1
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Well, it's been several weeks since we recorded.

2
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I think both yourself and I,

3
00:00:06,580 --> 00:00:10,760
which that sounds like some sort of mid-20th century poetry there.

4
00:00:10,980 --> 00:00:11,980
Both yourself and I.

5
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,480
Maybe it's a collaboration between Sylvia Plath and Shel Silverstein,

6
00:00:16,100 --> 00:00:19,280
maybe that unpublished children's book they worked on.

7
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,620
Although, you know, I'm reading, what's a Shel Silverstein book?

8
00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:24,900
Say I'm reading.

9
00:00:25,340 --> 00:00:28,640
Doesn't mean I'm reading it, but you've got the edge of the sidewalk,

10
00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:30,220
the end of the sidewalk.

11
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I don't know.

12
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I think people who cherish their childhood are probably rolling around in

13
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their pre-purchased graves.

14
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:37,640
I can't remember that.

15
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But I don't know if you've noticed the author picture of him.

16
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,060
He does not look like someone that you would want to have around your kids.

17
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He's got this scowl on his face and he's holding a guitar and he's got his

18
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foot pointed towards you,

19
00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,700
which I have no problem with the foot's pointed towards me.

20
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,220
But it's kind of funny that you've got this kid's book guy and his picture is

21
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basically like angry hippie.

22
00:00:58,700 --> 00:00:58,980
Yeah.

23
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You know, he's a, he's part of our childhood.

24
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So where the sidewalk ends and all these great books.

25
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There you go.

26
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Where the sidewalk ends.

27
00:01:06,820 --> 00:01:07,040
Yeah.

28
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I've been a few of these great books.

29
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Yeah.

30
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He seems like a, he was a pretty cool dude.

31
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Yeah.

32
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And he's got the, he's got the giving tree,

33
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which my wife is like,

34
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I do not want to read that book because I will sob at the end of it.

35
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It's just like the,

36
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the, the, the saddest book ever,

37
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but it is in an endearing way.

38
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I don't know.

39
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Must be a name for that.

40
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So yeah,

41
00:01:25,940 --> 00:01:27,160
I'm going to have to look up that,

42
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that Sylvia Plath shell Silverstein combo.

43
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,560
That seems like a good partnership.

44
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Well, anyways, I was in,

45
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I was in Jakarta and Bangkok and I think,

46
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I think you are various equally glorious places.

47
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Where were you traveling around at?

48
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Where was I?

49
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Not nearly as glamorous as Bangkok.

50
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A couple of trips to Boston,

51
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a trip to Austin, Texas,

52
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you know,

53
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some,

54
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some bouncing around coming up these next few weeks.

55
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So, but yeah,

56
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not the,

57
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not the Coté Asian world tour,

58
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which seemed pretty awesome.

59
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Asian world tour.

60
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I like that.

61
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Yeah.

62
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You know,

63
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I have noticed that,

64
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that you,

65
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you maybe I'm just noticing,

66
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but man,

67
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you're,

68
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you're going out there more and more,

69
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which is exciting.

70
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I need,

71
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I need to get in a meeting with you one day so I can see the,

72
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the full on seroter.

73
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It is something to behold.

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I got to be honest with you,

75
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but it's,

76
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it makes grown,

77
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I don't cry just like a shell silver steam book.

78
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Is it like Gallagher and you hand out like a glasses and ponchos if you're in

79
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the front row?

80
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Oh yeah.

81
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There's a splash zone.

82
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It's a,

83
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it's fun for the kids.

84
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That's good.

85
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That's good.

86
00:02:27,540 --> 00:02:27,720
Yeah.

87
00:02:27,740 --> 00:02:27,920
Well,

88
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so I was,

89
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I was at,

90
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I was at a DevOps days in Jakarta,

91
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which is really fun.

92
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:32,800
I,

93
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I,

94
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I never been there.

95
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And as,

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as always,

97
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was this true?

98
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I mean,

99
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if it wasn't true,

100
00:02:38,820 --> 00:02:39,880
I don't think I would say otherwise,

101
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but as always,

102
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when I travel abroad,

103
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like there was a,

104
00:02:43,220 --> 00:02:44,440
there's a lot of interest in,

105
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in DevOps and,

106
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and Agile,

107
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someone was talking to me and they said that several years ago,

108
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which,

109
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which is,

110
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is less than a lot,

111
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I guess they said,

112
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they said a couple of years ago that the,

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the local community there in Jakarta,

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that they've really gotten interested in Agile development and,

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and all of that.

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And I take,

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I mean,

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obviously Agile's like,

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well,

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maybe not obviously it's a little around 20 years old or so.

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So there's been plenty of time to be interested in it,

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but that there's a lot of community events and things going on over there,

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which,

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which is fun.

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It'll be,

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go back there.

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Cause you know,

128
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here,

129
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here's a little traveler tip,

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right?

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I've been to Thailand twice now,

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once for vacation.

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And then just recently,

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cause you know,

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I'm a highfalutin marketing person apparently.

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But when you go there,

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it's very different.

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They don't want to like give foreigners like spicy food.

139
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And so you have to like tell them to make your food spicy.

140
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And,

141
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you know,

142
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as I was trying to explain to people,

143
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like I grew up not only eating like Tex-Mex,

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which is spicy,

145
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but like you basically nowadays grow up eating Thai food.

146
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Like Thai food is just,

147
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I think,

148
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well,

149
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I don't know,

150
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at least here in the U S it's just part of our cuisine.

151
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And so,

152
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you know,

153
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it's nice to have spicy food,

154
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but then you go over to Indonesia and Jakarta,

155
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they don't ask the food,

156
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just spicy.

157
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It's great.

158
00:04:02,420 --> 00:04:03,340
And they got a,

159
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I think they call it and everything.

160
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Like they've got all sorts of spicy sauce and they'll give you a,

161
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they're one of those,

162
00:04:09,740 --> 00:04:14,660
those cuisine cultures that serves the fish whole without the guts in it.

163
00:04:14,660 --> 00:04:15,140
Of course.

164
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:15,760
Sure.

165
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They just serve the whole fish,

166
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which,

167
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which I still don't quite know how to serve myself whole fish.

168
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:23,600
I don't have those.

169
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I don't have that dexterity.

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Like,

171
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you know,

172
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to,

173
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to kind of like expertly cut the,

174
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the,

175
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:30,540
the,

176
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the fillet,

177
00:04:31,180 --> 00:04:33,680
the meat off of the bones without getting the bone in there.

178
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Like,

179
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,200
I feel like there's serving a whole fish lessons.

180
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:37,540
I need,

181
00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:38,720
I need to go to.

182
00:04:38,940 --> 00:04:41,980
I smell a marketing team building exercise.

183
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,880
I'm going to just find a nice cookout.

184
00:04:45,580 --> 00:04:46,900
Cook some whole fish.

185
00:04:47,900 --> 00:04:48,460
That would,

186
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:49,080
that would be good.

187
00:04:49,140 --> 00:04:50,180
That would be sort of like,

188
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instead of a,

189
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:52,620
instead of a ropes course,

190
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or I don't think anyone does this anymore.

191
00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:54,920
Right.

192
00:04:54,940 --> 00:04:56,780
Instead of a ropes course or falling backward,

193
00:04:57,340 --> 00:04:57,720
you would,

194
00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:58,000
you would,

195
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,580
you would work with each other to properly debone a fish that was already

196
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cooked.

197
00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:03,640
That's right.

198
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:04,840
I don't need trust falls.

199
00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:08,060
I just need to eat the meat you cut off a fish and not choke on a bone.

200
00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:08,940
Like that's trust.

201
00:05:08,940 --> 00:05:11,200
I believe that's right.

202
00:05:11,460 --> 00:05:13,160
And then of course you need to write a,

203
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,000
a white paper about it afterwards.

204
00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:15,660
Well,

205
00:05:15,780 --> 00:05:15,940
good,

206
00:05:15,940 --> 00:05:19,260
good segue into our general theme for the podcast.

207
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That's right.

208
00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:20,000
Well,

209
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,280
we also have a guest.

210
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,300
Why don't you introduce yourself?

211
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,020
Much returning guest.

212
00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:25,520
Yeah.

213
00:05:25,580 --> 00:05:27,120
This is Jared Ruckel.

214
00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:29,620
I'm on the product marketing team here at pivotal,

215
00:05:29,620 --> 00:05:33,660
and I'm already very excited to be here because the segue was really,

216
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,120
it's a white papers rather than speaking of grown men crying,

217
00:05:37,420 --> 00:05:38,460
which I think you mentioned earlier,

218
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:38,780
Coté.

219
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,680
So now,

220
00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:42,280
now by saying that,

221
00:05:42,340 --> 00:05:46,260
are these two topics that you're equally knowledgeable about and prepared to

222
00:05:46,260 --> 00:05:46,720
speak on?

223
00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:47,820
I,

224
00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:48,880
I do have children.

225
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,180
So I have some sort of grasp of children's literature.

226
00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:56,420
We spent a lot of time as a team talking about dragons love tacos.

227
00:05:56,820 --> 00:05:57,100
Whoa.

228
00:05:57,100 --> 00:05:57,880
What's that one?

229
00:05:58,280 --> 00:05:58,720
I need to look.

230
00:05:59,260 --> 00:05:59,660
Well,

231
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,060
you might be able to guess what it's about.

232
00:06:01,860 --> 00:06:03,380
I'm going to put that in the show notes,

233
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:03,640
right?

234
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:04,580
Dragons love tacos.

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You should.

236
00:06:05,660 --> 00:06:06,200
There's a,

237
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:07,960
there's a part one and a part two.

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And if you ask me and a fellow pivot door main,

239
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that is just really begging for a prequel.

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Like there's a whole story there about what happened beforehand that needs to be

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00:06:17,660 --> 00:06:17,960
told.

242
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:18,560
Yeah.

243
00:06:18,620 --> 00:06:18,760
Right.

244
00:06:19,180 --> 00:06:20,140
Tried other genres.

245
00:06:20,140 --> 00:06:23,140
Like he really didn't like taquitos and then he had some sausages.

246
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He just,

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he had to work his way up to tacos.

248
00:06:25,380 --> 00:06:25,660
Yeah.

249
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And then there's a plot twist in there about salsa and how spicy they like it.

250
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:31,220
Speaking of,

251
00:06:31,220 --> 00:06:31,560
you know,

252
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:32,740
spicy food,

253
00:06:32,820 --> 00:06:33,820
which is another great segue.

254
00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:34,580
Huh?

255
00:06:34,820 --> 00:06:35,080
Well,

256
00:06:35,180 --> 00:06:35,480
I mean,

257
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,840
I feel like my work this week is done.

258
00:06:39,180 --> 00:06:40,020
It's a wrap.

259
00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:41,480
Thanks for joining us today.

260
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:42,620
That's right.

261
00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:43,140
Well,

262
00:06:43,260 --> 00:06:47,040
consequent if that's a word to it being several weeks,

263
00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:47,420
there's a,

264
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:48,940
there's a whole slew of,

265
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,260
of content to go over.

266
00:06:51,340 --> 00:06:51,480
I mean,

267
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:51,800
I think,

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00:06:51,860 --> 00:06:54,440
I think pivotal has put out some things and we've got the,

269
00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:55,740
we had the CF summit.

270
00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:57,520
Yeah.

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00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:58,340
Last week.

272
00:06:58,340 --> 00:06:59,640
Or is that week before last?

273
00:06:59,780 --> 00:07:00,040
I forget.

274
00:07:00,260 --> 00:07:00,480
A couple weeks.

275
00:07:00,620 --> 00:07:00,780
Yeah.

276
00:07:01,060 --> 00:07:01,380
And,

277
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,480
and then Microsoft build is going on.

278
00:07:03,540 --> 00:07:06,280
They're sort of combined together.

279
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kind of everything conference,

280
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but sort of infrastructure and developer and,

281
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and stuff going on there.

