:15,540 Uh, but then like what I said, the fintech companies came in, I go, oh, great. 176 00:10:15,540 --> 00:10:19,460 So we can now create a lot of, uh, um, experiences for your customers. 177 00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:27,020 Uh, but ultimately it's, it's about maintaining your number, your customers and then creating 178 00:10:27,020 --> 00:10:28,460 an ecosystem around that. 179 00:10:28,460 --> 00:10:33,380 So there's your customers feel like one, I, it's simple to do my financial transactions, 180 00:10:33,380 --> 00:10:34,380 right? 181 00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:39,140 So the first bucket of all my transactions, my day-to-day stuff, I don't want to really think 182 00:10:39,140 --> 00:10:40,140 about that. 183 00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:41,140 It should be easy, right? 184 00:10:41,140 --> 00:10:44,140 Bill paying, um, credit card transactions, et cetera. 185 00:10:44,140 --> 00:10:48,980 And now, but now you also want to be building the trust element of it as well. 186 00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:50,620 So that you stay with the customer. 187 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,380 So you don't want to create churn in your customers, uh, in that particular aspect of 188 00:10:56,380 --> 00:10:56,740 it. 189 00:10:56,740 --> 00:11:01,240 Um, so the latter one is interesting because, um, some of the digital experiences are playing 190 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:01,500 as well. 191 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:07,100 Like what I mentioned is the aggregation of low financial data so that you now know what's 192 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:08,060 in my savings account. 193 00:11:08,060 --> 00:11:10,060 How are my credit cards, uh, doing. 194 00:11:10,060 --> 00:11:16,320 Um, if I now want to create a, a, uh, non-secure low, um, make that easy, right? 195 00:11:16,340 --> 00:11:21,400 That I don't have to, to think about, uh, taking weeks for, for doing that, that aspect 196 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:21,700 of it. 197 00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:23,140 So that's another experience as well. 198 00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:28,320 And something that's also coming in more and more newer is creating stickiness is this 199 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,080 notion of, you know, buy now, pay, pay later. 200 00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:36,480 Um, you, you know, we can already have some of those concepts, but now pushing this all 201 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,820 the way to your point of sale, right? 202 00:11:38,980 --> 00:11:44,560 So if you go to like in the Netherlands to all the time or, uh, or, uh, to pick any of 203 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:49,400 your favorite grocery store or wherever else, and you really don't want to pay now being 204 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:54,080 able to do a financial transaction where you say, you know what, I want to pay over four 205 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:59,300 time periods, for example, yet when you're making the purchase, I'll think about that for 206 00:11:59,300 --> 00:11:59,620 a minute. 207 00:11:59,620 --> 00:12:04,580 Um, that seems like a very trivial experience to create, right? 208 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:12,560 Um, however, it creates also a deeper relationship between you and the financial institution, right? 209 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:18,320 Because now you're, you're creating this payment program per se that is non-secure. 210 00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:22,460 Um, but you stay with the bank because they provide this capability, right? 211 00:12:22,660 --> 00:12:26,380 So more and more of these experiences that you want creates this deeper relationship 212 00:12:26,380 --> 00:12:28,540 with your, with your financial institution. 213 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:29,360 Yeah. 214 00:12:29,460 --> 00:12:29,680 Yeah. 215 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:34,920 It's, it's like, uh, uh, not complicated, but very featureful layaway program. 216 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:35,940 Yes. 217 00:12:36,460 --> 00:12:40,920 I mean, lay of layaway is the opposite of that where you, you don't get to buy it until you 218 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:41,580 have the money. 219 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,080 They just reserve it for you, but still, yeah. 220 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:45,420 Yeah. 221 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:47,140 You know, just want to make it simpler, right? 222 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,940 It's like, you, you can, you love the shiny thing that you just want to buy. 223 00:12:50,380 --> 00:12:54,220 Um, and at the same time, you can pay over four, four periods or something like that, or 224 00:12:54,220 --> 00:12:57,440 whatever you're choosing it, but you can do it right at the point of point of sale. 225 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,140 Do people actually do that? 226 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,160 Like, is that, is that being done places? 227 00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:04,380 Yeah. 228 00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:09,360 There's over the last, uh, year is about a 40% uptake in providing those capabilities 229 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,580 in different forms, at least in the U S in the U S. 230 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:18,980 I guess not so much business wise, but for me, like I would charge a cheaper interest 231 00:13:18,980 --> 00:13:22,300 rate than like, you know, the 18, 20% on a credit card. 232 00:13:22,380 --> 00:13:22,780 Right. 233 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:23,180 Yes. 234 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:30,360 And, and so somehow the arrangement is that like, you know, I can pay it over weekly or 235 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:30,940 four months. 236 00:13:30,940 --> 00:13:33,240 And I mean, I assume I have to pay for that somehow. 237 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,700 Uh, but like, you know, there's, there's maybe hopefully just a single percentage or something 238 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:45,100 or just a flat fee that I pay to do that rather than, uh, you know, a steep, steep for borrowing 239 00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:46,100 that money. 240 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:48,420 Well, that's what they're realizing it. 241 00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:48,820 Right. 242 00:13:48,820 --> 00:13:51,540 It's that, um, we all use credit cards, right? 