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Hey everyone. This week we have one of our interviews with a SpringOne Platform speaker

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where you get to not only hear a little bit of what they'll be talking about, or preview if you

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will, but some about themselves as well. Now we have SpringOne Platform coming up in my hometown,

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Austin, Texas, October 7th to 10th. Now if you're listening in the future, this is in 2019.

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Sorry if you missed it. You have to write a letter to me. Tell me how 2025 is doing.

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Always curious. Anyhow, you should take a look and register for it. If you register before

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August 20th, you'll get a nice discount from it. Otherwise, if you just go to springoneplatform.io,

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you can sign up for it and come see us in Austin. So with that, enjoy the interview.

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Today we're joined by Rhea Stein as part of our Women of SpringOne Platform series. And I just

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thought I would introduce Rhea to you, or better yet, let Rhea introduce herself to you. And we'll

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kind of get started picking your brain a little bit about the exciting stuff she's doing and the

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things that she's going to be discussing at SpringOne Platform. So Rhea, first, welcome.

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Thank you.

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And if you would, please just share a bit about yourself, however you want to kind of introduce

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yourself to our audience.

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Sure thing. So I'm Rhea and I'm working on the Spring Security team. I'm an engineer on the

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Spring Security team. And I'm working out of the Toronto office where I am right now.

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Prior to joining the Spring team, I was actually part of Pivotal Labs. So I've been part of

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Pivotal for a while, but I only started with Spring about three months ago.

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Wow, that is recent. That's cool. Okay, so now this begs all kinds of questions. Let's go back a

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little bit further yet. If you would kind of share with our audience, how did you get into tech to

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begin with? What drove you or dragged you into this field?

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When I was starting in university, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And I actually applied for

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math because that was something that I knew I liked. And I ended up getting accepted to the

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University of Toronto. And I started my first year studying math. And as a mandatory requirement,

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you have to take a computer science course, actually two of them. One of them is more programming

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oriented. And one of them is more theoretical oriented. And in the theoretical course, I learned about

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travel at the traveling salesman problem and P versus NP theorem. And I really started to like that part of

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it because it was kind of a mix between computer science and math. And I decided to go down that

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road more, where I could study both computer science and math in this kind of domain. So I ended up doing

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both degrees because I didn't want to leave my math degree, but I got into computer science as well.

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And then when I graduated, it was a lot more reasonable to find a computer science related

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job than it was to find a math related job.

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I can understand and relate. That's a very similar path to what I took.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. And sometimes, so did your friends think you were crazy? Did they think that was a great idea?

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Did they come with you?

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I don't think there were that many people that enjoyed the theoretical part of computer science as

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much as I did. Most of my friends that were in computer science as well loved all the programming

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courses, which I thought were fun, but they weren't quite as exciting as trying to figure out how one

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problem relates to another and coming up with proofs and figuring out complexity. That's the part that I was

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really interested in. And the person that I look up to very much is Steven Cook, who is a professor at

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the University of Toronto. And the first time I had a class with him, I was so excited. I was excited for

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probably the three months before that I knew that I was having a class with him. And then the first day,

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I was sitting beside my friend. And when he came into the classroom, I started just like shaking my friend.

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And they're like, calm down. It's okay. Why are you so excited? But yeah, that was one of the very

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exciting memories from my undergraduate. So it's almost like a rock concert type of experience.

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Yeah, for me it was. You know you're a nerd, wind.

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So you've kind of hinted at this already, but if I could ask, what do you love about tech in general,

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about your job, or anything to deal with this craziness that we deal with?

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So as I had said, I really like the theoretical part of computer science, the more mathematical part

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in dealing with complexity. And I can think about that a little bit when I'm coding, but that's not

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the main part of my job right now. The part that I really like about the tech industry in general is

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how much new tech there is all the time. And the fact that we just keep improving upon it.

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So it seems like we're automating more and more every day, but there's always something new to

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create or something new to automate. And even though 10 years ago, we couldn't have imagined how

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efficient everything is today and how many resources there are for us out there to help us write code

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better and deploy code better and serve it to our customers. But in 10 years, I think that we're

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going to look back to where we are right now and think, oh my gosh, how did people code and deploy

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things, you know, back in 2019. And I think that that's really cool.

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And new problems to solve. And even when they aren't new problems, they're problems that have

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been here a while that we just maybe haven't had a great way of solving.

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So yeah, there's, it's one of those really cool or really frustrating, depending on your

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perspective, things about our industry, right? It's, there's never a lack of things to do. There's

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never a lack of new things coming at us, which is kind of cool. I mean, along those same lines,

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how do you keep up? How do you, how do you prioritize what is important to read about,

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to dig into, to know, versus what may be of lesser importance or maybe not important at all?

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How do you filter through the noise to get to the signal?

