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Hey, this week we've got a new type of episode for Tanzu Talk.

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My team has been using Twitch.

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If you go to twitch.tv slash VMware Tanzu,

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you can see the original recording that we did here,

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kind of live and unedited,

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and all sorts of other things we're doing.

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But I've edited this one down a little bit to be more audio compatible,

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and just because it's nice to edit my inane chatter down.

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So hopefully you'll enjoy it.

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But if you want to see the visuals,

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I'll put a link to the original video in the show notes,

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which is at, again, twitch.tv slash VMware Tanzu.

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And you can also see the show notes at Tanzu.vmware.com slash podcast.

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Also, I would be remiss if I didn't note, as you can see here,

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that we've got our conference SpringOne platform

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coming up on September 2nd and 3rd of 2020.

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It's free for everyone.

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It's online.

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I've helped put together some of the talks, I should say.

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I've helped select some of the talks for the agile leadership track,

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which is going to be great.

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You know, I'm always trying to make sure that we have a lot of good case studies

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and sort of like tactical things for people to kind of learn from.

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So you should really come check that out, September 2nd and 3rd.

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If you go to springone.io, you can register for it.

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And again, it's all free and online.

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So hopefully it's something you enjoy.

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So with that, enjoy learning how we help people go through the big,

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important task of modernizing their portfolio.

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And this is kind of part one of just an example of how you walk through that strategy,

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putting it together and thinking about what to do.

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Why don't you introduce yourself, guest?

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My name is Rohit Kilapir.

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I have been in this app modernization space for a long time.

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I work for VMware Pivotal Labs.

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And my primary role is to help customers migrate applications to the cloud.

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You have been on many editions of Tanzu Talk over and over again.

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I was just listening to one, I think four.

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I was just listening to one and you had a great overview with someone from Travelers,

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essentially about, I think, tell me if I'm wrong,

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but how they moved over from the mainframe, essentially,

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and kind of systematically went through.

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And I think the application y'all were talking about was

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like an insurance approval one?

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Or no, someone trying to get a price for insurance.

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A rating application.

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Yeah.

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I mean, Travelers is great to work with, right?

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They have been a long-term customer of ours.

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So kind of they work and get our processes.

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Mainframe is always painful, right?

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And you have to kind of keep that elephant one step at a time.

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And so there was a rating for commercial insurance, I think,

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a rating application that used to run on the mainframe.

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We kind of ran our processes,

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primarily VMware Labs processes of domain-driven design and Swift

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to pull out, start strangling out pieces of that mainframe application

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and rewrite it on .NET Core, on distributed,

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and running it on Cloud Foundry or Pivotal Application Service.

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That project, we kick-started it.

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And then we came back and kind of helped them with a big push.

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I believe most of it is in production now.

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And they have, like, actually been successful

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on getting off the mainframe, which is kind of a big deal.

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That was last year, right, that y'all were talking with them?

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Yeah, we spoke about it publicly last year,

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but the project was started a couple of years back.

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So it takes a while to talk externally about something.

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So we had to get up to the world.

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And then, but yeah, the webinar happened last year,

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but the work was kind of ongoing last couple of years.

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And so I was asking that.

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So I wanted to have you on,

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because I was thinking, like, a visual medium is perfect

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for a lot of the stuff I've seen you kind of go through

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with your pencil there.

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And kind of going through how people,

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I mean, it's a multi-stage thing.

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Perhaps you can start with the first

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or wherever you want to jump in.

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But I think the process that you all go through

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to kind of say, like,

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here's your gigantic portfolio of existing software

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or legacy applications or heritage or whatever,

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whatever people want to call it.

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And you all have a good process of figuring out,

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never minding actually doing the work, which is great,

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but actually figuring out what projects you should work on,

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like what to actually do, which will be fun.

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But before we get to that,

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like, as I was listening to the Travelers thing,

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I was reminded of a conversation I've had

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with a couple of people,

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because I think the person you were talking to,

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there was some, like,

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motivation they were responding to.

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Or no, they were talking about how it's really good

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to, like, you know,

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not let yourself get,

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but not get stuck being happy with things being okay.

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And all of a sudden you have to, like,

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handle a bad situation, right?

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Like, that's the worst time to fix legacy software.

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And it was reminding me of something people,

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I've heard a lot of people talk about,

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you know, nowadays with the COVID and everything.

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And, you know, I was early on, you know,

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working in marketing, people are always like,

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what's the COVID angle on this?

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We got to get the eyeballs.

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And so they want me to talk about that kind of stuff.

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But it always seemed like a bunch of overly opportunistic.

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But in hearing people, like,

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talk about what their organization is doing near this,

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I've realized for some industries,

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it is this crisis moment that's required them

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to, like, do things differently really rapidly, right?

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Like, especially with stores and banks and things like that.

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And some of the commentary I've heard is really interesting,

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where because there's such a, I don't know,

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not time dependent, because there's such a deadline,

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like a lot of the normal slow ways of doing things,

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they're given permission not to do them.

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And, you know, I was wondering, like,

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that seems like the opposite of what you usually are doing

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when you're doing application modernization, right?

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Like, it's really hard to go in and be like,

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hey, we're going to modernize this stuff.

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And it's kind of sort of going to result in

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it looking like we did nothing.

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And so, you know, I was wondering, like,

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are you, whether currently or whatever,

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do you ever get in a situation where it is kind of like

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a crisis that you modernize something?

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And, like, what does that look like?

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Yeah, I mean, see, like, now in COVID times,

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one of two things happen.

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Either customers want to really, like,

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start modernizing because they have a critical pain point.

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Like, for instance, in retail,

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we have seen that volumes have gone up 200%.

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So if an existing retailer was looking at modernization,

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they are basically pouring rocket fuel on that.

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And, like, just, like, just get it started yesterday, right?

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So there are two classes of engagements.

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One is customers want to get started now or yesterday.

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And then where it has had a long-term chilling impact,

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like travel or airlines,

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there the pipeline has almost completely stopped.

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I mean, they are basically only in, like,

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survival mode right now.

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They don't have any money to spend on modernization.

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So either you are pouring rocket fuel on it

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or you are icing it.

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Like, these are the two things that are happening.

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Right.

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Usually, like, customers and enterprises are middle of the road.

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But, like, COVID has either dramatically accelerated

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or dramatically decelerated, like,

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your modernization phase is how, like,

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I have seen it.

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Yeah, that's interesting.

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It's like there's no middle ground.

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Just the two.

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A classic convex situation, if I remember.

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No, wait.

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Convex goes up and concave goes down, if I remember.

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I forget.

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I was never good at geometry.

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I was bad at anything.

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So, as I said, like, what?

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So you all go in, your team,

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and you're like, all right,

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we're in a mostly large organization,

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unless it's a small organization

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for one of these exceptions.

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And they're basically like,

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all right, let's modernize.

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And you go in, you know,

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you've had that awkward thing that we all do,

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working in an external company

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where you showed up 30, 45 minutes early,

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and you hung out in the lobby

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until the person who knows them shows up,

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and you got to go give your driver's license

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or your passport and everything,

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and they, did you bring a car?

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And then you got to wait,

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and you go in,

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and you, like, get some coffee,

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and it's always from these little, like,

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little cups that have been around.

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Whatever.

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So then you finally, you're all set up.

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You're like, you got the Microsoft Teams to work

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so the remote people can view it.

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You had to switch out the HDMI

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to USB-C dongle several times.

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And you're finally ready to start.

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What are we going to launch into?

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And feel free to jump around

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to whatever part of the process

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you're most interested in.

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But, like, walk us through

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what it feels like

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to do some modernization.

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So I'll just take it slow.

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So what customer has

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is, like, they call us in, right?

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And let's start with, like,

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they have generally a problem statement

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or, like, a problem that they want us to solve.

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So in this case,

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let's say they want us to, like,

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modernize my portfolio, right?

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So this is,

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usually when we get caught for app modernization,

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it is some flavor of problems like this.

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Now, from here,

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you kind of take two paths

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into the,

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like, essentially two pathways

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that this breaks down under, right?

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So either they want to move

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a portfolio of apps to the cloud, right?

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So what is the best way

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to move a portfolio of apps

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in a line of business

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or a particular,

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like, a particular stream of business, right?

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To the cloud, right?

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So this is portfolio of apps to the cloud.

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Or the second way is,

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like, help me to,

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what's the best way

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to modernize this legacy,

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like, critical app,

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like my crown jewel,

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the one that generates

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a billion dollars of revenue every year,

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which is this massive monolithic application.

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So there's a whole bunch

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of small, medium,

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and large apps, right?

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And then there is,

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so I'm going to put star here,

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and then there are these Excel,

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double Excel, triple Excel apps

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that are massively monolithic

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and generate tons of revenue.

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So that's kind of the problem space

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that we see,

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Michael,

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when we show up at a customer site.

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And, you know,

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I mean,

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tell me if you encounter this

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or if it's just an infrequent thing

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that I come up against every now and then,

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but I remember there's often a,

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well,

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I'll cut to the chase.

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00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:31,540
It's often like the mobile apps

264
00:11:31,540 --> 00:11:32,860
are done very well

265
00:11:32,860 --> 00:11:34,060
and work out nicely

266
00:11:34,060 --> 00:11:37,100
versus the other apps.

267
00:11:37,140 --> 00:11:37,540
And I think,

268
00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:39,040
I think maybe a lot of that

269
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,680
has to do with the,

270
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,640
we don't say client server anymore,

271
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,080
but the client server nature

272
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:44,800
of mobile apps

273
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:45,520
where the mobile app

274
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:46,920
can just sort of exist

275
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:47,720
all on its own

276
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:48,440
and it has to work

277
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,440
with backend services,

278
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:49,980
but, you know,

279
00:11:50,260 --> 00:11:51,400
they can kind of do things

280
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,040
all on their own.

281
00:11:52,220 --> 00:11:54,220
And I remember one organization

282
00:11:54,220 --> 00:11:55,800
I was talking with a long time ago,

283
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,100
I was pointing out

284
00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:58,260
that I'd used that,

285
00:11:58,260 --> 00:11:59,940
that company's mobile app

286
00:11:59,940 --> 00:12:00,940
and it was really nice.

287
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,480
And they had been for an hour or so

288
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:04,560
talking about all the problems

289
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:05,260
that they have.

290
00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:05,880
And I was saying,

291
00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:06,020
well,

292
00:12:06,020 --> 00:12:06,700
why don't you just do

293
00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:08,140
what that mobile app team does?

294
00:12:08,140 --> 00:12:09,240
Cause that's really nice.

295
00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:10,400
And they were like,

296
00:12:10,460 --> 00:12:11,180
oh no,

297
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:11,380
no,

298
00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:11,460
no,

299
00:12:11,460 --> 00:12:11,540
no,

300
00:12:11,540 --> 00:12:12,940
that's the mobile app team.

301
00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:14,800
They follow completely different rules.

302
00:12:15,220 --> 00:12:15,320
There's,

303
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:15,980
there's no way

304
00:12:15,980 --> 00:12:17,080
we could actually do that.

305
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:18,020
And it seems like,

306
00:12:18,380 --> 00:12:20,080
it seems like the small

307
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:20,740
and the medium,

308
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:21,160
you know,

309
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:21,860
sort of apps,

310
00:12:22,060 --> 00:12:23,640
they're almost kind of like

311
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:24,800
this island of,

312
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,140
of pleasure over there

313
00:12:26,140 --> 00:12:26,820
where,

314
00:12:26,820 --> 00:12:27,700
you know,

315
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:29,000
people can do things

316
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:29,840
in a nice way,

317
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,300
but for whatever reason,

318
00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:33,100
that change hasn't

319
00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:34,520
percolated down

320
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:35,340
into the,

321
00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:37,320
the XXXL apps,

322
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:38,880
so to speak.

323
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:40,200
The,

324
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,340
the island of pleasure,

325
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,020
I like that.

326
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:43,700
So like,

327
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:44,200
you are right.

328
00:12:44,220 --> 00:12:45,420
And I missed a critical part.

329
00:12:45,580 --> 00:12:47,080
Sometimes they call us to,

330
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:47,900
you know,

331
00:12:47,980 --> 00:12:48,680
we want to build

332
00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:50,080
a new digital experience.

333
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,900
We want to build a new,

334
00:12:52,060 --> 00:12:52,200
like,

335
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:53,200
we want to build an app

336
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,240
in this new area

337
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:54,760
of business.

338
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:55,760
Help us,

339
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:56,340
like,

340
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:56,940
drive,

341
00:12:57,260 --> 00:12:58,060
help us figure out

342
00:12:58,060 --> 00:12:59,200
the product market fit.

343
00:12:59,320 --> 00:12:59,980
Help us do,

344
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:00,500
like,

345
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:01,020
the lean

346
00:13:01,020 --> 00:13:02,320
and the UCD processes.

347
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:03,380
So they,

348
00:13:03,380 --> 00:13:04,040
they also,

349
00:13:04,460 --> 00:13:05,400
VMware Pivotal Labs

350
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:06,560
has a very strong,

351
00:13:06,660 --> 00:13:07,000
like,

352
00:13:07,060 --> 00:13:08,120
product development

353
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:09,960
arm as well.

354
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:11,560
So that's another thing

355
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:12,500
that they call us is,

356
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,700
I don't know exactly

357
00:13:13,700 --> 00:13:14,600
what I need to build.

358
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:15,320
I have,

359
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:16,740
my users have this problem.

360
00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:17,620
I want you to run

361
00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:18,680
outside of hypotheses,

362
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:19,900
do XP,

363
00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:20,540
lean,

364
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:21,160
UCD,

365
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,280
figure out what to build

366
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:23,440
and help me build it.

367
00:13:23,660 --> 00:13:24,380
So this is all

368
00:13:24,380 --> 00:13:25,300
green field though.

369
00:13:25,420 --> 00:13:26,780
So this is like

370
00:13:26,780 --> 00:13:27,620
net new.

371
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:28,500
Of course,

372
00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:29,400
it does interact

373
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:29,940
with old,

374
00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:30,600
but,

375
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:31,980
and then there's

376
00:13:31,980 --> 00:13:33,460
a set of existing apps

377
00:13:33,460 --> 00:13:34,020
that live,

378
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,500
and people don't like

379
00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:36,620
to call that brown field.

380
00:13:37,420 --> 00:13:37,980
Usually,

381
00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:39,140
these terms are not

382
00:13:39,140 --> 00:13:40,160
so popular anymore,

383
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:40,860
but like,

384
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:41,520
it helps,

385
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:42,140
this is green

386
00:13:42,140 --> 00:13:43,160
and then these are brown.

387
00:13:44,340 --> 00:13:45,360
So these are like

388
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:46,080
the three flavors

389
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:46,720
of things

390
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:47,800
that customers,

391
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,260
enterprises need help with.

392
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,020
So we kind of

393
00:13:51,020 --> 00:13:52,080
categorize this

394
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:53,380
as like the ask,

395
00:13:53,660 --> 00:13:53,860
right?

396
00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:55,740
So next step

397
00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:57,260
is like the plan

398
00:13:57,260 --> 00:13:58,060
and the prioritize

399
00:13:58,060 --> 00:13:59,140
phase of the work,

400
00:13:59,260 --> 00:13:59,400
right?

401
00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:00,460
So let's get to plan

402
00:14:00,460 --> 00:14:00,960
and prioritize.

403
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,560
So in plan

404
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:04,140
and prioritize,

405
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:04,520
right?

406
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:05,640
The first thing

407
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:06,720
you do is like

408
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:07,820
you assess the,

409
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,240
you assess the portfolio.

410
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,300
You assess the portfolio

411
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:15,960
for cloud native readiness.

412
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:17,520
So you want to go

413
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:18,220
to the cloud,

414
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:18,820
right?

415
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,140
like what,

416
00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:22,860
how messed up

417
00:14:22,860 --> 00:14:23,780
is your application,

418
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:24,260
right?

419
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,200
Is critical to knowing

420
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:26,800
that case.

421
00:14:27,380 --> 00:14:28,480
And there is a set

422
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,040
of tools

423
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,320
that we bring to bear

424
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,900
that tell us

425
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:32,740
how,

426
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:33,600
that tell us

427
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,200
the degree

428
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,680
of cloud nativeness

429
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:36,520
to the application.

430
00:14:36,860 --> 00:14:37,600
So I'll give you

431
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:38,100
an example.

432
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:40,480
You know that

433
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:41,260
cloud native

434
00:14:41,260 --> 00:14:42,000
can be defined

435
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:42,960
by the 12 factors

436
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:43,860
or 15 factors.

437
00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:45,100
When you have

438
00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:45,680
an application

439
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:46,660
that is running

440
00:14:46,660 --> 00:14:47,440
on VNs,

441
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:48,580
you need to know

442
00:14:48,580 --> 00:14:49,700
what do I need

443
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:49,940
to do

444
00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:50,520
to take it

445
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,400
to Kubernetes

446
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:52,460
or to run it

447
00:14:52,460 --> 00:14:53,340
to put it

448
00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:53,920
in containers?

449
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:54,460
Do I need

450
00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:55,600
to just,

451
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:56,800
do I need

452
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:57,200
to make sure

453
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,060
that my application

454
00:14:58,060 --> 00:14:58,820
just restarts?

455
00:14:58,960 --> 00:14:59,280
Do I need

456
00:14:59,280 --> 00:14:59,640
to inject

457
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:00,680
external configuration?

458
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:01,980
Do I need

459
00:15:01,980 --> 00:15:02,220
to,

460
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:03,020
so there are

461
00:15:03,020 --> 00:15:03,700
these various

462
00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:04,240
factors

463
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:05,240
partners?

464
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:05,740
And as an

465
00:15:05,740 --> 00:15:06,340
organization,

466
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:07,020
you need

467
00:15:07,020 --> 00:15:07,680
to understand

468
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:08,180
where,

469
00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:08,920
like,

470
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:09,660
what is

471
00:15:09,660 --> 00:15:10,180
the degree

472
00:15:10,180 --> 00:15:11,340
of technical

473
00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:11,880
change

474
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:12,300
you need

475
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:12,760
to do

476
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:13,440
to migrate

477
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:14,160
this application

478
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:15,020
to the cloud?

479
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:15,600
Right?

480
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:15,820
Yeah.

481
00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:18,300
I like the way

482
00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:18,680
you put that.

483
00:15:18,740 --> 00:15:19,380
I was almost,

484
00:15:19,540 --> 00:15:19,680
I mean,

485
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:20,080
you have it

486
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:20,720
more of a,

487
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:21,380
in a gradient.

488
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:21,960
I was almost

489
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:22,580
going to

490
00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:23,100
summarize

491
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:23,780
by saying

492
00:15:23,780 --> 00:15:24,280
that you,

493
00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:25,620
you assess

494
00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:26,200
the technical

495
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:26,940
feasibility

496
00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:28,320
of moving

497
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:29,200
the workloads

498
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,060
or the apps

499
00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:31,920
to the new

500
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:32,280
platform.

501
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:32,760
But then,

502
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:33,560
the way you're

503
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,020
phrasing it

504
00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:34,640
made me realize

505
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:35,380
it's more of,

506
00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:35,920
the more helpful

507
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:36,700
way of saying,

508
00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:39,640
what is the

509
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:40,020
technical

510
00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:40,820
suffering it

511
00:15:40,820 --> 00:15:41,400
would require?

512
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:42,320
So,

513
00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:43,220
so that we

514
00:15:43,220 --> 00:15:43,420
can,

515
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:43,980
you know,

516
00:15:44,020 --> 00:15:44,800
we can judge

517
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:45,220
like,

518
00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:46,480
not so much

519
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:46,900
that it's,

520
00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:47,160
it's,

521
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:47,460
it's,

522
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:48,740
yes or no,

523
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:49,780
but that it's

524
00:15:49,780 --> 00:15:50,460
really like,

525
00:15:50,820 --> 00:15:52,040
how much effort

526
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:52,440
would be,

527
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:52,900
would you have

528
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:53,440
to put in

529
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:54,460
to move

530
00:15:54,460 --> 00:15:55,040
this over?

531
00:15:55,860 --> 00:15:56,100
Perfect.

532
00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:57,020
Effort,

533
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,440
like feasibility

534
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,800
and the thing

535
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:01,240
is you,

536
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:01,840
you have to

537
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:02,740
realize that

538
00:16:02,740 --> 00:16:03,400
it's,

539
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,240
it's like a,

540
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,300
a subway train

541
00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:06,760
with 15 stops

542
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:07,380
on the way,

543
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:07,880
right?

544
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:09,480
So this is like

545
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:10,360
my first stop

546
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:10,980
and this is my

547
00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:11,800
15 stop.

548
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:12,840
Now you could

549
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:13,500
just choose

550
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:14,060
that to stay

551
00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:14,880
on the first stop.

552
00:16:15,020 --> 00:16:15,460
Like what I'm

553
00:16:15,460 --> 00:16:15,960
going to do,

554
00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:17,460
like one factor

555
00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:17,700
app,

556
00:16:17,980 --> 00:16:18,680
my application

557
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:19,260
just needs

558
00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:19,740
to be able

559
00:16:19,740 --> 00:16:20,380
to restart

560
00:16:20,380 --> 00:16:20,860
correctly.

561
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:21,780
If it does

562
00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:22,100
that,

563
00:16:22,260 --> 00:16:22,740
then I can

564
00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:23,180
live in

565
00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:23,540
Kubernetes.

566
00:16:24,020 --> 00:16:24,320
It will

567
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:24,680
not be

568
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:25,060
optimal,

569
00:16:25,380 --> 00:16:25,780
maybe it

570
00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:26,000
won't

571
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:26,680
auto-scale,

572
00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:27,860
like as

573
00:16:27,860 --> 00:16:28,580
long as

574
00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:29,220
I can

575
00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:29,660
restart

576
00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:30,160
reliably,

577
00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:30,700
Kubernetes

578
00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:31,300
can manage

579
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:31,820
my application.

580
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:32,800
But then

581
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:33,460
the 15th

582
00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:33,940
stop on

583
00:16:33,940 --> 00:16:34,400
the subway

584
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:34,880
is,

585
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:35,400
hey,

586
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:36,160
my application

587
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:36,820
is API

588
00:16:36,820 --> 00:16:37,300
first,

589
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:37,700
it has

590
00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:38,280
externalized

591
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:38,780
configuration,

592
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:39,140
it is

593
00:16:39,140 --> 00:16:39,580
completely

594
00:16:39,580 --> 00:16:40,560
stateless,

595
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:40,820
right?

596
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:41,380
Like it

597
00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:41,800
has all

598
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,160
the patterns

599
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:43,880
encoded

600
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:44,480
for cloud

601
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:44,720
native.

602
00:16:44,980 --> 00:16:45,360
So you

603
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:45,980
have to

604
00:16:45,980 --> 00:16:46,860
not think

605
00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:47,220
about it

606
00:16:47,220 --> 00:16:47,780
as a binary

607
00:16:47,780 --> 00:16:48,200
outcome,

608
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:48,860
but rather

609
00:16:48,860 --> 00:16:49,720
as if

610
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:50,460
I want

611
00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:50,720
to be

612
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:51,260
on subway

613
00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:51,820
stop number

614
00:16:51,820 --> 00:16:52,160
four,

615
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:52,800
this is

616
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:53,160
the amount

617
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:53,580
of effort

618
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:54,020
I need to

619
00:16:54,020 --> 00:16:54,340
go get

620
00:16:54,340 --> 00:16:54,480
through.

621
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:55,760
So don't

622
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:56,360
think of it

623
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:57,200
as binary,

624
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:58,980
but as a

625
00:16:58,980 --> 00:16:59,680
journey of

626
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:00,060
where you

627
00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:00,340
want to

628
00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:00,820
stop for

629
00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:01,300
each app,

630
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:01,620
and the

631
00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:02,040
effort is

632
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:02,640
dictated by

633
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:02,780
that.

634
00:17:02,780 --> 00:17:03,540
So that

635
00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:04,300
goes into

636
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:04,820
feasibility,

637
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:05,120
right?

638
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:05,980
Now,

639
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:07,000
when we

640
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:07,260
do,

641
00:17:07,460 --> 00:17:07,900
so there

642
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:08,520
is another,

643
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:09,440
this is the

644
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:10,280
second lane,

645
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:10,780
which is

646
00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:12,140
the digital,

647
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:13,120
build a new

648
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:13,740
app digital

649
00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:14,480
experience.

