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All right, folks, well, welcome back for another episode of Tanzu Talk. I'm going to hold with

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that pronunciation. With me this week is sort of a lot of familiar faces, voices. We've got

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Richard. Normally, like Richard would be doing this one with Coté, but since Coté has more

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important things to do right now with the newborn, either I'm doing my best Coté impression

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or Richard's doing his best Dormain co-host impression. One of those. Feel free to say

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something. Yeah, no, I've got a lot of facts stored up about medieval farming, so I can't

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wait to bust those out to do my best Dormain. Crop rotation. Go. Yeah, the beans look good

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this year. They're coming in strong. Oh, that's important. And then Jared, another familiar

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face, voice. I shouldn't say face, like we're not actually showing our faces. The face is

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very familiar as well. So, you know, I mean, I get the full experience of the visual on the

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podcast, but it's a very familiar face. Yeah. If anyone was right now, they'd be like deep

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in each of our homes, which is an extra scary thing. And our last guest today, someone who's

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probably going to make a few repeat appearances, has the most stark background, which does beg the

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question, padded cell? Soundproof? Woodshopping area? Like... Is this your one call you're allowed to

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have? Like, yeah, give us some details. This is the only quiet space in my home now, which is a

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far corner of my basement, where hopefully my kids won't find me. Okay. Well, that's, you know,

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just, is there water or chocolate or something that's within arm's reach so that we know that

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you're safe? Like you can blink twice to let us know. I'm going to make it through this podcast with

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you, I promise. Okay. Yeah. Well, that folks, that is Scott Buchanan. I'm like, you know, then there's

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the cheers, but we don't actually have like the laugh track or the cheer track. I could try to add that

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on. Whichever one, yeah. Edit in later. Yeah. So, Scott, you want to introduce yourself a little bit

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more for the Tanzu Talk crowd? Sure. I am Senior Director of Product Marketing at VMware in the same

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Modern Apps business unit as the rest of the crew today. I've been at VMware for 18 months. I arrived

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by the acquisition of a company called Heptio that was in the Kubernetes space. It's been a joyous ride.

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Now I'm joined by Richard and Jared and Dormain. What a lucky fella I am.

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Yeah. It's, you know, like, uh, we'll get the, the matching jackets and stuff. The satin ones,

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like the team, team style. Like the pink ladies. Those are my favorite. Yes. Well, I mean,

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we don't have to do pink. It's not a really flattering color on me personally, but maybe you all can wear it

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better. So, um, well, one of the reasons I wanted to get this particular crew together is we kind of

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had a bunch of announcements, uh, recently. So some good milestones following on the, the big

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Tanzu launch. If you were tuning in, uh, Jared was a guest on an episode with Richard and Coté going

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through that round of announcements, but, you know, here we are a month later and it's, uh, coming in

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fast and furious. So I thought it would be good to just do a quick rundown, uh, so you can get the,

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the spoken word version. Uh, if you, uh, if you, whether or not you read the blog post that went

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out on, on Tuesday, April 14th. So I don't know, do we, I mean, I just said spoken word. So that's

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a trigger for me. I don't know about you guys, but, um, um, does, does anyone want to jam? Are we

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going to rhyme? Uh, I already quizzed Scott on miambic pentameter once before. I think I might regret

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that makes me think of going to poetry slams at the Chicago. Are we going to like hiss and snap

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in order to provide feedback to one another? I would love some snaps. I think like if we can

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earn snaps, that's a good, that's a good goal. Um, so, and then I think we need to also sprinkle in

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there. I really liked some of the, the like working from home tips. I feel like we're all a little bit

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further in on our journey of working from home, living at home, having everything, uh, within our,

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our four walls, or I guess there's slightly more than four walls that make up my house. Cause it's

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not like a perfect rectangular square or, uh, rhombus that would also be for, um, if anyone lives in a

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rhombus shaped house, I really want to know, but, um, yeah, so like we can also pause at some point

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or if we each want to take one product and then take a tip, uh, I don't know. Does anyone want to go

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first or I will, that's a threat. Kick us off to remain, which product did you want to cover first?

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Okay. You know, I'm going to go by an old standby, which is Tansu application service 2.9. And I'm

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looking at Jared for the, the, the related one to cover that. So Tansu application service 2.9, um,

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which adds, uh, I like the kind of, um, extra support for chatty applications, just because I'm kind of

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chatty myself. So applications that are, you know, spewing off a lot of logs, so better ways to handle

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that. And, uh, some additional features to support more .NET workloads. So the way, when I was kind of

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looking through, uh, mostly Jared's summary of, of the, the release, it struck me as, okay, really we're

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able to just add even more types of workloads and applications to this already well proven platform.