282
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And then,

283
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and then of course there was a KubeCon last week.

284
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So we got some Kubernetes stuff and then not,

285
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not least of which there was a Dell tech world out there.

286
00:07:26,620 --> 00:07:27,520
I think this was last week,

287
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:27,720
right?

288
00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:29,120
In Las Vegas.

289
00:07:29,260 --> 00:07:30,240
Since you're the guest,

290
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:30,800
Jared,

291
00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:34,080
why don't you pick the first bucket of stuff that you want to sort

292
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:34,360
through?

293
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:35,640
Ooh,

294
00:07:35,780 --> 00:07:36,840
pressure is on.

295
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:38,480
Yeah.

296
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:39,000
How about the,

297
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,240
the KubeCon stuff?

298
00:07:40,980 --> 00:07:41,540
First of all,

299
00:07:41,540 --> 00:07:44,660
is there a controversy about how the conference name is pronounced?

300
00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:45,440
Oh,

301
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,280
a topic for some of the tools that are out there.

302
00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:49,140
I bet there was.

303
00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:52,300
Cause I said KubeCon and you said KubeCon.

304
00:07:52,780 --> 00:07:53,900
So that,

305
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,800
this sounds like we could really get into some,

306
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,380
some pedansplaining on this.

307
00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:57,700
Let me,

308
00:07:57,780 --> 00:07:58,660
let me make a case.

309
00:07:59,260 --> 00:08:00,320
It's Kubernetes,

310
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:00,920
right?

311
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:02,680
So you would say KubeCon.

312
00:08:02,980 --> 00:08:03,260
What's,

313
00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:03,960
what's your case?

314
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,960
Just we'll do a debate team format where whether you believe it or not,

315
00:08:06,980 --> 00:08:07,760
you can take the,

316
00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:08,860
the contra position.

317
00:08:09,060 --> 00:08:09,460
Well,

318
00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:14,000
cause there's a tool that you use that's cube CTL or cube control.

319
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,440
And that's kind of a mini debate about how you pronounce something.

320
00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:18,660
So I,

321
00:08:18,660 --> 00:08:20,920
I guess I'm now more confused than when we started.

322
00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:21,800
That's right.

323
00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:22,120
Well,

324
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,380
some people call that cube cuddle as well.

325
00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:25,800
Cause it's cube CTL.

326
00:08:26,060 --> 00:08:27,780
So that I can't say that with a straight face,

327
00:08:27,780 --> 00:08:28,460
but you know,

328
00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:28,960
all of these,

329
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,160
these things need better names.

330
00:08:30,780 --> 00:08:30,920
Wow.

331
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:31,580
You know,

332
00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:32,420
I'll have to find this,

333
00:08:32,460 --> 00:08:33,360
but I think there was a,

334
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:34,460
what is it?

335
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:35,040
XCD,

336
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:36,080
XKCD.

337
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:36,840
Yeah.

338
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,960
And a cartoon about how to pronounce things that ended in people shouting to

339
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,180
each other about GIF.

340
00:08:42,680 --> 00:08:43,320
So I think,

341
00:08:43,380 --> 00:08:43,380
I think,

342
00:08:43,380 --> 00:08:43,680
I think,

343
00:08:43,740 --> 00:08:44,500
I think that's a,

344
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:45,120
that's good.

345
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:46,320
We'll put that in there.

346
00:08:46,380 --> 00:08:46,520
Well,

347
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:47,080
there was,

348
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,340
there was a whole slew of announcements including you know,

349
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:51,300
Google had a,

350
00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:51,900
a,

351
00:08:51,900 --> 00:08:52,340
a,

352
00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:55,940
a yet another layer to put into the container stack to do more securing,

353
00:08:55,940 --> 00:08:59,000
which we discussed this last week on my,

354
00:08:59,140 --> 00:09:01,080
my own podcast software to find talk.

355
00:09:01,820 --> 00:09:02,720
But you know,

356
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:03,780
more security.

357
00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:04,520
Why not?

358
00:09:04,660 --> 00:09:04,900
It,

359
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:05,720
it seems better.

360
00:09:06,220 --> 00:09:07,200
And yeah,

361
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:07,580
I mean,

362
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:07,720
there,

363
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:08,120
there was,

364
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:08,740
there was a,

365
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,200
a lot of vibrant Kubernetes related stuff there.

366
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:12,460
I didn't get to go to the conference,

367
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,460
but it seemed nice.

368
00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:14,640
How,

369
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:15,020
what,

370
00:09:15,060 --> 00:09:16,780
what did you two spot from it?

371
00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:19,300
Yeah.

372
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:19,740
As you mentioned,

373
00:09:19,820 --> 00:09:20,400
there's a lot of,

374
00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:20,840
you know,

375
00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,380
any vendor there had some announcements.

376
00:09:22,380 --> 00:09:26,480
We had some announcements around work we're doing with,

377
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:27,420
with Confluent,

378
00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,540
the company that has primarily contributed Kafka and some of the work there.

379
00:09:31,540 --> 00:09:36,020
As we talked about our upcoming collaboration to make Kafka great on PKS,

380
00:09:36,300 --> 00:09:36,820
which is good.

381
00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:37,940
Then you had digital lotion,

382
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:39,900
announcing their own Kubernetes service.

383
00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:40,480
Cause honestly,

384
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,980
everyone has to have one at this point.

385
00:09:41,980 --> 00:09:44,160
So they had some good stuff there.

386
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:44,600
And you know,

387
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:44,920
it was a,

388
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:46,220
it was a good slew of vendors,

389
00:09:46,340 --> 00:09:49,560
large and small talking about different things with Kubernetes.

390
00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:52,220
I think at some point we may hit a Kubernetes exhaustion point,

391
00:09:52,340 --> 00:09:53,680
but it doesn't seem like we're there yet.

392
00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:03,400
I think for what I saw was some of the overlap and intertwining with,

393
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:03,860
you know,

394
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:04,540
serverless.

395
00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:08,700
So kind of talking about the fun Kubernetes container abstraction,

396
00:10:08,700 --> 00:10:12,260
and then serverless as the function abstraction and how all those things

397
00:10:12,260 --> 00:10:13,720
different play together.

398
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,020
And really how Kubernetes is a,

399
00:10:15,020 --> 00:10:15,360
you know,

400
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,800
interesting way to build,

401
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:17,100
you know,

402
00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:18,900
new platforms and new abstractions.

403
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:20,540
So I thought that was a kind of a,

404
00:10:20,540 --> 00:10:21,700
kind of a cool confluence,

405
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,420
not confluence of a different new ideas that we talk a lot about in tech.

406
00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:28,860
And we have obviously one of the co-creators keynoting at SpringOne.

407
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,280
Neha is going to be on stage probably on day one.

408
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:32,120
So yeah,

409
00:10:32,140 --> 00:10:34,800
I think it's cool that we're getting a little closer together as companies.

410
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:35,300
And there's,

411
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,480
there's a lot of most pivotal customers are either looking at or using Kafka and

412
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,660
running it on PKS seems like an ideal way to keep it close on a managed platform.

413
00:10:43,660 --> 00:10:45,400
So it seems like win-win now.

414
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:51,600
Now what's the SpringOne platform conference that might just be on September 24th to 27th

415
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:52,240
that you mentioned.

416
00:10:52,820 --> 00:10:53,640
It is,

417
00:10:53,740 --> 00:10:54,060
you know,

418
00:10:54,060 --> 00:10:57,620
and now you're past the first price cliffs and I've got to jump up to the incrementally

419
00:10:57,620 --> 00:10:59,720
more expensive ticket because you're a procrastinator.

420
00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:03,840
So now is the time to book and we're finalizing the content.

421
00:11:04,020 --> 00:11:06,580
Now all that we have a crazy amount of submitted talks,

422
00:11:06,580 --> 00:11:07,720
which was really impressive.

423
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,040
Just as you know,

424
00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:12,460
go take kind of company after company and individual after individual.

425
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,680
It was just an impressive set of folks coming in.

426
00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:20,220
So we'll have 25 or so percent of the catalog posted this month here in May.

427
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:21,640
Main stage is,

428
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,240
is settling down almost completed.

429
00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:24,100
I'm working on that.

430
00:11:24,180 --> 00:11:26,520
So it's going to be bigger and better than last year,

431
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:26,960
Washington,

432
00:11:27,100 --> 00:11:28,580
DC buy your ticket now.

433
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:29,320
Yeah.

434
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:29,880
Yeah.

435
00:11:29,940 --> 00:11:30,440
It's a,

436
00:11:30,540 --> 00:11:30,660
you know,

437
00:11:30,660 --> 00:11:31,480
it's sort of in the,

438
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,400
the Maryland part of DC to insult all the Marylanders out there.

439
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:35,720
I mean,

440
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,360
you're your own independent state.

441
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:38,240
That's true.

442
00:11:38,580 --> 00:11:38,980
But I think,

443
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,200
I think there's going to be a lot of crabs that,

444
00:11:41,380 --> 00:11:41,580
you know,

445
00:11:41,700 --> 00:11:43,260
so get a look into crabs.

446
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,940
I have my understanding is that it's a blue crabs that are the big deal

447
00:11:46,940 --> 00:11:47,200
there.

448
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:47,820
Well,

449
00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:49,140
also I mean,

450
00:11:49,140 --> 00:11:50,140
just to mention it briefly,

451
00:11:50,140 --> 00:11:50,660
we,

452
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:51,280
we,

453
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:52,260
we IPO'd,

454
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:53,900
I think since last time we talked,

455
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:54,660
that was fun.

456
00:11:54,660 --> 00:12:00,460
I enjoyed all the pictures from the floor of people enjoying themselves.

457
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,640
There's a little bit of hamming it up that,

458
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,780
that that's always nice to see you were there,

459
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:05,060
right?

460
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:06,340
I was.

461
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:06,580
Yeah.

462
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,380
I didn't get into the Josh long,

463
00:12:08,420 --> 00:12:09,180
you know,

464
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,660
photo bombing pictures from on that money or,

465
00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:13,220
or those sort of squawk box shows,

466
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:13,540
but yeah,

467
00:12:13,580 --> 00:12:14,700
that was a crazy experience.

468
00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:17,080
I'm proud of everyone for getting to this point.

469
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,680
And now the actual hard work begins.

470
00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:19,880
So it's a good milestone.

471
00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:20,480
Now,

472
00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:21,040
now I,

473
00:12:21,260 --> 00:12:21,920
when I was,

474
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,740
when I was abroad there,

475
00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:24,160
I think,

476
00:12:24,220 --> 00:12:25,720
I think when I was waiting to fly out of Bangkok,

477
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,040
I happened to watch that as a trading places.

478
00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:28,880
So is it,

479
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,400
is it like that movie with like,

480
00:12:30,460 --> 00:12:32,360
where there are the orange juice commodity thing,

481
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,160
or they're just people yelling at each other everywhere?

482
00:12:34,380 --> 00:12:35,900
I was hoping for more of that,

483
00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:37,840
but it was weird because all the pivotal people were in,

484
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,660
in suits and skirts and dressed up and all the traders wearing pivotal hoodies.

485
00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:44,940
So it was just such a bizarre swapping of,

486
00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:45,700
of roles.

487
00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:49,180
And there was not a lot of screaming and yelling and holding paper and throwing things in the air.

488
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,860
So it's all stupid computers now.

489
00:12:51,140 --> 00:12:51,400
Oh,

490
00:12:51,420 --> 00:12:52,040
that's too bad.

491
00:12:52,100 --> 00:12:55,460
It wasn't just like people throwing confetti paper into the air all the time.

492
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:56,140
No,

493
00:12:56,180 --> 00:12:58,480
I was trying to get a deal on orange juice,

494
00:12:58,560 --> 00:12:59,320
but didn't seem to get anywhere.

495
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,040
Yeah.

496
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,340
The orange juice futures.