650
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:16,020
In this,

651
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:17,400
you have to

652
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:17,800
kind of

653
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:18,340
figure out

654
00:17:18,340 --> 00:17:18,800
what the

655
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,840
product is,

656
00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:22,900
you have to

657
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:23,580
determine what

658
00:17:23,580 --> 00:17:24,140
the product

659
00:17:24,140 --> 00:17:25,060
market fit

660
00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:25,680
is going to

661
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:25,960
be,

662
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:26,720
and then

663
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:27,300
you have to

664
00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:27,800
do like,

665
00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:28,920
you have to

666
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,740
run XP

667
00:17:29,740 --> 00:17:30,340
techniques,

668
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:31,300
you have to

669
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:32,020
do lean,

670
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:32,860
and you

671
00:17:32,860 --> 00:17:33,120
have to

672
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:33,540
do like,

673
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:34,480
you have to

674
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:35,060
do user-centered

675
00:17:35,060 --> 00:17:36,160
design to

676
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:36,700
figure out

677
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:37,200
like what

678
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:37,640
to build,

679
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:38,720
right?

680
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:39,320
Yeah.

681
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:41,200
So here,

682
00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:42,220
a different

683
00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:42,780
set of

684
00:17:42,780 --> 00:17:43,640
practices kind

685
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:44,120
of come to

686
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:44,360
bear,

687
00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:44,700
right?

688
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:46,000
More,

689
00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:46,900
because there's

690
00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:47,280
a lot of

691
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:48,300
uncertainty here,

692
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:48,720
right?

693
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:49,780
So you have

694
00:17:49,780 --> 00:17:50,000
to,

695
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:50,800
you are in

696
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:51,120
like the

697
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:52,100
discovery phase,

698
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:52,860
you do

699
00:17:52,860 --> 00:17:53,400
research,

700
00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:53,780
you do

701
00:17:53,780 --> 00:17:54,400
interviews,

702
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:54,980
you do

703
00:17:54,980 --> 00:17:56,900
joint analysis,

704
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:58,360
cohort analysis,

705
00:17:58,860 --> 00:17:59,480
to figure out

706
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:00,160
what the hell

707
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,700
are we building

708
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:03,020
to satisfy

709
00:18:03,020 --> 00:18:03,620
our customers.

710
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:04,920
So this is

711
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:05,480
where like

712
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:06,300
our traditional

713
00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:07,340
labs like

714
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:08,240
pivotally

715
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,220
got started,

716
00:18:09,340 --> 00:18:09,920
used to help

717
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:10,920
Twitter and

718
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:11,400
Google and

719
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:11,860
stuff like that.

720
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,580
So this is,

721
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:14,360
we have strength

722
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:15,120
in this area

723
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:16,140
and then we,

724
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:17,240
and this led

725
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,300
to the Greenfield,

726
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:19,820
Greenfield development,

727
00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:20,380
right?

728
00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:21,740
So does this

729
00:18:21,740 --> 00:18:22,580
kind of swim lane

730
00:18:22,580 --> 00:18:23,540
make sense?

731
00:18:24,140 --> 00:18:24,580
And yeah,

732
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:25,500
and so in that

733
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:25,880
area,

734
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:26,880
you're not so much

735
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,180
modernizing things

736
00:18:28,180 --> 00:18:28,860
that's,

737
00:18:28,860 --> 00:18:29,240
you know,

738
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:30,320
new apps

739
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:30,980
and new,

740
00:18:31,020 --> 00:18:31,720
new things

741
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:32,000
that,

742
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:32,420
that you're

743
00:18:32,420 --> 00:18:32,840
developing,

744
00:18:32,980 --> 00:18:34,080
which I think

745
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:34,800
to your point

746
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,100
is sort of

747
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:39,480
what most people

748
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:40,320
think software

749
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:41,280
development is

750
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,140
all the time,

751
00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:43,180
right?

752
00:18:43,260 --> 00:18:43,400
That,

753
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:44,620
that,

754
00:18:44,620 --> 00:18:45,400
that you're

755
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,000
sort of like,

756
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:46,600
you just,

757
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:47,560
you just imagine,

758
00:18:47,740 --> 00:18:48,660
you whiteboard out

759
00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:50,180
some wireframes

760
00:18:50,180 --> 00:18:50,560
or,

761
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:50,820
you know,

762
00:18:50,820 --> 00:18:51,660
draw something out

763
00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:52,120
and someone,

764
00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:52,780
someone writes

765
00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:53,280
this stuff

766
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:53,640
and then you

767
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:54,200
have the,

768
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,140
the thrilling

769
00:18:55,140 --> 00:18:56,320
adventure of,

770
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:56,680
you know,

771
00:18:56,740 --> 00:18:57,700
mapping it to,

772
00:18:57,820 --> 00:18:59,020
to either what

773
00:18:59,020 --> 00:18:59,880
people want to buy

774
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:00,520
or how to run

775
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:00,980
your business

776
00:19:00,980 --> 00:19:01,220
or,

777
00:19:01,380 --> 00:19:01,640
you know,

778
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:02,020
in the,

779
00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:03,320
in the case

780
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:03,860
of government

781
00:19:03,860 --> 00:19:04,360
stuff,

782
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,240
like to satisfying

783
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:06,980
whatever mission

784
00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:07,560
you have,

785
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:08,340
like to,

786
00:19:08,420 --> 00:19:09,040
to citizens

787
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:09,540
or whatnot,

788
00:19:09,540 --> 00:19:10,280
but it seems,

789
00:19:10,460 --> 00:19:12,860
it seems very

790
00:19:12,860 --> 00:19:13,500
creative

791
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:14,780
instead of

792
00:19:14,780 --> 00:19:15,440
tedious.

793
00:19:17,060 --> 00:19:17,260
Yeah,

794
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,060
but often

795
00:19:18,060 --> 00:19:18,400
the,

796
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:19,020
but the dirty

797
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:20,040
secret here is

798
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,420
even for new

799
00:19:21,420 --> 00:19:22,360
product development,

800
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:23,440
you almost always

801
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:24,520
have to interface

802
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:25,600
with back-end

803
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:26,100
systems.

804
00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:26,520
Yeah.

805
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:26,780
Right?

806
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:27,660
Like there's no

807
00:19:27,660 --> 00:19:28,360
escaping that

808
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:29,220
in any,

809
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:30,340
unless you are

810
00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:31,060
a true startup

811
00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:31,720
or you're just

812
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:32,440
creating a new

813
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:32,740
bank,

814
00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:33,920
like you will

815
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,000
always have

816
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:35,640
back-end

817
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:36,200
systems that

818
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:36,420
you are

819
00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:37,160
interfacing with.

820
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:38,440
So even

821
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:39,180
in new product

822
00:19:39,180 --> 00:19:40,100
development at

823
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:40,540
times,

824
00:19:40,740 --> 00:19:41,300
not at times,

825
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,260
like 70-80%

826
00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:42,740
of the time,

827
00:19:43,180 --> 00:19:43,520
you have,

828
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:44,240
you need a

829
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,180
facade or some

830
00:19:45,180 --> 00:19:46,080
gateway to talk

831
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:46,820
to the systems,

832
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:47,700
old systems.

833
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:48,640
And so there

834
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:49,380
is always that

835
00:19:49,380 --> 00:19:49,860
interaction,

836
00:19:50,140 --> 00:19:51,080
intersection and

837
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:51,580
interaction

838
00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:52,620
with older

839
00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:53,240
systems of

840
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:53,760
record or

841
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:54,440
older API

842
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:54,940
and older

843
00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:55,780
legacy systems.

844
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:56,360
Now,

845
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:56,640
now,

846
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:57,280
now this is

847
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:57,840
another

848
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,140
parenthetical

849
00:19:59,140 --> 00:19:59,660
footnote,

850
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:00,320
so to speak,

851
00:20:00,860 --> 00:20:01,180
you know,

852
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:02,060
over the years

853
00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:02,660
when it comes

854
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:05,020
to external

855
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:06,020
services that

856
00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:06,440
are hard to

857
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:06,700
change,

858
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:07,060
people are

859
00:20:07,060 --> 00:20:07,580
always talking

860
00:20:07,580 --> 00:20:08,140
about the

861
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:09,200
strangler

862
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,000
pattern named

863
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:10,720
after the,

864
00:20:10,940 --> 00:20:11,480
as I like to

865
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:11,640
say,

866
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:12,280
named after the

867
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:12,460
tree,

868
00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:12,860
not the

869
00:20:12,860 --> 00:20:13,200
psychopath,

870
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:14,300
even though

871
00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:14,800
you may wish

872
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:15,080
for the

873
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:15,320
second.

874
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:15,620
And,

875
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:16,800
you know,

876
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:18,200
is that

877
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:18,540
real?

878
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:19,240
Do people

879
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,000
actually use

880
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:20,400
strangler

881
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,280
patterns a

882
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:22,240
lot successfully

883
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:22,720
or is it

884
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:23,160
just something

885
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:23,880
that's fanciful?

886
00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:24,940
No,

887
00:20:25,060 --> 00:20:25,440
it's all,

888
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:26,320
you use it

889
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:26,880
all the time

890
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:27,320
and that's

891
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:27,560
like,

892
00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:28,000
this is

893
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:28,640
perfect segue

894
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:29,140
to my

895
00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:30,020
next third

896
00:20:30,020 --> 00:20:30,440
swim lane.

897
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:31,520
I got this

898
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:32,320
massive app,

899
00:20:32,380 --> 00:20:32,600
right,

900
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:33,220
which I need

901
00:20:33,220 --> 00:20:33,980
to modernize.

902
00:20:34,420 --> 00:20:34,920
How do I

903
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:35,460
do this,

904
00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:35,820
right?

905
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:36,760
And this

906
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,460
is where

907
00:20:37,460 --> 00:20:38,020
when the

908
00:20:38,020 --> 00:20:38,660
application is

909
00:20:38,660 --> 00:20:39,140
so massive

910
00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:40,460
and you

911
00:20:40,460 --> 00:20:41,140
can't really

912
00:20:41,140 --> 00:20:42,060
leverage your

913
00:20:42,060 --> 00:20:42,580
traditional

914
00:20:42,580 --> 00:20:43,520
techniques of

915
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:44,480
lift and

916
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,420
shift and

917
00:20:45,420 --> 00:20:45,800
like just

918
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:46,600
containerize it.

919
00:20:46,660 --> 00:20:46,760
Like,

920
00:20:46,780 --> 00:20:47,260
I can't do

921
00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:47,440
that.

922
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:48,000
I need to

923
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:48,740
break this

924
00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:49,300
thing down.

925
00:20:49,620 --> 00:20:50,220
And so,

926
00:20:50,300 --> 00:20:50,880
so like,

927
00:20:50,940 --> 00:20:51,600
why is that?

928
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:51,880
Like,

929
00:20:51,940 --> 00:20:53,060
why can't

930
00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:53,340
you do

931
00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:53,640
that?

932
00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:54,840
So,

933
00:20:54,980 --> 00:20:55,500
why you

934
00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:56,020
can't do

935
00:20:56,020 --> 00:20:56,940
that is

936
00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:58,280
earlier,

937
00:20:58,540 --> 00:20:58,900
like about

938
00:20:58,900 --> 00:20:59,480
a couple

939
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:00,180
of years

940
00:21:00,180 --> 00:21:00,540
ago,

941
00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:01,180
like

942
00:21:01,180 --> 00:21:02,020
containerization

943
00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:02,660
technology

944
00:21:02,660 --> 00:21:03,740
just hadn't

945
00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:04,440
moved to

946
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:04,980
the point

947
00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:05,820
where you

948
00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:06,520
can fit

949
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:06,860
in a

950
00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:07,280
massive

951
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,000
JVM,

952
00:21:08,460 --> 00:21:09,020
like,

953
00:21:09,140 --> 00:21:09,500
around

954
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:10,080
4 gigs,

955
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:10,680
8 gigs,

956
00:21:10,780 --> 00:21:11,340
16 gigs

957
00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:11,860
of memory

958
00:21:11,860 --> 00:21:12,480
and run

959
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:13,600
it reliably

960
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,380
inside

961
00:21:14,380 --> 00:21:14,900
Kubernetes,

962
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:15,320
right?

963
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:16,280
Now,

964
00:21:17,020 --> 00:21:17,800
you can

965
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:18,320
do that.

966
00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:18,600
Like,

967
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:18,920
it's,

968
00:21:19,180 --> 00:21:19,440
so the,

969
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:20,280
you could

970
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:21,440
potentially run

971
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:22,520
a 32 gig

972
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,480
JVM

973
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:24,120
or run

974
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:25,060
three massive

975
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:25,620
apps,

976
00:21:25,860 --> 00:21:26,500
but then you

977
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:26,820
run into

978
00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:27,400
other issues

979
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:27,960
where if you

980
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:28,500
just lift

981
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:29,000
and shift

982
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,060
these massive

983
00:21:30,060 --> 00:21:30,620
applications,

984
00:21:31,260 --> 00:21:31,860
they have

985
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:32,580
a complete

986
00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:33,200
lifecycle

987
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:33,960
management

988
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:34,440
that is,

989
00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:35,720
that fights

990
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:36,980
what Kubernetes

991
00:21:36,980 --> 00:21:37,760
is trying to

992
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:38,240
do to the

993
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:38,740
application,

994
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:39,120
right?

995
00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:40,340
So these

996
00:21:40,340 --> 00:21:41,340
massive

997
00:21:41,340 --> 00:21:42,120
applications

998
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:42,620
have been

999
00:21:42,620 --> 00:21:43,680
written on

1000
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:44,620
WebSphere

1001
00:21:44,620 --> 00:21:45,540
or WebLogic

1002
00:21:45,540 --> 00:21:46,480
and they

1003
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:47,180
are completely

1004
00:21:47,180 --> 00:21:48,060
married to

1005
00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:48,980
how these

1006
00:21:48,980 --> 00:21:49,780
proprietary app

1007
00:21:49,780 --> 00:21:50,520
servers manage

1008
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:50,780
them.

1009
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:51,580
They have,

1010
00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:52,320
they make

1011
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:53,000
very,

1012
00:21:53,540 --> 00:21:54,120
they are very

1013
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:54,960
incestuous

1014
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,780
in terms of

1015
00:21:56,780 --> 00:21:57,140
how they

1016
00:21:57,140 --> 00:21:57,780
interact with

1017
00:21:57,780 --> 00:21:58,280
one another,

1018
00:21:58,740 --> 00:21:59,140
they make

1019
00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:00,000
deep assumptions

1020
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:00,760
about the

1021
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:01,560
platforms that

1022
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:02,140
they run on,

1023
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:02,740
they have

1024
00:22:02,740 --> 00:22:03,060
certain

1025
00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:03,820
optimizations

1026
00:22:03,820 --> 00:22:04,440
and networking

1027
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:05,180
protocols that

1028
00:22:05,180 --> 00:22:05,980
you can't

1029
00:22:05,980 --> 00:22:06,700
find in the

1030
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:07,060
cloud,

1031
00:22:07,540 --> 00:22:08,220
they reach

1032
00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:08,680
across

1033
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:09,100
different

1034
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:09,440
modules

1035
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:09,880
because they

1036
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:10,080
are a

1037
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:10,300
single

1038
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:10,760
monolith,

1039
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:11,160
they have

1040
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:11,460
no,

1041
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:12,300
like there

1042
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:13,060
are no

1043
00:22:13,060 --> 00:22:13,800
boundaries in

1044
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:14,040
between,

1045
00:22:14,140 --> 00:22:14,420
they reach

1046
00:22:14,420 --> 00:22:14,740
across

1047
00:22:14,740 --> 00:22:15,040
different

1048
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:15,500
packages.

1049
00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:16,780
And so

1050
00:22:16,780 --> 00:22:18,300
you can

1051
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:19,140
try and

1052
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:20,080
maybe today

1053
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,440
now like

1054
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,140
in 2021,

1055
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:22,820
you could

1056
00:22:22,820 --> 00:22:23,680
potentially move

1057
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:24,100
these three

1058
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:24,780
massive apps

1059
00:22:24,780 --> 00:22:25,140
and run

1060
00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:25,420
them on

1061
00:22:25,420 --> 00:22:25,800
Kubernetes,

1062
00:22:26,420 --> 00:22:27,060
but they

1063
00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:27,440
would not

1064
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:27,840
operate

1065
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:28,260
correctly.

1066
00:22:28,460 --> 00:22:28,760
And in

1067
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:29,000
fact,

1068
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,300
you may be

1069
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:30,720
able to do

1070
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:30,820
it,

1071
00:22:30,860 --> 00:22:31,260
but you may

1072
00:22:31,260 --> 00:22:31,620
be in a

1073
00:22:31,620 --> 00:22:32,240
worse position

1074
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:32,540
than you

1075
00:22:32,540 --> 00:22:33,060
started off

1076
00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:33,220
it.

1077
00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:33,740
you might

1078
00:22:33,740 --> 00:22:34,060
actually

1079
00:22:34,060 --> 00:22:34,500
encounter

1080
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:35,060
more pain.

1081
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:35,760
So do you

1082
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:36,600
really want

1083
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:36,880
to go

1084
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:37,140
there?

1085
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:37,480
Right?

1086
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,120
Like you

1087
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:38,440
have to

1088
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:38,800
make that

1089
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:39,240
assessment.

1090
00:22:39,580 --> 00:22:40,080
Like am I

1091
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,660
like you

1092
00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:42,200
might be

1093
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,200
making it

1094
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:43,920
truly worse

1095
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:44,560
rather than

1096
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:44,980
improving

1097
00:22:44,980 --> 00:22:45,240
things.

1098
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:45,520
So this

1099
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:45,700
is a

1100
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:45,980
judgment

1101
00:22:45,980 --> 00:22:46,380
call that

1102
00:22:46,380 --> 00:22:46,640
you need

1103
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:46,920
to make.

1104
00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:47,400
Yeah,

1105
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:47,720
yeah,

1106
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:47,860
yeah.

1107
00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:48,180
You had

1108
00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:49,980
a this

1109
00:22:49,980 --> 00:22:50,580
week sometime

1110
00:22:50,580 --> 00:22:51,120
you published

1111
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:51,640
a great

1112
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,280
article in

1113
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,320
InfoQ and

1114
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:53,540
I think

1115
00:22:53,540 --> 00:22:54,080
there was a

1116
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:54,320
part of

1117
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:54,480
that,

1118
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:54,860
you know,

1119
00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:55,240
you kind

1120
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,600
of explained

1121
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:57,120
even more

1122
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:57,460
of this

1123
00:22:57,460 --> 00:22:58,540
where to

1124
00:22:58,540 --> 00:22:58,900
do it in

1125
00:22:58,900 --> 00:22:59,460
the optimistic

1126
00:22:59,460 --> 00:22:59,880
way.

1127
00:22:59,940 --> 00:23:00,620
way back

1128
00:23:00,620 --> 00:23:01,460
when there

1129
00:23:01,460 --> 00:23:01,700
was,

1130
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:02,140
you know,

1131
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:02,980
JEE and

1132
00:23:02,980 --> 00:23:03,660
app servers

1133
00:23:03,660 --> 00:23:04,140
and it

1134
00:23:04,140 --> 00:23:04,620
was great.

1135
00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:05,160
Everything

1136
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:05,720
worked really

1137
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:06,040
well.

1138
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,060
And as

1139
00:23:07,060 --> 00:23:07,560
this is

1140
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:08,080
another

1141
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:08,720
speaking of

1142
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:09,080
the phrase

1143
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:09,840
dirty secret,

1144
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:10,100
I don't

1145
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:10,280
know if

1146
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:10,440
there's

1147
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,140
clean secrets,

1148
00:23:11,620 --> 00:23:11,860
but one

1149
00:23:11,860 --> 00:23:12,140
of the

1150
00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:13,140
secrets of

1151
00:23:13,140 --> 00:23:13,520
like,

1152
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,320
what would

1153
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:15,640
you call

1154
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:15,800
it?

1155
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:16,320
I think

1156
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:16,520
all

1157
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,060
programming

1158
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:17,760
probably

1159
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:18,920
is that,

1160
00:23:19,060 --> 00:23:19,860
I don't

1161
00:23:19,860 --> 00:23:20,120
know,

1162
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:21,000
it just

1163
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:21,680
rots after

1164
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,180
about three

1165
00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:22,600
or five

1166
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:22,980
years.

1167
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:24,660
And the

1168
00:23:24,660 --> 00:23:25,960
reason it

1169
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:26,400
rots is

1170
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:26,760
not the

1171
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:27,340
software and

1172
00:23:27,340 --> 00:23:27,520
you were

1173
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:28,100
explaining this,

1174
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:28,720
but it's a

1175
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:29,920
it's a

1176
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:30,540
would you

1177
00:23:30,540 --> 00:23:30,900
call it a

1178
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:31,580
social issue?

1179
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:32,040
It's like a

1180
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:32,700
person issue

1181
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:33,240
where people

1182
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,040
just like

1183
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,960
sort of

1184
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,120
to say they

1185
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:37,540
get bored

1186
00:23:37,540 --> 00:23:37,960
is to be

1187
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:38,560
dismissive,

1188
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:39,200
but there

1189
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:39,660
are other

1190
00:23:39,660 --> 00:23:40,120
things they

1191
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:40,640
start paying

1192
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:41,240
attention to

1193
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:41,500
and they

1194
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:42,000
start making

1195
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:42,540
this series

1196
00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:43,300
of decisions

1197
00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:44,700
where like

1198
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:46,140
they're going

1199
00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:46,820
to get around

1200
00:23:46,820 --> 00:23:47,640
to this older

1201
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:48,160
thing and

1202
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:48,380
they're going

1203
00:23:48,380 --> 00:23:48,880
to get around

1204
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:49,300
to it until

1205
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:50,400
finally they

1206
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:50,920
never get

1207
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:51,500
around to it

1208
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:51,800
and people

1209
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:52,240
have forgotten

1210
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:52,620
how it

1211
00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:53,560
works and

1212
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:53,900
it just

1213
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:54,860
like hasn't

1214
00:23:54,860 --> 00:23:55,460
been updated

1215
00:23:55,460 --> 00:23:56,380
and it becomes

1216
00:23:56,380 --> 00:23:56,920
neglected.

1217
00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:58,140
And so what

1218
00:23:58,140 --> 00:23:58,640
was once

1219
00:23:58,640 --> 00:23:59,040
like a

1220
00:23:59,040 --> 00:23:59,500
really nice

1221
00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:00,120
app server

1222
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:00,640
or whatever

1223
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:01,260
is now

1224
00:24:01,260 --> 00:24:02,560
just it

1225
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,340
hasn't been

1226
00:24:03,340 --> 00:24:04,780
updated to

1227
00:24:04,780 --> 00:24:05,440
run in

1228
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:06,320
modern ways

1229
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,180
for years

1230
00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:07,560
and years.

1231
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:07,900
It's sort

1232
00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:08,280
of like

1233
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,320
discovering

1234
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,740
it'd be like

1235
00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:11,200
it'd be like

1236
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:11,580
if someone

1237
00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:12,100
came,

1238
00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:13,260
I don't know,

1239
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:14,360
time traveled

1240
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:15,300
from England

1241
00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:16,580
in the 1530s

1242
00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:17,340
and their

1243
00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:18,480
language would

1244
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:19,380
be incompatible

1245
00:24:19,380 --> 00:24:19,900
even though

1246
00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:20,540
technically they

1247
00:24:20,540 --> 00:24:21,120
speak English.

1248
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:21,560
It would just

1249
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,140
be a totally

1250
00:24:22,140 --> 00:24:22,680
different

1251
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:23,700
They would

1252
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:24,480
speak medieval

1253
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,460
or old English.

1254
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:26,000
That's right.

1255
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:26,640
That's right.

1256
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:27,480
Like those

1257
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,000
movies where

1258
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:28,820
cavemans are

1259
00:24:28,820 --> 00:24:29,560
defrosted.

1260
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:30,540
Cave people.

1261
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,560
Some people

1262
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,260
say that all

1263
00:24:33,260 --> 00:24:34,360
modernization is

1264
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:35,400
basically converting

1265
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,460
a 20-year-old

1266
00:24:36,460 --> 00:24:37,700
stack to a

1267
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:38,800
five-year-old

1268
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:39,880
age stack.

1269
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,640
It's what it

1270
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:41,920
is.

1271
00:24:43,060 --> 00:24:43,640
Like Brandon

1272
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:44,580
the other day

1273
00:24:44,580 --> 00:24:45,220
on I think

1274
00:24:45,220 --> 00:24:46,300
Lord Podcast

1275
00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:46,900
or someone else

1276
00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:48,220
said the best

1277
00:24:48,220 --> 00:24:48,620
thing to do

1278
00:24:48,620 --> 00:24:49,320
is on January

1279
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,160
1 just shut

1280
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:50,640
down all the

1281
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:51,660
apps and

1282
00:24:51,660 --> 00:24:52,400
then see who

1283
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,220
complains and

1284
00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:54,260
start the

1285
00:24:54,260 --> 00:24:54,820
ones up

1286
00:24:54,820 --> 00:24:55,300
that people

1287
00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:55,880
complain and

1288
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:56,240
give them

1289
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:56,960
ownership for

1290
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:57,720
modernizing them.

1291
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:58,120
Yeah.

