1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,300 Well, next week is our big conference, SpringOne Platform, over there in Moscone West. 2 00:00:07,860 --> 00:00:11,660 Are you supposed to say Moscone West instead of just Moscone because you're humble? 3 00:00:12,020 --> 00:00:13,820 Like, why do I do that? 4 00:00:14,660 --> 00:00:15,020 Yeah, I don't know. 5 00:00:15,060 --> 00:00:18,540 It's like an east-west divide, you know, that you don't want to be on the east side. 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:19,100 I don't know. 7 00:00:19,220 --> 00:00:20,380 I think west is the place to be. 8 00:00:20,660 --> 00:00:23,960 Yeah, it's definitely, I definitely think it's probably the newer, well, I think they're 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,800 redoing the main area, but it's the nicer one. 10 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:32,640 And it has that, you know, I was, maybe about four or five years ago, I went to Toronto 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,520 on a little, back when I was an analyst, a little, one of those little junkets where they 12 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,280 like get an analyst to come in and then you get some floppy chicken and a storage vendor 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,240 pitches you, you know, that kind of situation. 14 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:43,640 Sure. 15 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:50,820 My recommendation is don't do those unless you as the analyst are very desperate. 16 00:00:50,820 --> 00:00:55,360 It's, you know, it's kind of a good excuse to kind of get out, but like unless you're 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,760 really going to work that as a travel expense thing, it's going to be more than it's worth 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:00,920 unless they pay you really well. 19 00:01:01,460 --> 00:01:04,280 Anyhow, I was driving around there and it's like condo town. 20 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,960 And I realized that basically all glass nowadays has this blue tint to it. 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:15,020 And so I'm sitting here in a lovely aloft, brand newish kind of here in Charlotte. 22 00:01:15,140 --> 00:01:18,280 I seem to come to Charlotte a lot and I'm looking out and there's a Wells Fargo building 23 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,200 across the street that has this blue glass. 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:25,100 And so my prediction is just like, you know, the first time I went to Silicon Valley, I 25 00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:28,460 was driving around and I thought like, this looks like all the background shots from the 26 00:01:28,460 --> 00:01:29,860 fall guy that I used to watch. 27 00:01:29,980 --> 00:01:34,300 You know, it's got the kind of like, like ranch style wooden stuff behind trees, like 28 00:01:34,300 --> 00:01:35,980 has this to me very 80s feel. 29 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,460 And I think several decades from now, when you see this blue glass, you'll be like, man, 30 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:40,980 the early 2000s were awesome. 31 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:42,180 It's a good time. 32 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:42,840 Or maybe not. 33 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:43,520 We'll see what happens. 34 00:01:44,020 --> 00:01:45,740 But I don't know, am I off base? 35 00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:49,720 Do you feel like blue glass is sort of like a recent phenomena that you see everywhere 36 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:50,340 in buildings? 37 00:01:51,220 --> 00:01:53,820 I mean, I think I'm going to notice it more now, now that you've highlighted it. 38 00:01:53,940 --> 00:01:54,200 Mm-hmm. 39 00:01:54,420 --> 00:01:54,660 Mm-hmm. 40 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:55,200 Yep. 41 00:01:56,020 --> 00:01:56,340 Yep. 42 00:01:56,780 --> 00:02:00,080 Also, I'm focusing on your fall guy reference, not the great American hero or what else you 43 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,080 could have sported there. 44 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:01,400 Yeah. 45 00:02:01,620 --> 00:02:02,060 Fall guy. 46 00:02:02,460 --> 00:02:02,660 Yeah. 47 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,200 Might have that song go. 48 00:02:04,340 --> 00:02:07,000 I might be with Cheryl Teagues or In Some Hay. 49 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,640 I forget which, the way it goes. 50 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,980 I was watching something the other night. 51 00:02:11,980 --> 00:02:15,140 Oh, I was watching, there's this, and then we'll get to the actual stuff, but there's 52 00:02:15,140 --> 00:02:20,100 this new documentary about Jim Carrey being in that Man on the Moon movie. 53 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:26,440 And it was interesting to see all the, like, he used to wear, like, Talking Heads class sports 54 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:26,760 coats. 55 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,620 It's interesting to see all the historic footage and stuff. 56 00:02:29,740 --> 00:02:30,780 That's a pretty good movie. 57 00:02:31,380 --> 00:02:32,980 There's a lot going on there. 58 00:02:33,540 --> 00:02:34,020 Yeah, I've heard. 59 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:37,360 Man, and he's got a wicked beard going on there. 60 00:02:37,660 --> 00:02:39,100 It's very, very well-grown. 61 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:39,920 You're not too shabby yourself. 