497
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:03,760
So,

498
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:04,420
you know,

499
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,300
another thing that came out that I thought was interesting,

500
00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:09,680
because I'm always looking at this stuff as we have the,

501
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:10,720
as we call it,

502
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,160
the built to adapt benchmark,

503
00:13:12,780 --> 00:13:13,620
which I think,

504
00:13:13,660 --> 00:13:15,200
I think there's sort of two layers to it.

505
00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:20,240
I haven't actually seen the sort of the machinery behind it,

506
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:20,820
but there,

507
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,240
there's two things that are out there now that are interesting to look at.

508
00:13:23,260 --> 00:13:23,980
And there is a,

509
00:13:24,020 --> 00:13:31,200
I think it's across like four or five different phase or areas like in operations and the business side development.

510
00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:32,600
And there is a,

511
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,120
to borrow an old term of ours,

512
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,060
an opinionated set of metrics.

513
00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:39,280
And so I think just off the top of my head,

514
00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:44,440
there's probably like 12 to 15 metrics on there of things to track.

515
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:49,560
Like unplanned downtime versus planned downtime and not downtime,

516
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:56,780
but sort of like getting it right versus not getting things that were scheduled in the backlog versus discovered tasks that you have.

517
00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:02,240
And several other benchmarks that I think will start to be a useful thing for people to track with metrics.

518
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,160
Because I always think,

519
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:10,900
I don't know if you've been encountering this in your poncho front row gigs as it were,

520
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:11,980
but one of the,

521
00:14:11,980 --> 00:14:14,400
one of the fun things that's sort of like half,

522
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:21,280
I think serious and also half kind of EBC hazing is people ask you what metrics they should be using.

523
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,720
And these ones look pretty nice.

524
00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:26,580
They look like actual useful metrics for people to track,

525
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:27,860
not only at the team level,

526
00:14:27,860 --> 00:14:30,180
but at the management level as well.

527
00:14:30,380 --> 00:14:33,820
So those will be fun to stew over and look at some more.

528
00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:34,780
Yeah,

529
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:35,140
absolutely.

530
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:36,980
I actually was pretty happy with that.

531
00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:37,180
You,

532
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:38,160
you probably get this too,

533
00:14:38,220 --> 00:14:38,400
Coté,

534
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,540
but I've done a couple of talks the last few weeks on,

535
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,280
on how the best companies really measure their success.

536
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:44,080
And so,

537
00:14:44,140 --> 00:14:44,220
yeah,

538
00:14:44,220 --> 00:14:45,720
what are those metrics that matter?

539
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,520
And the benchmark thing seems good.

540
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:48,660
It's based in real data.

541
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:55,080
We're actually putting up a survey in the next couple of days where you can kind of grade yourself against that by answering some questions.

542
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:55,760
So,

543
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:56,780
yeah,

544
00:14:56,780 --> 00:15:00,540
I think it's a good exercise that most people don't want to get stuck with vanity metrics.

545
00:15:00,540 --> 00:15:06,360
And sometimes even I'm starting to believe that just the raw deploys count can be a vanity metric because it's,

546
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:06,720
you know,

547
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,500
if I do 10,000 a month or I do a thousand a week or whoever,

548
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:11,600
does that matter?

549
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,640
Maybe the better metric we've been talking about more is how many apps are on pipe wise that,

550
00:15:16,140 --> 00:15:16,240
you know,

551
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,500
maybe that should be a hundred percent because that means I can deploy whenever I want,

552
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:20,740
even if it's not every day.

553
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:22,380
And so there's just,

554
00:15:22,460 --> 00:15:26,200
how do you find the right metrics so you don't accidentally create the wrong incentives or you,

555
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,240
you celebrate something that actually didn't matter?

556
00:15:28,540 --> 00:15:28,940
Yeah.

557
00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:29,260
Yeah.

558
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:29,580
Yeah.

559
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:30,160
And I think,

560
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,480
I think there's enough metrics there that you can pick the one that's right.

561
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:34,860
The ones that are right for you,

562
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:35,800
or maybe just one.

563
00:15:35,860 --> 00:15:38,060
Like,

564
00:15:38,060 --> 00:15:38,700
I remember I've been,

565
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:39,900
as I'm fond of saying,

566
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,000
I think every six months I've been working on like updating my cloud native journey book.

567
00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:48,580
There's a whole bunch of new stuff that I haven't even read yet.

568
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:50,160
But I was,

569
00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:54,020
I was thinking about this metrics thing before I was looking over the benchmark thing.

570
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:54,440
And there's,

571
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:54,780
there's,

572
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,060
there's,

573
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,120
there's one case of a customer of ours,

574
00:15:59,240 --> 00:15:59,940
orange France.

575
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,240
And they wanted to,

576
00:16:01,780 --> 00:16:02,980
as is a common case,

577
00:16:02,980 --> 00:16:07,920
they wanted to have their customer service stop being call centers and be an app.

578
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:09,540
But more importantly,

579
00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:11,200
it was for small and medium businesses.

580
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:12,500
And more importantly,

581
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:13,920
they wanted to,

582
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:14,620
they,

583
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,360
they had a very humble approach.

584
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,680
They wanted to lessen the interactions that their customers had to have with them.

585
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,520
And that was like the,

586
00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:24,800
not the only one,

587
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,740
but that was like the top KPI that they picked to track,

588
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,180
which was a interest from the other side of it.

589
00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:30,360
Right.

590
00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:31,400
The sort of like,

591
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:32,280
as they would say,

592
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,880
business impact sort of metric to start tracking is like,

593
00:16:35,980 --> 00:16:41,680
figure out what the actual thing you're trying to accomplish is and start tracking that metric as a,

594
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:42,620
as a primary thing.

595
00:16:42,620 --> 00:16:47,620
And it's just an interesting notion that you could boil down one metric beyond,

596
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:48,100
you know,

597
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:49,760
the typical one of like,

598
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,000
how many books did you sell?

599
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,000
Which I think was a popular.com era thing to,

600
00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:56,520
to track to speak.

601
00:16:56,660 --> 00:16:57,380
But yeah,

602
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:57,640
I mean,

603
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,120
finding out what those metrics are and how to track them,

604
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,280
based on the,

605
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,860
the software work that you do,

606
00:17:02,860 --> 00:17:06,340
I think is it's valuable to see that kind of stuff.

607
00:17:06,340 --> 00:17:11,920
So the second thing that I think was interesting about this is the,

608
00:17:12,420 --> 00:17:12,520
in,

609
00:17:12,620 --> 00:17:12,840
in,

610
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:18,840
I forget how many organizations or it was across like five industries in several countries or something like that.

611
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,720
But there are also at the moment,

612
00:17:20,780 --> 00:17:24,480
maybe it'll be more like baseline metrics from insurance,

613
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:25,300
manufacturing,

614
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:25,920
banking,

615
00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:27,080
and other things.

616
00:17:27,180 --> 00:17:29,100
And it's interesting to go through there,

617
00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:31,140
to use another B word,

618
00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:36,540
to find a baseline for what is the baseline in that industry.

619
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:37,640
So like,

620
00:17:37,740 --> 00:17:38,300
for example,

621
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,760
I don't have the numbers in front of me because I'm a prepared professional.

622
00:17:42,820 --> 00:17:42,920
But,

623
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:43,860
you know,

624
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:48,660
there was some interesting commentary on how retail is actually one of the most advanced,

625
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,080
sort of digitally transformed,

626
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,200
sort of speak things like,

627
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:58,280
so because of the pressures that they have in the retail space and because they're very consumer oriented,

628
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:07,180
they actually are doing better than some other industries when it comes to their online presence and being able to transact online and things like that.

629
00:18:07,180 --> 00:18:11,880
And so you can look at some representative metrics across across those industries,

630
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:12,900
which I think,

631
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:13,160
you know,

632
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:13,440
when I,

633
00:18:13,540 --> 00:18:14,520
when I talk with people,

634
00:18:15,020 --> 00:18:17,200
I don't know if they always like,

635
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,520
if this is like top of mind of what they're asking.

636
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,860
But one of the things I try to tell them is like,

637
00:18:22,420 --> 00:18:23,240
you know,

638
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:23,580
you're,

639
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:25,340
you're probably normal.

640
00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:26,840
Like you may,

641
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:30,100
you may think like you're way behind or it's impossible to do something,

642
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:34,260
but you should get a sense of like your normalcy versus unnormalcy.

643
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:35,800
Not so that you can,

644
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,420
you know,

645
00:18:37,620 --> 00:18:39,400
slow down and not actually do things,

646
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,460
but so that you don't like,

647
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:40,780
you know,

648
00:18:41,420 --> 00:18:43,360
feel terrible about yourself.

649
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:44,760
Yeah.

650
00:18:45,060 --> 00:18:46,920
How okay you are.

651
00:18:47,460 --> 00:18:47,600
Yeah.

652
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:48,540
You should be dissatisfied,

653
00:18:48,540 --> 00:18:51,380
but you shouldn't necessarily be stressed out that everyone's lapping you.

654
00:18:51,380 --> 00:18:52,400
Like there's a mix,

655
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:53,300
I guess of,

656
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:53,580
yeah,

657
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,240
I think that's a good way to put it.

658
00:18:56,780 --> 00:18:57,020
So,

659
00:18:57,180 --> 00:18:58,160
let's see.

660
00:18:58,540 --> 00:18:58,880
So then,

661
00:18:58,980 --> 00:18:59,940
so then we,

662
00:18:59,980 --> 00:19:01,080
we should go over the,

663
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,480
the Dell tech world stuff.

664
00:19:02,660 --> 00:19:03,260
I think,

665
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:04,540
I think we had a good,

666
00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:05,200
writeup of,

667
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,600
of the sessions that we had there and,

668
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:08,940
and several other things.

669
00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:09,180
What,

670
00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:09,800
what's a,

671
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:12,940
what's your pick for what the fun stuff was at the Dell tech world,

672
00:19:13,060 --> 00:19:13,220
Jared?

673
00:19:15,180 --> 00:19:15,900
Let's see.

674
00:19:16,020 --> 00:19:16,500
You know,

675
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:21,580
there was actually a pretty good case study of Dell drinking their own

676
00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:22,140
champagne,

677
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:23,200
I guess is what you say.

678
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:24,580
We don't say the dog food thing anymore,

679
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:24,840
right?

680
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,360
There's a pretty cool case study of how Dell itself has started on this

681
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:31,680
getting better at software,

682
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,140
this whole digital transformation thing.

683
00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:34,600
And I think you,

684
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:37,340
you tweeted out the case study link to that this morning,

685
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:37,700
didn't you,

686
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:37,900
Coté?

687
00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:38,620
Mm-hmm.

688
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:40,220
Yes,

689
00:19:40,260 --> 00:19:40,580
indeed.

690
00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:41,180
So,

691
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:42,520
kind of talks about,

692
00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:42,800
you know,

693
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:43,220
the,

694
00:19:43,340 --> 00:19:44,480
a number of different things that,

695
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:44,760
you know,

696
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,960
both of you just been touching on about looking at,

697
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:47,540
you know,

698
00:19:47,540 --> 00:19:48,840
the metrics and,

699
00:19:49,020 --> 00:19:49,140
you know,

700
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:49,860
the numbers that,

701
00:19:49,940 --> 00:19:50,720
that really matter.

702
00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:53,520
and how you kind of,

703
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:53,520
you kind of,

704
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,220
you get to that particular point and how fast you can get there.

705
00:19:58,600 --> 00:19:58,840
You know,

706
00:19:58,900 --> 00:19:59,800
I think the money,

707
00:19:59,860 --> 00:20:00,840
the money line that you tweet out,

708
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:00,980
Coté,

709
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,500
was something about how it was like flipping a switch where you could get

710
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:05,340
some order of magnitude boost in velocity.

711
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:06,220
Yeah.

712
00:20:06,620 --> 00:20:07,020
Yeah.

713
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:07,520
It was,

714
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:08,380
it's been fun to,

715
00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:10,700
over the last few weeks,

716
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:11,500
read up about that.