1292
00:24:58,620 --> 00:24:59,560
That comes up

1293
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:00,480
in compliance

1294
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,140
a lot too.

1295
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:02,320
Just try not

1296
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:03,220
following some

1297
00:25:03,220 --> 00:25:04,620
compliance thing

1298
00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:05,100
and see if

1299
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:05,860
anything happens.

1300
00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:08,500
Usually you

1301
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:08,980
find things

1302
00:25:08,980 --> 00:25:09,340
don't.

1303
00:25:10,580 --> 00:25:11,580
So these

1304
00:25:11,580 --> 00:25:14,180
massive

1305
00:25:14,180 --> 00:25:14,680
monolithic

1306
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,920
apps, why

1307
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:16,240
do they

1308
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:16,940
become big?

1309
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:20,140
we get into

1310
00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:20,600
how to take

1311
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:21,000
them to the

1312
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,260
cloud.

1313
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:21,760
But just

1314
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:22,440
like these

1315
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,520
are literally

1316
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:24,420
heritage apps

1317
00:25:24,420 --> 00:25:25,220
that generate

1318
00:25:25,220 --> 00:25:25,740
a lot of

1319
00:25:25,740 --> 00:25:26,860
money for

1320
00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:27,380
the business.

1321
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:28,340
There is

1322
00:25:28,340 --> 00:25:29,060
active feature

1323
00:25:29,060 --> 00:25:29,780
development that

1324
00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:30,460
is going on

1325
00:25:30,460 --> 00:25:30,820
on these

1326
00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:31,340
applications.

1327
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,200
And what

1328
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:33,780
has happened

1329
00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:34,400
is certain

1330
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,120
decisions got

1331
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:35,620
made in the

1332
00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:36,280
past that

1333
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:36,780
led to

1334
00:25:36,780 --> 00:25:37,700
technical debt.

1335
00:25:38,420 --> 00:25:39,400
All applications

1336
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:40,020
have technical

1337
00:25:40,020 --> 00:25:40,280
debt.

1338
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:41,620
Just a matter

1339
00:25:41,620 --> 00:25:42,860
of is it

1340
00:25:42,860 --> 00:25:43,540
good debt or

1341
00:25:43,540 --> 00:25:44,100
bad debt?

1342
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:44,640
Right?

1343
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:45,620
And so the

1344
00:25:45,620 --> 00:25:46,700
debt basically

1345
00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:47,600
simply keeps

1346
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:48,440
accumulating on

1347
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,000
top of the

1348
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:49,880
other because

1349
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:50,200
you have to

1350
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:50,500
do new

1351
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:50,780
feature

1352
00:25:50,780 --> 00:25:51,240
development.

1353
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:51,920
And at

1354
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:52,640
some point,

1355
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,320
it's more

1356
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:54,880
like a call

1357
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:55,260
option.

1358
00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:56,680
At some

1359
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:57,600
point, you

1360
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,320
have to

1361
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,100
pay for

1362
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:00,540
the option.

1363
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,360
Hopefully, if

1364
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:03,660
you have

1365
00:26:03,660 --> 00:26:04,540
architected it

1366
00:26:04,540 --> 00:26:05,580
correctly, it

1367
00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:06,300
never comes to

1368
00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:06,900
the point where

1369
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:07,800
you have to

1370
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,480
modernize it.

1371
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,460
But in some

1372
00:26:10,460 --> 00:26:11,620
cases, like for

1373
00:26:11,620 --> 00:26:12,080
instance, with

1374
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:12,720
this COVID

1375
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:13,720
pandemic, your

1376
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:14,600
hand gets

1377
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,240
forced and you

1378
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,220
absolutely have to

1379
00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:16,840
modernize because

1380
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,060
application cannot

1381
00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:18,800
sustain the

1382
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:19,160
pace of

1383
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:19,500
business

1384
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:20,020
features that

1385
00:26:20,020 --> 00:26:20,440
need to get

1386
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:20,740
added.

1387
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:22,580
So it's a

1388
00:26:22,580 --> 00:26:23,860
delicate balance

1389
00:26:23,860 --> 00:26:24,400
of when do

1390
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,120
you modernize

1391
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:25,800
a critical

1392
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:26,680
system, critical

1393
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:27,300
app that

1394
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:28,280
generates tons

1395
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:28,820
of revenue.

1396
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,920
But usually,

1397
00:26:31,460 --> 00:26:32,360
if you pay

1398
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:33,020
attention to how

1399
00:26:33,020 --> 00:26:33,680
you're accumulating

1400
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,500
technical debt,

1401
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:35,720
you can

1402
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:36,440
postpone

1403
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,580
modernization

1404
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:40,200
to a point

1405
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:40,680
where you're

1406
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,360
comfortable with

1407
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:41,500
it.

1408
00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:42,140
If you don't

1409
00:26:42,140 --> 00:26:42,760
do that, then

1410
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:43,360
at some point,

1411
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:44,400
the option is

1412
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,060
going to expire

1413
00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:45,480
and you

1414
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:46,040
will have to

1415
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:46,520
modernize

1416
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,020
at a time

1417
00:26:48,020 --> 00:26:48,420
which may

1418
00:26:48,420 --> 00:26:48,940
not be so

1419
00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:49,360
good for

1420
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:49,520
you.

1421
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:50,280
So you

1422
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:50,660
have to

1423
00:26:50,660 --> 00:26:51,120
think about

1424
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:51,380
that.

1425
00:26:51,580 --> 00:26:52,100
So talk

1426
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:52,480
about that

1427
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:52,880
more, about

1428
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:53,200
how you

1429
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:53,500
make the

1430
00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:54,400
decision to

1431
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,580
postpone

1432
00:26:55,580 --> 00:26:56,880
doing anything.

1433
00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:57,780
When do

1434
00:26:57,780 --> 00:26:58,360
you decide

1435
00:26:58,360 --> 00:26:59,540
to, I

1436
00:26:59,540 --> 00:26:59,740
don't know,

1437
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:00,320
metaphorically

1438
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:00,780
speaking,

1439
00:27:01,340 --> 00:27:02,280
refinance your

1440
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,200
technical debt

1441
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:03,800
rather than

1442
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:04,340
pay it all

1443
00:27:04,340 --> 00:27:04,560
off?

1444
00:27:06,180 --> 00:27:07,020
That's a good

1445
00:27:07,020 --> 00:27:07,680
question.

1446
00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:09,340
So the

1447
00:27:09,340 --> 00:27:10,180
way, if I

1448
00:27:10,180 --> 00:27:10,760
were a VP

1449
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:11,360
of line of

1450
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:12,520
business, if

1451
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:13,400
this application

1452
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,000
is able to

1453
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,580
provide the

1454
00:27:16,580 --> 00:27:18,200
features, like

1455
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,620
if I'm able

1456
00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:20,260
to meet the

1457
00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:20,980
needs of the

1458
00:27:20,980 --> 00:27:22,520
business in

1459
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,480
a time, fashion

1460
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:25,140
and horizon

1461
00:27:25,140 --> 00:27:26,580
that is suitable

1462
00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:27,620
for them, we

1463
00:27:27,620 --> 00:27:28,200
are able to

1464
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,260
add features to

1465
00:27:29,260 --> 00:27:29,940
the application,

1466
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:30,720
business is

1467
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,860
happy, right?

1468
00:27:32,980 --> 00:27:33,820
Our own

1469
00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:34,540
customers that

1470
00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:35,140
use the app

1471
00:27:35,140 --> 00:27:35,680
are happy.

1472
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:37,500
At that point,

1473
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:38,280
like, okay, I

1474
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:38,820
have stabilized

1475
00:27:38,820 --> 00:27:39,680
this application,

1476
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:41,140
I'm primarily in

1477
00:27:41,140 --> 00:27:41,760
value capture

1478
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:42,460
mode, right?

1479
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,840
But in some

1480
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:44,540
cases, there

1481
00:27:44,540 --> 00:27:45,280
is a new

1482
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,120
business driver,

1483
00:27:46,260 --> 00:27:46,700
like a new

1484
00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:47,740
digital experience

1485
00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:49,000
or my retail

1486
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:49,540
load has

1487
00:27:49,540 --> 00:27:49,920
tripled.

1488
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:50,640
There is some

1489
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:51,460
key critical

1490
00:27:51,460 --> 00:27:52,340
business driver,

1491
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:53,380
like I'm

1492
00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:53,960
paying billions

1493
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:54,600
of dollars to

1494
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,380
IBM, I

1495
00:27:55,380 --> 00:27:55,880
would like to

1496
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:56,440
stop paying

1497
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:57,600
them for

1498
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:58,100
MIPS on

1499
00:27:58,100 --> 00:27:58,680
the mainframe.

1500
00:27:59,160 --> 00:27:59,760
Then at that

1501
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,280
point, I have

1502
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:00,740
a massive

1503
00:28:00,740 --> 00:28:01,840
business driver

1504
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:02,820
to spend

1505
00:28:02,820 --> 00:28:03,760
the money

1506
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:04,360
and time

1507
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:05,300
on modernizing

1508
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:06,140
a monolithic

1509
00:28:06,140 --> 00:28:06,900
application like

1510
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:07,040
this.

1511
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:07,640
And usually

1512
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:08,140
that is when

1513
00:28:08,140 --> 00:28:08,780
it is successful,

1514
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:09,420
is when there

1515
00:28:09,420 --> 00:28:09,900
is a key

1516
00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:11,280
driver, COVID

1517
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,360
or digital

1518
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:13,800
experience or

1519
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,920
volumes going

1520
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,940
up or like

1521
00:28:15,940 --> 00:28:18,040
something and

1522
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:18,700
then you use

1523
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:19,700
that vector to

1524
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:20,540
modernize the

1525
00:28:20,540 --> 00:28:21,600
legacy application.

1526
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,060
Yeah, that's

1527
00:28:23,060 --> 00:28:24,520
kind of a

1528
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:25,760
theory, our

1529
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,300
fellow co-worker.

1530
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:28,440
I guess that's

1531
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,080
redundant, but

1532
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:29,860
our co-worker

1533
00:28:29,860 --> 00:28:30,700
Rick Clark and

1534
00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:31,500
I discuss on

1535
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:32,320
a little

1536
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,040
ongoing podcast

1537
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:33,860
series we have

1538
00:28:33,860 --> 00:28:36,680
where basically

1539
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,280
in order to

1540
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:39,320
change, you

1541
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:39,660
need a

1542
00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:40,140
crisis.

1543
00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:43,240
There's a

1544
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:43,940
minority of

1545
00:28:43,940 --> 00:28:44,620
cases where

1546
00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:48,840
you proactively

1547
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:49,380
have a

1548
00:28:49,380 --> 00:28:49,840
crisis.

1549
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:51,480
But in

1550
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,420
general, unless

1551
00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:52,940
there's something

1552
00:28:52,940 --> 00:28:53,380
that comes

1553
00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:54,000
up, it's

1554
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,280
like the

1555
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:54,860
situation you

1556
00:28:54,860 --> 00:28:55,220
were talking

1557
00:28:55,220 --> 00:28:55,500
about.

1558
00:28:55,580 --> 00:28:55,780
When you

1559
00:28:55,780 --> 00:28:56,020
do the

1560
00:28:56,020 --> 00:28:56,300
business

1561
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:56,900
evaluation,

1562
00:28:57,180 --> 00:28:58,080
it's fine.

1563
00:28:58,540 --> 00:28:58,940
There's no

1564
00:28:58,940 --> 00:28:59,300
reason.

1565
00:28:59,740 --> 00:29:00,340
If your

1566
00:29:00,340 --> 00:29:00,840
costs aren't

1567
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:01,100
out of

1568
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:02,220
control, if

1569
00:29:02,220 --> 00:29:02,740
your customer

1570
00:29:02,740 --> 00:29:03,760
satisfaction is

1571
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:04,460
good, if

1572
00:29:04,460 --> 00:29:04,860
the revenue

1573
00:29:04,860 --> 00:29:05,260
is coming

1574
00:29:05,260 --> 00:29:05,960
in, it's

1575
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:06,280
sort of

1576
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:06,560
like,

1577
00:29:06,780 --> 00:29:07,020
yeah,

1578
00:29:07,740 --> 00:29:08,240
everything's

1579
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:08,680
all right.

1580
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,800
Whereas you

1581
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:10,340
need some

1582
00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:10,780
kind of

1583
00:29:10,780 --> 00:29:11,120
pressure,

1584
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:11,700
unless you're

1585
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:12,760
like the

1586
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,380
metaphorical

1587
00:29:13,380 --> 00:29:14,060
equivalent of

1588
00:29:14,060 --> 00:29:14,380
a health

1589
00:29:14,380 --> 00:29:14,900
nut that's

1590
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:15,920
just proactively

1591
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,160
jogging every

1592
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:17,680
day and eating

1593
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:18,300
really healthy.

1594
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,320
Like, yeah,

1595
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,920
it's annoying,

1596
00:29:22,620 --> 00:29:24,080
but I guess

1597
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:24,800
that kind of

1598
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,420
stasis is

1599
00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:27,400
kind of

1600
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,180
nice to

1601
00:29:29,180 --> 00:29:29,420
be.

1602
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:32,240
That is nice

1603
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:32,600
to be.

1604
00:29:32,820 --> 00:29:33,840
Like, people

1605
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:34,440
say technical

1606
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:35,140
debt is bad.

1607
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:35,440
I mean,

1608
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:36,060
whenever you

1609
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:36,540
write a single

1610
00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:36,900
line of

1611
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:37,200
code, you

1612
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,500
are adding

1613
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:37,920
technical

1614
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:38,260
debt.

1615
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:39,580
Unless you

1616
00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:40,120
are deleting

1617
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:40,920
code, then

1618
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,200
you are

1619
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,480
actually reducing

1620
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:43,300
technical debt.

1621
00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:44,220
But even

1622
00:29:44,220 --> 00:29:44,620
when you

1623
00:29:44,620 --> 00:29:45,500
write, like,

1624
00:29:45,980 --> 00:29:46,820
think about

1625
00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:47,420
it in debt

1626
00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:47,840
terms.

1627
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:48,320
when you're

1628
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:48,820
writing a

1629
00:29:48,820 --> 00:29:49,260
greenfield

1630
00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:49,760
application,

1631
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:51,020
think about

1632
00:29:51,020 --> 00:29:51,480
it as just

1633
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,300
transferring from

1634
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:52,740
a high

1635
00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:53,320
percentage

1636
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,600
APR to a

1637
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:55,540
lower percentage

1638
00:29:55,540 --> 00:29:56,060
APR.

1639
00:29:56,140 --> 00:29:56,520
You're still

1640
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:57,040
going to have

1641
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:57,560
some technical

1642
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:57,960
debt when you

1643
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:58,220
write the

1644
00:29:58,220 --> 00:29:58,860
new application

1645
00:29:58,860 --> 00:29:59,780
or strangle

1646
00:29:59,780 --> 00:30:00,380
the application,

1647
00:30:00,620 --> 00:30:01,480
but it's at

1648
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:02,340
a much lower,

1649
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:03,560
higher quality

1650
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:04,820
debt that can

1651
00:30:04,820 --> 00:30:05,380
get repaid

1652
00:30:05,380 --> 00:30:06,040
much faster.

1653
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,300
so the debt

1654
00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:08,600
and the

1655
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:09,060
financial

1656
00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:09,780
analogies

1657
00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:10,800
apply really

1658
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:11,400
nice to

1659
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:11,720
this.

1660
00:30:11,980 --> 00:30:12,200
I think

1661
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:13,020
Domain would

1662
00:30:13,020 --> 00:30:13,520
like that.

1663
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:13,920
She did,

1664
00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:14,200
I think,

1665
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:14,880
a talk based

1666
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,640
on derivatives.

1667
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,580
maybe one of

1668
00:30:19,580 --> 00:30:19,720
these

1669
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:20,180
convolutions,

1670
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:20,640
we can

1671
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:21,280
model

1672
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:21,840
technical

1673
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:22,300
data as

1674
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:22,620
a call

1675
00:30:22,620 --> 00:30:23,540
option and

1676
00:30:23,540 --> 00:30:24,260
then talk

1677
00:30:24,260 --> 00:30:24,700
through that.

1678
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:25,000
Sure.

1679
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:26,920
So I

1680
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:27,420
distracted

1681
00:30:27,420 --> 00:30:28,540
you and

1682
00:30:28,540 --> 00:30:28,880
the point

1683
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:29,140
you were

1684
00:30:29,140 --> 00:30:29,760
making is

1685
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:30,940
you have

1686
00:30:30,940 --> 00:30:31,800
found

1687
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,760
things,

1688
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,080
you had

1689
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:34,440
this other

1690
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:34,880
class of

1691
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:35,360
things that

1692
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:35,700
were like

1693
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:36,460
these problems

1694
00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:37,200
that made

1695
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:37,500
it very

1696
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:38,360
difficult to

1697
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,160
modernize

1698
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:39,960
these apps.

1699
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:40,980
Correct.

1700
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:41,780
And so

1701
00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:42,200
now we

1702
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:42,880
begin with,

1703
00:30:42,980 --> 00:30:43,100
okay,

1704
00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:43,740
I want

1705
00:30:43,740 --> 00:30:44,060
to know,

1706
00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:44,600
so now

1707
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:45,460
you know

1708
00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:45,780
that you

1709
00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:46,220
want to

1710
00:30:46,220 --> 00:30:46,700
modernize

1711
00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:47,240
the application.

1712
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,500
So customers

1713
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:49,100
then I

1714
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:49,720
want to

1715
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,380
know,

1716
00:30:50,540 --> 00:30:50,780
right,

1717
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,440
the process

1718
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:53,640
to modernize

1719
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,000
the app,

1720
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:54,400
like the

1721
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:54,960
process,

1722
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:55,740
the tools

1723
00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:56,120
and the

1724
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:56,480
techniques

1725
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:56,780
to,

1726
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:57,220
I'm going

1727
00:30:57,220 --> 00:30:57,440
to just

1728
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:58,060
modernize

1729
00:30:58,060 --> 00:30:59,060
the app.

1730
00:30:59,400 --> 00:30:59,840
So this

1731
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:00,980
is key

1732
00:31:00,980 --> 00:31:01,420
now at

1733
00:31:01,420 --> 00:31:01,900
this point,

1734
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:02,180
right?

1735
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:03,080
But when

1736
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:03,500
they want

1737
00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:04,260
to modernize,

1738
00:31:04,460 --> 00:31:05,000
they want

1739
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,000
to do,

1740
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:06,580
they should

1741
00:31:06,580 --> 00:31:07,060
do it in

1742
00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:07,580
a fashion

1743
00:31:07,580 --> 00:31:08,380
that is

1744
00:31:08,380 --> 00:31:09,100
iterative

1745
00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:09,900
right?

1746
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:10,240
And

1747
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:10,960
demonstrates

1748
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:11,960
actual ROI

1749
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:12,320
to the

1750
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:12,700
business.

1751
00:31:13,380 --> 00:31:14,440
And I

1752
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:14,680
will get

1753
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,240
into the

1754
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:16,620
technical

1755
00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:17,240
factors of

1756
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:17,560
how to

1757
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:17,960
do this.

1758
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:18,680
So this

1759
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:19,600
is plan

1760
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:20,280
and prioritize

1761
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,400
and this

1762
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:21,740
is,

1763
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:22,580
I would

1764
00:31:22,580 --> 00:31:22,780
say,

1765
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:23,360
modernize.

1766
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:23,960
We have

1767
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:24,360
now gone

1768
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:24,720
into the

1769
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:25,220
modernize

1770
00:31:25,220 --> 00:31:25,520
section,

1771
00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:26,280
right?

1772
00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:27,360
So you

1773
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:27,920
want to

1774
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:28,540
modernize

1775
00:31:28,540 --> 00:31:28,920
in a

1776
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:29,140
very

1777
00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:29,740
iterative

1778
00:31:29,740 --> 00:31:31,500
way to

1779
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:32,200
demonstrate

1780
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,460
ROI to

1781
00:31:33,460 --> 00:31:34,000
the business

1782
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:34,940
and on

1783
00:31:34,940 --> 00:31:35,460
this side,

1784
00:31:35,860 --> 00:31:36,300
I want

1785
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:37,140
to re-platform

1786
00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:37,860
the application,

1787
00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:38,440
right?

1788
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:39,360
I'm making

1789
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,160
minimal changes

1790
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:40,520
to the

1791
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:41,780
application so

1792
00:31:41,780 --> 00:31:42,360
that I

1793
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:42,940
can land

1794
00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:43,360
at the

1795
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,560
right cloud

1796
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:45,060
native,

1797
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:46,220
at the

1798
00:31:46,220 --> 00:31:46,820
right cloud

1799
00:31:46,820 --> 00:31:47,240
native

1800
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,040
pit stop,

1801
00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:49,160
subway stop

1802
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:49,460
for my

1803
00:31:49,460 --> 00:31:49,800
application.

1804
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:50,160
So there

1805
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:50,900
are two

1806
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:51,440
ways here.

1807
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:52,140
There's the

1808
00:31:52,140 --> 00:31:52,900
re-platforming,

1809
00:31:53,420 --> 00:31:53,860
which some

1810
00:31:53,860 --> 00:31:54,600
people, I

1811
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,020
don't like to

1812
00:31:55,020 --> 00:31:55,280
call it

1813
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:55,760
lift and

1814
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:55,860
change.

1815
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:56,300
So this

1816
00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:57,000
is re-platform

1817
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:57,820
and this

1818
00:31:57,820 --> 00:31:58,460
is the

1819
00:31:58,460 --> 00:31:59,580
modernized

1820
00:31:59,580 --> 00:32:00,620
path and

1821
00:32:00,620 --> 00:32:01,240
this is the

1822
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:01,920
new development

1823
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:02,380
path.

1824
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:03,300
So like

1825
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:04,460
re-platform,

1826
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:04,860
develop,

1827
00:32:04,980 --> 00:32:05,600
or modernize.

1828
00:32:05,740 --> 00:32:06,360
You have

1829
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,240
now come

1830
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:08,340
into these

1831
00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:10,340
three stops.

1832
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,000
So let's

1833
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,460
come back.

1834
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:12,100
So now let's

1835
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:12,560
go to our

1836
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:13,440
next screen.

1837
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:14,580
So we

1838
00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:15,380
have the

1839
00:32:15,380 --> 00:32:17,120
re-platform

1840
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:17,740
quadrant,

1841
00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:18,540
right?

1842
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:19,600
So I

1843
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:20,040
have a

1844
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:20,640
whole bunch

1845
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,460
of applications

1846
00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:22,840
that I

1847
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:23,260
would like

1848
00:32:23,260 --> 00:32:24,480
to take

1849
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:24,820
to the

1850
00:32:24,820 --> 00:32:25,100
cloud.

1851
00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:25,860
Remember,

1852
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:26,280
these are

1853
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:26,720
small,

1854
00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:27,220
medium,

1855
00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:27,980
and large

1856
00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:28,320
apps.

1857
00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:29,300
And then I

1858
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:29,820
have one

1859
00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:30,300
massive

1860
00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:30,900
monolithic

1861
00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:31,380
app,

1862
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:31,860
right?

1863
00:32:32,140 --> 00:32:32,900
Or a

1864
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:33,600
distributed

1865
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,160
monolithic

1866
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:34,460
app.

1867
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:34,760
So this

1868
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:35,160
is one

1869
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:35,940
giant app.

1870
00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:36,360
So let's

1871
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,280
draw this

1872
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:37,700
as a

1873
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:39,280
giant app.

1874
00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:40,800
And then

1875
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:41,420
I have

1876
00:32:41,420 --> 00:32:41,940
new product

1877
00:32:41,940 --> 00:32:42,420
development,

1878
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:43,000
right?

1879
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:44,640
And we

1880
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:45,080
can cover

1881
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:45,940
that separately,

1882
00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:46,360
but there

1883
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,820
is a set

1884
00:32:47,820 --> 00:32:48,320
of practices

1885
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:48,760
that are

1886
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:49,360
critical here

1887
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:49,760
as well.

1888
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,000
So when

1889
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,160
you have a

1890
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:52,560
number of

1891
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:52,900
apps,

1892
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:53,600
we have

1893
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:54,560
tools that

1894
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:55,300
allow us

1895
00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:56,580
to determine

1896
00:32:56,580 --> 00:32:57,800
cloud-native

1897
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:58,460
effort,

1898
00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:58,900
right?

1899
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:00,440
Feasibility,

1900
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:01,480
as I said.

1901
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:02,560
And then

1902
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:03,560
there's a

1903
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:03,940
whole bunch

1904
00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:04,320
of tools

1905
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:04,760
here called

1906
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:05,220
Snap,

1907
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:06,720
ARG.