243 00:13:51,580 --> 00:13:51,740 Yeah. 244 00:13:51,740 --> 00:13:55,080 But the credit card fees are significant, significant, right? 245 00:13:55,560 --> 00:14:00,500 So they're creating these programs to either at a lower percentage points, or even at some 246 00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:01,900 cases, no percentage points. 247 00:14:02,460 --> 00:14:07,300 Um, and again, it's just to maintain your relationship with the bank, right? 248 00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:13,660 You don't go to a third party or a fintech company to, uh, that creates a product for, 249 00:14:13,660 --> 00:14:16,140 you know, buy now, pay, pay later, right? 250 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,100 It's just maintaining that relationship. 251 00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:23,160 And it's, it's at the end of the day, uh, you know, financials do you want to be able 252 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,780 to manage everything in your complete life per se, right? 253 00:14:26,780 --> 00:14:31,720 They already have enough information to, to understand what your habits are, uh, but maintaining 254 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,600 you as a customer is significant because then you get some other products. 255 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,120 She can do brokerage capabilities, et cetera. 256 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:39,120 Yeah. 257 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,760 I mean, it's similar to what, what I, I kind of, I don't know if Intuit is the right word, 258 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,740 but I kind of, I feel like what happens in the telco market and I mean, there's, there's, 259 00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:54,820 which is basically, I don't, I don't know the, the technical terms for this, but like in 260 00:14:54,820 --> 00:14:58,100 the telco world, I think that market is pretty saturated. 261 00:14:58,300 --> 00:15:03,380 It's just like all, all the customers have kind of maxed out on what it is they're going 262 00:15:03,380 --> 00:15:04,040 to buy, right? 263 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,820 Like some of them maybe could buy, you know, more cable channels or faster internet or unlimited 264 00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:15,040 cell phone, but it's sort of like, there must be an equilibrium where like there's the maximum 265 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,200 amount of money being spent, you know, plus or minus 100%. 266 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,840 And so like, so like, kind of like you're talking about what you have to do in that market is 267 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,060 come up with new things to sell to your existing customer base. 268 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,700 And then also like retain the ones that you have. 269 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:29,160 Right. 270 00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:33,620 And, and like, I, you know, I would assume banking is kind of similar, kind of like I was joking 271 00:15:33,620 --> 00:15:36,320 that there's thousands of years of figuring out what banking is. 272 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:41,800 It's kind of like, yeah, everyone has a, everyone who's going to has a bank account and there's, 273 00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:45,860 you know, there's the, the underbanked population that you can get to like finding new customers 274 00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:49,420 and things like that, but you're sort of like, yeah. 275 00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:52,360 So you need to get your existing customers to do more with you. 276 00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:53,980 Yeah. 277 00:15:54,180 --> 00:15:58,300 Because at the end of it's, it's, uh, the more assets you have on a management, the, the 278 00:15:58,300 --> 00:15:59,240 financial institution, right. 279 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,460 The more you can leverage that, um, for, for example, your corporate side of the house or 280 00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:06,040 corporate bank side of the house. 281 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:06,440 Right. 282 00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:11,580 And so, um, ultimately you try to kind of maintain that it's, it's kind of the same 283 00:16:11,580 --> 00:16:17,060 principles that like, if you have Amazon, uh, everybody signs up for Amazon prime, right. 284 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:23,120 Or, or Costco, uh, majority of the revenue is driven by membership, not all the stuff that 285 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:23,620 they sell. 286 00:16:23,980 --> 00:16:29,220 Um, it's just maintaining that, that ecosystem because, um, that that's a continuous revenue 287 00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:32,920 stream that you're, you're getting and you're maintaining your assets on their, on their 288 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,460 management as well, uh, which you can leverage at that point. 289 00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:37,360 Um, so that's the ultimate, ultimate game. 290 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,800 It's not about cheese anymore. 291 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,280 Uh, cheese are dwindling down anyways. 292 00:16:41,820 --> 00:16:45,820 So we, we have some teams who are writing software, right. 293 00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:50,920 And, and ho hopefully, hopefully they're like connected well to the business side, you know, 294 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,500 like, like they're kind of working, this is our ideal case. 295 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:59,720 They're working with, uh, whatever the business owners or the equivalent of a product manager 296 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:05,600 is in, in, and like, like, let's say you're. 297 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,640 You're just a, uh, you're like regular bank incorporated, right? 298 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,300 Like you're like a, uh, a high mid-sized bank, right? 299 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:20,280 So you're not necessarily a regional one because regional banking seems to be, um, constraint, 300 00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:23,640 constrained by just, they don't have a lot of money to spend on customization. 301 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:29,120 So they go, they go to the, they just buy off the shelf banking systems and, sorry, the 302 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:30,980 wide, wide label solution or something. 303 00:17:30,980 --> 00:17:31,740 Right, right. 