717
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:11,800
Cause I,

718
00:20:11,980 --> 00:20:12,200
you know,

719
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,440
as being in Austin and also having worked at Dell,

720
00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:18,660
like I've spent some time looking at the,

721
00:20:18,660 --> 00:20:19,860
the labs,

722
00:20:20,180 --> 00:20:22,240
the pivotal style labs they have set up there.

723
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,300
And it is sort of where we have our,

724
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:27,920
our Austin labs office in a sort of,

725
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:28,400
I don't know,

726
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:29,180
casual way,

727
00:20:29,260 --> 00:20:29,680
if you will.

728
00:20:29,860 --> 00:20:30,460
And yeah,

729
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:30,920
it's,

730
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:31,860
it's cool to go in there.

731
00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:36,020
Cause it's quite the contrast from the traditional Dell,

732
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,540
everything that I would encounter where they have,

733
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:38,880
it looks,

734
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,700
it's set up exactly like a pivotal lab situation where there's people pairing

735
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:44,180
at this,

736
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:44,680
at a,

737
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,120
at a table and there's a nice open area to hang out at.

738
00:20:48,260 --> 00:20:49,220
And it's a,

739
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:51,720
they even have like some snacks and refreshments,

740
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,200
which is nice.

741
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,440
So I think they've been doing that for maybe a year or so now.

742
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:57,720
And,

743
00:20:58,100 --> 00:20:58,940
and it is like,

744
00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:00,100
you know,

745
00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:03,640
you don't really sort of think about this unless you've worked internally at

746
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:03,820
Dell,

747
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:04,280
but like,

748
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:04,480
you know,

749
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:05,700
they're working on like,

750
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,160
as they say in the article,

751
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,320
like Dell.com,

752
00:21:08,540 --> 00:21:13,600
which is the thing they're working on is a huge and also extremely mission

753
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,160
critical for,

754
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:15,760
for,

755
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:16,460
for revenue.

756
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:17,660
And so it is,

757
00:21:17,860 --> 00:21:18,300
and,

758
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:19,540
and it's also a very,

759
00:21:19,540 --> 00:21:23,020
it's been around for a long time and it's built of all sorts of systems.

760
00:21:23,020 --> 00:21:25,000
So it's a good ongoing case study of,

761
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,540
even though it's nominally from ourselves,

762
00:21:29,540 --> 00:21:31,820
so to speak it's,

763
00:21:31,820 --> 00:21:32,380
it's like,

764
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,280
it's the same similar challenges and type of software that most every large

765
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,400
organization has.

766
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,600
So it's good to hear that they're able to do it and the experience that they've

767
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:42,840
had.

768
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,360
And also their internet there is really fast.

769
00:21:46,860 --> 00:21:48,360
I always find that if you go there,

770
00:21:48,380 --> 00:21:49,760
you should bring your photos to upload.

771
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,300
It's handy to have that.

772
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:52,960
Nice.

773
00:21:53,340 --> 00:21:53,580
Yeah.

774
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:54,560
So,

775
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:55,540
and then also,

776
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:56,160
you know,

777
00:21:56,220 --> 00:21:56,300
I,

778
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:56,780
I've always,

779
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,940
I'm always into reference architectures and I see that we can't,

780
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,000
that they came out with one,

781
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,400
the pivotal ready architecture from Dell EMC,

782
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:05,280
which,

783
00:22:05,420 --> 00:22:06,260
which is a nice name,

784
00:22:06,260 --> 00:22:06,780
but there is,

785
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:07,740
there's a pretty good,

786
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:08,520
you know,

787
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,580
let's say high level reference architecture going over how all the various

788
00:22:13,580 --> 00:22:14,660
pieces fit together,

789
00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:15,720
you know,

790
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,780
running on top of these fear and VX rail and some other Dell EMC

791
00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:20,440
technologies.

792
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:21,340
But I think,

793
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,900
I think it is good to have an answer for no.

794
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,120
Here's an overview of what it would look like to run your own,

795
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,200
your own setup for this.

796
00:22:30,380 --> 00:22:34,100
And of course the actual setup of being integrated together,

797
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:38,520
that's also a nice side effect of generating a PDF that describes it.

798
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,040
So,

799
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,060
so that's always good.

800
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:41,400
Sarcastically,

801
00:22:41,540 --> 00:22:41,700
but.

802
00:22:42,340 --> 00:22:42,460
Yeah,

803
00:22:42,460 --> 00:22:43,400
I think that that's a,

804
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:43,780
I'm sorry.

805
00:22:43,860 --> 00:22:44,540
I think that the,

806
00:22:44,540 --> 00:22:45,480
the PRA thing is,

807
00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:47,780
is really kind of a interesting option.

808
00:22:47,780 --> 00:22:48,480
We talk about,

809
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:48,680
you know,

810
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,780
multi-cloud and companies having their choice of different infrastructure

811
00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:54,900
targets they want to deploy to when people you're doing,

812
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:55,380
you know,

813
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,000
private cloud as well as a public cloud.

814
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,600
So it's kind of this interesting mix of different things.

815
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,140
And PRA is kind of a unique option where if you don't want to kind of

816
00:23:05,140 --> 00:23:07,260
bother expanding your existing private cloud,

817
00:23:07,340 --> 00:23:09,440
you can buy this integrated appliance,

818
00:23:09,660 --> 00:23:10,200
just,

819
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:10,420
you know,

820
00:23:10,420 --> 00:23:11,580
plunk it down in your data center,

821
00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:12,320
plug it in,

822
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,000
and then you're,

823
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,160
you're up and running really quickly.

824
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,360
So we talk about this DIY value line kind of conversation.

825
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:20,720
If you don't want to muck around with,

826
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:20,980
you know,

827
00:23:20,980 --> 00:23:22,340
expanding your private cloud footprint,

828
00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:25,320
it's a really cool option to get going really quickly with it.

829
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:25,980
Yeah.

830
00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:26,420
It's a,

831
00:23:26,420 --> 00:23:27,740
it's a purchasable thing,

832
00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:27,920
right,

833
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:28,120
Jared?

834
00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:29,560
It's not just a reference architecture.

835
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,080
It's actually a skew that you buy that comes converged.

836
00:23:32,540 --> 00:23:32,860
Yeah,

837
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:33,340
that's right.

838
00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:38,000
So it's got the hyperconverged infrastructure and VX rail and all those kinds

839
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:38,380
of things.

840
00:23:38,380 --> 00:23:41,940
And I think it probably hyperconverged infrastructures may be a new thing for

841
00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:44,100
the pivotal universe to get familiar with.

842
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,000
But as we,

843
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:45,240
you know,

844
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:45,380
get,

845
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:49,640
get closer with Dell and start integrating more things with VMware and NSX,

846
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,380
there is a lot of appeal to have this,

847
00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:51,760
you know,

848
00:23:51,940 --> 00:23:53,660
turnkey to use up our,

849
00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:56,500
our buzzword quota or this option that you can just,

850
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:56,640
you know,

851
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:57,720
plug in and go.

852
00:23:58,340 --> 00:23:59,100
So yeah,

853
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:01,960
there'll definitely be a lot of interest in something like that,

854
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,140
particularly as it includes,

855
00:24:03,140 --> 00:24:03,780
you know,

856
00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:06,160
the app platform and then all this talk with,

857
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:06,360
you know,

858
00:24:06,380 --> 00:24:08,880
PKS and Kubernetes being able to get that stood up,

859
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,040
you know,

860
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:09,880
very quickly too.

861
00:24:11,180 --> 00:24:11,620
Yeah.

862
00:24:11,620 --> 00:24:12,420
Do you think when,

863
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,000
when they were in a conference room a while ago,

864
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,420
there was a lot of debate over saying turnkey versus key turn.

865
00:24:18,780 --> 00:24:20,400
Like when that phrase was a,

866
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:21,360
that idiom was created.

867
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:22,580
Cause there's sort of like equivalent,

868
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:22,980
right?

869
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:23,420
Like,

870
00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:26,740
like why would you choose turnkey over key turn?

871
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:29,040
There's,

872
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:30,980
there's some assignment.

873
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:34,140
You're going to have to give me a minute on this one.

874
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:36,200
I got you on that.

875
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,080
Cause I was thinking like,

876
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:39,840
where does that turnkey phrase come from?

877
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:40,080
I mean,

878
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,060
you got a car ignition,

879
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:42,240
you've got,

880
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:43,040
you know,

881
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,800
launching nuclear warheads.

882
00:24:45,220 --> 00:24:46,420
There's all sorts of things that you,

883
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:47,520
you turn a key for,

884
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:48,840
but then also it's a,

885
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,040
it's the act is actually a key turn.

886
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:52,060
I don't know.

887
00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:54,840
Maybe turnkey describes a key turn,

888
00:24:55,940 --> 00:24:56,960
you know,

889
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:57,500
English.

890
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:58,020
What,

891
00:24:58,060 --> 00:24:58,540
what a language.

892
00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:00,740
So it related to the reference architecture.

893
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:01,360
Mind blown.

894
00:25:02,660 --> 00:25:04,080
Related to the reference architecture.

895
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,020
There was also a,

896
00:25:05,020 --> 00:25:06,380
an update to the,

897
00:25:06,380 --> 00:25:08,720
the integration we have with Azure stack.

898
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:09,580
And more specifically,

899
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:10,660
the,

900
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,320
that as they say,

901
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,280
Dell EMC cloud for Azure stack,

902
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:19,380
but the Dell EMC version of Azure stack and how we fit into that.

903
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:20,600
So there are,

904
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,960
there are now many multiple options,

905
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:23,800
depending on what,

906
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:27,260
what you need to actually run a pivotal cloud foundry on premise,

907
00:25:27,260 --> 00:25:27,900
or maybe,

908
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:28,440
you know,

909
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,340
run it on your own,

910
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,100
where whatever premise it may be on,

911
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:31,880
or I'm sorry,

912
00:25:31,980 --> 00:25:32,340
premises.

913
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,120
But it seems like in the,

914
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:36,040
in the past year or so,

915
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:36,660
there's a,

916
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:43,460
there's been a whole bevy of these actual modes coming out that are pretty

917
00:25:43,460 --> 00:25:46,060
well documented amongst the community here.

918
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,340
And then also,

919
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:48,540
also not to leave it out.

920
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,940
There's also a virtue stream.

921
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:51,140
Right.

922
00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:53,240
Packaging of it,

923
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:53,780
which,

924
00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:54,720
which seems interesting.

925
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:54,960
Right.

926
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:55,180
And,

927
00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:56,120
and you know,

928
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:56,580
as,

929
00:25:56,700 --> 00:26:00,740
as that's sort of interesting in the sense that they manage it for you,

930
00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:02,240
like they'll manage running everything.

931
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:02,680
And I think,

932
00:26:02,980 --> 00:26:05,940
I think also a large part of what virtue stream does is they,

933
00:26:06,060 --> 00:26:09,620
you'll run your older ERP systems or from our perspective,

934
00:26:09,820 --> 00:26:10,120
older,

935
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,460
but they also are good at running your ERP systems.

936
00:26:13,580 --> 00:26:14,420
So you've kind of got,

937
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,680
for those people who worried about having their new application development,

938
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,980
be able to be for all the good reasons,

939
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,620
side by side with their existing systems.

940
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,520
That's another good option out there to,

941
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:27,180
for you.

942
00:26:31,020 --> 00:26:32,060
And then finally,

943
00:26:32,060 --> 00:26:33,620
I always like to point this out.

944
00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:37,240
So Dell has this Flickr account and they upload lots of photos,

945
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,060
which are always very well taken.

946
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:39,880
So there's,

947
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,620
there's three days worth of photos you can look at in the albums.

948
00:26:42,980 --> 00:26:45,180
Presumably it'll move over to smug mug one day,

949
00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:45,700
but,

950
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,220
uh,

951
00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:52,480
lots of photos of people doing stuff all the way down to my favorite is the,

952
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:52,820
uh,

953
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,020
the buffet and catering that I missed out on.