1908
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,020
It basically

1909
00:33:08,020 --> 00:33:08,520
tells you

1910
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,020
the series

1911
00:33:09,020 --> 00:33:10,240
of remediations

1912
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:10,600
that you

1913
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:10,960
need to

1914
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:11,260
do to

1915
00:33:11,260 --> 00:33:11,420
the

1916
00:33:11,420 --> 00:33:11,860
application.

1917
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:13,140
And then

1918
00:33:13,140 --> 00:33:14,200
you actually

1919
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:14,620
go to

1920
00:33:14,620 --> 00:33:16,060
the containerization

1921
00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:17,160
phase of

1922
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:17,820
the application.

1923
00:33:19,220 --> 00:33:19,880
Over

1924
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:20,540
here,

1925
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:21,840
you can

1926
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,520
use

1927
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:23,140
build

1928
00:33:23,140 --> 00:33:23,840
packs

1929
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,180
to

1930
00:33:25,180 --> 00:33:25,840
containerize

1931
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,000
your

1932
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:26,520
application.

1933
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:27,300
You can

1934
00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:27,620
use

1935
00:33:27,620 --> 00:33:28,040
Docker

1936
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:28,720
files

1937
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:29,480
to

1938
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,040
migrate

1939
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:30,280
to

1940
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:30,960
make

1941
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:31,100
a

1942
00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:31,520
container.

1943
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:32,760
So

1944
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,120
these

1945
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:33,520
are

1946
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:33,660
the

1947
00:33:33,660 --> 00:33:33,820
two

1948
00:33:33,820 --> 00:33:34,260
techniques.

1949
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:34,900
You also

1950
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:35,320
have

1951
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:36,140
plugins.

1952
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:37,480
Springboot

1953
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:38,100
has...

1954
00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:38,380
So you

1955
00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:38,700
have a

1956
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:38,900
Java

1957
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:39,460
application

1958
00:33:39,460 --> 00:33:40,580
and then

1959
00:33:40,580 --> 00:33:42,620
there's

1960
00:33:42,620 --> 00:33:43,140
techniques

1961
00:33:43,140 --> 00:33:44,000
for

1962
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:44,620
bootification.

1963
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:44,920
So I

1964
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:45,280
need to

1965
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,000
delve...

1966
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:46,300
This is

1967
00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:46,740
a longer

1968
00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:47,080
form

1969
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:47,460
topic,

1970
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:48,660
but your

1971
00:33:48,660 --> 00:33:49,220
application

1972
00:33:49,220 --> 00:33:49,860
might not

1973
00:33:49,860 --> 00:33:50,280
be ready

1974
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:50,620
to get

1975
00:33:50,620 --> 00:33:51,360
containerized.

1976
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,280
You have

1977
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:52,580
to do

1978
00:33:52,580 --> 00:33:52,860
certain

1979
00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:53,380
things to

1980
00:33:53,380 --> 00:33:54,260
it to

1981
00:33:54,260 --> 00:33:55,080
get it

1982
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:55,620
ready so

1983
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:55,980
that you

1984
00:33:55,980 --> 00:33:56,620
can make

1985
00:33:56,620 --> 00:33:57,140
container

1986
00:33:57,140 --> 00:33:57,620
out of

1987
00:33:57,620 --> 00:33:57,820
it.

1988
00:33:58,260 --> 00:33:58,480
And

1989
00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:58,880
those

1990
00:33:58,880 --> 00:33:59,240
may...

1991
00:33:59,240 --> 00:33:59,520
If it's

1992
00:33:59,520 --> 00:33:59,620
a

1993
00:33:59,620 --> 00:34:00,060
Springboot

1994
00:34:00,060 --> 00:34:00,320
app,

1995
00:34:00,860 --> 00:34:01,240
then you

1996
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:01,560
can just

1997
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:01,880
use the

1998
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:02,120
Java

1999
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:02,700
buildback

2000
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:03,260
or you

2001
00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:03,640
could use

2002
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:03,760
the

2003
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:04,140
Springboot

2004
00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:04,440
plugin.

2005
00:34:04,620 --> 00:34:05,000
But what

2006
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:05,380
if it's

2007
00:34:05,380 --> 00:34:06,240
a legacy

2008
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:06,760
application

2009
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:07,120
that runs

2010
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:07,480
on Web

2011
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:07,700
Sphere?

2012
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:08,520
then in

2013
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:08,520
then in

2014
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:08,680
that

2015
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:08,980
case

2016
00:34:08,980 --> 00:34:09,440
your

2017
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:09,820
options

2018
00:34:09,820 --> 00:34:10,340
are either

2019
00:34:10,340 --> 00:34:10,900
to use

2020
00:34:10,900 --> 00:34:11,300
the

2021
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:12,540
Helm

2022
00:34:12,540 --> 00:34:12,860
charts

2023
00:34:12,860 --> 00:34:13,020
to

2024
00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:13,220
this

2025
00:34:13,220 --> 00:34:13,560
as well.

2026
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:14,500
Your options

2027
00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:14,940
are either

2028
00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:15,640
to remove

2029
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:16,600
the Java

2030
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:17,320
EE parts

2031
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:17,840
and take

2032
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:18,260
them to

2033
00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:18,680
Spring

2034
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,620
or you

2035
00:34:20,620 --> 00:34:21,060
could use

2036
00:34:21,060 --> 00:34:21,520
one of the

2037
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:21,900
WebSphere

2038
00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:22,620
or WebLogic

2039
00:34:22,620 --> 00:34:23,580
Helm charts

2040
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:25,080
to package

2041
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:25,820
your application

2042
00:34:25,820 --> 00:34:27,140
in Kubernetes

2043
00:34:27,140 --> 00:34:28,240
but managed

2044
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:28,620
by the

2045
00:34:28,620 --> 00:34:29,000
WebSphere

2046
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:29,720
or WebLogic

2047
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:30,280
operator.

2048
00:34:30,820 --> 00:34:31,560
So there

2049
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,040
are a number

2050
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:32,620
of paths

2051
00:34:32,620 --> 00:34:33,440
to go

2052
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,680
to containers

2053
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:35,640
and some

2054
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,080
of them

2055
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,800
are

2056
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,020
I would say

2057
00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:39,380
there are

2058
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:39,940
different choices

2059
00:34:39,940 --> 00:34:40,300
you make.

2060
00:34:40,580 --> 00:34:41,240
If you want

2061
00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:42,700
the least

2062
00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:43,240
amount of

2063
00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:43,600
effort

2064
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,220
then you

2065
00:34:45,220 --> 00:34:45,820
are inclined

2066
00:34:45,820 --> 00:34:46,280
to just

2067
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:46,920
use what

2068
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:47,420
traditional

2069
00:34:47,420 --> 00:34:47,980
app server

2070
00:34:47,980 --> 00:34:48,340
vendors

2071
00:34:48,340 --> 00:34:48,960
have provided

2072
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:49,780
for packaging

2073
00:34:49,780 --> 00:34:50,700
like Helm

2074
00:34:50,700 --> 00:34:51,060
charts

2075
00:34:51,060 --> 00:34:51,880
or operators

2076
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:52,560
but in that

2077
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:52,940
case you're

2078
00:34:52,940 --> 00:34:53,240
still on

2079
00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:53,600
WebSphere

2080
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:54,180
or WebLogic.

2081
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:55,360
You could

2082
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:55,920
choose to

2083
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:56,580
remove those

2084
00:34:56,580 --> 00:34:57,180
parts by going

2085
00:34:57,180 --> 00:34:57,660
to Equivalent

2086
00:34:57,660 --> 00:34:57,940
Spring

2087
00:34:57,940 --> 00:34:58,460
frameworks.

2088
00:34:59,020 --> 00:34:59,600
I call that

2089
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,160
process as

2090
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:00,720
bootification

2091
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,040
and then

2092
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:02,380
you could

2093
00:35:02,380 --> 00:35:02,820
use Spring

2094
00:35:02,820 --> 00:35:03,040
Boot

2095
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:03,780
plugins

2096
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:04,160
or

2097
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,600
container.

2098
00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:06,800
So even

2099
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:07,220
for the

2100
00:35:07,220 --> 00:35:07,500
small

2101
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:07,920
medium

2102
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:08,300
large

2103
00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:08,680
apps

2104
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:09,220
there are

2105
00:35:09,220 --> 00:35:09,720
multiple

2106
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:10,540
parts

2107
00:35:10,540 --> 00:35:10,820
of

2108
00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:11,720
containerization

2109
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:12,600
to go

2110
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,060
to run

2111
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:15,600
on Kubernetes

2112
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,640
or Cloud

2113
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,380
Fountains.

2114
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,640
So those

2115
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:21,260
various app

2116
00:35:21,260 --> 00:35:21,640
servers

2117
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:22,480
they've been

2118
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:23,580
Kubernetes

2119
00:35:23,580 --> 00:35:26,340
I guess

2120
00:35:26,340 --> 00:35:27,060
if you can

2121
00:35:27,060 --> 00:35:27,600
use a

2122
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:27,800
Helm

2123
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,180
chart to

2124
00:35:28,180 --> 00:35:28,780
deploy them

2125
00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:29,940
then they

2126
00:35:29,940 --> 00:35:30,380
can

2127
00:35:30,380 --> 00:35:31,320
run on

2128
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,020
a cluster

2129
00:35:32,020 --> 00:35:32,420
as well

2130
00:35:32,420 --> 00:35:32,660
right?

2131
00:35:33,660 --> 00:35:34,140
Exactly

2132
00:35:34,140 --> 00:35:34,540
right.

2133
00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:35,680
So we

2134
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:36,540
dig into

2135
00:35:36,540 --> 00:35:37,000
this

2136
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,140
I have

2137
00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:38,580
my

2138
00:35:38,580 --> 00:35:39,500
Java

2139
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:39,900
app

2140
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:40,220
running

2141
00:35:40,220 --> 00:35:40,540
on

2142
00:35:40,540 --> 00:35:41,060
Tomcat

2143
00:35:41,060 --> 00:35:41,600
so there's

2144
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:42,040
my Java

2145
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:42,300
apps

2146
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:42,580
running

2147
00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:42,860
on

2148
00:35:42,860 --> 00:35:43,640
WebSphere

2149
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,580
or WebLogic

2150
00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:45,560
and then I

2151
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:46,080
have my

2152
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,160
ESBs

2153
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,200
and my

2154
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,300
VPNs

2155
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:49,680
and stuff

2156
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:50,060
like that

2157
00:35:50,060 --> 00:35:50,260
right?