62 00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:42,020 I know, I was getting a little inspired. 63 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,140 I was thinking about, what is the difference? 64 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,780 I think, one, he has let it grow long. 65 00:02:47,740 --> 00:02:48,400 Well, there's two. 66 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:49,380 One, he's let it grow long. 67 00:02:49,460 --> 00:02:53,060 And two, he doesn't shave his upper cheeks like I do, right? 68 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:55,740 So you see the very long, it's kind of like this curvy thing. 69 00:02:56,140 --> 00:03:00,240 And then two, I'm sure he had, like, a $500 beard cut or something, right? 70 00:03:00,340 --> 00:03:02,780 Like, you know, I would assume that... 71 00:03:02,780 --> 00:03:06,480 He doesn't have a family of birds living in it, like, you know, you may after a long time. 72 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:07,020 Yeah, yeah. 73 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,840 Or that, what's the name of the guy in Lord of the Rings who's got the birds living in his head? 74 00:03:11,420 --> 00:03:12,720 On top of his head, I mean. 75 00:03:13,180 --> 00:03:14,120 I know what you're talking about. 76 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:14,620 Yeah, no. 77 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:15,920 So I guess Jim Carrey avoids that. 78 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:16,320 That's good. 79 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:16,780 Yeah. 80 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:17,360 I don't know. 81 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:18,400 He's close to that wizard. 82 00:03:18,660 --> 00:03:19,080 We'll see. 83 00:03:20,460 --> 00:03:22,500 Anyhow, so like I said, next week, it's SpringOne Platform. 84 00:03:22,740 --> 00:03:27,660 So Richard had the good idea to kind of go over what our picks are and a little preview of it. 85 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:28,980 And we'll get to that soon. 86 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:30,960 But as always, there's been a little bit of news. 87 00:03:31,060 --> 00:03:32,840 I mean, there's a lot of news going on right now. 88 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:41,520 You got the Amazon reInvent, which I would like to commend you, Richard, on properly casing and spelling the reInvent conference. 89 00:03:41,780 --> 00:03:42,320 Very good. 90 00:03:42,420 --> 00:03:43,180 In our show notes. 91 00:03:43,740 --> 00:03:44,500 It's a lot of work. 92 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:44,880 Yeah. 93 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,140 It's attention to detail, though. 94 00:03:46,180 --> 00:03:47,380 That's what makes this podcast special. 95 00:03:47,660 --> 00:03:56,000 I was editing, giving some suggestions to a piece that one of our two new team members on my team, Paul, was writing about Kubernetes. 96 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,860 And I spent a lot of time consternating about how you write .cloud. 97 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,320 Now, of course, you can look at Wikipedia. 98 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,720 The D is lowercase, which is fine. 99 00:04:03,940 --> 00:04:06,680 And the C, of course, is uppercase. 100 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:08,220 I forget what they call that. 101 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,620 That's not camel cases. 102 00:04:09,820 --> 00:04:10,640 It are studly caps. 103 00:04:10,740 --> 00:04:11,140 There's one. 104 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:11,500 Anyways. 105 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:12,640 Wow. 106 00:04:12,860 --> 00:04:14,540 It's like mega tangent episode here. 107 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,520 But then what do you do when it's at the beginning of a sentence? 108 00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:19,800 It's very difficult. 109 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:20,320 Yeah. 110 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:20,880 Mind blow. 111 00:04:21,220 --> 00:04:21,360 Yeah. 112 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:21,580 Yeah. 113 00:04:21,900 --> 00:04:22,220 Yeah. 114 00:04:22,220 --> 00:04:23,060 It is reInvent week. 115 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:25,880 You know, I just got done watching some of the morning keynotes. 116 00:04:25,940 --> 00:04:27,520 And as usual, tons of great stuff. 117 00:04:27,620 --> 00:04:28,660 Good stuff on databases. 118 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:29,820 Good stuff on containers. 119 00:04:30,060 --> 00:04:32,680 The long expected Kubernetes announcement from them. 120 00:04:33,260 --> 00:04:36,800 Some really cool stuff with geographically scaled databases. 121 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,140 And, you know, open serverless database, at least positioning it as such. 122 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:41,540 You know, bare metal servers. 123 00:04:41,980 --> 00:04:45,620 The usual complete craziness of stuff, which is great. 124 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:48,740 And at the same time, it's all the notices on Twitter. 125 00:04:48,820 --> 00:04:49,620 You probably see these, too. 126 00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:54,260 Like, you know, this was just the sound of a thousand startups screaming out in horror as 127 00:04:54,260 --> 00:04:55,400 their business model went away. 128 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,520 It seems to happen every year where everyone gets really nervous. 