954
00:26:55,220 --> 00:26:57,580
But it looks like there was some tasty snacks out there.

955
00:26:58,140 --> 00:26:59,120
Legit FOMO there.

956
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:00,120
Exactly.

957
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,440
Food FOMO.

958
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,200
So,

959
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:02,680
uh,

960
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,220
I think other than a few miscellaneous things and maybe,

961
00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:05,680
uh,

962
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,200
asking Jared about,

963
00:27:07,340 --> 00:27:07,480
uh,

964
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:08,720
the exciting work that he does,

965
00:27:08,780 --> 00:27:09,600
there was also just,

966
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:10,360
it was a while ago,

967
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:11,680
but there was also CF summit,

968
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,200
uh,

969
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:12,780
that occurred.

970
00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:13,660
And,

971
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,020
uh,

972
00:27:14,060 --> 00:27:14,360
you know,

973
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:14,780
for me,

974
00:27:14,780 --> 00:27:15,960
I think there were,

975
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:16,380
uh,

976
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:16,560
there,

977
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,580
there were a lot of good as always,

978
00:27:18,580 --> 00:27:18,980
uh,

979
00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:22,960
sort of case studies and testimonials and things like that that came out,

980
00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:24,640
which equally,

981
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,200
uh,

982
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,700
it's always nice to promote pivotal and,

983
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:27,920
uh,

984
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,940
the success and other people in the cloud foundry community that they've had.

985
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:31,840
But it's,

986
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,480
it's also interesting to see the,

987
00:27:33,580 --> 00:27:33,800
um,

988
00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:35,300
the sort of,

989
00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:35,740
uh,

990
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:36,260
uh,

991
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:41,120
speeds and feeds that people have had like T-Mobile getting down to like 170

992
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:45,820
developers to one operator ratio for their pivotal cloud foundry neck of the

993
00:27:45,820 --> 00:27:46,100
woods.

994
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:46,900
And then,

995
00:27:46,980 --> 00:27:48,980
and then there was even more detail about the,

996
00:27:48,980 --> 00:27:49,500
uh,

997
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:49,660
the,

998
00:27:49,660 --> 00:27:50,880
the U S air force's,

999
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:51,260
uh,

1000
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:52,060
use of pivotal,

1001
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:52,380
which,

1002
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,800
which I think over the past six months has been extremely fleshed out,

1003
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:56,680
but it's,

1004
00:27:56,780 --> 00:27:56,900
uh,

1005
00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:59,140
it's such an interesting case that it's good to see more,

1006
00:27:59,140 --> 00:27:59,700
uh,

1007
00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:01,240
even more documentation of it.

1008
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:01,420
How,

1009
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,280
if I remember they basically got their,

1010
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:04,780
uh,

1011
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:05,400
their,

1012
00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:06,240
their develop,

1013
00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:06,440
well,

1014
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:07,400
you were actually in the session,

1015
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:07,960
but you know,

1016
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,620
what's remarkable about that is,

1017
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:09,940
uh,

1018
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:16,080
they were able to move down putting software into release from years into a

1019
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,220
matter of months and then iterate over it,

1020
00:28:18,220 --> 00:28:19,000
which I think,

1021
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:19,560
uh,

1022
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,600
extremely encouraging.

1023
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,060
But what,

1024
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:21,400
uh,

1025
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,800
what did you see in that session that you thought was interesting?

1026
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:24,620
Yeah.

1027
00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:27,380
The video is online now as well up on the cloud foundry,

1028
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:28,040
uh,

1029
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,340
foundation YouTube channel.

1030
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:30,520
So it's a good watch,

1031
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,260
but yeah,

1032
00:28:31,260 --> 00:28:32,160
I think it was this,

1033
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,540
how this team was,

1034
00:28:33,620 --> 00:28:36,000
was showing some of the benefit back of this.

1035
00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:37,760
It wasn't just some rogue team,

1036
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:38,240
although,

1037
00:28:38,380 --> 00:28:38,540
you know,

1038
00:28:38,540 --> 00:28:42,140
they keep it Kessel run website and you can buy t-shirts and stuff like that.

1039
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:42,640
That's right.

1040
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:43,220
You know,

1041
00:28:43,220 --> 00:28:44,720
but there's something to that you learn.

1042
00:28:44,820 --> 00:28:47,040
And I think you've talked about that with all state and others too,

1043
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:47,860
is sometimes you also,

1044
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,320
you have to build a community around it and becomes infectious.

1045
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,380
And other people do want to copy those outcomes,

1046
00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:54,880
not just the cool tech stack,

1047
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,000
but that again,

1048
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,480
they're making a real difference with software.

1049
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:57,880
So it was,

1050
00:28:58,140 --> 00:28:58,260
you know,

1051
00:28:58,260 --> 00:29:01,680
they had some good numbers in there about reducing cycle times and getting

1052
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:02,460
stuff to prod.

1053
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,320
And they're going to,

1054
00:29:03,620 --> 00:29:06,320
I expect them to also be at SpringOne with some updated stories.

1055
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,160
So yeah,

1056
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:07,380
no,

1057
00:29:07,420 --> 00:29:09,760
some good stuff from air force as well as,

1058
00:29:09,820 --> 00:29:10,640
as you mentioned others,

1059
00:29:10,780 --> 00:29:11,740
T-Mobile on stage,

1060
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,780
plenty of customers telling good stories.

1061
00:29:13,780 --> 00:29:14,940
And of course at the conference too,

1062
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:16,880
it's not just customers telling cool stories.

1063
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,720
It's also good deep dives into the engineering and where the projects are

1064
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,440
going and what all the latest stuff is.

1065
00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:24,340
Yep.

1066
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:24,820
And,

1067
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:26,240
and then as they always do,

1068
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:26,780
well,

1069
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,140
I think they always do this.

1070
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:31,620
They released the most recent cloud foundry foundation survey.

1071
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,040
And yeah,

1072
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,320
I pulled out some items that I liked into the show notes.

1073
00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:36,940
If you want to,

1074
00:29:37,140 --> 00:29:39,060
you listeners want to go peruse that,

1075
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:40,140
but I think,

1076
00:29:40,220 --> 00:29:40,920
I think in general,

1077
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,300
the,

1078
00:29:41,380 --> 00:29:41,980
the,

1079
00:29:41,980 --> 00:29:42,820
the couple of,

1080
00:29:42,820 --> 00:29:47,460
of parts that are interesting at looking at there are one sort of

1081
00:29:47,460 --> 00:29:48,580
tracking the use of,

1082
00:29:48,580 --> 00:29:49,960
of Kubernetes in,

1083
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:50,760
in the,

1084
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,220
in cloud foundry deployments.

1085
00:29:52,220 --> 00:29:52,880
And I think it was,

1086
00:29:53,020 --> 00:29:57,400
it was up to like 13% of people using cloud foundry,

1087
00:29:57,460 --> 00:29:57,640
you know,

1088
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,280
across the distros were using the,

1089
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,940
the Kubernetes component and 45% were evaluating it.

1090
00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:07,260
So that there is a,

1091
00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:08,660
an extreme amount of interest.

1092
00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:09,000
I mean,

1093
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:09,800
it's,

1094
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,180
it's,

1095
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:11,280
I think it was over 600.

1096
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,360
There were about 380 people who qualified to answer,

1097
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,540
to be part of the survey.

1098
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,300
And so it's good.

1099
00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:23,200
It's good numbers to wrap around the sort of anecdotal interest and momentum

1100
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:23,840
we see there.

1101
00:30:24,220 --> 00:30:29,700
And then there's also there's also a very detailed analysis broken out by

1102
00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:33,540
things of the cost savings that people have had.

1103
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:34,060
And I think,

1104
00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:34,760
I think,

1105
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:34,940
you know,

1106
00:30:34,980 --> 00:30:36,320
the summary is that there's,

1107
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,340
I think there's four tranches of,

1108
00:30:39,340 --> 00:30:40,300
of cost savings,

1109
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:41,080
depending on,

1110
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:42,460
I forget how they're qualified,

1111
00:30:42,460 --> 00:30:43,180
but it's essentially,

1112
00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:44,240
there's about,

1113
00:30:44,380 --> 00:30:45,360
let's say about,

1114
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:46,740
it says nearly a quarter.

1115
00:30:46,860 --> 00:30:50,320
So let's call that 24% of people said that they,

1116
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,980
they're saving about a half a million dollars per application cycle.

1117
00:30:54,180 --> 00:30:56,520
And then there's a 17%,

1118
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,560
very precise number there who are saving over a million dollars per release

1119
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:01,900
cycle,

1120
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:02,620
which,

1121
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:03,140
you know,

1122
00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:06,440
even if you are conservative and discount those numbers down,

1123
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,140
it's a,

1124
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,080
it's good to see that people are optimizing on cost in their release cycle.

1125
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:11,500
In addition,

1126
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:12,420
as,

1127
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:13,540
as you are mentioning Richard,

1128
00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:14,760
and we're talking about with metrics,

1129
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,100
you know,

1130
00:31:15,420 --> 00:31:17,280
hopefully the business side is good as well,

1131
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,300
but people are always very interested in stuff,

1132
00:31:20,380 --> 00:31:22,060
with monetary signs in front of it.

1133
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,920
So there's some interesting stuff in the survey around that.

1134
00:31:25,820 --> 00:31:26,180
Yeah,

1135
00:31:26,220 --> 00:31:26,640
it's neat stuff.

1136
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,540
It's good to get those kinds of surveys and they had some good stats in

1137
00:31:29,540 --> 00:31:29,640
there,

1138
00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:30,020
as you said,

1139
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:32,260
that showed expansion and some other good points.

1140
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,660
So it's nice to get that out there.

1141
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,160
So I think that's about all the news that we have.

1142
00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:37,700
Did we,

1143
00:31:37,820 --> 00:31:39,240
the only other one I wanted to throw in there,

1144
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:42,740
I thrown something in there on security quickly that there was a,

1145
00:31:42,740 --> 00:31:45,500
a depressing story yesterday that,

1146
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:46,540
what was it?

1147
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:51,580
Like 11,000 companies have downloaded vulnerable versions of struts since

1148
00:31:51,580 --> 00:31:52,920
those patches came out.

1149
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,180
That was the same thing that Equifax got hit by.

1150
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:58,840
So we've had some security focused podcast episodes and this is just that

1151
00:31:58,840 --> 00:31:59,100
reminder,

1152
00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:01,380
like we're still doing the same things that get us into trouble.

1153
00:32:01,460 --> 00:32:05,260
And that is using vulnerable versions of software often as dependencies.

1154
00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:07,440
It's not even your code that has to change all the time,

1155
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,220
but your dependencies keep going out of date.

1156
00:32:09,740 --> 00:32:11,680
So if you're one of these companies,

1157
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,860
many of which are the fortune 500,

1158
00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:17,880
many of these are the largest financial and insurance firm for you're as

1159
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,360
vulnerable as Equifax was with some of these things.

1160
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,920
So maybe it's time to modernize and get off these things.

1161
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:23,840
Well,

1162
00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:24,460
let me,

1163
00:32:24,580 --> 00:32:24,920
let me,

1164
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,540
let me use this opportunity to use my only stretch joke.

1165
00:32:28,540 --> 00:32:28,960
Are you ready?

1166
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:29,960
Are you two prepared?

1167
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:30,920
Buckle up.

1168
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:31,500
All right.

1169
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,000
What are we going to do about that?

1170
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:34,760
Thank you.

1171
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:35,400
Thank you.

1172
00:32:35,540 --> 00:32:35,840
That's,

1173
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:36,980
that's my stretch joke.

1174
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,100
It's funny now as it was way back in 2004.

1175
00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:43,840
So that's,

1176
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:44,360
that's good.

1177
00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:44,960
Well,

1178
00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:46,440
speaking of a gift,

1179
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,140
you have a gift,

1180
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:47,640
my friend.