2158
00:35:52,020 --> 00:35:52,620
So

2159
00:35:52,620 --> 00:35:54,620
there are

2160
00:35:54,620 --> 00:35:54,900
Helm

2161
00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:55,180
charts

2162
00:35:55,180 --> 00:35:55,940
that will

2163
00:35:55,940 --> 00:35:56,500
allow you

2164
00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:57,640
to deploy

2165
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:57,920
these

2166
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,620
applications

2167
00:35:58,620 --> 00:36:01,260
and

2168
00:36:01,260 --> 00:36:01,820
increasingly

2169
00:36:01,820 --> 00:36:02,440
all the

2170
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:03,120
ISV vendors

2171
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,060
also provide

2172
00:36:04,060 --> 00:36:05,400
application

2173
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:05,840
like

2174
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:06,540
Docker

2175
00:36:06,540 --> 00:36:07,100
images

2176
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:08,180
to package

2177
00:36:08,180 --> 00:36:09,040
their

2178
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:09,680
software

2179
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,180
and then

2180
00:36:11,180 --> 00:36:11,580
of course

2181
00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:11,920
we have

2182
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:12,460
build packs

2183
00:36:12,460 --> 00:36:12,920
to package

2184
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:13,280
these

2185
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:13,920
as

2186
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,260
containers

2187
00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:16,540
so

2188
00:36:16,540 --> 00:36:16,900
I'm

2189
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:17,000
going

2190
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,440
to use

2191
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:18,120
build packs

2192
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:18,400
here

2193
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:18,920
as

2194
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:19,260
the

2195
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:19,780
analogy

2196
00:36:19,780 --> 00:36:21,500
ultimately

2197
00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:22,240
all this

2198
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:23,260
ends up

2199
00:36:23,260 --> 00:36:23,720
as

2200
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:24,640
you now

2201
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:25,080
have

2202
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:25,520
a

2203
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:25,920
Docker

2204
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:26,360
image

2205
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:26,700
that you

2206
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:26,900
can

2207
00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:27,240
then

2208
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:27,800
write

2209
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:27,960
a

2210
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:28,320
manifest

2211
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:28,780
for

2212
00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:29,040
and

2213
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:29,360
deploy

2214
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:29,580
on

2215
00:36:29,580 --> 00:36:29,700
the

2216
00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:30,660
so

2217
00:36:30,660 --> 00:36:31,520
those

2218
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:31,640
are

2219
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:31,840
kind

2220
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:31,980
of

2221
00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:32,140
your

2222
00:36:32,140 --> 00:36:32,400
three

2223
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:32,800
parts

2224
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:33,400
now

2225
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:33,780
to

2226
00:36:33,780 --> 00:36:33,960
your

2227
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,160
point

2228
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:34,540
earlier

2229
00:36:34,540 --> 00:36:34,860
about

2230
00:36:34,860 --> 00:36:35,220
like

2231
00:36:35,220 --> 00:36:37,140
it's

2232
00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:37,460
often

2233
00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:37,780
hard

2234
00:36:37,780 --> 00:36:37,940
to

2235
00:36:37,940 --> 00:36:38,120
like

2236
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:38,420
lift

2237
00:36:38,420 --> 00:36:38,640
and

2238
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:38,860
shift

2239
00:36:38,860 --> 00:36:39,280
things

2240
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:39,880
like

2241
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,180
I

2242
00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:41,300
mean

2243
00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:41,380
you

2244
00:36:41,380 --> 00:36:41,500
were

2245
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:41,660
kind

2246
00:36:41,660 --> 00:36:41,820
of

2247
00:36:41,820 --> 00:36:42,220
alluding

2248
00:36:42,220 --> 00:36:42,340
to

2249
00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:42,480
this

2250
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:42,740
earlier

2251
00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:42,920
but

2252
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:43,020
you

2253
00:36:43,020 --> 00:36:43,120
know

2254
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:43,200
in

2255
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:43,320
the

2256
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:43,540
app

2257
00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:43,800
server

2258
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:44,220
world

2259
00:36:44,220 --> 00:36:44,780
there's

2260
00:36:44,780 --> 00:36:44,880
a

2261
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:45,100
whole

2262
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:45,380
lot

2263
00:36:45,380 --> 00:36:45,500
of

2264
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:45,840
crazy

2265
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:46,200
stuff

2266
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:46,480
going

2267
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:46,780
on

2268
00:36:46,780 --> 00:36:47,420
as

2269
00:36:47,420 --> 00:36:47,840
far

2270
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:48,060
as

2271
00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:49,160
networking

2272
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:49,740
and

2273
00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:50,140
security

2274
00:36:50,140 --> 00:36:50,340
and

2275
00:36:50,340 --> 00:36:50,460
all

2276
00:36:50,460 --> 00:36:50,720
that

2277
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:50,880
and

2278
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,140
how

2279
00:36:51,140 --> 00:36:51,980
do

2280
00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:52,080
they

2281
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:52,340
handle

2282
00:36:52,340 --> 00:36:52,740
that

2283
00:36:52,740 --> 00:36:53,560
if

2284
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:53,780
they're

2285
00:36:53,780 --> 00:36:54,060
running

2286
00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:54,260
on

2287
00:36:54,260 --> 00:36:54,480
top

2288
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:54,620
of

2289
00:36:54,620 --> 00:36:55,080
Kubernetes

2290
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:55,460
like

2291
00:36:55,460 --> 00:36:55,940
is

2292
00:36:55,940 --> 00:36:56,240
there

2293
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:57,440
I

2294
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:57,540
don't

2295
00:36:57,540 --> 00:36:57,720
know

2296
00:36:57,720 --> 00:36:57,900
is

2297
00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:58,020
that

2298
00:36:58,020 --> 00:36:58,160
a

2299
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:58,280
lot

2300
00:36:58,280 --> 00:36:58,640
easier

2301
00:36:58,640 --> 00:36:58,960
to

2302
00:36:58,960 --> 00:36:59,520
move

2303
00:36:59,520 --> 00:36:59,800
over

2304
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:00,020
onto

2305
00:37:00,020 --> 00:37:00,200
that

2306
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:00,440
kind

2307
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:00,540
of

2308
00:37:00,540 --> 00:37:00,940
environment

2309
00:37:00,940 --> 00:37:01,140
than

2310
00:37:01,140 --> 00:37:01,280
I'm

2311
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:01,520
thinking

2312
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:01,740
it

2313
00:37:01,740 --> 00:37:02,000
is

2314
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,440
yeah

2315
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:03,920
so

2316
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:04,260
like

2317
00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:04,580
you

2318
00:37:04,580 --> 00:37:05,360
got

2319
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:05,520
it

2320
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:05,700
right

2321
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:05,900
like

2322
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:06,440
how

2323
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:06,620
is

2324
00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:07,020
security

2325
00:37:07,020 --> 00:37:07,720
managed

2326
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:09,980
I

2327
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:10,560
generally

2328
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,000
we

2329
00:37:13,540 --> 00:37:15,060
our

2330
00:37:15,060 --> 00:37:15,600
recommendation

2331
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:16,280
for the

2332
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:16,760
most part

2333
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,100
is to

2334
00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:17,680
go down

2335
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:18,300
this

2336
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:18,600
route

2337
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:19,540
is

2338
00:37:19,540 --> 00:37:20,240
you

2339
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:21,380
try to

2340
00:37:21,380 --> 00:37:21,780
make it

2341
00:37:21,780 --> 00:37:22,420
cloud native

2342
00:37:22,420 --> 00:37:23,160
strategically

2343
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:23,860
don't

2344
00:37:23,860 --> 00:37:24,400
have to

2345
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:24,580
change

2346
00:37:24,580 --> 00:37:24,980
everything

2347
00:37:24,980 --> 00:37:25,240
out

2348
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:25,660
but

2349
00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:26,360
at least

2350
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:26,680
for the

2351
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:26,940
pieces

2352
00:37:26,940 --> 00:37:27,300
that

2353
00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:27,580
make

2354
00:37:27,580 --> 00:37:28,060
sense

2355
00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:29,420
replace

2356
00:37:29,420 --> 00:37:29,760
them

2357
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:30,120
with

2358
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:30,540
equivalent

2359
00:37:30,540 --> 00:37:30,960
spring

2360
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:31,360
framework

2361
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:32,220
constructs

2362
00:37:32,220 --> 00:37:32,640
replace

2363
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:32,900
them

2364
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:33,080
with

2365
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:33,640
federated

2366
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:34,260
security

2367
00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:34,800
and

2368
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:35,220
standard

2369
00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:35,480
based

2370
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:35,880
security

2371
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:36,160
like

2372
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:36,740
OAuth

2373
00:37:36,740 --> 00:37:36,980
and

2374
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:37,680
OIDC

2375
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:38,300
instead of

2376
00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:38,740
leveraging

2377
00:37:38,740 --> 00:37:39,000
the

2378
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:39,420
proprietary

2379
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:40,240
security

2380
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:40,720
mechanisms

2381
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:40,980
offered

2382
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:41,140
by

2383
00:37:41,140 --> 00:37:41,220
the

2384
00:37:41,220 --> 00:37:41,360
app

2385
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:41,480
server

2386
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:41,720
because

2387
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:42,100
those

2388
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:42,440
simply

2389
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:42,640
don't

2390
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:42,900
work

2391
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:43,000
in

2392
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:43,120
the

2393
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:43,360
cloud

2394
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:43,960
right

2395
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:44,200
you

2396
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:44,500
need

2397
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:44,620
to

2398
00:37:44,620 --> 00:37:44,820
have

2399
00:37:44,820 --> 00:37:45,300
equivalent

2400
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:46,020
replacements

2401
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:46,920
now in

2402
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:47,500
some cases

2403
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:48,920
the vendors

2404
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:49,760
have provided

2405
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:50,260
hooks

2406
00:37:50,260 --> 00:37:51,400
to make

2407
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,020
those work

2408
00:37:52,020 --> 00:37:52,500
or work

2409
00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:52,760
around

2410
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:53,100
to make

2411
00:37:53,100 --> 00:37:53,260
them

2412
00:37:53,260 --> 00:37:53,480
work

2413
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:53,620
in

2414
00:37:53,620 --> 00:37:53,980
Kubernetes

2415
00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:54,300
but

2416
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:54,900
long term

2417
00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:55,600
you're

2418
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:55,900
better

2419
00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:56,440
satisfied

2420
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:56,900
by

2421
00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:57,760
making

2422
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:57,980
your

2423
00:37:57,980 --> 00:37:58,540
application

2424
00:37:58,540 --> 00:37:58,840
a

2425
00:37:58,840 --> 00:37:59,160
self

2426
00:37:59,160 --> 00:37:59,560
contained

2427
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:00,000
unit

2428
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:00,860
and

2429
00:38:00,860 --> 00:38:01,720
potentially

2430
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:02,460
decoupling

2431
00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:02,780
it

2432
00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:03,440
from the

2433
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:03,840
underlying

2434
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:04,480
infrastructure

2435
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:04,920
which is

2436
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:05,060
the

2437
00:38:05,060 --> 00:38:05,280
app

2438
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:05,520
server

2439
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:05,820
right

2440
00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:06,040
so

2441
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:06,200
you

2442
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:06,480
want

2443
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:06,620
to

2444
00:38:06,620 --> 00:38:06,840
make

2445
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:07,120
yourself

2446
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:07,340
a

2447
00:38:07,340 --> 00:38:07,520
self

2448
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:07,900
contained

2449
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:11,460
starting

2450
00:38:11,460 --> 00:38:11,860
with

2451
00:38:11,860 --> 00:38:12,120
the

2452
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:12,660
services

2453
00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:12,980
that

2454
00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:13,120
the

2455
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:13,380
app

2456
00:38:13,380 --> 00:38:13,880
uses

2457
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:14,340
versus

2458
00:38:14,340 --> 00:38:14,880
starting

2459
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:15,120
with

2460
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:15,280
the

2461
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:15,600
app

2462
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:16,560
right

2463
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:16,800
like

2464
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:17,360
you're

2465
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:17,640
saying

2466
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:17,820
that

2467
00:38:17,820 --> 00:38:18,060
you know

2468
00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:18,420
you have

2469
00:38:18,420 --> 00:38:18,680
to

2470
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,180
you know

2471
00:38:21,180 --> 00:38:22,040
let's

2472
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:22,320
say you're

2473
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:22,820
depending on

2474
00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:23,120
some

2475
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:23,680
security

2476
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:24,240
service

2477
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:24,660
inside

2478
00:38:24,660 --> 00:38:24,880
the

2479
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:25,100
app

2480
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:25,480
server

2481
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:25,800
that

2482
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:26,020
just

2483
00:38:26,020 --> 00:38:26,380
like

2484
00:38:26,380 --> 00:38:26,820
is

2485
00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:27,220
difficult

2486
00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:27,660
to work

2487
00:38:27,660 --> 00:38:27,800
in

2488
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:28,220
Kubernetes

2489
00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:28,840
right

2490
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:29,120
and

2491
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:29,300
so

2492
00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:29,680
maybe

2493
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:30,560
instead

2494
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:30,940
like

2495
00:38:30,940 --> 00:38:31,200
maybe

2496
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:31,600
one way

2497
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:31,940
would be

2498
00:38:31,940 --> 00:38:32,360
let's

2499
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:32,720
replace

2500
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:32,920
the

2501
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:33,320
security

2502
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:33,940
service

2503
00:38:33,940 --> 00:38:34,300
and

2504
00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:34,420
then

2505
00:38:34,420 --> 00:38:34,640
just

2506
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:34,900
make

2507
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:35,060
the

2508
00:38:35,060 --> 00:38:35,380
change

2509
00:38:35,380 --> 00:38:35,520
in

2510
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:35,680
the

2511
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:35,940
app

2512
00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:36,120
to

2513
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:36,440
use

2514
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:36,640
this

2515
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:36,840
new

2516
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:37,240
security

2517
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:37,780
service

2518
00:38:37,780 --> 00:38:38,080
instead

2519
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:38,220
of

2520
00:38:38,220 --> 00:38:38,320
the

2521
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:38,460
other

2522
00:38:38,460 --> 00:38:38,640
way

2523
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:39,060
around

2524
00:38:39,060 --> 00:38:39,620
or

2525
00:38:39,620 --> 00:38:40,400
I don't

2526
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:40,520
know

2527
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:40,740
do you

2528
00:38:40,740 --> 00:38:40,960
always

2529
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:41,180
start

2530
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:41,340
with

2531
00:38:41,340 --> 00:38:41,480
the

2532
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:41,740
app

2533
00:38:41,740 --> 00:38:41,840
or

2534
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:41,940
do

2535
00:38:41,940 --> 00:38:42,040
you

2536
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:42,400
sometimes

2537
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:42,720
start

2538
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:42,920
with

2539
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:43,060
the

2540
00:38:43,060 --> 00:38:43,460
underlying

2541
00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:43,820
things

2542
00:38:43,820 --> 00:38:44,020
or

2543
00:38:44,020 --> 00:38:44,440
how do

2544
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:44,500
you

2545
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:44,680
figure

2546
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:44,920
that

2547
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:45,160
out

2548
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,100
most

2549
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:46,340
of the

2550
00:38:46,340 --> 00:38:46,580
times

2551
00:38:46,580 --> 00:38:46,860
you just

2552
00:38:46,860 --> 00:38:47,120
start

2553
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:47,280
with

2554
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:47,420
the

2555
00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:47,680
app

2556
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:48,000
first

2557
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:48,180
you

2558
00:38:48,180 --> 00:38:48,360
make

2559
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:48,640
a

2560
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:49,240
decision

2561
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:49,720
right

2562
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:50,980
and

2563
00:38:50,980 --> 00:38:51,120
then

2564
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:51,300
when

2565
00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:51,400
you

2566
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:51,800
push

2567
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:51,940
it

2568
00:38:51,940 --> 00:38:52,200
first

2569
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:52,380
in

2570
00:38:52,380 --> 00:38:52,540
your

2571
00:38:52,540 --> 00:38:53,560
development

2572
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:53,860
when

2573
00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:53,960
you

2574
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:54,140
push

2575
00:38:54,140 --> 00:38:54,280
the

2576
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:54,540
app

2577
00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:54,880
that

2578
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:55,100
just

2579
00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:55,360
stop

2580
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:55,560
just

2581
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:55,880
breaks

2582
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:56,720
security

2583
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:56,960
no

2584
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:57,220
longer

2585
00:38:57,220 --> 00:38:57,600
works

2586
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:58,080
right

2587
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,360
right

2588
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,160
it's

2589
00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:08,140
you

2590
00:39:08,140 --> 00:39:08,420
turn

2591
00:39:08,420 --> 00:39:08,600
off

2592
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:08,960
security

2593
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:09,220
because

2594
00:39:09,220 --> 00:39:09,360
you

2595
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:09,560
know

2596
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:09,760
it's

2597
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:09,960
not

2598
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:10,140
going

2599
00:39:10,140 --> 00:39:10,240
to

2600
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:10,440
work

2601
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:11,020
you

2602
00:39:11,020 --> 00:39:11,320
get

2603
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:11,500
it

2604
00:39:11,500 --> 00:39:12,120
functionally

2605
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:12,480
running

2606
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:12,860
right

2607
00:39:12,860 --> 00:39:13,040
like

2608
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:13,340
an

2609
00:39:13,340 --> 00:39:15,260
unauthenticated

2610
00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:15,580
user

2611
00:39:15,580 --> 00:39:16,180
can access

2612
00:39:16,180 --> 00:39:16,420
that

2613
00:39:16,420 --> 00:39:16,840
resource

2614
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:17,640
then

2615
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,160
you

2616
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:18,420
kind

2617
00:39:18,420 --> 00:39:18,960
of

2618
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:19,180
you

2619
00:39:19,180 --> 00:39:19,600
create

2620
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:19,780
a

2621
00:39:19,780 --> 00:39:20,060
fuss

2622
00:39:20,060 --> 00:39:20,340
up

2623
00:39:20,340 --> 00:39:21,220
ideally

2624
00:39:21,220 --> 00:39:21,500
if you

2625
00:39:21,500 --> 00:39:21,600
have

2626
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,100
implemented

2627
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:22,340
the

2628
00:39:22,340 --> 00:39:22,740
application

2629
00:39:22,740 --> 00:39:23,180
correctly

2630
00:39:23,180 --> 00:39:23,400
you

2631
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:23,620
have

2632
00:39:23,620 --> 00:39:24,200
layered

2633
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:24,500
in

2634
00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:24,980
security

2635
00:39:24,980 --> 00:39:25,320
in

2636
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:25,480
a

2637
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,700
standard

2638
00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:27,140
specific

2639
00:39:27,140 --> 00:39:27,500
way

2640
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:27,900
so

2641
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:28,060
that

2642
00:39:28,060 --> 00:39:28,260
you

2643
00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:28,440
can

2644
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:28,640
just

2645
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:28,940
plug

2646
00:39:28,940 --> 00:39:29,160
in

2647
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:29,400
the

2648
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:29,960
SSO

2649
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:30,580
provider

2650
00:39:30,580 --> 00:39:31,000
of

2651
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:31,220
the

2652
00:39:31,220 --> 00:39:31,660
cloud

2653
00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:32,220
like

2654
00:39:32,220 --> 00:39:32,340
you

2655
00:39:32,340 --> 00:39:32,560
can

2656
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:32,840
plug

2657
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:33,060
in

2658
00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:34,080
SSO

2659
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:34,700
authentication

2660
00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:35,300
authorization

2661
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:35,920
provider

2662
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:36,260
like

2663
00:39:36,260 --> 00:39:36,800
Okta

2664
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:37,320
or

2665
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:38,940
some

2666
00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:39,060
of

2667
00:39:39,060 --> 00:39:39,180
these

2668
00:39:39,180 --> 00:39:39,400
other

2669
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:39,740
providers

2670
00:39:39,740 --> 00:39:40,220
usually

2671
00:39:40,220 --> 00:39:40,540
that

2672
00:39:40,540 --> 00:39:40,760
is

2673
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:41,020
not

2674
00:39:41,020 --> 00:39:41,180
the

2675
00:39:41,180 --> 00:39:41,420
case

2676
00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:41,980
so

2677
00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:42,360
then

2678
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:42,620
you

2679
00:39:42,620 --> 00:39:43,220
refactor

2680
00:39:43,220 --> 00:39:43,460
the

2681
00:39:43,460 --> 00:39:43,800
app

2682
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:44,160
to

2683
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:44,600
use

2684
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:45,260
OAuth

2685
00:39:45,260 --> 00:39:45,660
or

2686
00:39:45,660 --> 00:39:46,380
OIDC

2687
00:39:46,380 --> 00:39:47,580
so that

2688
00:39:47,580 --> 00:39:47,720
you

2689
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:47,860
can

2690
00:39:47,860 --> 00:39:48,200
plug

2691
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:48,640
in

2692
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:49,260
Okta

2693
00:39:49,260 --> 00:39:49,540
or

2694
00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:49,640
you

2695
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:49,780
can

2696
00:39:49,780 --> 00:39:50,000
plug

2697
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:50,180
in

2698
00:39:50,180 --> 00:39:50,540
Ping

2699
00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:50,820
as

2700
00:39:50,820 --> 00:39:50,940
a

2701
00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:51,240
security

2702
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:51,660
provider

2703
00:39:51,660 --> 00:39:51,920
so

2704
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,420
there

2705
00:39:52,420 --> 00:39:52,560
is

2706
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:52,840
work

2707
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:53,040
that

2708
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:53,280
needs

2709
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:53,440
to

2710
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:53,620
be

2711
00:39:53,620 --> 00:39:53,980
done

2712
00:39:53,980 --> 00:39:54,500
to

2713
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:54,980
provide

2714
00:39:54,980 --> 00:39:55,800
security

2715
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:56,080
as

2716
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:56,240
a

2717
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:57,380
service

2718
00:39:57,380 --> 00:39:58,080
and

2719
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:58,400
usually

2720
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:58,760
then

2721
00:39:58,760 --> 00:39:59,100
the

2722
00:39:59,100 --> 00:39:59,400
idea

2723
00:39:59,400 --> 00:39:59,680
is

2724
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:00,020
all

2725
00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:00,120
the

2726
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:00,600
applications

2727
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:00,860
then

2728
00:40:00,860 --> 00:40:01,200
leverage

2729
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:01,420
that

2730
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:04,340
that

2731
00:40:04,340 --> 00:40:04,820
library

2732
00:40:04,820 --> 00:40:05,420
common

2733
00:40:05,420 --> 00:40:05,840
library

2734
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:06,020
in

2735
00:40:06,020 --> 00:40:06,140
the

2736
00:40:06,140 --> 00:40:06,340
cloud

2737
00:40:06,340 --> 00:40:06,620
that's

2738
00:40:06,620 --> 00:40:06,800
how

2739
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:07,320
generally

2740
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:07,520
the

2741
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:07,900
transition

2742
00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:08,340
occurs

2743
00:40:08,340 --> 00:40:09,040
so

2744
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:09,460
these

2745
00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:10,600
are

2746
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:10,940
our

2747
00:40:10,940 --> 00:40:11,220
three

2748
00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:11,540
roads

2749
00:40:11,540 --> 00:40:11,740
we

2750
00:40:11,740 --> 00:40:12,100
use

2751
00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:13,360
buildbacks

2752
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,520
we

2753
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:15,020
use

2754
00:40:15,020 --> 00:40:16,160
modification

2755
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,480
where

2756
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:17,740
we

2757
00:40:17,740 --> 00:40:18,460
basically

2758
00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:18,980
replace

2759
00:40:18,980 --> 00:40:19,420
Java

2760
00:40:19,420 --> 00:40:19,740
EE

2761
00:40:19,740 --> 00:40:20,020
or

2762
00:40:20,020 --> 00:40:20,560
J2EE

2763
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:21,220
construction

2764
00:40:21,220 --> 00:40:22,040
equivalent

2765
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:22,940
spring

2766
00:40:22,940 --> 00:40:23,280
ones

2767
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:23,980
right

2768
00:40:23,980 --> 00:40:24,780
and

2769
00:40:24,780 --> 00:40:25,340
for

2770
00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:26,620
these

2771
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:27,460
ESBs

2772
00:40:27,460 --> 00:40:27,600
and

2773
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:28,260
BPMs

2774
00:40:28,260 --> 00:40:28,620
either

2775
00:40:28,620 --> 00:40:29,000
you are

2776
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:29,480
rewriting

2777
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:29,820
them

2778
00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:30,360
or

2779
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:30,660
you're

2780
00:40:30,660 --> 00:40:31,240
using

2781
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:31,620
the

2782
00:40:31,620 --> 00:40:32,060
Docker

2783
00:40:32,060 --> 00:40:32,420
images

2784
00:40:32,420 --> 00:40:32,900
provided

2785
00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:33,260
by the

2786
00:40:33,260 --> 00:40:33,600
vendor

2787
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:34,140
to

2788
00:40:34,140 --> 00:40:34,760
repackage

2789
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:35,080
them

2790
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,540
or

2791
00:40:35,540 --> 00:40:36,100
something

2792
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:36,360
like

2793
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:36,720
Tipco

2794
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:37,400
either

2795
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:37,800
you have

2796
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:37,920
to

2797
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,420
refactor

2798
00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:38,700
them

2799
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:39,120
again

2800
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,140
to

2801
00:40:40,140 --> 00:40:41,340
more

2802
00:40:41,340 --> 00:40:42,640
independent

2803
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:43,420
self-deployed

2804
00:40:43,420 --> 00:40:43,720
units

2805
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:44,300
or you

2806
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:44,660
leverage

2807
00:40:44,660 --> 00:40:45,000
what is

2808
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:45,340
provided

2809
00:40:45,340 --> 00:40:45,760
by the

2810
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:46,160
vendor

2811
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:46,900
like

2812
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:47,300
Tipco

2813
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:48,700
buildbacks

2814
00:40:48,700 --> 00:40:48,860
or

2815
00:40:48,860 --> 00:40:49,240
Tipco

2816
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:49,640
operators

2817
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:49,980
to put

2818
00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:50,140
them

2819
00:40:50,140 --> 00:40:50,360
in the

2820
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:50,560
cloud

2821
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:50,860
so

2822
00:40:50,860 --> 00:40:51,900
those

2823
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:52,040
are

2824
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:52,220
kind

2825
00:40:52,220 --> 00:40:52,360
of

2826
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:52,540
your

2827
00:40:52,540 --> 00:40:52,900
options

2828
00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:53,180
either

2829
00:40:53,180 --> 00:40:53,380
you

2830
00:40:53,380 --> 00:40:53,620
take

2831
00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:53,800
the

2832
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:53,960
effort

2833
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:54,100
to

2834
00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:54,200
make

2835
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:54,300
it

2836
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:54,520
cloud

2837
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:54,820
native

2838
00:40:54,820 --> 00:40:55,320
or

2839
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:55,440
you

2840
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:55,620
kind

2841
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:55,740
of

2842
00:40:55,740 --> 00:40:55,880
go

2843
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:56,060
with

2844
00:40:56,060 --> 00:40:56,220
what

2845
00:40:56,220 --> 00:40:56,360
the

2846
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:56,620
vendor

2847
00:40:56,620 --> 00:40:56,980
has

2848
00:40:56,980 --> 00:40:57,180
and

2849
00:40:57,180 --> 00:40:57,300
then

2850
00:40:57,300 --> 00:40:57,480
get

2851
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:57,600
a

2852
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:57,960
reduced

2853
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:58,320
set

2854
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:58,460
of

2855
00:40:58,460 --> 00:40:58,780
ROI

2856
00:40:58,780 --> 00:40:59,320
with

2857
00:40:59,320 --> 00:40:59,560
that

2858
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:00,220
okay

2859
00:41:00,220 --> 00:41:00,400
so

2860
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:00,620
this

2861
00:41:00,620 --> 00:41:00,800
is

2862
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:01,100
the

2863
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:02,460
re-platform

2864
00:41:02,460 --> 00:41:02,760
flow

2865
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:03,460
the

2866
00:41:03,460 --> 00:41:03,960
monolithic

2867
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:04,220
flow

2868
00:41:04,220 --> 00:41:04,520
is kind

2869
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:04,880
of fun

2870
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,180
because

2871
00:41:05,180 --> 00:41:05,740
there isn't

2872
00:41:05,740 --> 00:41:06,120
really

2873
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,800
there's only

2874
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:08,500
one way

2875
00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:09,120
through that

2876
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:10,020
jungle

2877
00:41:10,020 --> 00:41:11,480
and I'll

2878
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:11,860
explain

2879
00:41:11,860 --> 00:41:12,300
to you

2880
00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:13,100
so

2881
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:14,140
strangler

2882
00:41:14,140 --> 00:41:15,600
plays a

2883
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:15,840
role

2884
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:16,300
in it

2885
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:17,240
facades

2886
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:17,680
play a

2887
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:17,840
role

2888
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:18,220
in it

2889
00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:18,760
so

2890
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:19,340
you

2891
00:41:19,340 --> 00:41:19,720
have

2892
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:20,000
this

2893
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,520
massive

2894
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:21,280
application

2895
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:21,740
where

2896
00:41:21,740 --> 00:41:22,140
different

2897
00:41:22,140 --> 00:41:23,740
modules

2898
00:41:23,740 --> 00:41:24,680
and business

2899
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:25,200
domains

2900
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:26,000
are all

2901
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:26,520
kind of

2902
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:27,360
like

2903
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,200
conjoint

2904
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:28,720
twins

2905
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:29,120
playing

2906
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:29,340
with

2907
00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:29,540
one

2908
00:41:29,540 --> 00:41:29,820
another

2909
00:41:29,820 --> 00:41:30,720
everyone

2910
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:31,160
calls

2911
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:31,560
another

2912
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:31,820
one

2913
00:41:31,820 --> 00:41:31,980
there

2914
00:41:31,980 --> 00:41:32,120
is

2915
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:32,320
no

2916
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:33,160
encapsulation

2917
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:33,560
of code

2918
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:33,740
there

2919
00:41:33,740 --> 00:41:33,880
is

2920
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:34,060
no

2921
00:41:34,060 --> 00:41:34,840
modularity

2922
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:35,520
right

2923
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:36,520
it's

2924
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:36,960
basically

2925
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:37,480
a big

2926
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:37,700
ball

2927
00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:38,160
of mud

2928
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:39,440
right

2929
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,800
so

2930
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:41,480
step

2931
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,000
one

2932
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,300
is

2933
00:41:42,300 --> 00:41:42,960
understanding

2934
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:43,400
what

2935
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:43,740
are

2936
00:41:43,740 --> 00:41:44,060
my

2937
00:41:44,060 --> 00:41:44,580
domains

2938
00:41:44,580 --> 00:41:45,280
right

2939
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:45,540
like

2940
00:41:45,540 --> 00:41:46,220
what

2941
00:41:46,220 --> 00:41:46,720
are

2942
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:47,940
like

2943
00:41:47,940 --> 00:41:48,200
the

2944
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:48,500
question

2945
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:48,900
you need

2946
00:41:48,900 --> 00:41:49,260
to start

2947
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:49,740
asking

2948
00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:50,120
is

2949
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:50,740
what

2950
00:41:50,740 --> 00:41:50,960
are

2951
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:51,220
my

2952
00:41:51,220 --> 00:41:51,780
domains

2953
00:41:51,780 --> 00:41:52,240
right

2954
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:52,700
one

2955
00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:53,520
what

2956
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:53,920
is

2957
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:54,100
the

2958
00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:54,260
like

2959
00:41:54,260 --> 00:41:54,420
the

2960
00:41:54,420 --> 00:41:54,700
top

2961
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:55,020
pain

2962
00:41:55,020 --> 00:41:55,340
point

2963
00:41:55,340 --> 00:41:55,940
like

2964
00:41:55,940 --> 00:41:56,300
what

2965
00:41:56,300 --> 00:41:56,700
what

2966
00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:56,820
is

2967
00:41:56,820 --> 00:41:56,960
the

2968
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:57,240
top

2969
00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:57,880
constraint

2970
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:58,640
that

2971
00:41:58,640 --> 00:41:58,840
I

2972
00:41:58,840 --> 00:41:58,980
am

2973
00:41:58,980 --> 00:41:59,340
solving

2974
00:41:59,340 --> 00:41:59,820
for

2975
00:41:59,820 --> 00:42:00,580
right

2976
00:42:00,580 --> 00:42:02,000
and

2977
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:02,160
then

2978
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:02,360
like

2979
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:02,580
I

2980
00:42:02,580 --> 00:42:02,920
said

2981
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:03,180
what

2982
00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:03,320
are

2983
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:03,520
my

2984
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:03,920
key

2985
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:04,560
like

2986
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:04,980
business

2987
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:05,540
drivers

2988
00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:05,980
here

2989
00:42:05,980 --> 00:42:07,500
and

2990
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:07,700
this

2991
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:07,820
is

2992
00:42:07,820 --> 00:42:08,220
important

2993
00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:08,600
because

2994
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,340
you have

2995
00:42:09,340 --> 00:42:09,560
to do

2996
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:09,720
this

2997
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:10,340
iteratively

2998
00:42:10,340 --> 00:42:11,040
you have

2999
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:11,500
to solve

3000
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:11,780
it

3001
00:42:11,780 --> 00:42:12,860
in a

3002
00:42:12,860 --> 00:42:13,700
step-by-step

3003
00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:14,180
fashion

3004
00:42:14,180 --> 00:42:14,760
for each

3005
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:15,480
thin slice

3006
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:16,140
like

3007
00:42:16,140 --> 00:42:16,800
the way

3008
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,040
to think

3009
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:18,500
about it

3010
00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:18,640
is

3011
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:18,900
this

3012
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:19,300
this is

3013
00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:19,420
the

3014
00:42:19,420 --> 00:42:19,900
application

3015
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:20,740
it is

3016
00:42:20,740 --> 00:42:21,460
satisfying

3017
00:42:21,460 --> 00:42:22,860
in number

3018
00:42:22,860 --> 00:42:23,620
of

3019
00:42:23,620 --> 00:42:24,980
use cases

3020
00:42:24,980 --> 00:42:25,680
like

3021
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:26,340
that go

3022
00:42:26,340 --> 00:42:26,760
through it

3023
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:27,580
each of

3024
00:42:27,580 --> 00:42:28,500
this provides

3025
00:42:28,500 --> 00:42:29,440
a business

3026
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:29,940
value

3027
00:42:29,940 --> 00:42:30,400
right

3028
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:31,160
so

3029
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,000
you have

3030
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:33,420
to when

3031
00:42:33,420 --> 00:42:34,140
you modernize

3032
00:42:34,140 --> 00:42:34,740
make sure

3033
00:42:34,740 --> 00:42:35,320
that

3034
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,240
I'll get

3035
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:36,540
into the

3036
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:36,820
actual

3037
00:42:36,820 --> 00:42:37,320
techniques

3038
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:37,860
of doing

3039
00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:38,040
it

3040
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:38,260
maybe

3041
00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:38,560
next

3042
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:38,880
time

3043
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:39,540
but

3044
00:42:39,540 --> 00:42:39,880
you

3045
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:40,160
have

3046
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:40,300
to

3047
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:40,500
do

3048
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:40,740
this

3049
00:42:40,740 --> 00:42:41,320
iteratively

3050
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:41,660
for

3051
00:42:41,660 --> 00:42:42,040
one

3052
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:42,560
two

3053
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:42,880
and

3054
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:43,180
three

3055
00:42:43,180 --> 00:42:44,100
finish

3056
00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:44,420
one

3057
00:42:44,420 --> 00:42:44,820
complete

3058
00:42:44,820 --> 00:42:45,180
then

3059
00:42:45,180 --> 00:42:45,400
two

3060
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:45,780
complete

3061
00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:46,160
and then

3062
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:46,360
three

3063
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:46,700
complete

3064
00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:47,520
you can't

3065
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:47,760
just

3066
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:48,720
modernize

3067
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:49,140
a massive

3068
00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:49,520
monolith

3069
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:50,560
across all

3070
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:50,880
the use

3071
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,200
cases

3072
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:51,680
for all

3073
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:52,020
the end

3074
00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:52,260
to end

3075
00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:52,540
flows

3076
00:42:52,540 --> 00:42:52,900
in one

3077
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:53,100
go

3078
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:53,980
you will

3079
00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:54,380
definitely

3080
00:42:54,380 --> 00:42:54,820
fail

3081
00:42:54,820 --> 00:42:55,240
if you

3082
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:55,420
do

3083
00:42:55,420 --> 00:42:55,680
that

3084
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:55,900
it

3085
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:56,040
is

3086
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:56,400
critical

3087
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:56,640
to

3088
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:56,780
do

3089
00:42:56,780 --> 00:42:57,080
this

3090
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:57,720
in

3091
00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:59,400
prioritized

3092
00:42:59,400 --> 00:42:59,720
thin

3093
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:00,280
slices

3094
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,480
across

3095
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:02,120
like

3096
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:02,680
domains

3097
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:03,080
where you

3098
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:03,420
strangle

3099
00:43:03,420 --> 00:43:03,880
domains

3100
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,640
the key

3101
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:08,980
what

3102
00:43:08,980 --> 00:43:09,900
so

3103
00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:10,420
maybe

3104
00:43:10,420 --> 00:43:10,900
we'll get

3105
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:11,220
into the

3106
00:43:11,220 --> 00:43:11,400
how

3107
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:11,800
later

3108
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:12,400
but

3109
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:12,800
how

3110
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:13,020
can

3111
00:43:13,020 --> 00:43:13,160
you

3112
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:13,520
fail

3113
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:13,760
with

3114
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:14,020
this

3115
00:43:14,020 --> 00:43:14,420
let's

3116
00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:14,620
talk

3117
00:43:14,620 --> 00:43:14,940
about

3118
00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:15,340
how

3119
00:43:15,340 --> 00:43:15,520
do

3120
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:15,640
you

3121
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:15,940
fail

3122
00:43:15,940 --> 00:43:16,280
with

3123
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:16,880
monolith

3124
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:17,620
modernization

3125
00:43:17,620 --> 00:43:19,980
you can

3126
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:20,400
fail

3127
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:21,060
if you

3128
00:43:21,060 --> 00:43:21,380
do

3129
00:43:21,380 --> 00:43:22,180
everything

3130
00:43:22,180 --> 00:43:23,040
in one

3131
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:23,300
go

3132
00:43:23,300 --> 00:43:24,200
right

3133
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,820
so

3134
00:43:25,820 --> 00:43:26,200
if you

3135
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:26,380
do

3136
00:43:26,380 --> 00:43:26,880
everything

3137
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:27,300
in one

3138
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:27,520
go

3139
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:28,040
you're

3140
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:28,360
guaranteed

3141
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:28,620
to

3142
00:43:28,620 --> 00:43:28,820
fail

3143
00:43:28,820 --> 00:43:30,080
another

3144
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:30,460
way

3145
00:43:30,460 --> 00:43:30,600
to

3146
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:30,860
fail

3147
00:43:30,860 --> 00:43:31,160
is

3148
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:31,320
you

3149
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:31,520
look

3150
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:31,740
for

3151
00:43:31,740 --> 00:43:32,100
silver

3152
00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:32,620
bullets

3153
00:43:32,620 --> 00:43:33,320
right

3154
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:34,700
when

3155
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:34,980
people

3156
00:43:34,980 --> 00:43:35,240
show

3157
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:35,380
up

3158
00:43:35,380 --> 00:43:35,520
and

3159
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:35,640
say

3160
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:35,900
okay

3161
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:36,140
this

3162
00:43:36,140 --> 00:43:36,240
is

3163
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:36,360
your

3164
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:36,660
critical

3165
00:43:36,660 --> 00:43:36,960
app

3166
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:37,180
let

3167
00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:37,280
me

3168
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:37,440
just

3169
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:37,600
take

3170
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:37,780
all

3171
00:43:37,780 --> 00:43:37,920
of

3172
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:38,040
it

3173
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:38,180
to

3174
00:43:38,180 --> 00:43:38,520
kubernetes

3175
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:38,920
I

3176
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:39,220
have

3177
00:43:39,220 --> 00:43:39,560
some

3178
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:40,240
I

3179
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:40,660
have

3180
00:43:40,660 --> 00:43:40,920
some

3181
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:41,360
secret

3182
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:41,940
sauce

3183
00:43:41,940 --> 00:43:42,260
that

3184
00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:42,660
will

3185
00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:43,920
generate

3186
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:44,720
code

3187
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:45,380
like

3188
00:43:45,380 --> 00:43:45,700
mainstream

3189
00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:46,280
modernization