304 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,700 Which, which is the whole other area, but like you, you're, you're a big enough bank at regular 305 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:42,080 bank to like employ hundreds, if not thousands of, of developers to, to do some stuff. 306 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,240 You're like, you're like, all right, we're at the start of our journey. 307 00:17:45,540 --> 00:17:47,780 Like, like, what are they, what, what are they going to be doing? 308 00:17:47,780 --> 00:17:52,460 Like they have an inkling that customer experience is good, but like, what are they, what do they 309 00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:56,240 start doing to kind of wade into what you and I were just talking about? 310 00:17:56,380 --> 00:17:57,700 Yeah, I think that's important. 311 00:17:57,820 --> 00:18:00,620 So you kind of mentioned, uh, tailwinds and headwinds, right? 312 00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:04,320 So let's just kind of recognize some of the headwinds that are happening in the industry 313 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,880 as well, because that's important for, for those banks to really be able to do that. 314 00:18:08,540 --> 00:18:14,660 Um, I, I think a headwind is clearly, um, a lot of them still have core banking heritage, 315 00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:16,140 um, as well. 316 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:17,340 So they're still spending. 317 00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:19,520 So let's assume it's an existing bank, right? 318 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,200 Of course it's a net new bank. 319 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,240 Um, so they're still having a lot of resources that are focused on that aspect of it. 320 00:18:26,820 --> 00:18:32,300 Um, so first you have to recognize that that is a commoditized solution these days, right? 321 00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:35,760 You, you buy this from another company, even a midsize bank. 322 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,820 Now a large bank would still maintain their own because of, uh, many different reasons 323 00:18:39,820 --> 00:18:45,460 or complexities, but, uh, midsize recognize that it is a commodity, move on, right? 324 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:51,620 So, and this is important because now your resources can focus more on creating customer, 325 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:52,740 customer journeys. 326 00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:56,360 Like how would you want the interactions to be with your customer? 327 00:18:56,380 --> 00:18:57,000 Right. 328 00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:57,280 Yeah. 329 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,780 Um, what creates stickiness, um, to you as a, as a solution? 330 00:19:02,420 --> 00:19:05,860 Um, and we've seen some interesting examples for some banks that, you know, midsize that 331 00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:10,520 have aspirations to be bigger, but then also it's that the second thing that they have to 332 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,960 recognize is this lack of focus as well. 333 00:19:14,420 --> 00:19:19,260 Typically banking, uh, business has been around, okay, purely thinking about revenue or purely 334 00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:23,160 thinking about cost aspect of it, but not having to think about this thing called customer, 335 00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:25,460 um, which is very strange. 336 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,840 It seems like intuitive to you and I, Coté, like many customers that we talked to, right? 337 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,360 Like, hey, customers should be at the center. 338 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,200 Most banked for, they're not, right? 339 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,380 They're thinking about either the commercials, commercial side, because it's more money flowing 340 00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:42,480 in versus actually the retail customers or creating a brand as well. 341 00:19:42,660 --> 00:19:44,020 That's, that's new for them as well. 342 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:51,220 Um, so one, so first they have to establish this notion in those product teams, kind of 343 00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:55,180 this product thinking that, that you and I have, uh, talked about before as well, you 344 00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:59,880 know, we from Pivotal typically thought about it's creating a product thinking mindset first 345 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,020 inside of the bank. 346 00:20:01,220 --> 00:20:02,080 Like, what are your products? 347 00:20:02,140 --> 00:20:02,940 What are your customers? 348 00:20:03,740 --> 00:20:07,420 Um, and then creating a holistic view of your customers as well, right? 349 00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:11,880 Um, if you don't have a holistic view of your customers, then you can't even start 350 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:12,700 in these banks. 351 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,540 So it's, that's first and foremost, you want to, want to create and then creating this 352 00:20:16,540 --> 00:20:23,300 notion of a product factory for say, where you have product teams focusing on those customer 353 00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:27,940 journeys, understanding the customers and creating experience and testing out already experiencing 354 00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:30,200 it, really improving net deposits. 355 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,880 Um, are you getting net new customers, your customer acquisition going down for, for those 356 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,960 things, um, that becomes really important for them to do, uh, this off the software development 357 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,300 piece is kind of like the easy part. 358 00:20:42,740 --> 00:20:46,920 Um, the, the harder part is really focusing on the customer and the, and the, and driving 359 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,580 prop product strategy with that, with that, um, and creating alignment in the organization 360 00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:53,460 to make sure you're like, okay, what is it that we're focused on? 361 00:20:53,460 --> 00:20:57,560 We're not trying to create thousands of, of products for the customers, right? 362 00:20:57,620 --> 00:20:59,900 Just focus on what your customers are needing at that point. 363 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:01,200 Yeah. 364 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,580 That's interesting that, you know, to, to, to summarize it, right? 