1181
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,940
Speaking of things that are as great now as they were in 2004.

1182
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,000
How about yourself,

1183
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:53,340
Jared?

1184
00:32:53,660 --> 00:32:55,400
What have you been up to since last we talked?

1185
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:57,440
Well,

1186
00:32:57,700 --> 00:32:58,560
see,

1187
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,380
we've talked more recently than 2004,

1188
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,420
so that's good.

1189
00:33:03,540 --> 00:33:03,980
Yeah.

1190
00:33:04,260 --> 00:33:04,440
Yeah.

1191
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:04,700
The,

1192
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:05,380
the mix of,

1193
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:07,260
of the product marketing gig here at,

1194
00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:08,340
at pivotal is,

1195
00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:09,640
you know,

1196
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:11,260
the tons of content work,

1197
00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:12,540
you know,

1198
00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:13,060
white papers,

1199
00:33:13,220 --> 00:33:13,600
blogs,

1200
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:14,760
you're doing product launches,

1201
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:15,100
you know,

1202
00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:15,900
things of that sort.

1203
00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:18,560
So all cool things as we help,

1204
00:33:18,740 --> 00:33:18,900
you know,

1205
00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:23,060
try and tell a compelling product narrative and highlight a lot of customer

1206
00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:23,440
success.

1207
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,660
So a lot of the stuff revolves around,

1208
00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:25,860
you know,

1209
00:33:25,940 --> 00:33:26,480
those two,

1210
00:33:26,580 --> 00:33:27,460
those two work streams,

1211
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:27,900
I suppose.

1212
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:28,580
Yeah.

1213
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:28,860
Yeah.

1214
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:29,280
I'm,

1215
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:29,780
I'm always,

1216
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:30,900
I'm always telling Richard,

1217
00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:31,800
we have a,

1218
00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:34,080
we have a blizzard of information.

1219
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:34,680
And I mean,

1220
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,100
you know,

1221
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,340
obviously in a good way,

1222
00:33:36,340 --> 00:33:38,080
but as,

1223
00:33:38,180 --> 00:33:40,440
as I've been around here like three years now,

1224
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,400
and I think,

1225
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:44,940
I think we've significantly ramped out our ramped up our publishing,

1226
00:33:45,340 --> 00:33:45,860
which is fun,

1227
00:33:45,860 --> 00:33:46,700
you know,

1228
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:48,940
for sort of like a data hoarder,

1229
00:33:48,940 --> 00:33:49,440
like me,

1230
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,820
it's exciting to find all of that stuff.

1231
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:52,960
Yeah.

1232
00:33:52,980 --> 00:33:54,660
I get way too much credit for any of that.

1233
00:33:54,740 --> 00:33:54,860
So,

1234
00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:55,080
I mean,

1235
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:55,520
for Jared,

1236
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:56,440
for specifically,

1237
00:33:56,860 --> 00:33:57,160
you know,

1238
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,720
I do look sometimes at our,

1239
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,480
our not even just competition,

1240
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,020
but like who are the biggest tech firms and what are they publishing?

1241
00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:04,480
And for our side,

1242
00:34:04,540 --> 00:34:06,060
let alone just in general,

1243
00:34:06,060 --> 00:34:08,000
we seem to publish a ton,

1244
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:08,520
you know,

1245
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,080
blog posts,

1246
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,800
clearly top notch podcast episodes like this,

1247
00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:12,980
white paper videos.

1248
00:34:13,380 --> 00:34:13,780
So,

1249
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:14,400
I mean,

1250
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:14,540
Jared,

1251
00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:14,920
have you,

1252
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,460
how have you kind of thought about how we're more purposeful?

1253
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,420
Cause it's easy to just blast this stuff out in the aforementioned blizzard

1254
00:34:21,420 --> 00:34:22,340
of content,

1255
00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:25,780
but sometimes it is good to organize around some sort of message.

1256
00:34:25,860 --> 00:34:27,200
What have we been doing this year?

1257
00:34:27,340 --> 00:34:28,940
I guess to maybe stay a little bit on point.

1258
00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:29,940
Yeah.

1259
00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:33,820
And this is a blast from the past for folks that have worked in advertising

1260
00:34:33,820 --> 00:34:34,800
or public relations,

1261
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,620
but there used to be print magazines and they used to have things called

1262
00:34:37,620 --> 00:34:38,860
editorial calendars.

1263
00:34:39,740 --> 00:34:41,720
And so editorial calendars are,

1264
00:34:41,720 --> 00:34:42,340
you know,

1265
00:34:42,340 --> 00:34:46,060
really handy ways to think about the messages you want to get out there.

1266
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:47,080
You know,

1267
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,660
that aligned with industry events or product releases or things of that

1268
00:34:50,660 --> 00:34:51,020
nature.

1269
00:34:51,740 --> 00:34:55,260
And so what we've done is that we've organized an editorial calendar for,

1270
00:34:55,380 --> 00:34:55,940
for all things,

1271
00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:56,120
you know,

1272
00:34:56,180 --> 00:34:56,500
pivotal,

1273
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:01,260
really thinking about the top messages we have and then aligning content to

1274
00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:01,480
those,

1275
00:35:01,540 --> 00:35:01,660
you know,

1276
00:35:01,660 --> 00:35:01,960
messages,

1277
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,560
having a primary theme,

1278
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:03,780
you know,

1279
00:35:03,820 --> 00:35:05,500
one month with a secondary theme.

1280
00:35:05,860 --> 00:35:10,940
And these are really handy guidelines that you give content contributors ways to

1281
00:35:10,940 --> 00:35:11,540
think about,

1282
00:35:11,540 --> 00:35:11,920
you know,

1283
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:12,940
timing of their,

1284
00:35:13,060 --> 00:35:13,860
of their content,

1285
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,220
sequencing deliverables,

1286
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:15,500
you know,

1287
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:16,400
things of that nature,

1288
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,720
aligning to broader industry trends.

1289
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:23,160
And it's a really handy way to think of it as a roadmap of sorts for all the content,

1290
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:26,300
creation and content syndication that you want to try and do.

1291
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,600
So what do you think are the,

1292
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,180
like of all the sort of mediums that,

1293
00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:33,580
that,

1294
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:34,420
that are out there?

1295
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,260
What are the kind of mediums,

1296
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:36,440
you know,

1297
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:37,620
across like white papers?

1298
00:35:37,620 --> 00:35:41,220
And of course podcasts is everyone's favorite as,

1299
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:41,640
as rich.

1300
00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:43,220
Then you got your,

1301
00:35:43,220 --> 00:35:45,400
your eBooks and blog posts and videos.

1302
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:45,720
What,

1303
00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:46,840
what are you finding that the,

1304
00:35:46,940 --> 00:35:51,540
the sort of like pivotal community responds best to or is most interested in?

1305
00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:51,840
I guess,

1306
00:35:51,860 --> 00:35:53,200
and I left that webinar as well,

1307
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,220
but where,

1308
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:55,320
where,

1309
00:35:55,380 --> 00:35:56,440
where's some of the more,

1310
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,560
most excitement engagement that you're seeing?

1311
00:35:59,200 --> 00:35:59,320
Yeah,

1312
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,960
it really depends on the,

1313
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:01,560
the,

1314
00:36:01,660 --> 00:36:02,900
the sales process,

1315
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:03,260
you know,

1316
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,160
when an enterprise,

1317
00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:04,400
you know,

1318
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:04,720
software,

1319
00:36:04,860 --> 00:36:05,300
you have,

1320
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:05,680
you know,

1321
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:06,260
six,

1322
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:06,880
nine,

1323
00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:07,520
12 month,

1324
00:36:07,580 --> 00:36:07,780
you know,

1325
00:36:07,780 --> 00:36:08,520
sales cycles.

1326
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,040
So I think if you look at lead generation,

1327
00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:12,000
the ebook,

1328
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,100
ebook assets are always,

1329
00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:14,820
you know,

1330
00:36:14,820 --> 00:36:15,460
top notch.

1331
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,720
That's why I was very excited when Matt Stein tweeted that he felt like writing a book again.

1332
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:21,740
So that was a great news,

1333
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:22,720
great news this morning.

1334
00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:25,940
And then as you get into really the,

1335
00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:28,760
the more mature parts of the sales process,

1336
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:28,980
you know,

1337
00:36:28,980 --> 00:36:36,140
the white papers can be really effective to help explain a concept either right before a meeting or right after a meeting.

1338
00:36:36,740 --> 00:36:59,320
What we've really tried to do is try and package up as much of that collective insight and wisdom from a lot of pivots so that they can send that stuff out ahead of time or as a follow-up so that they can focus their time in talking with the customer at a whiteboard and really getting down to the nitty gritty specifics of the problems that they're trying to solve.

1339
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,420
So white papers are great in that regard.

1340
00:37:02,420 --> 00:37:03,660
And then if things like,

1341
00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:03,800
you know,

1342
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:04,240
the blogs,

1343
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,440
the webinars and the social and podcasts are all great just for kind of a steady,

1344
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:08,740
you know,

1345
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:09,940
drumbeat of activity.

1346
00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:11,180
When something new comes out,

1347
00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:18,400
it's really handy to have a blogger or a podcast or a webinar to point people towards because things are just, you know,

1348
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:18,780
accelerating.

1349
00:37:18,940 --> 00:37:19,820
They're not slowing down.

1350
00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:26,320
So I think you probably do need a mix for all this stuff given the space that Pivotal happens to be in.

1351
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:27,080
Yeah.

1352
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:27,360
Yeah.

1353
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:27,780
I mean,

1354
00:37:27,780 --> 00:37:28,300
I find,

1355
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:29,220
I mean,

1356
00:37:29,220 --> 00:37:31,440
I would have answered the same way that I'm,

1357
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:35,940
I'm always surprised that all the different mediums still have thriving audiences.

1358
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:37,320
And,

1359
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:37,640
and I,

1360
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:38,000
I guess,

1361
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,080
I guess I should stop being surprised.

1362
00:37:40,340 --> 00:37:42,280
That's the only thing that's surprising that I still am.

1363
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:42,740
But,

1364
00:37:42,780 --> 00:37:43,020
uh,

1365
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:44,720
people like all the formats.

1366
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,520
You can't really hone in on just one.

1367
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:47,440
Yeah.

1368
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:48,360
And what's,

1369
00:37:48,420 --> 00:37:49,340
what's really cool about,

1370
00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:49,760
uh,

1371
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:50,440
you're working at,

1372
00:37:50,460 --> 00:37:51,780
at Pivotal is that,

1373
00:37:51,780 --> 00:37:52,260
um,

1374
00:37:52,340 --> 00:37:53,800
there's so much,

1375
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,720
you know,

1376
00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:57,920
kind of collective wisdom that everybody here has.

1377
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,280
So I think of this editorial calendar and a lot of what we do in,

1378
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,420
in product marketing is,

1379
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:02,680
you know,

1380
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,520
harnessing the hive mind of everybody that,

1381
00:38:04,580 --> 00:38:05,140
that works here.

1382
00:38:05,180 --> 00:38:06,280
And I'd probably include,

1383
00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:06,520
you know,

1384
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,560
our customers and partners in all this as well.

1385
00:38:08,740 --> 00:38:10,340
So when you're thinking about all the different,

1386
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:10,540
you know,

1387
00:38:10,540 --> 00:38:11,900
mediums and what's going to be really effective,

1388
00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:13,580
you still need to have that,

1389
00:38:13,660 --> 00:38:13,840
you know,

1390
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:14,620
good story.

1391
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,720
And there's all kinds of really cool artifacts that folks here have cobbled

1392
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:21,140
together from GitHub repos.

1393
00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:25,360
They did for a project or workshops that they run for a bunch of spring

1394
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,060
developers or a dot net,

1395
00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:29,120
your workshop as we're starting to do a lot more of,

1396
00:38:29,260 --> 00:38:29,880
um,

1397
00:38:29,940 --> 00:38:30,880
your customer wins.