3190
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:46,560
fails

3191
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:47,060
to this

3192
00:43:47,060 --> 00:43:47,360
where

3193
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:48,460
there

3194
00:43:48,460 --> 00:43:48,620
are

3195
00:43:48,620 --> 00:43:49,080
vendors

3196
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:49,360
that

3197
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:49,520
will

3198
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:49,860
generate

3199
00:43:49,860 --> 00:43:50,140
code

3200
00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:50,360
for

3201
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:50,620
you

3202
00:43:50,620 --> 00:43:50,980
but

3203
00:43:50,980 --> 00:43:52,020
they

3204
00:43:52,020 --> 00:43:52,260
don't

3205
00:43:52,260 --> 00:43:52,480
tell

3206
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:52,660
you

3207
00:43:52,660 --> 00:43:53,000
fully

3208
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:53,920
the

3209
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:54,360
delta

3210
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:54,600
that

3211
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:54,720
you

3212
00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:54,860
need

3213
00:43:54,860 --> 00:43:54,960
to

3214
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:55,540
move

3215
00:43:58,820 --> 00:43:59,580
all

3216
00:43:59,580 --> 00:43:59,880
of

3217
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:00,040
it

3218
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:00,240
in

3219
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:00,500
one

3220
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:00,820
go

3221
00:44:00,820 --> 00:44:01,600
move

3222
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:01,740
it

3223
00:44:01,740 --> 00:44:01,860
to

3224
00:44:01,860 --> 00:44:02,300
kubernetes

3225
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:02,720
or

3226
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:02,980
something

3227
00:44:02,980 --> 00:44:03,160
like

3228
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:03,320
that

3229
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,580
I

3230
00:44:05,580 --> 00:44:06,060
would

3231
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:06,240
be

3232
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:06,460
very

3233
00:44:06,460 --> 00:44:06,780
wary

3234
00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:07,180
of

3235
00:44:07,180 --> 00:44:07,720
silver

3236
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:08,160
bullets

3237
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,200
yesterday

3238
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,020
I'm

3239
00:44:12,020 --> 00:44:12,280
sure

3240
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:12,660
your

3241
00:44:12,660 --> 00:44:13,000
son

3242
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:13,600
has

3243
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:13,860
asked

3244
00:44:13,860 --> 00:44:14,240
questions

3245
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:14,440
like

3246
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:14,620
this

3247
00:44:14,620 --> 00:44:16,000
my

3248
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:16,280
son

3249
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:16,520
said

3250
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:16,620
he

3251
00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:16,940
heard

3252
00:44:16,940 --> 00:44:17,640
that

3253
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:17,900
someone

3254
00:44:17,900 --> 00:44:18,200
figured

3255
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:18,440
out

3256
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:18,600
how

3257
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:18,720
to

3258
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:19,020
bring

3259
00:44:19,020 --> 00:44:20,060
people

3260
00:44:20,060 --> 00:44:20,280
back

3261
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:20,460
to

3262
00:44:20,460 --> 00:44:20,740
life

3263
00:44:20,740 --> 00:44:21,180
and

3264
00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:21,300
it

3265
00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:21,540
cost

3266
00:44:21,540 --> 00:44:21,880
something

3267
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:22,240
like

3268
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:23,220
$50,000

3269
00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:24,520
because

3270
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:24,800
that's

3271
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:25,160
a lot

3272
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:25,300
of

3273
00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:25,560
money

3274
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:25,860
right

3275
00:44:25,860 --> 00:44:26,740
and

3276
00:44:26,740 --> 00:44:27,700
I

3277
00:44:27,700 --> 00:44:28,080
was

3278
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:28,340
saying

3279
00:44:28,340 --> 00:44:28,700
I

3280
00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:29,340
try

3281
00:44:29,340 --> 00:44:29,620
never

3282
00:44:29,620 --> 00:44:29,960
to

3283
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:30,640
be

3284
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:30,860
like

3285
00:44:30,860 --> 00:44:31,200
that's

3286
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:31,680
of

3287
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:31,900
course

3288
00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:32,140
not

3289
00:44:32,140 --> 00:44:32,320
you

3290
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:32,460
must

3291
00:44:32,460 --> 00:44:32,600
be

3292
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:32,880
wrong

3293
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:33,120
so

3294
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:33,220
I

3295
00:44:33,220 --> 00:44:33,300
was

3296
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:33,480
like

3297
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:33,680
oh

3298
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:33,820
I

3299
00:44:33,820 --> 00:44:34,060
haven't

3300
00:44:34,060 --> 00:44:34,220
heard

3301
00:44:34,220 --> 00:44:34,400
that

3302
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:34,640
that's

3303
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:35,060
interesting

3304
00:44:35,060 --> 00:44:35,780
and

3305
00:44:35,780 --> 00:44:36,080
we

3306
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:36,460
were

3307
00:44:36,460 --> 00:44:36,940
walking

3308
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:37,520
and

3309
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:37,760
kind

3310
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:37,900
of

3311
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:38,080
like

3312
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:38,220
with

3313
00:44:38,220 --> 00:44:38,400
this

3314
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:38,720
point

3315
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:39,280
I'm

3316
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:39,740
imagining

3317
00:44:39,740 --> 00:44:40,000
like

3318
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:40,120
I

3319
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:40,280
was

3320
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:40,960
thinking

3321
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:41,280
like

3322
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:41,620
well

3323
00:44:41,620 --> 00:44:42,880
what

3324
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:43,040
if

3325
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:43,180
they

3326
00:44:43,180 --> 00:44:43,660
died

3327
00:44:43,660 --> 00:44:43,880
of

3328
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:44,440
cancer

3329
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:44,900
when

3330
00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:45,040
they

3331
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:45,200
come

3332
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:45,420
back

3333
00:44:45,420 --> 00:44:45,580
to

3334
00:44:45,580 --> 00:44:45,800
life

3335
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:46,000
does

3336
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:46,120
it

3337
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:46,440
also

3338
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:46,700
cure

3339
00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:46,880
the

3340
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:47,220
cancer

3341
00:44:47,220 --> 00:44:47,500
because

3342
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:47,700
then

3343
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:47,820
they

3344
00:44:47,820 --> 00:44:47,980
would

3345
00:44:47,980 --> 00:44:48,480
die

3346
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:48,960
again

3347
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,320
and

3348
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:51,620
you

3349
00:44:51,620 --> 00:44:51,780
know

3350
00:44:51,780 --> 00:44:52,260
I

3351
00:44:58,340 --> 00:44:58,740
probably

3352
00:44:58,740 --> 00:44:59,460
repackage

3353
00:44:59,460 --> 00:45:00,000
everything

3354
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:00,760
to run

3355
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:00,900
on

3356
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:01,340
Kubernetes

3357
00:45:01,340 --> 00:45:01,960
and

3358
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:02,060
then

3359
00:45:02,060 --> 00:45:02,240
you're

3360
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:02,400
going to

3361
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:02,800
find out

3362
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:02,940
that

3363
00:45:02,940 --> 00:45:03,220
these

3364
00:45:03,220 --> 00:45:03,500
like

3365
00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:03,860
five

3366
00:45:03,860 --> 00:45:04,100
other

3367
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:04,620
services

3368
00:45:04,620 --> 00:45:05,120
that

3369
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:05,280
you're

3370
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:05,600
relying

3371
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:05,880
on

3372
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:06,160
don't

3373
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:06,460
work

3374
00:45:06,460 --> 00:45:06,800
or

3375
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:07,000
these

3376
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:07,200
other

3377
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:07,440
things

3378
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:07,640
don't

3379
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:07,840
work

3380
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:08,020
so

3381
00:45:08,020 --> 00:45:08,220
it's

3382
00:45:08,220 --> 00:45:08,480
like

3383
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:09,480
you

3384
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:09,600
know

3385
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:09,780
you

3386
00:45:09,780 --> 00:45:09,940
might

3387
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:10,120
have

3388
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:10,260
a

3389
00:45:10,260 --> 00:45:10,500
silver

3390
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:10,840
bullet

3391
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:11,120
that

3392
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:11,320
can

3393
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:11,560
like

3394
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:11,700
you

3395
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:11,920
know

3396
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:12,380
chop

3397
00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:12,540
a

3398
00:45:12,540 --> 00:45:12,740
finger

3399
00:45:12,740 --> 00:45:13,140
off

3400
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:13,840
but

3401
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:14,040
you're

3402
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:14,200
not

3403
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:14,340
going

3404
00:45:14,340 --> 00:45:14,440
to

3405
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:14,600
really

3406
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:14,820
like

3407
00:45:14,820 --> 00:45:15,080
take

3408
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:15,320
care

3409
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:15,460
of

3410
00:45:15,460 --> 00:45:15,560
the

3411
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:15,720
whole

3412
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:16,020
thing

3413
00:45:16,020 --> 00:45:16,360
that's

3414
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:16,480
kind

3415
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:16,620
of

3416
00:45:16,620 --> 00:45:16,780
a

3417
00:45:16,780 --> 00:45:17,420
drastic

3418
00:45:17,420 --> 00:45:17,660
way

3419
00:45:17,660 --> 00:45:17,780
of

3420
00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:17,980
putting

3421
00:45:17,980 --> 00:45:18,160
it

3422
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:18,280
but

3423
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:18,380
you

3424
00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:19,040
might

3425
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:19,600
be

3426
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:19,680
able

3427
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:19,800
to

3428
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:20,040
solve

3429
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:20,440
one

3430
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:21,280
bit

3431
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:21,540
of

3432
00:45:21,540 --> 00:45:21,680
the

3433
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:22,000
whole

3434
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:22,760
system

3435
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:23,320
but

3436
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:24,460
rarely

3437
00:45:24,460 --> 00:45:24,720
the

3438
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:24,880
whole

3439
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:25,240
thing

3440
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:26,160
yeah

3441
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:26,420
and

3442
00:45:26,420 --> 00:45:26,520
to

3443
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:26,860
what

3444
00:45:26,860 --> 00:45:27,200
end

3445
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:27,760
you

3446
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:28,140
have

3447
00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:28,240
to

3448
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:28,880
work

3449
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:29,060
your

3450
00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:29,280
way

3451
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:29,600
back

3452
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:29,820
from

3453
00:45:29,820 --> 00:45:29,960
the

3454
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:30,300
outcome

3455
00:45:30,300 --> 00:45:30,520
that

3456
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:30,660
you

3457
00:45:30,660 --> 00:45:30,980
want

3458
00:45:30,980 --> 00:45:31,320
like

3459
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:31,580
why

3460
00:45:31,580 --> 00:45:31,760
are

3461
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:31,900
you

3462
00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:32,260
moving

3463
00:45:32,260 --> 00:45:32,540
this

3464
00:45:32,540 --> 00:45:32,800
why

3465
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:32,940
are

3466
00:45:32,940 --> 00:45:33,040
you

3467
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:33,680
modernizing

3468
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:33,880
it

3469
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:34,060
why

3470
00:45:34,060 --> 00:45:34,200
are

3471
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:34,300
you

3472
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:34,600
breaking

3473
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:34,840
it

3474
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:35,020
down

3475
00:45:35,020 --> 00:45:35,180
like

3476
00:45:35,180 --> 00:45:35,420
what

3477
00:45:35,420 --> 00:45:36,180
what

3478
00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:36,300
do

3479
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:36,400
you

3480
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:36,620
want

3481
00:45:36,620 --> 00:45:36,740
to

3482
00:45:36,740 --> 00:45:37,120
achieve

3483
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:37,320
do

3484
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:37,440
you

3485
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:37,660
want

3486
00:45:37,660 --> 00:45:37,780
to

3487
00:45:37,780 --> 00:45:38,220
achieve

3488
00:45:38,220 --> 00:45:38,720
a

3489
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:39,200
faster

3490
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,280
path

3491
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:40,420
to

3492
00:45:40,420 --> 00:45:40,800
production

3493
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:41,040
for

3494
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:41,460
features

3495
00:45:41,460 --> 00:45:42,140
do

3496
00:45:42,140 --> 00:45:42,280
you

3497
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:42,560
want

3498
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:42,700
a

3499
00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:42,980
new

3500
00:45:42,980 --> 00:45:43,780
enhanced

3501
00:45:43,780 --> 00:45:44,200
digital

3502
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:44,820
experience

3503
00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:45,660
are

3504
00:45:45,660 --> 00:45:45,920
you

3505
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:46,620
migrating

3506
00:45:46,620 --> 00:45:46,920
this

3507
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:47,080
to

3508
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:47,280
the

3509
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:47,760
cloud

3510
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:48,680
for

3511
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:48,700
for

3512
00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:50,200
optimization

3513
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:50,820
and

3514
00:45:50,820 --> 00:45:51,100
for

3515
00:45:51,100 --> 00:45:53,160
consolidating

3516
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:53,640
infrastructure

3517
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:54,360
you

3518
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:54,700
have

3519
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:54,920
to

3520
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:55,680
make

3521
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:55,920
your

3522
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:56,320
way

3523
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:56,780
back

3524
00:45:56,780 --> 00:45:57,140
from

3525
00:45:57,140 --> 00:45:57,600
outcome

3526
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:57,900
that

3527
00:45:57,900 --> 00:45:58,040
you

3528
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:58,440
want

3529
00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:58,720
like

3530
00:45:58,720 --> 00:45:59,100
have

3531
00:45:59,100 --> 00:45:59,280
an

3532
00:45:59,280 --> 00:45:59,800
outcome

3533
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:00,380
oriented

3534
00:46:00,380 --> 00:46:00,860
roadmap

3535
00:46:00,860 --> 00:46:02,040
especially

3536
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:02,740
when it

3537
00:46:02,740 --> 00:46:03,140
comes to

3538
00:46:03,140 --> 00:46:03,680
massive

3539
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:04,480
projects

3540
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:05,140
you have

3541
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:05,260
to

3542
00:46:05,260 --> 00:46:05,760
work

3543
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:05,940
your

3544
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:06,160
way

3545
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:06,460
back

3546
00:46:06,460 --> 00:46:07,080
create

3547
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:07,280
an

3548
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:07,700
outcome

3549
00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:08,240
oriented

3550
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:08,700
roadmap

3551
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:09,580
to

3552
00:46:09,580 --> 00:46:10,580
then

3553
00:46:10,580 --> 00:46:11,080
understand

3554
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:11,420
why

3555
00:46:11,420 --> 00:46:11,660
are

3556
00:46:11,660 --> 00:46:11,820
we

3557
00:46:11,820 --> 00:46:12,120
doing

3558
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:12,320
this

3559
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:12,480
and

3560
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:12,700
we

3561
00:46:12,700 --> 00:46:12,820
are

3562
00:46:12,820 --> 00:46:13,120
breaking

3563
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:13,380
this

3564
00:46:13,380 --> 00:46:13,640
down

3565
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:13,820
and

3566
00:46:13,820 --> 00:46:14,220
modernize

3567
00:46:14,220 --> 00:46:14,700
that's

3568
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:15,000
another

3569
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:15,400
driver

3570
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:15,620
to

3571
00:46:15,620 --> 00:46:16,040
understand

3572
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:16,840
should

3573
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:17,000
I

3574
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:17,320
be

3575
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:17,560
doing

3576
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:17,780
lift

3577
00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:17,940
and

3578
00:46:17,940 --> 00:46:18,080
shift

3579
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:18,280
or

3580
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:18,480
should

3581
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:18,660
I

3582
00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:18,960
be

3583
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,000
modernizing

3584
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:20,240
it

3585
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:20,900
figure

3586
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:21,120
out

3587
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:21,280
what

3588
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:21,400
you

3589
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:21,640
want

3590
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:22,000
first

3591
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:22,520
and

3592
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:22,720
then

3593
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:23,000
work

3594
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:23,180
your

3595
00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:23,400
way

3596
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:23,700
back

3597
00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:26,740
another

3598
00:46:26,740 --> 00:46:27,060
couple

3599
00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:27,240
of

3600
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:27,480
things

3601
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:27,640
is

3602
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:27,960
you

3603
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:28,260
can't

3604
00:46:28,260 --> 00:46:28,540
half

3605
00:46:28,540 --> 00:46:28,780
ass

3606
00:46:28,780 --> 00:46:29,100
this

3607
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:30,740
the

3608
00:46:30,740 --> 00:46:31,140
thing

3609
00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:31,640
is

3610
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:32,280
what

3611
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:32,420
I

3612
00:46:32,420 --> 00:46:32,600
have

3613
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:32,920
seen

3614
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:33,300
a lot

3615
00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:33,480
in

3616
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:33,620
the

3617
00:46:33,620 --> 00:46:33,940
while

3618
00:46:33,940 --> 00:46:35,020
with

3619
00:46:35,020 --> 00:46:35,460
customers

3620
00:46:35,460 --> 00:46:35,780
is

3621
00:46:35,780 --> 00:46:35,940
the

3622
00:46:35,940 --> 00:46:36,320
projects

3623
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:36,560
get

3624
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:37,000
started

3625
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:37,720
and

3626
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:38,120
then

3627
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:38,640
because

3628
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,000
almost

3629
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:40,580
always

3630
00:46:40,580 --> 00:46:40,820
what

3631
00:46:40,820 --> 00:46:41,180
happens

3632
00:46:41,180 --> 00:46:41,340
is

3633
00:46:41,340 --> 00:46:41,500
it

3634
00:46:41,500 --> 00:46:41,620
will

3635
00:46:41,620 --> 00:46:41,820
get

3636
00:46:41,820 --> 00:46:42,220
worse

3637
00:46:42,220 --> 00:46:42,600
before

3638
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:42,760
it

3639
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:42,900
will

3640
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:43,100
get

3641
00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:43,460
better

3642
00:46:43,460 --> 00:46:43,900
I

3643
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:44,060
call

3644
00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:44,200
that

3645
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:45,300
WBP

3646
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:46,020
because

3647
00:46:46,020 --> 00:46:46,540
then

3648
00:46:46,540 --> 00:46:47,000
you

3649
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:47,200
have

3650
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:47,820
the

3651
00:46:47,820 --> 00:46:48,420
application

3652
00:46:48,420 --> 00:46:48,620
is

3653
00:46:48,620 --> 00:46:48,800
under

3654
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:49,220
development

3655
00:46:49,220 --> 00:46:49,460
you

3656
00:46:49,460 --> 00:46:49,640
have

3657
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:50,160
another

3658
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:50,720
alternate

3659
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:51,300
stream

3660
00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:51,640
that

3661
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:51,820
is

3662
00:46:51,820 --> 00:46:52,460
trying to

3663
00:46:52,460 --> 00:46:52,860
strangle

3664
00:46:52,860 --> 00:46:53,100
it

3665
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:53,280
at

3666
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:54,040
the

3667
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:54,760
same

3668
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:55,160
time

3669
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:55,640
it

3670
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:56,060
almost

3671
00:46:56,060 --> 00:46:56,500
always

3672
00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:56,780
gets

3673
00:46:56,780 --> 00:46:57,660
worse

3674
00:46:57,660 --> 00:46:58,080
before

3675
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:58,300
it

3676
00:46:58,300 --> 00:46:58,580
starts

3677
00:46:58,580 --> 00:46:58,860
getting

3678
00:46:58,860 --> 00:46:59,240
better

3679
00:46:59,240 --> 00:46:59,820
if

3680
00:46:59,820 --> 00:47:00,060
you

3681
00:47:00,060 --> 00:47:01,140
are

3682
00:47:01,140 --> 00:47:01,380
not

3683
00:47:01,380 --> 00:47:01,620
able

3684
00:47:01,620 --> 00:47:01,820
to

3685
00:47:01,820 --> 00:47:02,140
cross

3686
00:47:02,140 --> 00:47:02,400
that

3687
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:02,820
chasm

3688
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:03,480
and

3689
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:03,720
then

3690
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:03,880
you

3691
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:04,100
just

3692
00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:04,540
abandon

3693
00:47:04,540 --> 00:47:04,800
it

3694
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:05,160
halfway

3695
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:05,680
then

3696
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:05,820
you

3697
00:47:05,820 --> 00:47:06,060
have

3698
00:47:06,060 --> 00:47:06,280
a

3699
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:06,660
series

3700
00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:07,140
of

3701
00:47:07,140 --> 00:47:07,800
half

3702
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:08,240
started

3703
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:08,580
app

3704
00:47:08,580 --> 00:47:09,540
modernizations

3705
00:47:09,540 --> 00:47:10,380
where

3706
00:47:10,380 --> 00:47:11,040
you

3707
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:11,560
didn't

3708
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:12,460
really

3709
00:47:12,460 --> 00:47:12,800
achieve

3710
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:13,120
anything

3711
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:13,300
and

3712
00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:13,440
just

3713
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:13,660
spent

3714
00:47:13,660 --> 00:47:13,780
a

3715
00:47:13,780 --> 00:47:13,920
whole

3716
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:14,060
ton

3717
00:47:14,060 --> 00:47:14,200
of

3718
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:14,400
money

3719
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,840
don't

3720
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:18,120
half

3721
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:18,360
ass

3722
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:18,540
it

3723
00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:19,000
and

3724
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:19,180
it

3725
00:47:19,180 --> 00:47:19,360
will

3726
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:19,560
get

3727
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:19,840
worse

3728
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:20,120
before

3729
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:20,280
it

3730
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:20,600
becomes

3731
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:20,920
better

3732
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:21,220
there

3733
00:47:21,220 --> 00:47:21,360
is

3734
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,580
no

3735
00:47:23,580 --> 00:47:24,140
outsource

3736
00:47:24,140 --> 00:47:24,660
provider

3737
00:47:24,660 --> 00:47:24,900
that

3738
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:25,080
can

3739
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:25,260
just

3740
00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:25,700
magically

3741
00:47:25,700 --> 00:47:25,960
do

3742
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:26,180
this

3743
00:47:26,180 --> 00:47:26,380
for

3744
00:47:26,380 --> 00:47:26,640
you

3745
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,020
at

3746
00:47:27,020 --> 00:47:27,160
an

3747
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:27,380
x

3748
00:47:27,380 --> 00:47:27,720
amount

3749
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:27,900
of

3750
00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:28,160
money

3751
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:28,720
it's

3752
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:28,880
a

3753
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:29,220
very

3754
00:47:29,220 --> 00:47:30,280
collaborative

3755
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:30,800
effort

3756
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:31,040
where

3757
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:31,160
you

3758
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:31,380
have

3759
00:47:31,380 --> 00:47:31,520
to

3760
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:31,900
work

3761
00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:32,120
with

3762
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:32,300
your

3763
00:47:32,300 --> 00:47:32,720
partner

3764
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:33,380
very

3765
00:47:33,380 --> 00:47:33,740
close

3766
00:47:33,740 --> 00:47:34,540
to

3767
00:47:34,540 --> 00:47:34,780
make

3768
00:47:34,780 --> 00:47:35,180
happen

3769
00:47:35,180 --> 00:47:35,700
you

3770
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:36,360
know

3771
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:36,700
those