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Um, which is great. And so a lot of folks are enjoying benefits from running Tansu application

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service, but they've run into corner cases. Oh, I can't quite do this one, or I need a particular

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feature. And it seems like, you know, 2.9 starts to just bust down more and more of those. So the,

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the list keeps growing of the types of applications you can run on it. Um, so that's kind of my

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short version. I don't know. What did I, what did I miss?

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Yeah. I think, uh, you know, if you're looking to break down walls and what you can get on a

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platform, maybe you're in this, you know, kind of octagon of enterprise applications and you're

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kind of stuck in this octagon, you break down the walls to get your apps on a platform. Yeah. I mean,

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I think this, uh, is that what you kind of described earlier, you know, Dorme, we were talking about

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this. There's kind of a mature theme and an emerging theme to some of the stuff that's being talked

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about. And, uh, certainly with TAS 2.9, you're talking about the mature end of the spectrum and

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their companies, you know, at a pretty crazy scale with this thing, you know, running hundreds of

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applications, you know, tens of thousands of containers, just doing some pretty remarkable

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things. And once you kind of get past a lot of those core scenarios and you're in really

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like year three, year four of your transformation, you start to uncover those corner cases, as you

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said. So there's things that have kind of your quirky architecture patterns that you still want

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to bring to the platform to get some of those efficiencies. Like the chatty thing that you

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mentioned is a good example. There's also like a custom timeout interval. You know, if you've got

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some applications that don't quite have a modern architecture, you need to let them have a little

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more time to finish up whatever process they're running before you can spin down the container

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they're running on. And so a lot of customers may be running at crazy scale, but there's, you know,

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a whole class of workloads that are really important that can't quite fit into the platform based on that

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type of constraint. And so now there's a way you can have this, you know, custom timeout interval.

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And so, um, in itself is, you know, an interesting feature, um, maybe not going to grab, uh, grab

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headlines in any, you know, tech press, but then kind of taken collectively, you look at, you know,

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maybe 10, 12 interesting features that we have a release. A lot of them kind of fall into that

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category. And so now you just have, you know, more and more ways to standardize more and more things

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on the platform and get more and more efficiencies. The .NET stuff is as good as you say, like the

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streaming logs directly to the console. You know, uh, when you can do that, it's indirect, uh,

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adherence to one of the 12 factor applications, you know, so instead of having to go through some

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manual processes that take a few days, you can now do that, you know, instantly. And so

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there's a lot of things that, you know, just make, I think a lot of customers, uh, breathe a sigh of

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relief about some of the things that we've built into the platform, just kind of continuing to allow

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them to operate at scale. And I think probably the last few releases have had the same type of,

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type of feel to it. So, um, there is a new name to the platform of course, uh, but we are seeing that

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same regular cadence of enhancements, um, just break down more and more of those walls.

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Yeah, it's true. It's probably worth, uh, reiterating. This is the artist formerly known as,

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uh, pivotal application service, or if you've been around for a while, PCF, pivotal cloud foundry.

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Um, so, uh, yeah, lots of names, just, just like the, the aunt that keeps getting remarried or

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something, um, that might be a weird comparison to make. Uh, we'll see if that's next.

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There's a story to hear from you on that one. The other two things that I saw in there,

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Jared, that said to me were, uh, some of the apps manager improvements, metrics and apps manager,

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sidecar processes are visible. Revisions were already visible. App revisions are actually enabled

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by default for things like rollback. Actually, Scott, I wanted to ask you, I don't know with apps manager

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in any of the sort of UIs on these server side products. Are UIs for, I don't know, first time

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users, or do you think power users care about the user interface? Like, is that something that just

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shows really well, these sort of dashboard experiences and things like that? Or do real, real operators

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and real devs use scripting and CLIs only? Um, I think that you're better suited to answer that

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question, Richard. So, uh, um, I'm more interested in what you think about that. You're a power user.

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Yeah. I mean, I'm a pretend power user now, so I like user interfaces, that graphical user interface.

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It lets me quick do something versus learn all the plumbing. And I'm just interested, especially as

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we see large customers who, Hey, when you have 10,000 apps, you're not going to go into a dashboard

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and click through, you know, paging through 10,000 apps. You're going to use scripts. You're going to

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use different tendency models. So it's just interesting to me. I like the graphical user interface. I like

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investments that PKS and now TKG does around that, you know, ops manager, apps manager. I think those

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interfaces matter a lot. The more and more I'm curious as to when somebody hits scale, like,

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does anyone use the AWS console at scale? Does anyone use some of those experiences at scale?