1398
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,120
And there's just this rich,

1399
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:32,540
uh,

1400
00:38:32,940 --> 00:38:33,980
your fertile ground to,

1401
00:38:33,980 --> 00:38:36,660
to draw from as we create content and syndicate it.

1402
00:38:36,660 --> 00:38:38,760
And so we want to kind of do a,

1403
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,100
an open source wisdom of the crowds thing where anybody at pivotal can

1404
00:38:42,100 --> 00:38:42,720
contribute.

1405
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:43,000
You know,

1406
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:43,240
they're,

1407
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,720
they're part of the story to the,

1408
00:38:44,740 --> 00:38:47,060
to the narrative and you share what works,

1409
00:38:47,140 --> 00:38:47,300
you know,

1410
00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:48,380
what doesn't and why.

1411
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:49,200
Um,

1412
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:49,900
so that helps,

1413
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:50,300
uh,

1414
00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:50,700
you know,

1415
00:38:50,940 --> 00:38:53,980
capitalize on all these different mediums that remain still pretty

1416
00:38:53,980 --> 00:38:54,340
relevant,

1417
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,460
popular for different,

1418
00:38:55,460 --> 00:38:56,660
different personas.

1419
00:38:59,660 --> 00:39:00,140
Cool.

1420
00:39:00,220 --> 00:39:00,400
So,

1421
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:00,780
I mean,

1422
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,120
you mentioned already the,

1423
00:39:02,220 --> 00:39:02,500
uh,

1424
00:39:03,020 --> 00:39:03,280
it's,

1425
00:39:03,340 --> 00:39:05,160
I think it's been rewarding for you when people say,

1426
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:05,340
Hey,

1427
00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:06,480
can you help me with X and say,

1428
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:06,680
Hey,

1429
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,660
we actually have content that answers that question,

1430
00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:09,640
but you're not,

1431
00:39:09,740 --> 00:39:11,160
I don't think unless you've,

1432
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:11,400
uh,

1433
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,440
been lying to me,

1434
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,200
but you're not the one actually writing all of these things and

1435
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,160
creating all this content.

1436
00:39:16,260 --> 00:39:16,360
So,

1437
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:16,540
I mean,

1438
00:39:16,540 --> 00:39:17,200
what's the pool,

1439
00:39:17,340 --> 00:39:20,080
what's the pool of people you've been tapping into to actually help with

1440
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:20,440
all this?

1441
00:39:21,220 --> 00:39:21,380
Yeah.

1442
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:21,560
I mean,

1443
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:21,760
like,

1444
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,640
like I mentioned,

1445
00:39:22,780 --> 00:39:22,960
you know,

1446
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,120
anybody really has an open invitation to,

1447
00:39:25,260 --> 00:39:25,460
to,

1448
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:26,560
to write and contribute.

1449
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,800
And I know that that's probably a little bit different than some,

1450
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:29,520
you know,

1451
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:29,760
bigger,

1452
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,440
bigger companies that may have a little bit more of a command and

1453
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,340
control type of structure.

1454
00:39:34,340 --> 00:39:34,820
So,

1455
00:39:34,820 --> 00:39:35,660
uh,

1456
00:39:35,660 --> 00:39:39,360
we've had a lot of interest from the platform architects and these are

1457
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:40,000
folks that,

1458
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:40,640
um,

1459
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:41,220
really are the,

1460
00:39:41,220 --> 00:39:42,380
the best in the biz to,

1461
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:42,600
uh,

1462
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:43,320
to quote the pivotal,

1463
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:43,620
you know,

1464
00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:44,240
sales leadership,

1465
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:45,220
um,

1466
00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:48,620
where they'll be with the customer on site for a year or more while

1467
00:39:48,620 --> 00:39:50,460
they get them up and going with this,

1468
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:50,620
you know,

1469
00:39:50,620 --> 00:39:52,020
digital transformation business.

1470
00:39:52,180 --> 00:39:55,960
And so they just have a ton of stories from the front lines about,

1471
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:56,420
you know,

1472
00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:58,780
how things have been going and what's really resonated.

1473
00:39:59,400 --> 00:39:59,880
Um,

1474
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,340
and then also we've seen a lot of great stuff come from the,

1475
00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:02,520
uh,

1476
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,640
R and D organization,

1477
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:04,860
your developers,

1478
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,000
your product managers,

1479
00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:08,880
you're contributing to the new features that have been built.

1480
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:09,480
Um,

1481
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,020
and every new feature has a story behind it.

1482
00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:12,320
You know,

1483
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:12,500
we,

1484
00:40:12,580 --> 00:40:15,380
we literally use the artifact at pivotal called a feature narrative to

1485
00:40:15,380 --> 00:40:18,700
describe what that particular feature is going to do and why it

1486
00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:20,520
matters in the context of the customer.

1487
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:21,420
Um,

1488
00:40:21,420 --> 00:40:24,640
and all that stuff is really valuable information to buyers and

1489
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,820
customers out there knowing not just,

1490
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:27,040
you know,

1491
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,420
what a particular feature is,

1492
00:40:28,420 --> 00:40:28,960
but you know,

1493
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:29,960
why we built it,

1494
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,140
why it was important than getting into the house and the actual,

1495
00:40:33,220 --> 00:40:33,400
you know,

1496
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,180
technical nuts and bolts of all that stuff.

1497
00:40:35,380 --> 00:40:35,580
So,

1498
00:40:36,180 --> 00:40:36,480
um,

1499
00:40:36,740 --> 00:40:37,000
uh,

1500
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,080
we also do a lot with,

1501
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:38,300
you know,

1502
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:39,480
partners trying to syndicate,

1503
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:39,700
you know,

1504
00:40:39,700 --> 00:40:40,700
their content on,

1505
00:40:40,740 --> 00:40:41,760
on pivotal properties.

1506
00:40:42,020 --> 00:40:42,500
Uh,

1507
00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:43,980
no digital product lives alone,

1508
00:40:43,980 --> 00:40:44,900
as we all know.

1509
00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:45,760
So when people are,

1510
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,240
so when people are bolting on their tech to the cloud foundry to solve a

1511
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:50,520
more expansive problem,

1512
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,340
that's always stuff we want to try and highlight.

1513
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,440
There's great things we can learn from there as well.

1514
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:55,860
So,

1515
00:40:55,860 --> 00:40:56,520
um,

1516
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,040
we talk about the importance of a,

1517
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,120
of a frictionless path to production for,

1518
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:00,440
you know,

1519
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:01,720
your code and pipelines.

1520
00:41:01,980 --> 00:41:05,180
I think it's really important for content authors to have a frictionless

1521
00:41:05,180 --> 00:41:05,840
path to,

1522
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:06,160
uh,

1523
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:06,740
you know,

1524
00:41:06,740 --> 00:41:06,880
the,

1525
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,200
the website to get that content up and going there.

1526
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:10,540
So a lot of analogies,

1527
00:41:10,660 --> 00:41:12,420
I think with high velocity development for,

1528
00:41:12,540 --> 00:41:14,240
for high velocity content teams too.

1529
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:15,320
Yeah.

1530
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,660
Was there anything that you,

1531
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,760
that we've shipped either blog posts or white papers or others recently that

1532
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,100
kind of stood out to you that if,

1533
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:23,780
if somebody was listening to this podcast going,

1534
00:41:23,860 --> 00:41:24,640
and this all sounds good,

1535
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:25,240
but you know,

1536
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:26,940
I don't want to sift through everything.

1537
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,660
What's that couple of one or two must read things.

1538
00:41:30,060 --> 00:41:30,500
Yeah,

1539
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:30,800
there's,

1540
00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:31,220
there's,

1541
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:31,640
uh,

1542
00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:35,040
a really cool one on cloud native.net the right way.

1543
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,220
As we start to engage,

1544
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:37,420
you know,

1545
00:41:37,420 --> 00:41:37,960
more with,

1546
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:38,280
uh,

1547
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,040
windows shops and.net teams,

1548
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:40,300
you know,

1549
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:41,960
Microsoft build happening this week.

1550
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,180
You know,

1551
00:41:42,180 --> 00:41:44,120
lots of folks are talking about that and,

1552
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,060
and.net core.

1553
00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:46,120
So we've,

1554
00:41:46,180 --> 00:41:46,360
uh,

1555
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,000
encapsulated a lot of the collective wisdom of the,

1556
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:49,340
uh,

1557
00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:49,620
pivotal,

1558
00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:49,880
you know,

1559
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,480
.net experts in that paper.

1560
00:41:51,860 --> 00:41:52,340
Um,

1561
00:41:52,340 --> 00:41:54,740
and then there's just two other things just sort of in the spirit of,

1562
00:41:54,740 --> 00:41:54,960
you know,

1563
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:55,960
business outcomes.

1564
00:41:56,580 --> 00:41:56,980
Um,

1565
00:41:57,060 --> 00:41:59,780
there's a paper on value stream mapping and,

1566
00:41:59,900 --> 00:41:59,960
uh,

1567
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:01,020
the author has been on,

1568
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:01,280
uh,

1569
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:01,700
one of our,

1570
00:42:01,740 --> 00:42:02,920
our podcasts before,

1571
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:03,480
um,

1572
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:03,860
you know,

1573
00:42:03,860 --> 00:42:05,820
the white paper is crossing the value stream,

1574
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:08,220
improving development with pivotal and cloud foundry.

1575
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,080
So kind of this idea of that benchmarking,

1576
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:11,320
uh,

1577
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,960
post that we talked about the idea of what metrics matter,

1578
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,120
this value stream stuff is just a really handy way to get started with that

1579
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:18,760
whole process.

1580
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,600
So if you're not thrilled with how your software is going today,

1581
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,500
value stream mapping can be a great way to map out,

1582
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:25,700
you know,

1583
00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:29,920
the specific bottlenecks and start to build some alignment across all the different,

1584
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:30,260
you know,

1585
00:42:30,260 --> 00:42:31,780
executives in your company about,

1586
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:32,060
you know,

1587
00:42:32,060 --> 00:42:32,720
how to think about,

1588
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:32,940
you know,

1589
00:42:32,940 --> 00:42:33,420
changing.

1590
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:34,420
And then,

1591
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:34,800
um,

1592
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:35,980
and then one other last thing,

1593
00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:36,400
um,

1594
00:42:36,420 --> 00:42:37,880
this is a really cool series from,

1595
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:38,240
uh,

1596
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:39,700
Molly Norris Walker,

1597
00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:40,240
uh,

1598
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,120
a UX designer from pivotal labs.

1599
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:42,440
Um,

1600
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:43,920
she's got a book out and has been,

1601
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:44,280
you know,

1602
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:44,600
teasing,

1603
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:44,900
uh,

1604
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:48,400
teasing a few excerpts from it on the build to adapt blog.

1605
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:48,880
Um,

1606
00:42:48,980 --> 00:42:51,920
but she has a really cool post on how to craft a conversion funnel.

1607
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,380
And it really gets to this idea of how,

1608
00:42:54,380 --> 00:42:54,860
Oh,

1609
00:42:55,140 --> 00:42:57,600
AB test saying blue green deployment.

1610
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,960
It's about how all these newfangled development concepts can,

1611
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:02,360
uh,

1612
00:43:02,620 --> 00:43:05,840
get married up with UX ideas to drive business outcomes.

1613
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,200
So it's easy to over rotate on,

1614
00:43:08,260 --> 00:43:08,360
you know,

1615
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:09,900
some technical implementation details.

1616
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:10,560
Um,

1617
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:11,480
but those stories about,

1618
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:11,760
you know,

1619
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,580
UX and how they can help produce a better outcome is,

1620
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:15,120
uh,

1621
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,640
I think what we all need to keep in mind.

1622
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:17,360
Yeah.