129 00:04:58,640 --> 00:04:59,400 But then, I don't know. 130 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:00,860 It doesn't seem like it kills all the startups. 131 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:01,900 No, no. 132 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:04,780 It still seems like there's a lot of value in having things that aren't sitting in one 133 00:05:04,780 --> 00:05:06,620 cloud, even if that one cloud is awesome. 134 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:07,120 Yeah. 135 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,120 That people still like technology that might not be pinned to one place. 136 00:05:10,460 --> 00:05:10,680 Yeah. 137 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:16,860 I mean, you know, as a side note, for all the creative destruction babbling about startups, 138 00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:18,460 it sure takes them a long time to die. 139 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:21,920 At least the failed ones. 140 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:22,280 But, yeah. 141 00:05:22,540 --> 00:05:22,800 Yeah. 142 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:28,600 Over in our software-defined talk, my other podcast, Slack channel, one of my co-hosts has 143 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,280 been, I guess, live slacking the announcements. 144 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,940 So, I was flying out here to Charlotte this morning, so I missed it. 145 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,680 And, you know. 146 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:38,100 But, yeah. 147 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,860 So, is it EKS or AKS? 148 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,540 What do they call in their container service? 149 00:05:43,820 --> 00:05:45,340 Oh, I want to say it's EKS. 150 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,440 And there's really, we're almost out of vowels or letters to stick before K. 151 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,000 So, nobody else can really do that anymore. 152 00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:52,520 So, the KS is going to be tough to keep doing. 153 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:53,080 Yeah. 154 00:05:53,300 --> 00:05:55,080 And so, what's the deal with that? 155 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,860 What's your quick hot take on that? 156 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:59,860 I don't have enough quick hot takes yet. 157 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:00,880 I have to digest it all. 158 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,700 But, you know, they're offering some ways to just run kind of straight up Kubernetes. 159 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:08,220 They're offering this other technology that almost sits in front of it and hides all the 160 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:09,740 scheduler, which is interesting. 161 00:06:09,940 --> 00:06:15,060 So, again, as usual, kind of giving you multiple ways to consume stuff, which has also allowed 162 00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:19,780 the cottage industry to pop up to help people pick among the 14 databases and 16 ways to 163 00:06:19,780 --> 00:06:20,320 run compute. 164 00:06:20,700 --> 00:06:20,800 Yeah. 165 00:06:20,980 --> 00:06:26,400 The only, and, you know, I'm interested to see how the, I mean, you know, obviously we 166 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:27,380 are a pivotal part of it. 167 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,780 I'm interested to see how the Kubernetes landscape evolves over the next year with respect to 168 00:06:31,780 --> 00:06:32,460 sort of two things. 169 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:37,940 One is like how nice people are, which is always fun. 170 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:43,260 And so far, it's just been a lot of like, not even welcome to the party stuff, but like, 171 00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:47,160 you know, you had the Heptio, I forget which one of the founders is just like, oh, that's 172 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:47,480 great. 173 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,380 It's so nice that Amazon is here, but which is good. 174 00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:53,100 So we'll see what goes on there. 175 00:06:53,180 --> 00:06:57,800 And then second, there was actually a, I forgot if I put a link to here, but I'll have to put 176 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:58,260 one in now. 177 00:06:58,340 --> 00:07:03,400 There was a really good write-up in Computer Weekly, of all places. 178 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,540 That's kind of a backhanded side comment. 179 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,860 I've actually been reading them recently, and they have a lot of good coverage. 180 00:07:10,060 --> 00:07:15,740 But it was a very thorough piece about how basically the big tent strategy at OpenStack 181 00:07:15,740 --> 00:07:17,320 has been declared not helpful. 182 00:07:18,220 --> 00:07:21,720 And all the way up to Jonathan Bryce, you know, the executive director, talking about 183 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,060 how they're not doing that anymore. 184 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,960 And so, you know, comparing the Kubernetes community to the OpenStack community may gall 185 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,060 people, but it is the thing one would do. 186 00:07:31,540 --> 00:07:35,540 And so it'll be interesting to see how all the vendor concerns and stuff are managed. 