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Or is that just a good first run experience to help me learn the platforms? I'd be interested

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to our listeners as well of what they hear and think about that as well.

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Yeah. I mean, the hooks in to be able to automate, uh, certainly are, are definitely the ones that I

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hear from, from some of our larger users that they'll go crazy on any of the APIs we give them.

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Um, so, but I think you're right. I think sometimes just having the clean packaging,

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some, whether it's for a really new user, or if it's, you're really trying to expose a capability to

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folks that they may not have really played around with yet. So it's depends. You can be on the

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learning curve, even if you've been using a product for a while, right? Because the product

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doesn't stand still. So you might not grow the graphical user interface, but that would imply

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you had to use it in the first place to grow out of it. So it seems like it's something that really

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helps people get started before they get to get more experienced. But again, that's probably an

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interesting question for analysts and our users as well. There's another element to the release too,

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with a new app metrics module. I think we've seen some of this with the observability, uh, you know,

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tool from, from Wavefront where the UIs tend to be really useful at scale with some maturity,

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if you can customize the heck out of them and look at how you can, you know, tweak the thresholds,

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tweak the metrics, you know, tweak some of the things that really relate to the systems that

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you're trying to observe and keep tabs on. So I think we've seen that some of the

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the out of the box stuff doesn't quite work as well. It may be useful things in the sales process.

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And all of us as marketers, you know, definitely appreciate some good, uh, flash in the sales

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process, but then being really useful at scale, that utility sometimes comes down to, you know,

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how much it can reflect what you as the operator or developer care about.

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Well, let's like, so what's the next thing there's a, to your point, there was a,

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another dimension to the app service in this particular release. So we recently hit a milestone.

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Uh, for the tons of application service for Kubernetes that on Kubernetes or for Kubernetes.

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Yeah. Big battle on, on prepositions there. I think, uh, for Kubernetes is, is where we,

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where we landed on it. So, uh, so yeah, so Richard, I had a, uh, nice, uh, breakdown blog.

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Uh, there'll be a, another flavor that we put out, you know, before too long here. Um, I think for,

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for me, this was a really exciting, you know, evolution where, uh, if we just talked about the,

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the current 2.9 product being the, you know, mature version, the for Kubernetes version is the

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emerging, you know, flavor of that. And if you think about what you need in an application platform,

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uh, you know, really what you need in 2020 is the same as what you needed in 2013, when maybe

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Cloud Foundry first launched, you need some way to manage infrastructure, life cycle, you need

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containers, you need metrics, you need some kind of your runtime, you know, it's still a software that

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needs the same components to run. And clearly if you're, you're looking at rebuilding something

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from scratch in the year 2020, you're going to use a different set of ingredients than maybe we did,

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you know, in the, in the 2012, you know, days, just because the technology has come a long way

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since then to, uh, have a bit of an understatement there. So, um, if you think about how you would

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rebuild an application platform for this, you know, Kubernetes moment, this CNCF, you know, kind of

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age that we're in, um, you can probably guess what components that, uh, would be a part of that. And,

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um, that's essentially what's been, you know, remastered into this new flavor. Uh, it's now a

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beta publicly accessible. Just go to, uh, network.pivotal.io, um, create an account,

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download the bits and you're off the races. And then, uh, Richard can tell you how to best

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spend the first 20 minutes with that product. The thing that jumped out at me on that one was

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that, you know, it, the, the install and footprint, um, seem to be

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a lot faster and smaller, which either way it's cool. And it opens up some, some new, uh, opportunities

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for where to run that and how to run it. And so that, that sort of struck me as that's,

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that's cool. And something that you get over and above, like all the things that you may already

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have come to love and trust about the CF push experience. And, you know, that just the overall

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Taz experience, it's like, other than, okay, you're, you're changing sort of the underlying, uh,

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orchestration. Like what else do I get from this? And it's like, oh, that's, that's worth it. You

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know, like that's something that's smaller footprints, faster startup time. I'll, I'll take that.

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Yeah. Yeah. Like our friends at red monk say the best packaging wins something like that.

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Yeah. And even the, our old colleague, Andrew Clay Schaefer would talk about the meantime to

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dopamine as well. And if I have to wait three hours to try your thing, cause things get spun up again,

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maybe it's going to be worth it. Plenty of things take three hours to bake. But for the most part,

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I liked it in four minutes. I can have this running as a full featured version on my desktop.