1623
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:18,080
I think the,

1624
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:18,380
uh,

1625
00:43:18,380 --> 00:43:19,620
the value stream mapping one,

1626
00:43:19,660 --> 00:43:19,880
that's,

1627
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:20,260
that's,

1628
00:43:20,460 --> 00:43:20,880
that's a good,

1629
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:21,400
uh,

1630
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,720
example of,

1631
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:23,060
uh,

1632
00:43:23,060 --> 00:43:23,620
sort of,

1633
00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:24,640
um,

1634
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:25,740
what would you call it?

1635
00:43:25,780 --> 00:43:27,280
One of the sourcing strategies,

1636
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:27,920
uh,

1637
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,240
it seems like y'all use,

1638
00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:29,720
which is,

1639
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:30,340
you know,

1640
00:43:30,340 --> 00:43:30,540
so,

1641
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:30,840
so,

1642
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:31,120
uh,

1643
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,060
a platform architect who's like a,

1644
00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:33,340
uh,

1645
00:43:33,340 --> 00:43:37,160
technical person out in the field visiting with customers and prospects.

1646
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,360
Other people would call them sales engineers,

1647
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,520
but they're commiserate to their name.

1648
00:43:42,580 --> 00:43:44,360
There's kind of different than just someone who does,

1649
00:43:44,660 --> 00:43:44,760
well,

1650
00:43:44,780 --> 00:43:47,000
they're much different than someone who just does demos for you,

1651
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,740
but you can imagine that,

1652
00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:49,080
uh,

1653
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:49,740
there were many,

1654
00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:53,440
many sort of like meetings where it was suggested that you should look at your,

1655
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,520
your whole workflow and people would ask like,

1656
00:43:56,580 --> 00:43:56,740
well,

1657
00:43:56,780 --> 00:43:57,560
what does that mean?

1658
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,600
And then there was a lot of whiteboarding doing value stream mapping.

1659
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:01,760
And so I,

1660
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,800
I imagine that process was sort of like,

1661
00:44:03,860 --> 00:44:03,980
here,

1662
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,780
here's a repeating thing that comes up.

1663
00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:06,600
It seems helpful,

1664
00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:07,080
helpful.

1665
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,000
So we should,

1666
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:08,260
uh,

1667
00:44:08,260 --> 00:44:09,000
write it down.

1668
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,540
And then indeed you look through the paper and it is a pretty good sort of,

1669
00:44:12,540 --> 00:44:12,760
uh,

1670
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:13,820
reference architecture,

1671
00:44:13,820 --> 00:44:14,620
if you will,

1672
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:19,140
of how you would do a value stream map to figure out how improving your software would,

1673
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:19,440
uh,

1674
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,760
make you rate high on those benchmark metrics,

1675
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:22,200
I guess.

1676
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:22,840
But,

1677
00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:23,440
but it's a,

1678
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:24,020
it's a fun,

1679
00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:25,400
not too long paper.

1680
00:44:25,620 --> 00:44:26,020
Uh,

1681
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:26,280
yeah.

1682
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:28,500
Is there anything,

1683
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:29,080
Jared,

1684
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:30,940
as you look ahead and as we wrap up,

1685
00:44:30,940 --> 00:44:34,320
are there kind of things you look at that you look forward to us writing about?

1686
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,440
Cause you kind of see a bit of a dearth of discussion about it or,

1687
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,080
you know,

1688
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:39,800
things as a whole,

1689
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,160
you would hope that we come back to.

1690
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:41,960
I was actually reading,

1691
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,320
uh,

1692
00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:44,840
a story today on the new stack.

1693
00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:46,960
It was like an intro to get that reminded me of,

1694
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,880
sometimes we all zoom ahead to like the advanced sort of topics and advanced things.

1695
00:44:50,940 --> 00:44:53,260
We don't always rewind to people who are new at something.

1696
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:55,520
So kind of where do you feel are their gaps?

1697
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,560
Are we doing a good job helping people understand the basics and then are there advanced topics that we're not talking about enough?

1698
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:01,880
Yeah.

1699
00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:02,060
I mean,

1700
00:45:02,060 --> 00:45:03,240
you hit on it with the,

1701
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:04,820
the Equifax thing and,

1702
00:45:04,820 --> 00:45:05,240
uh,

1703
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:05,580
the,

1704
00:45:05,580 --> 00:45:08,360
the struts usage where there's still,

1705
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,580
it's just a lot of basic security hygiene that,

1706
00:45:11,580 --> 00:45:11,940
you know,

1707
00:45:11,940 --> 00:45:12,400
folks,

1708
00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:12,660
you know,

1709
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:13,640
aren't doing or,

1710
00:45:14,220 --> 00:45:14,320
you know,

1711
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,020
we need to find ways to compel those kinds of folks.

1712
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,080
You know,

1713
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,780
modernize their security practices.

1714
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:20,440
Uh,

1715
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:21,200
and you know,

1716
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,720
since a lot of these companies,

1717
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:22,960
you know,

1718
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,140
hold our personal information,

1719
00:45:24,140 --> 00:45:29,840
it is a personal thing for all of us to try and think about how we can all get collectively better at,

1720
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:30,080
you know,

1721
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,920
securing your systems and securing your data.

1722
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:38,580
So I think this notion of practical guidance for security and rapid patching and how to measure your security practices,

1723
00:45:38,580 --> 00:45:39,440
uh,

1724
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:39,820
is going to be,

1725
00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:40,000
you know,

1726
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,600
paramount for the foreseeable future.

1727
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:41,920
And,

1728
00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:42,480
you know,

1729
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:42,940
not just,

1730
00:45:43,020 --> 00:45:43,140
you know,

1731
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:44,120
newfangled things,

1732
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:44,540
um,

1733
00:45:44,540 --> 00:45:45,740
but a lot of the basics of,

1734
00:45:45,820 --> 00:45:45,940
you know,

1735
00:45:45,940 --> 00:45:47,360
applying patching with zero downtime,

1736
00:45:47,540 --> 00:45:48,320
things like that.

1737
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:49,220
Um,

1738
00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:52,060
and then the other thing that never goes out of style is,

1739
00:45:52,140 --> 00:45:52,440
you know,

1740
00:45:52,620 --> 00:45:53,420
business outcomes.

1741
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,240
And we've touched on it a little bit,

1742
00:45:55,340 --> 00:45:55,540
you know,

1743
00:45:55,540 --> 00:45:57,180
here in this conversation today.

1744
00:45:57,540 --> 00:45:57,940
Um,

1745
00:45:57,940 --> 00:45:59,940
but how do you focus on those business outcomes?

1746
00:45:59,940 --> 00:46:02,680
And a lot of tech conferences tend to focus on,

1747
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:02,940
you know,

1748
00:46:02,940 --> 00:46:03,060
the,

1749
00:46:03,060 --> 00:46:03,420
the pump,

1750
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,580
the plumbing and implementation details and,

1751
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:07,100
and that's all well and good.

1752
00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:07,620
Um,

1753
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,200
but not to lose sight of those,

1754
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:09,380
you know,

1755
00:46:09,380 --> 00:46:10,120
business outcomes,

1756
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,760
especially as you have at platforms,

1757
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,260
you've got all this Kubernetes business and now you've got serverless in there.

1758
00:46:16,420 --> 00:46:22,540
So this idea of using the right abstraction for the right workload and this idea of matchmaking,

1759
00:46:22,540 --> 00:46:23,300
I think is a,

1760
00:46:23,660 --> 00:46:25,800
is another key thing for folks to get their,

1761
00:46:25,980 --> 00:46:26,740
get their head around.

1762
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:27,880
And I think that,

1763
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:28,100
you know,

1764
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:30,960
Pivotal can play a really important role in helping shape how all that,

1765
00:46:31,220 --> 00:46:32,120
all that plays out.

1766
00:46:32,380 --> 00:46:32,820
Yeah.

1767
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:33,100
I mean,

1768
00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:33,560
it's definitely,

1769
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:33,940
uh,

1770
00:46:34,180 --> 00:46:34,720
that that's,

1771
00:46:34,820 --> 00:46:37,440
that's the whole point of all this that comes up over and over again.

1772
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:37,600
Yeah.

1773
00:46:38,020 --> 00:46:38,320
So,

1774
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:38,640
uh,

1775
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:39,760
that does sound like a,

1776
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,260
a fecund ground of,

1777
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:41,980
of content.

1778
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:42,440
Well,

1779
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:42,960
thanks for,

1780
00:46:43,060 --> 00:46:43,300
uh,

1781
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:44,560
being on this week.

1782
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:45,100
I think,

1783
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:45,400
uh,

1784
00:46:45,580 --> 00:46:48,900
I think we asked you maybe about like a 90 minutes before this.

1785
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:51,500
So it's always nice when someone's ready to hop to it.

1786
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:51,880
And,

1787
00:46:51,940 --> 00:46:52,160
uh,

1788
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,840
it was good to get an overview of,

1789
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:54,140
uh,

1790
00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:55,300
what you've been up to and,

1791
00:46:55,420 --> 00:46:55,660
uh,

1792
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,500
go over the past couple of weeks.

1793
00:46:58,340 --> 00:46:58,700
Uh,

1794
00:46:59,020 --> 00:47:02,460
we should be back next week on our regular schedule cadence.

1795
00:47:02,580 --> 00:47:03,500
We'll have to see.

1796
00:47:03,980 --> 00:47:04,340
Uh,

1797
00:47:04,380 --> 00:47:04,660
but,

1798
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:05,240
um,

1799
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:05,500
you know,

1800
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:06,020
as mentioned,

1801
00:47:06,060 --> 00:47:06,400
I think,

1802
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,300
I think if you're interested in all of this,

1803
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:08,580
uh,

1804
00:47:08,580 --> 00:47:11,080
there's SpringOne platform coming up and you know,

1805
00:47:11,100 --> 00:47:13,060
you can just go to SpringOne platform.io,

1806
00:47:13,220 --> 00:47:14,620
but we'll put a link in there.

1807
00:47:14,660 --> 00:47:15,060
And,

1808
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:15,300
uh,

1809
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:18,240
I think I actually have a call this afternoon to look over talks,

1810
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:20,140
but as Richard said,

1811
00:47:20,180 --> 00:47:21,400
that shaping up to look nice.

1812
00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:21,780
And,

1813
00:47:21,860 --> 00:47:21,940
uh,

1814
00:47:21,940 --> 00:47:22,760
there's plenty of,

1815
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:23,460
uh,

1816
00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:25,940
videos of all the sessions we've had in the past.

1817
00:47:25,980 --> 00:47:26,960
So you can get a sense of it,

1818
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:27,920
but I'd,

1819
00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:28,180
uh,

1820
00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:29,620
I'd encourage you to check it out.

1821
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:31,960
If you listen this far and,

1822
00:47:32,060 --> 00:47:32,180
uh,

1823
00:47:32,180 --> 00:47:35,220
you're interested in what's going on there and we'll put a link to it in the show

1824
00:47:35,220 --> 00:47:35,500
note,

1825
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:36,480
show notes.

1826
00:47:36,580 --> 00:47:37,060
And as always,

1827
00:47:37,060 --> 00:47:38,960
this has been Pivotal Conversations.

1828
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,560
If you want to get the most recent episodes and peruse our expansive back catalog,

1829
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:47,720
you can go to soundcloud.com slash Pivotal Conversations.

1830
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,620
And usually every Thursday,

1831
00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:52,140
and I think I might hit this this week successfully,

1832
00:47:52,140 --> 00:47:55,320
but usually every Thursday we put the full show notes up at,

1833
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:55,580
uh,

1834
00:47:55,580 --> 00:47:57,480
pivotal.io slash podcast,

1835
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,220
where you'll see links to all the news things that we discussed and,

1836
00:48:01,220 --> 00:48:01,580
uh,

1837
00:48:01,580 --> 00:48:01,880
some,

1838
00:48:02,020 --> 00:48:03,480
some other items here and there.

1839
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:04,320
So,

1840
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:04,560
uh,

1841
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,080
thanks for listening and we'll see everyone next time.

1842
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:08,140
Bye-bye.