187 00:07:35,860 --> 00:07:37,400 What size tent gets installed? 188 00:07:37,460 --> 00:07:38,300 Or maybe a canopy. 189 00:07:38,900 --> 00:07:39,220 I don't know. 190 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,040 I mean, I'm interested in your take, because you're an industry watcher, and you've got 191 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,260 some history as you keep an eye on things, is that almost unlike OpenStack, though, this 192 00:07:47,260 --> 00:07:50,840 wasn't widely embraced by some of the new age vendors, if you will. 193 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,700 It was embraced by a lot of the existing tech conglomerates as ways to run private cloud 194 00:07:54,700 --> 00:07:54,940 stuff. 195 00:07:55,060 --> 00:07:59,760 So, I mean, have you seen something where there's this sort of hot thing that everybody, 196 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,280 including, you know, again, the newest providers, I mean, now you have Google, Microsoft, Amazon, 197 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:09,340 let alone IBM, let alone the other 25 certified Kubernetes providers, all offering something, 198 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,400 and many of them claiming to offer vanilla. 199 00:08:11,940 --> 00:08:16,580 So not changing anything upstream, just kind of making it kind of more interesting, better. 200 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:17,380 That's fascinating. 201 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:18,340 But you're right. 202 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:19,700 I mean, where do you start jostling there? 203 00:08:19,740 --> 00:08:22,640 You can't just kumbaya your way through the whole thing, can you? 204 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:28,280 Yeah, no, and I mean, as a confirming side note, that's the other thing I've been noticing 205 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:33,620 and is worth tracking is how often people say they're doing vanilla mainline stuff, right? 206 00:08:33,660 --> 00:08:39,920 Because that is a very, it's not deeply coded, but it's a very specific comment on this is 207 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:45,200 ultimately compatible and not zero lock-in, all that kind of stuff. 208 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,460 Yeah, which did not happen in the OpenStack world. 209 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,780 I don't know if it was by design or whatever, but it ended up being on purpose. 210 00:08:53,420 --> 00:08:59,220 Anyways, so, yeah, I mean, as far as a comparison, I mean, I don't... 211 00:08:59,220 --> 00:09:01,120 I mean, sure, they're like everybody running MySQL. 212 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:02,700 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 213 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:07,580 Yeah, even that's a little different because that's like to overly nuance it, which is the 214 00:09:07,580 --> 00:09:12,200 point of the question, like, there's single source open source, and then there's multi-source 215 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:17,040 open source, and I think, I'm sure I'm missing some infrastructure thing, like, let's just 216 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:22,440 get rid of way, way back when all the IETF RFCs and how that drove things or didn't, I mean, 217 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:28,420 because that's pre-internet time, not really internet, you know what I mean, that's too far 218 00:09:28,420 --> 00:09:33,480 back, but I mean, even Linux is not really like that. 219 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:39,780 There's been competing distros that are just like infinitesimally incompatible enough to 220 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:46,040 be meaningful, and early on, like, it took a long time to shake out to just be the, you 221 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:52,520 know, Red Hat, basically, and then Canonical and a little bit of SUSE, or SUSE, and then 222 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:57,820 so it's kind of, Linux has kind of ended up that way, but I wouldn't say it started the 223 00:09:57,820 --> 00:10:02,300 same way that, like, Kubernetes seems to be, and then, I don't know, really the only thing 224 00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:08,020 I would pull, and maybe you know from your neck of the woods, so to speak, about this, 225 00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:13,620 but, like, Java was pretty good at all of this, like, and it kind of fragmented out for a 226 00:10:13,620 --> 00:10:18,320 while, and, you know, you can just go look up any debate that involves the guardians of 227 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,940 the Java or whatever to see how, you know, you got all sorts of stuff going on there that 228 00:10:22,940 --> 00:10:30,200 we get pulled into, but I would argue, even now, like, Java is pretty much like a multi-source 229 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,680 standard thing, and I think what concernates a lot of people is how broad that has become, 230 00:10:34,860 --> 00:10:41,180 but early on, back when there was a 2 in J2EE, vendors would differentiate on performance 231 00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:47,180 and manageability, but they wouldn't really differentiate on what the developer saw, right, 232 00:10:47,180 --> 00:10:52,340 like, there really was this true idea that you would be able to run your Java code, for 233 00:10:52,340 --> 00:10:58,100 the most part, on any app server or any platform, and I would suspect, just as will happen with 234 00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:04,360 