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That's just a different ball game for us. So again, for those folks who aren't as familiar

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with this, I mean, this is a fully containerized, not any VMs to be seen. Obviously there's VMs under

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something, it's turtles, whatever, all the way down. But from a user perspective, this is just a

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containerized control plane. This is containerized components. It's not just the existing components

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running at Kubernetes. You've replaced things like the go router with Istio. You've replaced some of the

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logging infrastructure with CNCF logging products. You've gotten build packs, cloud native build packs,

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not cloud foundry build packs baked in. So it's a really cool combination of kind of the most

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bleeding edge cloud native tech, but probably the safest packaging because at least you know and trust

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that VMware may Pivotal do a good job combining open source projects. So it's kind of a neat way that

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maybe, I don't know, it all of a sudden moves the ball forward significantly because now you've taken

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all of the best plumbing and put on the dev experience we've always liked, which is that CF push,

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CF scale CF logs experience. Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing as folks

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take that out for some test drives and kick the tires on it. Hey, those were two analogies that were

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actually consistent, I might add. Yeah. Car related. But as that happens, I'm looking forward to getting

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feedback from users out there. Yeah. I will point out real quick too. The other thing we,

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Jared, uh, fought for was making this an open beta. So a traditional pivotal beta, you know,

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and maybe Scott, you could say the same with VMware is often like, Hey, especially in early stages,

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we're going to gate this. We're going to collect feedback. We're going to go to some target customers.

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And that's often awesome. But at the same time, this is, this is kind of a new interesting thing.

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I think the more people that kick the tires, the better for us to get good feedback, to see new use

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cases, all of those new tire kickers who maybe wouldn't have looked at the classic cloud foundry

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environment. So Jared, I don't know if you want to talk about that, but it's nice. There's pretty

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much no strings attached here. You can get a free Tanzu network account and take it for a spin and never

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hear from us again. Yeah, that's right. And, uh, if, if we all have a good dashboard in the sales

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process, we also love a frictionless evaluation, you know, kind of your process. And so this is

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something that, yeah, within minutes you have ready to go in your laptop, if you want to, or anywhere

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you have a case, runtime, your public cloud VMs, managed service, what have you. And so having

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something that individual practitioners can bang on and get a feel for is, you know, a really big

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difference. And I think what we've done in the past, we're not asking for three dozen VMs anymore

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and, you know, a prolonged, you know, POC type of process. So if you're interested in all in

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anything Kubernetes or a CNC app or containers, there's going to be a really important piece of

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tech for you that you get familiar with and you can do so in the way that you probably would expect.

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Yeah. I think one of the things that's important here too, right. Uh, that's a common thread across

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our use of Kubernetes in multiple products in our portfolio is it's about, uh, driving adoption of

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the technology in a way that makes sense for the enterprise? Like, how do we simplify that?

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And, uh, you know, the other key principle here is how do we use Kubernetes to make our foundational

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products better? It's not about, you know, Kubernetes for Kubernetes sake, because it's cool. It's because

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it actually fundamentally drives value for the organization. So that's what I see.

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Yeah. I mean, what have you learned, Scott, since you've kind of got smashed together with,

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with us characters and now map BU in this business unit, like what didn't you know about

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pivotal application service now Tonto application service that you do now and whether, you know,

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good or bad or ugly, what, what is something you felt like you've picked up about the product?

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I think, um, uh, you know, the, the impact on developer experience is something that I

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probably underappreciated. And when I listened to, uh, the end users talk about how this has

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fundamentally changed their organizations, the way that they get code into production,

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you sort of realize that the magnitude of, uh, of the technology. So, I mean,

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these are things that I understood from the outside looking in, but being more familiar now with customer

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stories and, you know, we're becoming increasingly familiar with the importance of getting code into

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production quickly, given the current environment in which we're living and operating, right? Like

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where it can be imperative for an organization to get something into development, uh, from development into

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production very, very quickly. When you have technology like tons of application service,

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uh, you know, suddenly that's a reality. Well, um, before we shift on to build service,

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I realized I totally forgot to slip in our, uh, working from home tips.

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I've used this one before, but I don't think on, on Tonsu talk, it's, it's the taking my one-on-one

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calls as walking calls so that I get some steps in. That's, that's been serving me well.

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So yeah. Keeping on the move. How about you, Jared?