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So it's funny that you mentioned prioritization, because that's a big thing from Pivotal Labs and

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trying to figure out what the next highest priority feature is. And I think it's similar with the

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things that I decide to focus on and learn and create and work on. It's very much driven by what

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the customer needs. So on the Spring team, for example, if people are really into Kotlin and

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have started using Kotlin with Spring, then we're going to put more effort into Kotlin and I'm going

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to start learning Kotlin. Meanwhile, I won't spend as much effort learning Go or something that our

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customers aren't really asking for.

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Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And which kind of leads me into the next question. This is,

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I love conversations that just kind of evolve of themselves, but you do have a really cool

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trajectory within Pivotal, moving from Pivotal Labs, where you work directly with customers on a daily

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basis, to the Spring Security team, where you primarily work with other Pivotal developers.

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And obviously, there's still customer interaction, of course. I mean, you've already mentioned that,

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but it's an entirely different dynamic, right? Care to share any thoughts or observations about any of

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that?

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Yeah, I think Pivotal Labs was such a good place to start in order to get a really good understanding

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of the practices that Pivotal has, both within the Pivotal Labs team and the platform teams and

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the Spring team as well. So Pivotal Labs tries to establish certain practices with

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the teams that they work on, such as test-driven development, pair programming, user-centered

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design, and they try to have an autonomous team. So the idea with the autonomous team is that

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the team itself gets to decide what their practices are going to be and just their general cadence of

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meetings and team interactions. So nobody's telling them, you know, you need to have a stand-up at

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9.05 every morning, or you need to use Concourse as your pipeline. And the autonomous team themselves

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decides what works for them. And I think that's something really cool about coming into the Spring

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team. They're almost like a team that has been working with Pivotal Labs for a really long time.

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So in labs, we would see this with teams that have had multiple engagements with Pivotal Labs that

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they've gotten to this point where they are making a lot of decisions for themselves and modifying the

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practices. So initially, when a team joins Pivotal Labs, the labs pivots are fairly strict about

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their practices. So they have to learn the basics first, like test-driven development, continuous

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integration, continuous delivery, before they can decide how exactly they want to modify them.

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But the Spring team is at the point where they've made these decisions and modified the practices

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to a way that suits the team very well. And I think that that's really cool to see because

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they still have all the same values, and they still get to the same results, but the practices are

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slightly different. I think it's also cool that we can decide that, for example, let's try doing a

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retrospective at the end of the week. And then if it doesn't work, we don't do it anymore. Or let's try

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using this tool to manage our backlog. And we give it a run, and if it doesn't work, then we switch it

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out for something else, or we get rid of it completely. And it's been really cool to see that on the Spring team

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team and just how much autonomy they have to drive what's best for their team.

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Yeah, when you describe it that way, it just really does sound like a very natural and very

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complementary progression, which is very cool, quite frankly. If I could ask too, you know, because now

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we're approaching SpringOne Platform, that's the series, right? That's the interviews. This is the big

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event of the year, and this is where all of the best and brightest minds get together and exchange

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information and we get to see each other again and discuss what has been happening, maybe some

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conversations that we haven't had a chance to have lately. We get to renew. But this year, you're

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speaking about, well, your talk is called Hello, Spring Security 5.2. And I read over the description,

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it looks really fascinating. It looks like a really great introduction to Spring Security 5.2,

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the new features, what have you. If you could, how did you arrive at that topic? What brought to your

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mind that this was something that you wanted to share with our greater community?

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So I'm doing the talk with Rob, who's the Spring Security project lead. And our talk is pretty much

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what you said or what you understood from the description. We're going to be talking about the new

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features that are coming out in Spring Security 5.2. And we're also going to be doing a bit of an

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introduction to Spring Security in general for anyone that hasn't used it or hasn't seen it.

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So Spring Security 5.2 is actually coming out around the same time as SpringOne platform. So it made

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sense to introduce it there and talk about the new features that are coming out. There's also the part

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where we're going to go over some of the existing functionality and how to integrate it into your

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project. And I think the reason for that is because even if you know about Spring Security, it's good to

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have a resource for best practices and how the Spring team expects you to use it. So if you're

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already using it, this might still be a good talk for you to come to and see what the intent was behind

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these. And we're also going to be doing a little bit of diving into Spring Security and debugging,

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getting to see what's happening under the hood. And I think that'll really help people if they ever

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have issues with it to figure out what the issue is by debugging it once they know what's happening

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a little bit under the scenes. Yeah, that always helps when you understand what's happening and why

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in terms of how you implement the end solution, right? Anything that you want to share to give us a

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sneak peek of what you're going to be talking about in terms of the new features and 5.2? Or should we just

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meet up with you there? Well, there's going to be some lambdas that are new.