Kubernetes, like, sure, you're going to have to change your IP addresses, or something like 235 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:09,360 that, right, and, you know, you'll have to change these kind of undergirding things, whatever 236 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:15,080 that girding tends to be, but in general, so far, the goal looks like your application code 237 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,660 won't have to change all that much. 238 00:11:17,180 --> 00:11:21,180 I think that's mostly, yeah, I think that's pretty fair. What you saw with Amazon even 239 00:11:21,180 --> 00:11:25,720 this week, and you see with others, is, as always, just like with serverless, is that you're trying 240 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,760 to connect to the other services. Like, yeah, Kubernetes is vanilla, but by the way, you know, 241 00:11:29,860 --> 00:11:35,780 multi-homed, you know, serverless Aurora from Amazon has no equivalent, really, elsewhere. Not the 242 00:11:35,780 --> 00:11:39,500 same way. Yes, there's interfaces, but for the most part, you're trying to connect me to your really 243 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:44,100 sticky services, like S3 and others, so yes, I can move the container, but I can't move any of the 244 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:47,740 stuff the container talks to. So, I don't know, maybe there's a long game in there of just 245 00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:52,520 commoditizing the compute to just nothing, and then it's always about the interesting services 246 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,240 that kind of keep me in your walled garden, which, hey, kudos, that's not a bad strategy. 247 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,500 Yeah, yeah, and, you know, you read over this for me, but if I ever actually get out this piece, 248 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,060 I'm writing the answers to this question for the register, then maybe I'll be able to refer 249 00:12:04,060 --> 00:12:07,920 people to it. I think I'm finally done. I'll see. There you go. Well done. 250 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:12,280 I had to, I made the little changes we talked about, and I think it works out well. 251 00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:13,560 A little less swearing. 252 00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:15,360 That's right. A little less swearing. 253 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:25,900 So, let's see. So, also, in other news, you know, I'm, you know, I didn't actually go read this 254 00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:29,800 in detail, but it looks like there's 51 companies. Is that right, or is it 50 that you can... 255 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:30,760 51, yeah. 256 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:36,100 51. Hopefully, one is the bonus one. I think one of the worst pieces of writing advice that the world 257 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:42,480 ever gave is that in your conclusion, you should add something as a bonus, which is just annoying, 258 00:12:42,820 --> 00:12:49,220 right? Just keep it to 50. You don't need to surprise me with 51. Anyways, but, you know, I think 259 00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:54,820 we were included on that list as a good place to go work at to bet your career on. I think as 260 00:12:54,820 --> 00:13:01,680 who was it? Not Lisa Loeb. That's a singer. But who's the... Was it Sheryl Sandberg or Marissa 261 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:07,160 Meyer said when Eric Schmidt was hiring her for Google, he was like, if you see, if someone offers 262 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,700 you a seat on a rocket, don't ask them what you'll be doing. Just get on the rocket, which 263 00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:16,420 that's probably good advice for high growth companies, if you're into that kind of thing. 264 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,340 Oh, that's a good point. I mean, sheesh, I left a vice president job to take a job with no 265 00:13:20,340 --> 00:13:24,740 job definition of pivotal. So, you know, you got to take a leap of faith when you're 266 00:13:24,740 --> 00:13:27,560 going to trust where you're going to go work. So, yeah, it was good to see us on the list. 267 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:32,560 I mean, I included this not just for, you know, self-congratulatory back slapping, but also 268 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:36,100 like this is a good list to go over and kind of see what it... Because this is a list of 269 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:40,240 enterprise startups, right? Kind of enterprise centric. So for our listeners, I think it's 270 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,620 just good to go through that list and see kind of what's interesting right now. Where are 271 00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:47,440 the problem spaces that you're seeing some innovative thoughts here? And it's not just going 272 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,860 to come from Amazon or Microsoft or Google. It's going to come from these other companies 273 00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:55,580 that have sometimes a very specific thing they're tackling around security or data or 274 00:13:55,580 --> 00:13:59,020 what have you. So I think it's just a good list to get a sense for where the market is 275 00:13:59,020 --> 00:14:02,540 as well as, look, if you're a little bored in what you're doing right now, maybe these 276 00:14:02,540 --> 00:14:05,380 are... All of these look like good opportunities for people. 