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I think last time, uh, with Richard and Coté, I made a point about coffee. Uh, so I still maintain

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that being a big thing. I told Dormain earlier today that I refrained from drinking, uh, some instant

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coffee that had expired three years ago. So I'm not a complete, complete addict. Took some strength,

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uh, to not go there. Uh, so we switched from beverage, from beverage to food. I'll say snacks

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are important. Uh, those of us that work in a lot of tech offices are used to maybe snacks at the ready.

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So try and replicate the snack game as best you can at home. And hopefully with things like,

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you know, almonds or seaweed or things like that, not a couch potato food, but something that would

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maybe satisfy the craving a little bit without, uh, killing your productivity in the afternoon.

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Yeah. I do a lot of like walnuts and chocolate chips. So I just the, just the chocolate chip,

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just chocolate chips. We're burning through chocolate chips in our house at a pretty alarming rate. And I'm

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pretty sure I'm responsible for most of that. We're not baking chocolate chip cookies all the time.

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It's cause I'm like slipping chocolate chips into like my oatmeal in the morning and with my walnuts.

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Um, but I feel like the walnuts are really healthy and then the chocolate chips just make it a little

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bit more palatable and interesting because eating like handfuls of walnuts. Have you done that? Like you're

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at a certain point, it's like you're eating chalk.

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I'm not really a nut guy. So I can't really empathize with you.

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You know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to have like my, my proteins and everything apparently.

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Yeah. Of all the, of all the kind of bowls of nuts you can have, I don't think walnuts are too

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common on that list. So I think that the walnuts in moderation are a popular, popular stance.

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Okay. Okay. That's a fair point. It's, I'm not living the, that life right now, but I understand where

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you're coming from. All right. So, um, back to, back to our rundown. Uh, there was one more

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part of the portfolio that had an interesting milestone. That's still, it kind of lumps in

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with the app service in that it, it, it's part of the looking at the world from solving from the

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application, uh, centric perspective. Uh, and, and so that's the, the build service hitting a beta.

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So Richard, what can you, what can you tell us about that one?

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Yeah. I mean, it takes the best of what build packs does, which is how do I go from source to a

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container image? And on one hand that that's not a unsolved problem. Like we've been doing that

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with Docker for years. So that's not a hard thing. Now there's trickiness in how do I build up a

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container image? Cause it's, you know, I'm making it out of layers as a basic layer. There's an operating,

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the operating system with a file system and you've got an app server and you've got pieces to that.

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And so where is a developer sourcing that from? You know, there's a lot of choices there. I copy and

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paste from stack overflow. Most people are better than me. So that's good. But is it a consistent

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process within your organization of how you're building these? Because that is still a stack

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within that container image. And if there's a vulnerability or you've chosen something from

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some sort of public registry where there's a vulnerability, that's a lot of exposure to the company. So

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there is something about having a kind of secure software supply chain, something where I can know,

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have some provenance. I understand where everything came from that went into my container image.

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And that's interesting. And Tansu build service does that. Terrific. But the other thing I think

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that's more interesting, frankly, is what happens when you're done the first build? Because there's

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going to be more, right? That something in that stack is going to go bad every couple of days,

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week, like an operating system needs to be patched. The JVM has a bug, the app server has an issue,

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your code changes. And probably that code might be the last thing that changes. You might only have

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to change your code once a quarter, but something in that stack is going bad. So how often are you

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reassembling that container image? And the other nice thing that the build service does is monitor

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those other sources. So hey, the operating system changed. Cool. Let's regenerate those container images.

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And then if you have a pipeline set, you could actually be constantly updating your production

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environments with actually no human interaction, which is pretty neat. So by monitoring the source

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of the operating system, the sort of build pack level, like the JVM or the .NET runtime or whatever,

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and then also your source repository, any of those sources change to trigger a build is pretty

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powerful, especially as companies start going from, hey, we have a few containers to our company runs

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on container images. You're going to hit a sustainability problem really quickly. And something like a build

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service, which is constantly keeping you healthy, I think is pretty interesting stuff.

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So you, you made a strong case here for like, this is a really useful thing when you, you're, you're

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touching lots of different development teams and you're trying to drive consistency in the way they're

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building their containers. But I'm just thinking about, okay, so there's this beta available.

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Now my question is, who's the right kind of person to be playing around with the beta and kicking the

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tires? Is it an individual developer development team? That's just like, you know, I'm sold on the

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individual benefits of like, if I have to rebuild this every couple of days, because some component

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of my stack keeps changing, like done, like this seems better than what I'm doing, even as an individual.

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Or is it someone who's like, hey, I'm trying to manage a process across a bunch of different

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development teams. And I want that consistency. Who should be kicking the tires? Like, or both?