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Oh, lambdas. Okay, I'm in. Oh, that's it. Okay. Wow. That was a small sneak peek.

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Really tight-lipped about this. Oh my gosh. So we're just going to have to go, which is what we

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should be doing anyway, right? Yeah, come check it out.

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Well, okay. So now in terms of SpringOne platform, I've talked about some of my favorite

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things, kind of getting together with the team and obviously drinking from the Spring source. Yeah,

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terrible jokes, I know. But what is your favorite thing about SpringOne platform? What are you

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looking forward to in particular? So this year, I'm really excited about the fact that SpringOne

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is going swagless and they're doing donations instead. I just saw the page that came out about

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that and I think that's really cool. I'm excited for that to happen. The other thing that I'm excited

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about is to see customers that I've worked with before. So as I think I had mentioned before,

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I was in labs for about three and a half years. So I'm really excited to see customers that I've

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been on engagements with before because I know a lot of them are going to come to SpringOne

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and just catch up with them and see how their product is doing, how their practices have evolved

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within their team. I got to see a couple of people last year that I hadn't seen for a while

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and it was really cool to catch up with them and see what they're up to.

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Yeah, that is cool. When you see actually the end result that comes of all of this work that we all

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do and they're doing and see the good things that they put together using Spring, right?

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So what would you say to someone who's not yet made the commitment, who is kind of on the fence?

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Should I go to SpringOne platform? Should I not? Gee, the barbecue sounds awesome in Austin, but what should I do?

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How should I convince myself? And if that happens, you know, how do I take this to my boss?

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What would you say to someone who's considering going but isn't fully committed just yet?

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So I think one reason to go is to see all of the new features that are going to be coming out

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from the different Spring teams. I know a lot of the teams are planning releases around

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the same time that SpringOne platform is and they're going to be doing walkthroughs of new features

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and you can get the first look at the features that are going to be coming out in the next releases,

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which I think is cool.

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The other thing that I think would be useful for customers attending is talking to other customers

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about the products and the practices that they're using and what's worked well for them.

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I found that really interesting last year when I was there talking to various customers

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and seeing them interact with each other and saying, you know,

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oh, you tried this out and it worked really well for you.

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Maybe we should try it out because we've been doing something else

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and it's not working because of these reasons.

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And seeing organizations that are similar to yours and what kind of practices they've adopted

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and what kind of products they've adopted and seeing how that might fit into your organization

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because it might be very similar.

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Yeah, that's a great point you bring out that I think we don't really stress enough,

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which is the community and how much the community builds the community,

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how much we all help each other, right?

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So that's something that I'm really looking forward to as well.

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And you bringing that up, it really makes me even more excited to go.

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So that's, we're all going to be in Austin in October and that's pretty much it.

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So the one thing I would suggest to folks is if you want to come and meet Rhea,

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this would be perfect opportunity to do so.

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Come to her talk.

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Hello, Spring Security 5.2.

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Hear Rob and Rhea talk about the new features of Spring Security in version 5.2,

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as well as just kind of general best practices, tips, tricks,

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and how to better secure your applications and your systems.

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So with that, Rhea, do you have anything else you want to add,

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any way that folks can follow you, reach you, or just meet up with you at SpringOne?

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I would love if people came to talk to me at SpringOne.

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I love talking to customers and seeing how they're using Spring and Spring Security.

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I don't have a Twitter or social media account.

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I might one day, but I don't right now.

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So any kind of code that I do would be on GitHub.

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So people are welcome to follow me there as well.

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Wonderful.

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Now, what's your GitHub account?

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I think it's Eleftheria S.

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But I will double check that for you.

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Okay, excellent.

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Yes, that's right.

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Okay, Eleftheria S.

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Yes.

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So that's perfect.

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Folks, follow Rhea on GitHub and come see her at SpringOne Platform.

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Hope to see you there.

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With that, Rhea, thank you so much for your time.

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And we'll let you get back to your day.

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And look forward to seeing you at SpringOne Platform in Austin.

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Thank you very much.

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Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview.

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I sure did.

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Hey, and as a bonus for listening this far,

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if you want to register for SpringOne Platform,

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the wonderful conference we have coming up October 7th to 10th

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in my hometown, Austin, Texas,

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when you go to spring1platform.io to register,

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you can use the code S1P200 underscore M Heckler.

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That's M-H-E-C-K-L-E-R.

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That's Mark's last name.

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You can find the discount code

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if you go to pivotal.io slash podcast as well.

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And that'll get you $200 off the registration fee,

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price, winning admission,

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however you want to think about it.

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Well, we've got several of these coming out.

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So if you enjoyed this one,

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you should check out the other ones.

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And otherwise,

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tune into the regular Pivotal Conversations each week or so.

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And we'll see you next time.

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Bye-bye.