365 00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:11,480 Like, like, like I think before you even worry about those software development teams, right? 366 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:19,340 Like, like there is a, uh, uh, there is a, uh, a foundation that you have to set. 367 00:21:19,420 --> 00:21:23,960 Like you, you, and, and a lot of it to your point is like not normal for regular bank. 368 00:21:24,140 --> 00:21:24,680 That's right. 369 00:21:24,940 --> 00:21:32,160 And, and, and it kind of, you know, I, it starts with, with, you know, when you were 370 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,520 saying like, you know, getting to the commoditized things, it's almost like, like 10 years ago, 371 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,800 the transition to SAS that I used to think about, which is like, if you have a cloud strategy, 372 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,600 figure out, look at your portfolio and figure out what you can just move to SAS, like, like 373 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:52,780 email, maybe your ERP system, whatever it is, like, just do that first and like do that for 12 months. 374 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:53,600 Right. 375 00:21:53,660 --> 00:21:57,940 And cause, cause like, I mean, exactly the point that you said, like there, it's not only money 376 00:21:57,940 --> 00:22:04,360 that you'll free up, but it's sort of like attention and priority and resources and like 377 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:05,200 all this stuff. 378 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:10,680 And then you can like shift all of your corporate attention from dealing with the email server 379 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,880 going down and worrying about this and, you know, but, and, and then for like kind 380 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,420 of core systems and things like that, it's worth thinking like, do we need to run this 381 00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:19,680 core system, right? 382 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,500 Like it's that's the good thing to shift. 383 00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:23,880 Well, to your example, right? 384 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:32,100 Like the, uh, new, uh, new banks that are, you know, internet first banks, um, they don't 385 00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:33,480 buy a banking system. 386 00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:38,860 They just use, um, bank, bank in a box or bank, uh, through APIs per se, right? 387 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:39,180 Yeah. 388 00:22:39,180 --> 00:22:39,400 Yeah. 389 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,640 And so, uh, you kind of have to do this rationalization of what's core versus context. 390 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:51,600 Your company, your portfolio, um, core banking is, is not, uh, something that, uh, I mean, 391 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,980 everybody just expects you to have it. 392 00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:57,960 So, you know, outsource this or just purchase, purchase one from a ecosystem provider and 393 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,420 then pivot your teams to really to help traffic. 394 00:23:00,420 --> 00:23:05,960 Like our focus is really, uh, or outcome that you want this, that new customers or higher 395 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,360 deposits, um, you know, tenure tenure of your customers, whatever the metrics are that you 396 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:11,420 want to, want to focus on. 397 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:12,320 Yeah. 398 00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:15,680 And then the end of that, the end of that journey, one day, maybe we should just have 399 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,900 a whole conversation about like legacy problems in finance. 400 00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:23,400 I've, I've, I've, I've been thinking that the, the new little booklet I write, the next 401 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,400 one should be all about like dealing with legacy stuff, a more of like a strategy executive 402 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,220 layer than like, you know, use the strangler pattern. 403 00:23:34,460 --> 00:23:38,480 Cause that anyways, but, uh, but I, you know, the, the way, the way you put the end, it's 404 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,020 like rediscovering the customer. 405 00:23:40,260 --> 00:23:40,620 Right. 406 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,920 And it is like, you know, it is, it is worth kind of making that explicit. 407 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,760 Cause I think, I think in a lot of the thinking that, that I, and, you know, we on this side 408 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,260 do, like, we just kind of assume like, you know, and then do product stuff, but it, you 409 00:23:53,260 --> 00:23:55,700 kind of outlined a good way of looking at it. 410 00:23:55,700 --> 00:24:00,880 Is that like, well, it's not, and this sounds insulting put this way or pejorative, but like, 411 00:24:01,020 --> 00:24:07,000 it's not, hasn't really been part of the business of banking to like pay attention to what your 412 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:07,920 customer does. 413 00:24:08,220 --> 00:24:08,620 Right. 414 00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:13,660 And I, to put, to put it in kind of a neutral way, that's because as you were kind of talking 415 00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:16,520 about at first, like banking is kind of commoditized. 416 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,340 It's just like, you have a savings account, you have a checking account. 417 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,000 I don't know what to tell you. 418 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:22,480 Right. 419 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:28,420 Like there's no, there's not, there's not really much to differentiate on. 420 00:24:28,420 --> 00:24:28,780 Right. 421 00:24:28,780 --> 00:24:32,700 But if you actually are getting to the point where customer experience is some, is something 422 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:37,260 you're differentiating on, then that's, you have to like, learn the techniques of like 423 00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:41,500 paying attention to the, you know, the journeys that the customers go to, to go through the 424 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:44,760 life cycle that they have, how you approve what their experience is. 425 00:24:45,260 --> 00:24:45,380 Yeah. 426 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,720 And that's, that's an important thing to, that's kind of the transition that's happening 427 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,380 because, um, spot on, right. 