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Yeah. If I were doing a bad job of staying on message, I would say that the build service is

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not a dev tool, it's an ops tool. And I say that because the people who probably care the most

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about how stuff is packaged for production is an operations team that then has to figure out how

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to patch infrastructure. They have to prove to an auditor that they actually are not running an old

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version of SSL or what have you. So on one hand, I think the operator team is the one looking going,

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what are those sort of just base layers that I don't care what platform you deploy to, whether

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it's a VMware platform or public cloud Kubernetes or a Docker data center, like I don't care.

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I need a standard way to build containers, just like a standard way for authentication with Azure Active

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Directory or Azure Directory on premises, or here's a standard way we do logging or whatever, right?

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I think there's a set of plumbing things that most enterprises don't need a ton of variety on,

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because that's a lot of risk. And so if I'm an operator team, especially I think still in most

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enterprises where there are not product teams around every app. So there isn't someone to go upstream

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and say, "Hey, can you quick rebuild your container? There's a vulnerability." That person doesn't exist

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for a lot of the apps. So if you can hit a place where monitored or not, all of these sort of containers

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are constantly being refreshed and redeployed, that strikes me as more of an InfoSec operator excitement.

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Now for right now, the tire kickers will be devs because it's the easiest thing to try out.

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They're going to be the ones that evangelize this, I think, back to an operator team.

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But I think the end value, frankly, is probably going to go to operators because I'm sure plenty

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of people are in a place, developers, where they're done once they check in their source code.

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They're not even responsible for building the container, potentially. Their CI/CD pipeline does

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it and they never touch it again. So they may never even have the build problem. That may be an operator

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thing. Some organizations where you build and run your own service, absolutely, you're going to care

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about the build process. So it'll be interesting to see how those personas differ based on how the

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We're going to set up now. Yeah. No, I mean, it makes total sense that the ops team really over

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over the broader scheme of what they have on their plate. Yeah, it's super compelling. I just find it

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interesting that really an individual developer could find this useful. And as a beta, it's fun for folks

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to play around with stuff. And the idea of like, you know, you check in your code and then you're like,

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I'm out. It's like, I don't know. Is that like me with like our cat where like, once I feed the cat

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and I'm kind of like, I'm done, like you're around, like maybe I'll acknowledge your presence and maybe

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I won't. I feel like that's kind of the cat treats me. So, um, it's mutual, but yeah, like it would be

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different if I had like 10 cats and I'm like constantly having to fill all their food bowls.

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Is this analogy hidden at all? Someday. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just, uh, I'm reaching a little bit. I

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maybe have been home a little too long and the analogies are getting a little bit too close to home.

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So that's true. None of these are all populated analogies. These are like, Hey, whenever you have

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a raccoon in your porch, it's a lot like, like, wait a second. Totally. So yeah. Anyone else?

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Yeah. One raccoon is just as big of a problem as 10 raccoons. So, I mean, the scale problem with

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raccoons are very different with cats. Yeah, exactly. One container. Fine. 10, a little riskier,

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harder. Much like raccoons. I, I think this has legs, like the whole, like a raccoon does.

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Yeah. Four of them. Four walls, four legs. We're not doing any sort of octagon

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container here. That's, I don't want to see a raccoon. Okay. Well, I was going to ask Jared,

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just a public service announcement for people that want to try, uh, the build service. Uh,

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where should they go? Same instructions as before. Yeah. I think, uh, the, uh, the network,

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Tanzu network, uh, which still has pivotal in the name. So network.pivotal.io has the build service

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there as well as the, uh, uh, application service for Kubernetes, uh, beta there. So you can try out

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this stuff and it's, uh, free to use in your heart's, uh, heart's content. As long as it's a,

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it's a beta, uh, when those things flip the, flip the GA, then, uh, the lawyers, uh, put a

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little bit more teeth in some of the user agreements, but yeah, by all means, you know,

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check it out. And I think, uh, yeah, the, the scenarios that Richard describes are, are spot on.

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So if you are running Kubernetes at scale, again, as scale is when you're going to see this being

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something really useful. Um, and you want to get your teams to standardize in a way that's going

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to reduce your risk. That's going to be something that's, that's really attractive.

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Yeah. All right. So, uh, before we flip over to Scott to cover the, uh, the Kubernetes and containers

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focused, um, milestones, Richard, what's your, what's your latest, maybe something you've even

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learned. Cause you, as you've described, you have worked from home, uh, on some amount of regular

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basis for some time, not all the time. So you probably had some of your, your tip last time

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about like no, no housework, no chores, something new kind of come up on your radar. Now that you're

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like, okay, I'm, I'm really in it now. I'm like fine tuning. I mean, I just assume you're like a fine

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tuned machine with everything you do. So I want to know what the latest.