3772
00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:36,840
hit

3773
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:36,980
on

3774
00:47:36,980 --> 00:47:37,240
two

3775
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:37,800
of

3776
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:37,940
the

3777
00:47:37,940 --> 00:47:38,180
main

3778
00:47:38,180 --> 00:47:38,460
things

3779
00:47:38,460 --> 00:47:38,680
I

3780
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:39,220
generally

3781
00:47:39,220 --> 00:47:39,660
talk

3782
00:47:39,660 --> 00:47:39,780
with

3783
00:47:39,780 --> 00:47:39,980
people

3784
00:47:39,980 --> 00:47:40,200
about

3785
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:40,360
what

3786
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:40,540
I've

3787
00:47:40,540 --> 00:47:40,820
seen

3788
00:47:40,820 --> 00:47:41,300
over

3789
00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:41,700
the

3790
00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:41,940
years

3791
00:47:41,940 --> 00:47:42,120
is

3792
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:42,320
like

3793
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:42,640
one

3794
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,760
you

3795
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:43,960
need

3796
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:44,100
to

3797
00:47:44,100 --> 00:47:44,400
actually

3798
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:44,640
do

3799
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:44,780
the

3800
00:47:44,780 --> 00:47:45,080
work

3801
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:45,920
right

3802
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,180
like

3803
00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:46,720
you

3804
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:46,880
have

3805
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,060
to

3806
00:47:47,060 --> 00:47:48,600
you

3807
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:48,800
know

3808
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:49,140
whether

3809
00:47:49,140 --> 00:47:49,340
you're

3810
00:47:49,340 --> 00:47:49,540
working

3811
00:47:49,540 --> 00:47:49,760
with

3812
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:50,020
someone

3813
00:47:50,020 --> 00:47:50,200
or

3814
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:50,360
you're

3815
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:50,540
going

3816
00:47:50,540 --> 00:47:50,700
through

3817
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:50,900
this

3818
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:51,580
tediousness

3819
00:47:51,580 --> 00:47:51,700
of

3820
00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:51,920
doing

3821
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:52,080
it

3822
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:52,260
there's

3823
00:47:52,260 --> 00:47:52,860
work

3824
00:47:52,860 --> 00:47:53,020
to

3825
00:47:53,020 --> 00:47:53,240
do

3826
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:53,660
like

3827
00:47:53,660 --> 00:47:53,820
you

3828
00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:53,940
see

3829
00:47:53,940 --> 00:47:54,100
this

3830
00:47:54,100 --> 00:47:54,240
all

3831
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:54,340
the

3832
00:47:54,340 --> 00:47:54,620
time

3833
00:47:54,620 --> 00:47:54,780
and

3834
00:47:54,780 --> 00:47:54,960
like

3835
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:55,320
agile

3836
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:55,720
people

3837
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:56,060
don't

3838
00:47:56,060 --> 00:47:56,400
actually

3839
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:56,780
follow

3840
00:47:56,780 --> 00:47:57,020
all

3841
00:47:57,020 --> 00:47:57,160
the

3842
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:57,420
agile

3843
00:47:57,420 --> 00:47:57,920
practices

3844
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:58,320
and

3845
00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:58,780
you're

3846
00:47:58,780 --> 00:47:58,920
just

3847
00:47:58,920 --> 00:47:59,140
like

3848
00:47:59,140 --> 00:47:59,340
well

3849
00:47:59,340 --> 00:47:59,680
I

3850
00:47:59,680 --> 00:47:59,780
don't

3851
00:47:59,780 --> 00:47:59,880
know

3852
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:00,000
what

3853
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:00,120
to

3854
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:00,280
tell

3855
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:00,600
you

3856
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:00,860
right

3857
00:48:00,860 --> 00:48:01,080
like

3858
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:01,600
and

3859
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:01,800
then

3860
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:02,580
the

3861
00:48:02,580 --> 00:48:02,740
other

3862
00:48:02,740 --> 00:48:03,020
thing

3863
00:48:03,020 --> 00:48:03,140
I

3864
00:48:03,140 --> 00:48:03,300
think

3865
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:03,560
is

3866
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:04,500
a lot

3867
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:04,600
of

3868
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:04,900
those

3869
00:48:04,900 --> 00:48:05,320
not

3870
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,180
another

3871
00:48:06,180 --> 00:48:06,820
general

3872
00:48:06,820 --> 00:48:07,180
point

3873
00:48:07,180 --> 00:48:07,380
is

3874
00:48:07,380 --> 00:48:07,660
like

3875
00:48:07,660 --> 00:48:08,000
it's

3876
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:08,480
going

3877
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:08,600
to

3878
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:08,820
take

3879
00:48:08,820 --> 00:48:08,960
a

3880
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:09,240
while

3881
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:09,920
right

3882
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:10,200
like

3883
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,160
it

3884
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:11,360
took

3885
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:11,480
you

3886
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:11,620
a

3887
00:48:11,620 --> 00:48:11,760
long

3888
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:11,960
time

3889
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:12,100
to

3890
00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:12,260
write

3891
00:48:12,260 --> 00:48:12,480
these

3892
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:13,080
applications

3893
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:13,760
we

3894
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:14,020
can't

3895
00:48:14,020 --> 00:48:14,220
just

3896
00:48:14,220 --> 00:48:14,520
like

3897
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:14,900
do

3898
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:15,140
it

3899
00:48:15,140 --> 00:48:15,760
overnight

3900
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:16,120
or

3901
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:16,440
even

3902
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:16,640
in

3903
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:16,860
six

3904
00:48:16,860 --> 00:48:17,200
months

3905
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:17,580
right

3906
00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:17,860
it's

3907
00:48:17,860 --> 00:48:17,960
going

3908
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:18,060
to

3909
00:48:18,060 --> 00:48:18,240
take

3910
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:18,400
a

3911
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:18,820
while

3912
00:48:18,820 --> 00:48:18,980
to

3913
00:48:18,980 --> 00:48:19,100
go

3914
00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:19,240
through

3915
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:19,380
your

3916
00:48:19,380 --> 00:48:19,680
entire

3917
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:20,260
portfolio

3918
00:48:20,260 --> 00:48:21,000
so

3919
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:21,840
I

3920
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:22,000
see

3921
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:22,120
you

3922
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:22,360
starting

3923
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:22,600
with

3924
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:23,160
success

3925
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:23,720
maybe

3926
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:23,960
that's

3927
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:24,040
a

3928
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:24,240
great

3929
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:24,520
cliff

3930
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:25,080
cliff

3931
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,300
holder

3932
00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:26,980
cliffhanger

3933
00:48:26,980 --> 00:48:27,620
because

3934
00:48:27,620 --> 00:48:27,960
of course

3935
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:28,180
you want

3936
00:48:28,180 --> 00:48:28,320
to know

3937
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:28,460
that

3938
00:48:28,460 --> 00:48:28,680
but

3939
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:29,120
there

3940
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:29,600
was

3941
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:30,300
we

3942
00:48:30,300 --> 00:48:30,440
got

3943
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:30,660
we're

3944
00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:30,860
lucky

3945
00:48:30,860 --> 00:48:31,140
to get

3946
00:48:31,140 --> 00:48:31,320
one

3947
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:31,720
question

3948
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:31,920
maybe

3949
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:32,040
we

3950
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:32,180
can

3951
00:48:32,180 --> 00:48:32,420
close

3952
00:48:32,420 --> 00:48:32,580
out

3953
00:48:32,580 --> 00:48:32,720
with

3954
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:32,820
the

3955
00:48:32,820 --> 00:48:33,220
question

3956
00:48:33,220 --> 00:48:33,640
and

3957
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:33,800
that

3958
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:34,020
is

3959
00:48:34,020 --> 00:48:34,540
so

3960
00:48:34,540 --> 00:48:34,660
you

3961
00:48:34,660 --> 00:48:34,740
know

3962
00:48:34,740 --> 00:48:34,900
you're

3963
00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:35,280
mentioning

3964
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,260
like

3965
00:48:36,260 --> 00:48:37,060
security

3966
00:48:37,060 --> 00:48:37,520
and we're

3967
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:37,900
talking about

3968
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:38,160
all these

3969
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:38,580
services

3970
00:48:38,580 --> 00:48:39,160
and stuff

3971
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:40,420
do

3972
00:48:40,420 --> 00:48:41,260
people

3973
00:48:41,260 --> 00:48:41,640
using

3974
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:42,120
service

3975
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:42,620
meshes

3976
00:48:42,620 --> 00:48:43,240
whether

3977
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:43,580
it's

3978
00:48:43,580 --> 00:48:44,040
ISTE

3979
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:44,400
or other

3980
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:44,700
things

3981
00:48:44,700 --> 00:48:45,140
does that

3982
00:48:45,140 --> 00:48:45,860
help

3983
00:48:45,860 --> 00:48:46,460
alleviate

3984
00:48:46,460 --> 00:48:46,760
some

3985
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:46,860
of

3986
00:48:46,860 --> 00:48:47,040
those

3987
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:47,400
things

3988
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,000
a lot

3989
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:50,400
of

3990
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:50,520
the

3991
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:50,800
issues

3992
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:51,040
whether

3993
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:51,240
it's

3994
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:51,360
with

3995
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:51,760
security

3996
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:52,200
things

3997
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:52,380
or

3998
00:48:52,380 --> 00:48:52,920
databases

3999
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:53,300
or

4000
00:48:53,300 --> 00:48:53,740
services

4001
00:48:53,740 --> 00:48:54,100
get

4002
00:48:54,100 --> 00:48:54,360
down

4003
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:54,580
to

4004
00:48:54,580 --> 00:48:55,980
networking

4005
00:48:55,980 --> 00:48:57,520
and

4006
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:58,080
in

4007
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:58,460
distributed

4008
00:48:58,460 --> 00:48:59,100
applications

4009
00:48:59,100 --> 00:48:59,600
networking

4010
00:48:59,600 --> 00:48:59,940
is just

4011
00:48:59,940 --> 00:49:00,120
like

4012
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:00,360
on the

4013
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:00,640
internet

4014
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:00,920
right

4015
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:01,680
you

4016
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:01,900
have

4017
00:49:01,900 --> 00:49:02,160
to

4018
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,400
know

4019
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:03,580
what

4020
00:49:03,580 --> 00:49:03,760
you're

4021
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:04,000
looking

4022
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:04,400
for

4023
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:04,940
then

4024
00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:05,060
you

4025
00:49:05,060 --> 00:49:05,180
have

4026
00:49:05,180 --> 00:49:05,240
to

4027
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:05,580
ask

4028
00:49:05,580 --> 00:49:05,720
a

4029
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:06,100
registry

4030
00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:06,420
where

4031
00:49:06,420 --> 00:49:06,640
that

4032
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:06,880
thing

4033
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:07,220
is

4034
00:49:07,220 --> 00:49:07,800
then

4035
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:07,920
you

4036
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:08,080
have

4037
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:08,200
to

4038
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:08,760
authenticate

4039
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:08,980
with

4040
00:49:08,980 --> 00:49:09,180
that

4041
00:49:09,180 --> 00:49:09,480
thing

4042
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:09,840
to

4043
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:10,000
make

4044
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:10,160
sure

4045
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:10,320
you

4046
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:10,480
have

4047
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:10,800
permission

4048
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:11,000
to

4049
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:11,220
talk

4050
00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:11,340
to

4051
00:49:11,340 --> 00:49:11,500
that

4052
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:11,800
thing

4053
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:12,420
and

4054
00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:12,720
then

4055
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:13,020
you

4056
00:49:13,020 --> 00:49:13,180
have

4057
00:49:13,180 --> 00:49:13,280
to

4058
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:13,440
hope

4059
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:13,600
the

4060
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:13,840
thing

4061
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:14,480
understands

4062
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:14,680
what

4063
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:14,820
you're

4064
00:49:14,820 --> 00:49:15,120
saying

4065
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:15,380
to

4066
00:49:15,380 --> 00:49:15,600
it

4067
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:16,060
and

4068
00:49:16,060 --> 00:49:16,180
then

4069
00:49:16,180 --> 00:49:16,320
you

4070
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:16,560
also

4071
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:16,800
have

4072
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:17,100
to

4073
00:49:17,100 --> 00:49:17,700
get

4074
00:49:17,700 --> 00:49:17,880
the

4075
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:18,200
stuff

4076
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:18,460
that

4077
00:49:18,460 --> 00:49:18,580
it

4078
00:49:18,580 --> 00:49:18,820
sends

4079
00:49:18,820 --> 00:49:19,080
back

4080
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:19,240
to

4081
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:19,460
you

4082
00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:19,980
and

4083
00:49:19,980 --> 00:49:20,160
then

4084
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:20,320
you

4085
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:20,520
have

4086
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:20,640
to

4087
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:21,220
understand

4088
00:49:21,220 --> 00:49:21,800
what

4089
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:21,980
it's

4090
00:49:21,980 --> 00:49:22,200
sending

4091
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:22,460
you

4092
00:49:22,460 --> 00:49:22,740
never

4093
00:49:22,740 --> 00:49:23,060
minding

4094
00:49:23,060 --> 00:49:23,220
that

4095
00:49:23,220 --> 00:49:23,660
principle

4096
00:49:23,660 --> 00:49:24,080
about

4097
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,820
be

4098
00:49:25,820 --> 00:49:26,240
strict

4099
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:26,420
in

4100
00:49:26,420 --> 00:49:26,560
what

4101
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:26,700
you

4102
00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:27,000
send

4103
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:27,220
and

4104
00:49:27,220 --> 00:49:27,480
loosen

4105
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:27,740
what

4106
00:49:27,740 --> 00:49:27,880
you

4107
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:28,180
hear

4108
00:49:28,180 --> 00:49:28,340
or

4109
00:49:28,340 --> 00:49:28,620
whatever

4110
00:49:28,620 --> 00:49:29,080
but

4111
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:29,540
how

4112
00:49:29,540 --> 00:49:30,380
does

4113
00:49:30,380 --> 00:49:30,500
the

4114
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:30,800
service

4115
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:31,060
mesh

4116
00:49:31,060 --> 00:49:31,320
help

4117
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:31,560
out

4118
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:31,860
with

4119
00:49:31,860 --> 00:49:32,340
those

4120
00:49:32,340 --> 00:49:32,580
kind

4121
00:49:32,580 --> 00:49:32,700
of

4122
00:49:32,700 --> 00:49:33,060
issues

4123
00:49:33,060 --> 00:49:34,540
yeah

4124
00:49:34,540 --> 00:49:34,880
so

4125
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,240
the

4126
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:35,620
service

4127
00:49:35,620 --> 00:49:35,820
mesh

4128
00:49:35,820 --> 00:49:36,320
basically

4129
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:37,100
provides

4130
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:37,700
a

4131
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:38,920
consistent

4132
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:39,560
back

4133
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:40,060
plane

4134
00:49:40,060 --> 00:49:40,660
right

4135
00:49:40,660 --> 00:49:41,100
for

4136
00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:42,160
service

4137
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:42,900
discovery

4138
00:49:42,900 --> 00:49:44,380
so

4139
00:49:44,380 --> 00:49:44,580
that

4140
00:49:44,580 --> 00:49:44,880
this

4141
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:45,480
monolithic

4142
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:46,140
application

4143
00:49:46,140 --> 00:49:46,500
can

4144
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:46,980
discover

4145
00:49:46,980 --> 00:49:47,460
all

4146
00:49:47,460 --> 00:49:47,660
these

4147
00:49:47,660 --> 00:49:48,140
other

4148
00:49:48,140 --> 00:49:49,500
microservices

4149
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:50,180
kind

4150
00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:50,360
of

4151
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:51,200
transparently

4152
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:51,800
right

4153
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:52,620
without

4154
00:49:52,620 --> 00:49:53,120
like

4155
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:53,520
much

4156
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:53,940
churn

4157
00:49:53,940 --> 00:49:54,200
like

4158
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:54,440
in

4159
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:54,560
the

4160
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:54,760
way

4161
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:54,980
that

4162
00:49:54,980 --> 00:49:55,280
he

4163
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:55,880
expects

4164
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:56,320
to

4165
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:56,560
find

4166
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:56,900
things

4167
00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:57,400
and

4168
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:57,760
these

4169
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:58,740
microservices

4170
00:49:58,740 --> 00:49:59,180
can

4171
00:49:59,180 --> 00:49:59,600
find

4172
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:00,040
other

4173
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,060
things

4174
00:50:01,060 --> 00:50:01,660
the

4175
00:50:01,660 --> 00:50:02,080
service

4176
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,020
mesh

4177
00:50:03,020 --> 00:50:03,460
basically

4178
00:50:03,460 --> 00:50:04,180
provides

4179
00:50:04,180 --> 00:50:04,760
a way

4180
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:04,940
to

4181
00:50:04,940 --> 00:50:05,800
encapsulate

4182
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:06,440
right

4183
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,300
service

4184
00:50:07,300 --> 00:50:07,920
discovery

4185
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:08,800
and do

4186
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:09,160
it in

4187
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:09,500
a way

4188
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:09,980
that is

4189
00:50:09,980 --> 00:50:10,780
kind of

4190
00:50:10,780 --> 00:50:11,840
that is

4191
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:12,180
done

4192
00:50:12,180 --> 00:50:12,960
in the way

4193
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:13,460
the monolith

4194
00:50:13,460 --> 00:50:14,180
expects it

4195
00:50:14,180 --> 00:50:14,760
and how

4196
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:15,420
the individual

4197
00:50:15,420 --> 00:50:16,200
microservices

4198
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:16,940
can discover

4199
00:50:16,940 --> 00:50:17,160
it

4200
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:17,820
so it

4201
00:50:17,820 --> 00:50:18,080
makes

4202
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:18,340
just

4203
00:50:18,340 --> 00:50:18,640
service

4204
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:19,060
discovery

4205
00:50:19,060 --> 00:50:19,480
easy

4206
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:19,920
it

4207
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:20,460
provides

4208
00:50:20,460 --> 00:50:22,420
examples

4209
00:50:22,420 --> 00:50:22,960
like

4210
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:23,580
Istio

4211
00:50:23,580 --> 00:50:24,100
or

4212
00:50:24,100 --> 00:50:24,580
console

4213
00:50:24,580 --> 00:50:25,480
it

4214
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:26,020
provides

4215
00:50:26,020 --> 00:50:26,380
a

4216
00:50:26,380 --> 00:50:26,820
consistent

4217
00:50:26,820 --> 00:50:27,380
way

4218
00:50:27,380 --> 00:50:27,760
of

4219
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:28,280
finding

4220
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:28,940
services

4221
00:50:28,940 --> 00:50:29,900
in both

4222
00:50:29,900 --> 00:50:30,420
monolithic

4223
00:50:30,420 --> 00:50:30,800
apps

4224
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:31,300
and

4225
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:31,720
in

4226
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:32,380
microservices

4227
00:50:32,380 --> 00:50:32,760
and so

4228
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:33,060
if you

4229
00:50:33,060 --> 00:50:33,480
employ

4230
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:33,820
this

4231
00:50:33,820 --> 00:50:34,440
like

4232
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:34,800
throughout

4233
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:35,100
your

4234
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:35,680
organized

4235
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:35,920
then

4236
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:36,240
any

4237
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:36,540
new

4238
00:50:36,540 --> 00:50:37,160
application

4239
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:37,720
that

4240
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:38,520
comes

4241
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:39,000
across

4242
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:39,620
automatically

4243
00:50:39,620 --> 00:50:40,040
can

4244
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:40,500
discover

4245
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:40,760
these

4246
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:41,040
other

4247
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:41,540
applications

4248
00:50:41,540 --> 00:50:42,380
as well

4249
00:50:42,380 --> 00:50:42,620
as

4250
00:50:42,620 --> 00:50:43,080
monolith

4251
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:43,820
service

4252
00:50:43,820 --> 00:50:44,280
meshes

4253
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:44,720
can

4254
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:45,640
straddle

4255
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:45,980
both

4256
00:50:45,980 --> 00:50:46,400
your

4257
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:47,620
on-prem

4258
00:50:47,620 --> 00:50:48,380
environments

4259
00:50:48,380 --> 00:50:49,160
and

4260
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:49,740
your

4261
00:50:49,740 --> 00:50:50,820
cloud

4262
00:50:50,820 --> 00:50:51,460
environments

4263
00:50:51,460 --> 00:50:52,040
so

4264
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:52,320
they

4265
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:52,900
provide

4266
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:53,480
that

4267
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:54,040
uniform

4268
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:54,560
layer

4269
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:55,380
of

4270
00:50:55,380 --> 00:50:56,940
encapsulation

4271
00:50:56,940 --> 00:50:57,180
so

4272
00:50:57,180 --> 00:50:57,700
access

4273
00:50:57,700 --> 00:50:58,300
they

4274
00:50:58,300 --> 00:50:58,500
can

4275
00:50:58,500 --> 00:50:58,820
also

4276
00:50:58,820 --> 00:50:59,320
provide

4277
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,200
security

4278
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:01,860
security

4279
00:51:01,860 --> 00:51:02,120
can

4280
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:02,260
be

4281
00:51:02,260 --> 00:51:02,460
paid

4282
00:51:02,460 --> 00:51:02,680
into

4283
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:02,820
a

4284
00:51:02,820 --> 00:51:03,100
service

4285
00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:03,380
mesh

4286
00:51:03,380 --> 00:51:03,860
they

4287
00:51:03,860 --> 00:51:04,260
provide

4288
00:51:04,260 --> 00:51:05,000
throttling

4289
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:05,740
of

4290
00:51:05,740 --> 00:51:07,460
traffic

4291
00:51:07,460 --> 00:51:08,940
so

4292
00:51:08,940 --> 00:51:09,300
they

4293
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:10,240
provide

4294
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:11,200
observability

4295
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:11,460
of

4296
00:51:11,460 --> 00:51:12,140
interaction

4297
00:51:12,140 --> 00:51:12,780
across

4298
00:51:12,780 --> 00:51:14,100
various

4299
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:14,860
services

4300
00:51:14,860 --> 00:51:16,040
so

4301
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:16,240
there

4302
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:16,380
are

4303
00:51:16,380 --> 00:51:16,560
all

4304
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:16,720
these

4305
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:17,140
second

4306
00:51:17,140 --> 00:51:17,620
layer

4307
00:51:17,620 --> 00:51:18,600
advantages

4308
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:19,000
that

4309
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:19,500
security

4310
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:19,900
meshes

4311
00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:20,180
can

4312
00:51:20,180 --> 00:51:20,660
provide

4313
00:51:20,660 --> 00:51:21,280
that

4314
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:21,720
allow

4315
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:22,080
that

4316
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:22,360
give

4317
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:22,540
you

4318
00:51:22,540 --> 00:51:23,500
deeper

4319
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:24,040
insight

4320
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:24,360
into

4321
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:24,660
your

4322
00:51:24,660 --> 00:51:25,360
application

4323
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,900
workload

4324
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:28,460
right

4325
00:51:28,460 --> 00:51:29,240
you could

4326
00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:29,820
in fact

4327
00:51:29,820 --> 00:51:30,180
just

4328
00:51:30,180 --> 00:51:30,760
instrument

4329
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:31,420
everything

4330
00:51:31,420 --> 00:51:31,820
with a

4331
00:51:31,820 --> 00:51:32,100
service

4332
00:51:32,100 --> 00:51:32,420
mesh

4333
00:51:32,420 --> 00:51:32,940
and

4334
00:51:32,940 --> 00:51:33,100
then

4335
00:51:33,100 --> 00:51:33,420
use

4336
00:51:33,420 --> 00:51:33,680
those

4337
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:34,200
insights

4338
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:34,460
to

4339
00:51:34,460 --> 00:51:34,980
decompose

4340
00:51:34,980 --> 00:51:35,140
your

4341
00:51:35,140 --> 00:51:35,640
application

4342
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:36,000
as

4343
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:36,520
well

4344
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:37,200
it

4345
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:37,620
basically

4346
00:51:37,620 --> 00:51:38,300
allows

4347
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:38,500
you

4348
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:38,720
to

4349
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:39,100
bake

4350
00:51:39,100 --> 00:51:39,580
in

4351
00:51:39,580 --> 00:51:40,180
a

4352
00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:40,580
set

4353
00:51:40,580 --> 00:51:41,000
of

4354
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:41,620
non

4355
00:51:41,620 --> 00:51:42,800
functional

4356
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:43,660
kind of

4357
00:51:43,660 --> 00:51:44,340
requirements

4358
00:51:44,340 --> 00:51:45,620
and

4359
00:51:45,620 --> 00:51:46,160
reduce

4360
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:46,420
the

4361
00:51:46,420 --> 00:51:46,780
amount

4362
00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:47,060
of

4363
00:51:47,060 --> 00:51:47,640
heavy

4364
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:48,000
lift

4365
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:48,520
that

4366
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:48,760
needs

4367
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:48,900
to

4368
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:49,060
be

4369