428 00:24:51,380 --> 00:24:54,040 Is that, uh, banking is kind of commoditized. 429 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,620 You have a bank account, that's not interesting anymore. 430 00:24:56,620 --> 00:25:03,940 What is interesting is understanding the financial health of your customers, understanding the 431 00:25:03,940 --> 00:25:06,640 life events that your customer has. 432 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:07,060 Right. 433 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,880 So put it in perspective. 434 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:14,360 If you have, take, take the life of a customer, they go through different transitions, right. 435 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,040 Understanding what those things are and how do you, uh, simplify that part event. 436 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,540 For example, they're going to go to high school, they're going to go to college, right. 437 00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:25,880 Your financial life changes during those events. 438 00:25:26,420 --> 00:25:31,200 Or, you know, when you have your first job, um, when you actually start getting, think about 439 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,500 retirement or vacations that you have done. 440 00:25:33,860 --> 00:25:40,000 So for a financial institution to understand that, and then, uh, focus on how do I make those 441 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,160 life events simple to do, right. 442 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:42,580 Yeah. 443 00:25:42,740 --> 00:25:46,560 Um, so the guys to do it even to a macro level, in my opinion, because there's like, you know, 444 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,620 when people say this dissolution of digital transformation that most of them have, um, 445 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,440 is not gravitated towards those things, because if you just talk about, oh, I'm making it simple 446 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:57,420 for an account open. 447 00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:58,600 Okay. 448 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,600 So what did you go from five minutes to 10 minutes or 10 minutes to five minutes? 449 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:02,840 Right. 450 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:03,920 Interesting. 451 00:26:04,540 --> 00:26:10,100 But how does it tie to where am I at in my life to say that it's relevant of what I'm 452 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:10,400 doing? 453 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,420 So, so what is, what is the state of, uh, open banking in the U S? 454 00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:18,740 Cause you know, I, we, I, I forget what the EU thing over here is, but like, you know, 455 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,900 we have that over here and I kind of, I kind of see the effect of it. 456 00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:25,820 Cause I only have one bank over here. 457 00:26:25,820 --> 00:26:31,020 And of course, EU open banking doesn't work with the U S so I can't, I can't pull on my, 458 00:26:31,020 --> 00:26:34,600 my existing stuff, but yeah, I mean, what's, what's been happening in the last three or 459 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,440 so years since I've been more in the U S banking system with that is, is, is mint just 460 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:40,340 going to be replaced? 461 00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:44,040 Is that, is that all set to go or how, how's it, how's it working out? 462 00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:45,140 Yeah. 463 00:26:45,140 --> 00:26:45,940 It's, it's interesting. 464 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:50,720 There's, uh, a lot of commercial players now, I mean, obviously it was to a certain extent, 465 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,740 um, the, uh, the key one in the United States to kind of help aggregate information. 466 00:26:56,740 --> 00:26:57,140 Right. 467 00:26:57,140 --> 00:26:57,340 Right. 468 00:26:57,340 --> 00:27:01,460 And, and, and to illustrate what could happen for it to, to, to customers that's, that's 469 00:27:01,460 --> 00:27:01,620 right. 470 00:27:01,620 --> 00:27:06,120 And they've been able to get a pretty good solid business model around them now to compare 471 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:07,940 it a little bit, just to kind of step back for everybody. 472 00:27:07,940 --> 00:27:14,040 It is that, um, uh, EMEA, APJ really have started up this notion of PSD two, right? 473 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,120 There's just kind of like a lot of the, the, the standards for open, open banking, uh, which 474 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:23,620 is also moving to, um, open loans, open insurance, um, regulation that's coming, that's coming. 475 00:27:23,620 --> 00:27:24,100 Right. 476 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,820 Um, but again, the fundamental of the notion is providing your financial institutions with 477 00:27:28,820 --> 00:27:32,460 an API that's consistent, that you can build new capabilities on. 478 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,500 In the U S it was more, uh, mint saying like, you know what, we're going to just scrape 479 00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:40,020 your, your, your banking websites, right? 480 00:27:40,020 --> 00:27:41,940 And then, um, and the banks didn't like that. 481 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:48,540 So now they created some APIs, but they're not consistent per se, per se, um, through 482 00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:49,420 right, through regulation. 483 00:27:49,780 --> 00:27:55,520 Uh, but now you have all other players like, uh, Plaid is one example, um, that has signed 484 00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:01,400 up a lot of banking customers to allow you to aggregate financial information at your 485 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,460 bank versus at Intuit or, or Mint, right? 486 00:28:04,460 --> 00:28:09,020 Um, that's different because now again, back this crisis, new relationship where you, for 487 00:28:09,020 --> 00:28:15,920 example, if you had a Schwab or Citibank or JPMC, I can now pull in my other bank information. 488 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,840 Uh, but they apparently it's using a third party to, to doing that. 489 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:20,980 That does the aggregation work. 490 00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:27,320 Um, so open banking as an API standard is not, uh, consistent in the U S it's primarily driven 491 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,260 through commercial, uh, ways like Plaid, like Intuit to, to, to create those solutions. 