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No, you give me too much credit. No, the one I was actually thinking about today. So I did a team

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seminar today and it reminded me when I went up to the, uh, family beforehand saying, can we not stream

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anything right now? So I think it's even that understanding at home that, you know, when you work

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from home and if everyone's competing for your bandwidth, you have, you have two things you

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should consider a plan for some of those heavy usage thing. If you're going to go be in a major

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important conference meeting, maybe ask your family not to run all their windows update at that time,

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or maybe tune it, tune it, you know, tone it down on the Netflix. But then secondarily,

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I've learned how important it is to have a quick backup option. So have your phone handy,

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ready to go. If you have to call back into a web conference because your internet dies,

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nobody wants to sit there for 20 minutes while you reboot your machine and try to join again.

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So I've just learned to make sure I've got that backup ready because everything seems to run off my,

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my internet and that's not always going to be there.

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Uh, that's an excellent point about like the internet traffic cop.

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Um, and I'm just, I'm, I now have ants in my pants because it's like, I'm looking at the clock,

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the clock. And I'm, I know that my kids are about to go into Disney plus documentary a clock.

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Uh, so we'll see, we'll see how this goes, but for next time, that's a great tip.

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Yeah.

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All right. So Scott, um, turning over to you, there were, there were two different milestones hit

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for the containers and Kubernetes, uh, focused offerings within the, the Tanzu portfolio.

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So, uh, I'll, I'll leave it to you on which one you might want to cover first or second.

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Ooh, uh, uh, well, let's talk about Tanzu Kubernetes grid, uh, for a moment. So, uh, just as, uh, as,

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as before, when we were talking about a Tanzu application service for Kubernetes, talk about

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using Kubernetes to make a flagship offering even more compelling. And, you know, VMware has done the

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same thing over the past months and years with investments that we've made in embedding Kubernetes

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into the kernel of the company's longtime flagship offering vSphere. So that was announced a couple

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of weeks ago as vSphere seven with Kubernetes and the with Kubernetes piece is enabled by a technology

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called Tanzu Kubernetes grid. And this Tanzu Kubernetes grid is, uh, uh, a Kubernetes distribution

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that's aligned to open source embedded in that flagship offering, but can also be deployed and operated

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anywhere else you like on any public cloud or at the edge. And I feel like that gives our

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customers a lot of flexibility and that's important. So, uh, Tanzu Kubernetes grid is a real thing

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is generally available as is a vSphere seven with Kubernetes. Now those are really exciting announcements

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for us. Yeah. I hadn't thought about it in the, those terms of like, Hey, this is, this is boosting

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the, the, the, the relevancy, the usability and the feature set of something that's really already out

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there and that you love, but that makes a lot of sense because it, the, uh, that is, I think probably

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the, by and large where most folks are probably going to first get their hands on it. And speaking of

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our, our friends at, at red monk and their, their packaging, um, uh, I think it was a couple of years

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ago, they were on, they were on a big packaging kick about how, how you package things really

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is what can determine that. You know, Steve O'Grady used to make a lot of, um, references to

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my sequel doing so well because of the way it was sort of packaged in with Linux and, you know,

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easy to fire up from, from Linux. It's like, but yeah, I was thinking about how that is, this is,

383
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this is kind of right up that alley. It's totally taking that play of making something that, you know,

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everyone's already using and then just making it easy to turn on this, this new usability.

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Part of the aspiration for Craig McLuckie and Joe Beat it, uh, two of the three individuals that

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created Kubernetes in the first place and are, are part of the VMware team, uh, part of their long

387
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time aspiration and the aspiration of the community is to make Kubernetes boring, right? Like right now,

388
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it's just, it's too interesting. Uh, and that's not good, uh, when it's, when it's, uh, endlessly

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interesting and by embedding it in something like vSphere that hundreds of thousands of people use on

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a day-to-day basis, like you take a pretty significant step towards making the technology

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boring when you can use a familiar set of tools to provision a Kubernetes cluster the same way those

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users are used to provisioning virtual machines. And it allows something like vSphere to run containers

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and virtual machines side by side. And given the way that modern applications are composed,

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you know, that makes a lot of sense.

395
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Yeah. Big move.

396
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Yep.

397
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Um, and so then the other, the other product was the Tanzu Kubernetes grid integrated edition,

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which is the artist formerly known as, uh, VMware enterprise PKS.