00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:49,360
done

4370
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:49,780
by

4371
00:51:49,780 --> 00:51:50,280
the

4372
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:50,800
monolids

4373
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:51,200
or

4374
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:51,680
by

4375
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:51,880
the

4376
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:52,480
on-premise

4377
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:53,000
applications

4378
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:53,420
or by

4379
00:51:53,420 --> 00:51:53,580
the

4380
00:51:53,580 --> 00:51:53,820
cloud

4381
00:51:53,820 --> 00:51:54,320
applications

4382
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:54,620
it

4383
00:51:54,620 --> 00:51:55,080
provides

4384
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:55,360
a way

4385
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:55,660
for you

4386
00:51:55,660 --> 00:51:56,020
to make

4387
00:51:56,020 --> 00:51:56,180
it

4388
00:51:56,180 --> 00:51:56,920
consistent

4389
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:57,520
now

4390
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:57,780
the

4391
00:51:57,780 --> 00:51:58,220
thing

4392
00:51:58,220 --> 00:51:58,480
is

4393
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:58,680
like

4394
00:51:58,680 --> 00:51:58,920
this

4395
00:51:58,920 --> 00:51:59,200
can

4396
00:51:59,200 --> 00:51:59,600
become

4397
00:51:59,600 --> 00:51:59,760
a

4398
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:00,060
service

4399
00:52:00,060 --> 00:52:00,260
mesh

4400
00:52:00,260 --> 00:52:00,460
can

4401
00:52:00,460 --> 00:52:00,980
become

4402
00:52:00,980 --> 00:52:01,540
kind

4403
00:52:01,540 --> 00:52:01,900
of

4404
00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:03,060
you

4405
00:52:03,060 --> 00:52:03,200
have

4406
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:03,260
to

4407
00:52:03,260 --> 00:52:03,380
be

4408
00:52:03,380 --> 00:52:03,640
careful

4409
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:03,860
with

4410
00:52:03,860 --> 00:52:04,160
service

4411
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:04,540
meshes

4412
00:52:04,540 --> 00:52:04,780
because

4413
00:52:04,780 --> 00:52:04,940
you

4414
00:52:04,940 --> 00:52:05,120
can

4415
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:05,360
get

4416
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:05,680
married

4417
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:05,880
to

4418
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:06,080
them

4419
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:06,320
they

4420
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:06,460
could

4421
00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:06,720
become

4422
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:06,940
their

4423
00:52:06,940 --> 00:52:07,220
own

4424
00:52:07,220 --> 00:52:07,460
kind

4425
00:52:07,460 --> 00:52:07,560
of

4426
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:07,740
web

4427
00:52:07,740 --> 00:52:08,180
proprietary

4428
00:52:14,340 --> 00:52:14,920
more

4429
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:15,060
you

4430
00:52:15,060 --> 00:52:15,260
get

4431
00:52:15,260 --> 00:52:15,640
married

4432
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:15,840
to

4433
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:15,980
a

4434
00:52:15,980 --> 00:52:16,320
particular

4435
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:16,660
service

4436
00:52:16,660 --> 00:52:17,460
so

4437
00:52:17,460 --> 00:52:18,100
understand

4438
00:52:18,100 --> 00:52:18,300
the

4439
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:18,660
trade-offs

4440
00:52:18,660 --> 00:52:18,860
that

4441
00:52:18,860 --> 00:52:18,980
you

4442
00:52:18,980 --> 00:52:19,080
are

4443
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:19,400
making

4444
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:19,900
I

4445
00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:20,180
like

4446
00:52:20,180 --> 00:52:20,360
to

4447
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:20,600
use

4448
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:20,840
them

4449
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:21,220
for

4450
00:52:21,220 --> 00:52:21,960
like

4451
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:22,440
stuff

4452
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:22,840
where

4453
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:23,480
you

4454
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:23,760
can

4455
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:24,020
take

4456
00:52:24,020 --> 00:52:24,400
advantage

4457
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:24,640
of

4458
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:24,780
it

4459
00:52:24,780 --> 00:52:25,000
but

4460
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:25,220
you

4461
00:52:25,220 --> 00:52:25,500
cannot

4462
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:25,740
be

4463
00:52:25,740 --> 00:52:25,940
just

4464
00:52:25,940 --> 00:52:26,380
completely

4465
00:52:26,380 --> 00:52:26,920
dependent

4466
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:27,380
on

4467
00:52:27,380 --> 00:52:27,580
it

4468
00:52:27,580 --> 00:52:28,540
so

4469
00:52:28,540 --> 00:52:28,960
that's

4470
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:29,140
kind

4471
00:52:29,140 --> 00:52:29,560
of

4472
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:29,900
right

4473
00:52:29,900 --> 00:52:31,000
but

4474
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:31,480
beware

4475
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:31,860
of

4476
00:52:31,860 --> 00:52:32,400
but

4477
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:32,760
buyer

4478
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:33,180
beware

4479
00:52:33,180 --> 00:52:33,440
see

4480
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:33,860
understand

4481
00:52:33,860 --> 00:52:34,580
what

4482
00:52:34,580 --> 00:52:34,700
you

4483
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:34,800
are

4484
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:35,040
getting

4485
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:35,280
into

4486
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:35,520
when

4487
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:35,660
you

4488
00:52:35,660 --> 00:52:35,840
use

4489
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:36,060
something

4490
00:52:36,060 --> 00:52:36,280
like

4491
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:36,660
Istio

4492
00:52:36,660 --> 00:52:36,840
or

4493
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:37,200
console

4494
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:37,780
right

4495
00:52:37,780 --> 00:52:38,240
otherwise

4496
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:38,540
you

4497
00:52:38,540 --> 00:52:38,760
just

4498
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:39,200
replace

4499
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:39,380
your

4500
00:52:39,380 --> 00:52:39,940
ESB

4501
00:52:39,940 --> 00:52:40,200
with

4502
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:40,360
an

4503
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:41,360
ESM

4504
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:41,620
just

4505
00:52:41,620 --> 00:52:41,840
an

4506
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:42,160
enterprise

4507
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:42,620
service

4508
00:52:42,620 --> 00:52:42,940
mesh

4509
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:45,080
and

4510
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:45,520
everybody

4511
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:45,920
has

4512
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:46,400
them

4513
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:47,040
there's

4514
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:47,580
Tanju

4515
00:52:47,580 --> 00:52:48,040
service

4516
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:48,340
mesh

4517
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:48,880
there's

4518
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:49,320
Istio

4519
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:49,960
service

4520
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:50,260
meshes

4521
00:52:50,260 --> 00:52:50,460
have

4522
00:52:50,460 --> 00:52:50,840
service

4523
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:51,180
meshes

4524
00:52:51,180 --> 00:52:51,460
like

4525
00:52:51,460 --> 00:52:51,840
blue

4526
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:52,500
right

4527
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:52,760
like

4528
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:52,960
it's

4529
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:55,400
yeah

4530
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:55,580
and

4531
00:52:55,580 --> 00:52:55,700
I

4532
00:52:55,700 --> 00:52:55,820
think

4533
00:52:55,820 --> 00:52:56,220
the

4534
00:52:56,220 --> 00:52:56,400
point

4535
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:56,560
you

4536
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:56,760
raised

4537
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:56,920
I

4538
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:57,020
mean

4539
00:52:57,020 --> 00:52:57,220
that's

4540
00:52:57,220 --> 00:52:57,420
a

4541
00:52:57,420 --> 00:52:58,860
that's

4542
00:52:58,860 --> 00:52:58,960
a

4543
00:52:58,960 --> 00:52:59,080
good

4544
00:52:59,080 --> 00:52:59,260
way

4545
00:52:59,260 --> 00:52:59,420
of

4546
00:52:59,420 --> 00:52:59,640
risk

4547
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:00,180
managing

4548
00:53:00,180 --> 00:53:01,260
accidentally

4549
00:53:01,260 --> 00:53:01,660
getting

4550
00:53:01,660 --> 00:53:02,160
you know

4551
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:02,520
to use

4552
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:03,020
my joke

4553
00:53:03,020 --> 00:53:03,780
an ESM

4554
00:53:03,780 --> 00:53:04,160
is to

4555
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:04,460
think

4556
00:53:04,460 --> 00:53:05,840
how am

4557
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:06,000
I

4558
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:06,440
using

4559
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:07,180
this

4560
00:53:07,180 --> 00:53:07,600
service

4561
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:08,000
mesh

4562
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:08,760
for

4563
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:09,840
functionality

4564
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:10,660
versus

4565
00:53:10,660 --> 00:53:11,280
like

4566
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,140
platformy

4567
00:53:13,140 --> 00:53:13,580
stuff

4568
00:53:13,580 --> 00:53:14,180
or

4569
00:53:14,180 --> 00:53:14,560
I

4570
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:14,680
don't

4571
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:15,000
know

4572
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:15,140
what

4573
00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:15,260
the

4574
00:53:15,260 --> 00:53:15,460
second

4575
00:53:15,460 --> 00:53:15,680
one

4576
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:15,820
is

4577
00:53:15,820 --> 00:53:15,980
so

4578
00:53:15,980 --> 00:53:16,160
much

4579
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:16,400
but

4580
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:16,780
you

4581
00:53:16,780 --> 00:53:16,880
know

4582
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:17,040
like

4583
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:17,480
eventually

4584
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:17,780
you

4585
00:53:17,780 --> 00:53:17,940
want

4586
00:53:17,940 --> 00:53:18,020
to

4587
00:53:18,020 --> 00:53:18,140
get

4588
00:53:18,140 --> 00:53:18,300
to

4589
00:53:18,300 --> 00:53:18,540
that

4590
00:53:18,540 --> 00:53:18,720
but

4591
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:18,880
as

4592
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:19,020
you're

4593
00:53:19,020 --> 00:53:19,180
sort

4594
00:53:19,180 --> 00:53:19,300
of

4595
00:53:19,300 --> 00:53:19,680
sorting

4596
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:19,920
out

4597
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:20,120
how

4598
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:20,240
to

4599
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:20,540
use

4600
00:53:20,540 --> 00:53:20,780
it

4601
00:53:20,780 --> 00:53:21,540
kind

4602
00:53:21,540 --> 00:53:21,760
of

4603
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:22,140
like

4604
00:53:22,140 --> 00:53:23,300
having

4605
00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:24,460
a

4606
00:53:24,460 --> 00:53:24,840
critical

4607
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:25,720
operational

4608
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:26,760
what

4609
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:26,900
would

4610
00:53:26,900 --> 00:53:27,020
you

4611
00:53:27,020 --> 00:53:27,240
call

4612
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:27,420
it

4613
00:53:27,420 --> 00:53:27,900
not

4614
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:28,400
priority

4615
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:28,940
dependency

4616
00:53:28,940 --> 00:53:29,440
on

4617
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:29,600
it

4618
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:30,220
like

4619
00:53:30,220 --> 00:53:30,380
it's

4620
00:53:30,380 --> 00:53:30,600
probably

4621
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:30,820
good

4622
00:53:30,820 --> 00:53:30,980
to

4623
00:53:30,980 --> 00:53:31,140
like

4624
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:31,460
learn

4625
00:53:31,460 --> 00:53:31,760
how

4626
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:31,960
it

4627
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:32,440
fits

4628
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:32,700
in

4629
00:53:32,700 --> 00:53:32,820
and

4630
00:53:32,820 --> 00:53:33,100
works

4631
00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:33,340
out

4632
00:53:33,340 --> 00:53:33,580
before

4633
00:53:33,580 --> 00:53:33,780
you

4634
00:53:33,780 --> 00:53:34,060
locked

4635
00:53:34,060 --> 00:53:34,420
yourself

4636
00:53:34,420 --> 00:53:34,700
into

4637
00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:35,000
that

4638
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:35,580
very

4639
00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:35,880
early

4640
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:36,220
on

4641
00:53:36,220 --> 00:53:36,500
with

4642
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:36,620
your

4643
00:53:36,620 --> 00:53:37,140
applications

4644
00:53:37,140 --> 00:53:38,240
or

4645
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:38,520
not

4646
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:38,900
I

4647
00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:39,000
don't

4648
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:39,240
know

4649
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:39,700
yeah

4650
00:53:39,700 --> 00:53:40,700
make

4651
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:40,940
a

4652
00:53:40,940 --> 00:53:41,900
think

4653
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:42,160
through

4654
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:42,360
the

4655
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:42,900
trade-offs

4656
00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:43,180
and

4657
00:53:43,180 --> 00:53:43,480
make

4658
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:43,620
an

4659
00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:44,060
explicit

4660
00:53:44,060 --> 00:53:44,580
decision

4661
00:53:44,580 --> 00:53:45,080
early

4662
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:45,740
with

4663
00:53:45,740 --> 00:53:46,120
respect

4664
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:46,380
to

4665
00:53:46,380 --> 00:53:46,640
what

4666
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:47,080
trade-off

4667
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:47,300
you're

4668
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:47,600
making

4669
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:50,460
then

4670
00:53:50,460 --> 00:53:50,600
you

4671
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:50,780
don't

4672
00:53:50,780 --> 00:53:50,940
have

4673
00:53:50,940 --> 00:53:51,080
to

4674
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:51,300
put

4675
00:53:51,300 --> 00:53:51,580
some

4676
00:53:51,580 --> 00:53:51,720
of

4677
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:51,840
that

4678
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:52,480
observability

4679
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:52,700
in

4680
00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:52,840
your

4681
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:53,320
application

4682
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:53,760
that's

4683
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:53,920
okay

4684
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:54,120
you're

4685
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:54,540
delegating

4686
00:53:54,540 --> 00:53:54,700
it

4687
00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:54,800
to

4688
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:54,960
the

4689
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:55,240
mesh

4690
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:55,880
but

4691
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:56,000
you

4692
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:56,160
made

4693
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:56,280
a

4694
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:56,620
trade-off

4695
00:53:56,620 --> 00:53:56,860
there

4696
00:53:56,860 --> 00:53:57,140
right

4697
00:53:57,140 --> 00:53:57,420
so

4698
00:53:57,420 --> 00:53:57,940
be

4699
00:53:57,940 --> 00:53:58,160
very

4700
00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:58,700
cognizant

4701
00:53:58,700 --> 00:53:58,960
about

4702
00:53:58,960 --> 00:53:59,160
the

4703
00:53:59,160 --> 00:53:59,540
trade-offs

4704
00:53:59,540 --> 00:53:59,680
that

4705
00:53:59,680 --> 00:53:59,860
you're

4706
00:53:59,860 --> 00:54:00,160
making

4707
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:00,560
when you

4708
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:00,780
get

4709
00:54:00,780 --> 00:54:01,200
when you

4710
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:01,800
marry

4711
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:02,220
yourself

4712
00:54:02,220 --> 00:54:02,380
to

4713
00:54:02,380 --> 00:54:02,460
a

4714
00:54:02,460 --> 00:54:02,740
service

4715
00:54:02,740 --> 00:54:02,940
mesh

4716
00:54:02,940 --> 00:54:03,100
they

4717
00:54:03,100 --> 00:54:03,220
are

4718
00:54:03,220 --> 00:54:03,440
very

4719
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:03,760
helpful

4720
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:04,360
and

4721
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:04,500
they

4722
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:04,680
make

4723
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:04,800
your

4724
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:05,000
life

4725
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:05,240
easy

4726
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:05,500
because

4727
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:06,340
peanut butter

4728
00:54:06,340 --> 00:54:06,800
spread

4729
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,040
all these

4730
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:08,680
convenient

4731
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:09,660
non-functional

4732
00:54:09,660 --> 00:54:10,060
services

4733
00:54:10,060 --> 00:54:10,440
on your

4734
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:10,800
apps

4735
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:11,140
so

4736
00:54:11,140 --> 00:54:16,600
we'll

4737
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:17,520
schedule

4738
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:17,720
you

4739
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:17,840
to

4740
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:17,980
be

4741
00:54:17,980 --> 00:54:18,280
on

4742
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:18,880
and

4743
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:19,060
we

4744
00:54:19,060 --> 00:54:19,360
can

4745
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:19,680
follow

4746
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:19,880
you

4747
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:19,980
know

4748
00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:20,240
the

4749
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:21,220
I think

4750
00:54:21,220 --> 00:54:21,540
one of

4751
00:54:21,540 --> 00:54:22,060
Hemingway's

4752
00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:22,580
best tips

4753
00:54:22,580 --> 00:54:23,060
of writing

4754
00:54:23,060 --> 00:54:23,480
is you

4755
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:23,820
always

4756
00:54:23,820 --> 00:54:24,440
stop

4757
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:24,860
right in

4758
00:54:24,860 --> 00:54:24,980
the

4759
00:54:24,980 --> 00:54:25,180
middle

4760
00:54:25,180 --> 00:54:25,620
of

4761
00:54:25,620 --> 00:54:25,820
whatever

4762
00:54:25,820 --> 00:54:26,020
you're

4763
00:54:26,020 --> 00:54:26,180
doing

4764
00:54:26,180 --> 00:54:26,360
that

4765
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:26,560
day

4766
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:26,740
so

4767
00:54:26,740 --> 00:54:26,880
the

4768
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:27,080
next

4769
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:27,260
day

4770
00:54:27,260 --> 00:54:27,380
you

4771
00:54:27,380 --> 00:54:27,480
know

4772
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:27,940
exactly

4773
00:54:27,940 --> 00:54:28,140
where

4774
00:54:28,140 --> 00:54:28,280
to

4775
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:28,440
pick

4776
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:28,640
up

4777
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:28,840
now

4778
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:29,480
you've

4779
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:29,640
already

4780
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:29,880
written

4781
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:30,120
down

4782
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:30,280
the

4783
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:30,480
header

4784
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:30,700
for

4785
00:54:30,700 --> 00:54:31,260
success

4786
00:54:31,260 --> 00:54:32,200
so

4787
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:32,760
we've

4788
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:32,920
got

4789
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:33,160
we're

4790
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:33,360
stopped

4791
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:33,620
right in

4792
00:54:33,620 --> 00:54:33,700
the

4793
00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:33,840
middle

4794
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:33,980
and

4795
00:54:33,980 --> 00:54:34,260
we'll

4796
00:54:34,260 --> 00:54:34,660
get

4797
00:54:34,660 --> 00:54:34,780
you

4798
00:54:34,780 --> 00:54:34,980
back

4799
00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:35,300
on

4800
00:54:35,300 --> 00:54:35,880
I

4801
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:35,980
don't

4802
00:54:35,980 --> 00:54:36,100
know

4803
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:36,220
who

4804
00:54:36,220 --> 00:54:36,420
we

4805
00:54:36,420 --> 00:54:36,700
is

4806
00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:37,820
me

4807
00:54:37,820 --> 00:54:38,660
and

4808
00:54:38,660 --> 00:54:39,560
you

4809
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:39,760
know

4810
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:40,400
we'll

4811
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:41,080
continue

4812
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:41,440
down

4813
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:41,620
that

4814
00:54:41,620 --> 00:54:41,740
and

4815
00:54:41,740 --> 00:54:41,840
I

4816
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:42,040
know

4817
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:42,240
you

4818
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:42,360
know

4819
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:42,940
there's

4820
00:54:42,940 --> 00:54:43,220
a lot

4821
00:54:43,220 --> 00:54:43,560
you wrote

4822
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:43,720
down

4823
00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:43,980
some of

4824
00:54:43,980 --> 00:54:44,120
these

4825
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:44,320
things

4826
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:44,460
but

4827
00:54:44,460 --> 00:54:44,620
there's

4828
00:54:44,620 --> 00:54:44,860
a lot

4829
00:54:44,860 --> 00:54:45,180
more

4830
00:54:45,180 --> 00:54:45,820
as you

4831
00:54:45,820 --> 00:54:46,340
go down

4832
00:54:46,340 --> 00:54:46,880
those

4833
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,280
fallen

4834
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:48,580
over

4835
00:54:48,580 --> 00:54:48,880
swim

4836
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:49,260
lanes

4837
00:54:49,260 --> 00:54:49,780
the

4838
00:54:49,780 --> 00:54:50,260
horizontal

4839
00:54:50,260 --> 00:54:50,640
swim

4840
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:50,940
lanes

4841
00:54:50,940 --> 00:54:51,700
there's

4842
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:52,020
more

4843
00:54:52,020 --> 00:54:52,640
types

4844
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:52,800
of

4845
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:53,280
analysis

4846
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:53,660
and

4847
00:54:53,660 --> 00:54:53,900
things

4848
00:54:53,900 --> 00:54:54,040
that

4849
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:54,160
you

4850
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:54,360
go

4851
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:54,720
through

4852
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:55,240
and

4853
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:56,000
snaps

4854
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:56,420
and

4855
00:54:56,420 --> 00:54:56,840
borises

4856
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:57,440
and

4857
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:57,680
things

4858
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:57,920
like

4859
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:58,100
that

4860
00:54:58,100 --> 00:54:58,260
or

4861
00:54:58,260 --> 00:54:58,320
is

4862
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:58,420
that

4863
00:54:58,420 --> 00:54:58,520
a

4864
00:54:58,520 --> 00:54:58,720
bore

4865
00:54:58,720 --> 00:54:58,980
I

4866
00:54:58,980 --> 00:54:59,280
I

4867
00:54:59,280 --> 00:54:59,480
always

4868
00:54:59,480 --> 00:54:59,800
forget

4869
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:00,520
but

4870
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:01,240
we've

4871
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:01,440
all

4872
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:01,640
sorts

4873
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:01,780
of

4874
00:55:01,780 --> 00:55:01,960
fun

4875
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:02,180
stuff

4876
00:55:02,180 --> 00:55:02,340
to

4877
00:55:02,340 --> 00:55:02,480
go

4878
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:02,680
through

4879
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:02,940
and

4880
00:55:02,940 --> 00:55:03,380
in

4881
00:55:03,380 --> 00:55:03,500
the

4882
00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:03,900
meantime

4883
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:05,460
I

4884
00:55:05,460 --> 00:55:05,580
don't

4885
00:55:05,580 --> 00:55:05,820
know

4886
00:55:05,820 --> 00:55:06,660
I'll

4887
00:55:06,660 --> 00:55:06,860
put

4888
00:55:06,860 --> 00:55:06,980
in

4889
00:55:06,980 --> 00:55:07,100
the

4890
00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:07,280
show

4891
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:07,620
notes

4892
00:55:07,620 --> 00:55:08,360
I'm

4893
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:08,420
going

4894
00:55:08,420 --> 00:55:08,480
to

4895
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:08,620
put

4896
00:55:08,620 --> 00:55:08,840
this

4897
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:09,100
as

4898
00:55:09,100 --> 00:55:09,580
a

4899
00:55:09,580 --> 00:55:10,120
podcast

4900
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:10,740
episode

4901
00:55:10,740 --> 00:55:11,040
I

4902
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:11,200
might

4903
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:11,340
have

4904
00:55:11,340 --> 00:55:11,460
to

4905
00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:11,680
edit

4906
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:11,900
it

4907
00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:12,120
since

4908
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:12,300
it's

4909
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:12,500
highly

4910
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:12,840
visual

4911
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:13,000
I'll

4912
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:13,140
have to

4913
00:55:13,140 --> 00:55:13,340
listen

4914
00:55:13,340 --> 00:55:13,640
to it

4915
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:13,860
and see

4916
00:55:13,860 --> 00:55:14,020
how

4917
00:55:14,020 --> 00:55:14,120
it

4918
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:14,340
works

4919
00:55:14,340 --> 00:55:14,560
but

4920
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:15,140
I'll

4921
00:55:15,140 --> 00:55:15,260
have

4922
00:55:15,260 --> 00:55:15,360
to

4923
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:15,480
put

4924
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:15,800
a link

4925
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:16,100
to

4926
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:16,420
your

4927
00:55:16,420 --> 00:55:17,080
info

4928
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:17,640
article

4929
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:18,280
which

4930
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:18,900
goes

4931
00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:19,100
over

4932
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:19,320
a lot

4933
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:19,400
of

4934
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:19,640
stuff

4935
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:19,920
as well

4936
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:20,140
but

4937
00:55:20,140 --> 00:55:20,760
what's

4938
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:21,420
your

4939
00:55:21,420 --> 00:55:21,760
handle

4940
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:33,580
perfect

4941
00:55:33,580 --> 00:55:34,280
all

4942
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:34,480
right

4943
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:34,820
well

4944
00:55:34,820 --> 00:55:35,560
thanks

4945
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:35,680
for

4946
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:35,900
taking

4947
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:36,060
the

4948
00:55:36,060 --> 00:55:36,320
time

4949
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:36,500
to

4950
00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:36,640
go

4951
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:36,800
over

4952
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:37,000
this

4953
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:37,200
it was

4954
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:37,520
fun

4955
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:38,140
and

4956
00:55:38,140 --> 00:55:38,640
we'll

4957
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:38,760
have

4958
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:38,860
to

4959
00:55:38,860 --> 00:55:38,980
do

4960
00:55:38,980 --> 00:55:39,100
it

4961
00:55:39,100 --> 00:55:39,400
again

4962
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:40,740
thank

4963
00:55:40,740 --> 00:55:40,860
you

4964
00:55:40,860 --> 00:55:41,380
this

4965
00:55:41,380 --> 00:55:41,520
is

4966
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:41,760
good

4967
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:42,320
all

4968
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:42,480
right

4969
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:42,960
everyone

4970
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:43,460
bye

4971
00:55:43,460 --> 00:55:43,840
bye

4972
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:03,240
bye

4973
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:33,240
bye