492 00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:33,380 Yeah. 493 00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:33,640 Yeah. 494 00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:39,900 But, but it's, it's, you know, I, I guess it'll get, you know, having your personal finance 495 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:42,180 dashboard is certainly nice, right? 496 00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:45,440 Like, you know, I, I have a Schwab account and they add it all in there. 497 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,880 So it's easy just to like, it's almost to some extent faster than using Mint, just because 498 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,220 the, the, um, because of the integration challenges. 499 00:28:56,540 --> 00:28:57,820 I've been reconciling. 500 00:28:57,820 --> 00:29:02,000 Whereas I can look, I can look in there and it's a little easier to get a big picture of 501 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,440 you, but you know, I, I, I think you're right. 502 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,780 Or the second thing you're pointing to is what would be more interesting is, is if you can 503 00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:14,560 have integrations between all of those products that you have, right? 504 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,780 Like, you know, like, like when we, we just moved to bought a new house here and, and we 505 00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:22,640 just got a mortgage with the bank that we have. 506 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,760 Cause it just, cause that's what came up. 507 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,980 There's limited costs for, for, uh, for expats or whatever, but that's not limited. 508 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,000 It was the easiest one and it just was coincidental. 509 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:39,280 But, um, yeah, I mean, I mean, it would be, it'd be nice to just sort of like do some sort 510 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:45,620 of OAuth authorization on like my, my financial information and be like, all right, give me 511 00:29:45,620 --> 00:29:46,780 some offers, right? 512 00:29:46,780 --> 00:29:51,060 Like versus, versus like, you know, we worked with a broker and filled out all this stuff 513 00:29:51,060 --> 00:29:51,920 and you got to do that. 514 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,640 And there's a lot of oddly enough, literal paperwork involved, uh, in it. 515 00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:57,860 Yeah. 516 00:29:58,660 --> 00:30:01,020 You can ask the, I think. 517 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,840 Um, aggregation of information, um, especially the financial information in the, uh, let's 518 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,000 talk about the U S right. 519 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,720 Um, those are good things, but it has to lead to something else. 520 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:13,800 Yeah. 521 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,900 Um, and you have to keep in mind the notion of trust. 522 00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:21,680 Like if you're doing a Google search on Google, you're okay that you see some ads, right? 523 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:22,740 To a certain extent, right? 524 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,160 That it's, uh, a little violation of privacy of the things that they know. 525 00:30:26,540 --> 00:30:29,460 Um, but wait, now you're doing it with my financial information. 526 00:30:30,180 --> 00:30:30,940 Um, right. 527 00:30:31,020 --> 00:30:31,260 Right. 528 00:30:31,380 --> 00:30:31,580 Yeah. 529 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,500 So back to, you say like companies like Schwab already have a trust relationship with you. 530 00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:40,920 And so you don't want to get like random advertisements per se, right? 531 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:46,020 What you actually want is like the next wave of in my life journey. 532 00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:51,140 Um, what else can you help me with based on the information that you have, right? 533 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,400 Um, is it to simplify making a loan, right? 534 00:30:55,420 --> 00:30:58,500 I've seen that you, you've reached that point that you might want to purchase a home. 535 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,860 You can make an offer say, well, you know what, Skota, you have so many assets, inequities, um, something else. 536 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,280 Why don't we create you a package that allows you to, to do this, right? 537 00:31:08,660 --> 00:31:23,120 So I think that's the next wave that your financial institutions can use that, that complete view of you and your financial life, um, to make really more subtle recommendations, subtle recommendations versus the advertising notion of it. 538 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:23,900 Does that make sense? 539 00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:26,020 That's where the new value comes. 540 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:43,940 Yeah, no, no, I mean, that's, that's, uh, that's exactly the scenario that would be nice is to not, not have to like, like, I don't want to be the integration point for, for like, for like my, my financial life, right? 541 00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:46,080 Like all of that information exists somewhere. 542 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,860 It just like for many, many reasons that are, there are good reasons. 543 00:31:49,860 --> 00:31:55,080 And then just like, you know, old, you know, legacy reasons, like it just stuff doesn't work together. 544 00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:09,980 And, you know, you, you bring up an interesting point that like, um, you know, I, I always think from a strategic point of view, trading on brand and trust is always like a mysterious, weird thing for, for strategy. 545 00:32:09,980 --> 00:32:10,300 Right. 546 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:29,240 Like, like it's the mechanics of it are often odd, but this one is, is pretty, pretty clear that even more so than like healthcare data, I think, at least for me personally, is that like, I already trust my bank with a lot of my information. 547 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:38,940 And I would kind of, I mean, I think if I trust any bank that I trust with my information, I would trust them to have information from my other banks. 548 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:39,520 Right. 