399
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Yep. And so, um, that one also is coming out, both the, the name getting updated, uh, to TKGI,

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if you like using acronyms, that's now the, the 1.7 release. So similar to our, uh, TAS 2.9 is sort of

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proven and established and out there. Um, TKGI is, is out there and proven in a lot of, um, folks who've

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been using that product for some time, lots of, uh, applications live in production running on

403
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what is now called, uh, integrated edition of TKG.

404
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,480
Yeah. And for the benefit of the audience, the reason that we made the decision to rename

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enterprise PKS as Tanzu Kubernetes grid integrated edition is because we, we love,

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we love us some long names, uh, at VMware, uh, uh, that's priority one priority two was being really

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clear that it like Tanzu Kubernetes grid is a Kubernetes distribution from our company. And we

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want to have a common nomenclature for how we talk about our Kubernetes distributions. Those represent

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our, our two flavors of bringing Kubernetes to our customers. Uh, and so renaming it just helps tighten

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that up a little bit. And so, uh, we've just launched version 1.7 of, uh, uh, TKGI and it

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includes a number of additional features that our customers have been asking for to drive some new

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efficiencies and to, you know, help make sure that there's more resiliency in the, in the design of

413
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the product. Yeah. And there's one of those, uh, version things that isn't always the most interesting

414
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thing to talk about, but TKGI supports what 1.16.7 of Kubernetes and I think TKG, uh, I don't know,

415
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proper, what do we call the other one? I think it's 1.16.8, but I point that out because I went

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through all the, just before this call, I went through all the public clouds and said, what is

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their default version of their Kubernetes runtime? And not to throw shade, a little shade, but the

418
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point is like, it's hard to run Kubernetes. It's even hard to run it as a service, but AKS and Azure,

419
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its default is 1.15. EKS is 1.15. GKE is 1.14. So it's hard to, and they, some of them support

420
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:49,120
other versions optionally. Like I can jump up to, you know, maybe 1.16 on one of them, not all of them,

421
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,520
but I just find that interesting, right? So there's value in running the latest, not just to say you're

422
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running the latest, but you're getting the most recent bug fixes. So it's not even just features,

423
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,720
right? The patches, the things that come in each version. It's not about being on the latest for

424
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functionality all the time. It's about being on the latest to be the most secure.

425
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:11,920
So it is nice if you are a TKGI, TKG customer, you're for the most part getting the, you know,

426
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,640
best in industry compatibility with the latest upstream version of Kubernetes. That seems like

427
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:21,600
a good deal for customers sometimes goes under the radar. Yeah, it's a good point. And it's the first

428
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:28,880
principle of our approach, right? Is to maintain alignment with open source in our offerings.

429
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:34,240
So you see that in something like TKGI. You even see it in the way that we bring other open source

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projects to the fore in offerings like Tanzu Mission Control, where we're using projects like Valero and

431
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:46,400
Sonoboy to enable backup or conformance testing, etc. So that's just something that you'll see across the

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the entirety of our Tanzu portfolio. Before we kind of close out, Scott, you owe us a lesson,

433
00:39:53,600 --> 00:40:01,200
a best practice, a tip for how you're surviving life at home, you know, making the best of it.

434
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:06,800
I'm staring at my new desk, which is a cardboard box on top of our foosball table and feeling like

435
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:13,440
I might be ill-equipped to offer sound advice. But, you know, one of the things that we've done in our

436
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:21,120
team that I really enjoy is we scheduled some water cooler time on a regular basis where the

437
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:27,920
no work talk. And I just enjoyed the opportunity to get together with a bunch of colleagues. And

438
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:34,320
we were trading notes about what free concerts we were listening to and what educational tools we're

439
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:41,120
using to help keep our kids dialed in and, you know, other resources that are helping us all. So I think

440
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,080
just having that time that you would normally have in the hallways or, you know, an informal discussion

441
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,560
and not having it on Slack, not having it in text, but having it like human to human,

442
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:57,280
staring across a Zoom session from someone is important. Yeah. Schedule the water cooler time.

443
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:03,520
Yep. All right. Well, that has been a whirlwind tour of a bunch of

444
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:12,400
good milestone announcements, lots to digest, and there's more coming. So look out for betas and

445
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:20,080
bits that are available today and continuing resources flowing out, talking through how to

446
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,960
use these and get the most out of them. And we love getting feedback. So it's your kick in the tires.

447
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:34,080
Tell us how it's going. All right. Thanks folks.