549 00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:50,860 Like, I don't, I don't really want to hold that stuff at arm's length versus like, you know, maybe I can, I can see that in the healthcare world, like there would be certain things that I don't want my insurance company to know. 550 00:32:50,860 --> 00:32:51,260 Right. 551 00:32:51,300 --> 00:33:01,680 Like, I mean, it's, it's, it's almost, I don't know if it's a prisoner's dilemma, but it's some kind of like logic dilemma where like, where is the optimization of information? 552 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:07,060 Like, I give them versus like, now they're too optimized on their side and I lose out on my side. 553 00:33:07,060 --> 00:33:08,180 Like I need that equilibrium. 554 00:33:08,740 --> 00:33:15,220 Whereas like with banking, I mean, I guess there could be a scenario where if they knew, if they could calculate my credit, credit better. 555 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:21,080 I mean, you know, there's things you could go down, but in general, there's probably more positive outcomes on both sides. 556 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,600 If you can trust this data is aggregated. 557 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,780 I think so. 558 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,500 It all comes to testing some out, some salt, salties. 559 00:33:28,820 --> 00:33:28,940 Right. 560 00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:31,640 Like, um, simple example, like, um, 561 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,180 you don't want to have it all sound like, Hey, you're looking at your credit score. 562 00:33:36,300 --> 00:33:37,840 That feels a little bit violated, right? 563 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,280 Because there's implications of it. 564 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:50,320 However, to make your financial life simpler, like for example, if you have options or something like that with like E-Trade, um, for your company, I was just making this up. 565 00:33:50,920 --> 00:34:01,660 Um, but you recognize you sell out of those on a regular basis and you transfer that money to your, say, Schwarm account or any of the other brokerage accounts, um, offering them up saying, Hey, you know what? 566 00:34:01,660 --> 00:34:03,660 Well, I see you doing this on a regular basis. 567 00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:06,520 I know what your schedule, your vesting schedule is. 568 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,880 Um, how can I help you out to do this automatically for you? 569 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:10,320 Right. 570 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,320 Um, that, that helps it, that helps the institution because now the assets are moving. 571 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:15,820 Right. 572 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:24,420 Um, but it creates a consistent trust relationship that you're not offering new products per se or upselling you or creating more fees. 573 00:34:24,420 --> 00:34:26,040 It's, you know what, it's not a violation. 574 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,260 It's more saying, um, Hey, let me help you out. 575 00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:33,360 I see you do this regular and kind of remove that toil from you as a customer, as a customer. 576 00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:40,420 Um, I think that's where, uh, the value is, is, is going to be created and creating these subtleties that continues to emphasize trust. 577 00:34:40,420 --> 00:35:01,020 So, I mean, that's an interesting, uh, palette to start to paint with, to do a dumb metaphor is like, so if, if you, if you, if you, as a, if you, as a bank could rely, you know, if, how would you start new strategies and new, you know, it could just be a feature or a new line of business or a new, whatever. 578 00:35:01,420 --> 00:35:16,580 Like, how could you rely on the trust that people have and come up with new, new products out of that and new ways to retain people versus like, you know, any, anyone could like, let you download a CSV file of like 10 years of financial history. 579 00:35:18,260 --> 00:35:26,820 And then, you know, you could go upload it somewhere and see what the analysis was, but like, you know, that, I think you have to, it's different. 580 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:33,620 Yeah, a couple of things you have to do, especially in France, one, you have to be open and transparent about what you're doing and how you're doing things. 581 00:35:33,860 --> 00:35:33,980 Right. 582 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:40,120 Um, I go back to what PayPal did a while back ago, which I, I thought was not a great change. 583 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:46,680 You could actually see how your data was being sold to all kinds of third parties when you, the moment you open up a PayPal account, right. 584 00:35:46,780 --> 00:35:46,960 Right. 585 00:35:47,300 --> 00:35:50,720 Um, which that didn't create that much trust in my, my opinion. 586 00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:51,220 Right. 587 00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:51,680 Right. 588 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,380 Um, but you know, financial solutions should really highlight this as well. 589 00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:57,660 This is what we know about you. 590 00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:58,540 This is what we see. 591 00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:58,840 Right. 592 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:05,160 Um, um, and, and, and it's showing like who had access to it, including internal people inside of the company. 593 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:05,640 Right. 594 00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:08,820 So first and foremost is creating transparency. 595 00:36:08,820 --> 00:36:10,380 What is being done with your data? 596 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:17,960 Um, who has access to data as well, uh, is an important thing to maintain the trust capability as well. 597 00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:24,680 Um, and then internally, you have to make sure that, um, you have to start experimenting with some of the things. 598 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:34,820 So if you create a new feature, it's, it's good to debate, debate that inside of a financial organization, apply to regulatory aspect of it, but you slowly want to test it out in the marketplace as well. 599 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,880 Um, and that's been not as natural in most financial institutions to test things out, right? 600 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,780 Create the hypothesis of, of something, maybe do some AB testing in your customers. 601 00:36:46,220 --> 00:36:49,340 Um, but again, be open and transparent that you're doing this, right? 602 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:56,720 Um, to say, Hey, we're trying to figure out whether good products for you, um, that, that's, uh, become part of the narrative for, for the banks as well. 603 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:57,320 Yeah. 604 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:06,340 And I think, I think that's, that's like the, the goal of going through that journey is, you know, you discover your, what your customer is doing in the life cycle and you're trading on this trust that you have. 605 00:37:06,340 --> 00:37:16,140 And then, and then, uh, you know, as people jokingly say, that's when the real work begins that now you need to actually just like go through the innovation cycle of just trying out. 606 00:37:16,540 --> 00:37:32,880 And, and, and, you know, I mean, obviously like building up all the safety nets and guardrails and whatever metaphor you want to use that, you know, to, to make sure things are, are that you may, you, you know, you maintain that trust and, and also that things are secure and done well. 607 00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:33,880 I mean, all of that, right. 608 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:39,860 Like I always think it's, it's funny when, when not funny, but like, it's, it's slightly eye rolly when people ask about security. 609 00:37:39,860 --> 00:37:42,500 Cause it's sort of like, well, yes, it's secure. 610 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:48,740 That's like, you know, it's like, it's, it's like, if we described a new type of food to you and you ask, does it taste good? 611 00:37:48,780 --> 00:37:52,440 And it's like, well, that's the intention is that it has to be. 612 00:37:53,460 --> 00:37:53,820 Yeah. 613 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,160 It's a, it's a feature of what you already bought, right? 614 00:37:56,180 --> 00:37:58,480 It's not like an afterthought that you're trying to do. 615 00:37:58,860 --> 00:37:59,180 Exactly. 616 00:37:59,180 --> 00:37:59,460 Yeah. 617 00:37:59,900 --> 00:38:00,180 Yeah. 618 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:00,720 All right. 619 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:09,180 Well, I think, I think that's a good, uh, you know, as always, we never get down to, uh, all of the little footnotes and details that, uh, I, I, I, I originally wanted to, but I think, 620 00:38:09,180 --> 00:38:20,820 I think, I think we came to like, that's, that's kind of the setting for like, if you have an understanding of like, you know, doing design driven or product driven software or whatever you want to talk about it. 621 00:38:20,820 --> 00:38:23,680 And you're like, oh, we need to have Kubernetes installed, right? 622 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,260 Like, you know, all, all the frameworks, all, all the stuff that we would talk about in Tanzu land, right? 623 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,900 Like getting to that. 624 00:38:29,980 --> 00:38:37,700 I think, I think what's, what's interesting in, in the banking world is like, well, the whole goal of what we're getting to is customer experience. 625 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:52,500 And what that means in that, this context is we want to come up with new ways that our customers work with us, new features that we have ways of working with aggregated data that they might, that they might trust us to use. 626 00:38:52,640 --> 00:39:01,160 And essentially just taking that product mindset where we're really paying attention to like, well, so how do we make our customers' lives better, right? 627 00:39:01,220 --> 00:39:14,840 Like, like how do, how do we find problems they have and improve the current jobs to be done that they have and just work on that instead of like, you know, we're a bank and we just provide what we have, which, which is a valuable service. 628 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:21,000 But there's now the potential to do all sorts of other things to grow and, and get new customers and retain new ones. 629 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,300 You need to go beyond creating just the savings accounts. 630 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:24,960 That's right. 631 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:26,980 That's right. 632 00:39:27,180 --> 00:39:27,460 That's right. 633 00:39:27,460 --> 00:39:27,680 Yeah. 634 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,860 Because as far as I can tell, you know, saving interest rates and savings accounts, they don't really fluctuate that much. 635 00:39:37,220 --> 00:39:41,480 Remove the worry out of people's lives, simplify their lives, in that phrase, franchise site. 636 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,120 So I think that's what it's all about. 637 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:43,820 That's good. 638 00:39:43,820 --> 00:39:44,040 All right. 639 00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:47,440 Well, do you have, are you, are you in Twitter or LinkedIn? 640 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,640 Do you have some web blog that you post your, your thoughts to? 641 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,420 What, what, what do you want to add? 642 00:39:52,420 --> 00:39:52,640 Yeah. 643 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:53,760 Go look at. 644 00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:55,300 Yeah. 645 00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:56,640 I'll be on billboards, right? 646 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,760 But Twitter, Twitter site is HMVenby. 647 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,800 And obviously follow me on LinkedIn. 648 00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:08,600 Do a lot of postings in a couple of different areas around secure supply chains and financial, financial services. 649 00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:10,920 That's where I hang out. 650 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:11,960 All right. 651 00:40:11,980 --> 00:40:12,460 Well, that's great. 652 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:13,920 Well, yeah, thanks. 653 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:14,720 That was fun stuff. 654 00:40:14,780 --> 00:40:18,880 And as always, uh, we, I broadcast these as videos sometimes. 655 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:25,160 Uh, also it shows up in the, the tons who talk podcast, but if you want to find all of that, you can go to tons who talk.com. 656 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,240 There's where you can subscribe to the podcast. 657 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:30,080 If you click on the videos thing, you can go see the videos that we have. 658 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:36,000 Like this one that you've seen and, uh, you know, check out everything that's going on there and we'll see everyone next time. 659 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:36,380 Bye. 660 00:40:36,420 --> 00:40:36,660 Bye.