277 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:15,680 Yeah, no, that's a good point. It is always good to get a unicorn listicle reassessment of companies. 278 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:21,700 And I think, you know, just skimming through it, I think what you see nowadays is a lot of 279 00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:26,480 these kind of companies, they're not what I would call necessarily always, although these 280 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,140 ones look like it, they're not always like tech companies. Like a lot of companies are using 281 00:14:31,140 --> 00:14:36,340 software and technology to change the way that they're doing things, which sounds trite and 282 00:14:36,340 --> 00:14:45,000 helpful. I'll move on to the next one. So also, let's see, what are the next items we got? 283 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:46,080 I'll let you take a look at it. 284 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,680 Yeah, listen, one of the next ones, Azure, Microsoft announced this interesting, they keep adding 285 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,680 these sort of tuning capabilities to their cloud database. And I included this because Oracle 286 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,700 touted the same thing when they had their conference at OpenWorld. A little while ago as well, 287 00:14:58,700 --> 00:15:03,020 you're like, here's this database that just runs. Like you don't really need people, it just kind 288 00:15:03,020 --> 00:15:06,900 of self tunes itself, it does backups, it does whatever. And you're seeing this again in the 289 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,320 cloud. Heck, you're seeing it from Amazon today. Like, hey, don't worry about backups. Don't worry 290 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,940 about this. Hey, we're going to automatically scale up and scale down your database based on usage. 291 00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:20,780 Don't even worry about it. This interesting move towards almost skipping the DevOps of databases 292 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:24,780 and just say, like, we'll just take care of it all for you at the platform level. You don't really 293 00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:30,020 have an ops story as a DBA. So I don't know where that trend's going. But it's interesting to see so 294 00:15:30,020 --> 00:15:35,820 many more of these databases become a little more autonomous with really no way to manage them as 295 00:15:35,820 --> 00:15:38,380 a DBA. Like you're purposely hiding all that stuff from you. 296 00:15:40,180 --> 00:15:47,340 Yeah, what do you think is that the idea of I was reading, what do you think of like the future of 297 00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:52,000 caring about what happens inside your databases? You know, I used to spend a lot of time, what do they 298 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:58,160 call it in Oracle plans or traces or something? And I don't know, is that is that still going to be a 299 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:04,760 thing? I mean, I think when you have like Oracle declared this, I think Microsoft did too, is almost 300 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,940 AI powered. So it's not just a couple of simplistic rules that say, hey, if this query is slow, do this, 301 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,220 it sounds like it's actually meant to be something that learns over time or gets smarter based on all 302 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:19,700 these other customers running in the cloud. So I guess I kind of trust the machine in that case over a 303 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:23,840 person who goes this, this is how I'll look at this query optimization and make a change. 304 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,180 You know, maybe that's, but it's gonna be so hard to pull that out of a DBA's hand because that's 305 00:16:29,180 --> 00:16:32,820 something that, you know what, that's a real good skill set. That's, those are smart folks. So 306 00:16:32,820 --> 00:16:37,840 is that going to be the next sort of blocker in terms of introduction of technology as DBA is going, 307 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,920 yeah, yeah, I don't like this weird black magic database you're bringing in here. I like tuning. 308 00:16:42,140 --> 00:16:46,900 I like sizing. I like those things, even though a developer just wants a database on demand that 309 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:48,160 it kind of takes care of itself. 310 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:53,120 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, I guess this is a completely incorrect characterization, but I often 311 00:16:53,120 --> 00:17:00,340 think of like, machine learning as brute force, dumb AI, in the sense of, if you have a big enough 312 00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:05,580 scale, just try a bunch of stuff out and see what works. And then and then repeat that cycle over and 313 00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:10,440 over again. And, you know, for example, in that sense, it's sort of like, if I've got the entire 314 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:16,340 corpus of the English language of the web, I can tell you how to probably spell things somewhat 315 00:17:16,340 --> 00:17:21,980 accurately, just, just not by knowing the like ontological way you should spell things, but just 316 00:17:21,980 --> 00:17:26,240 like, I don't know, this word is there is spelled this way most of the time. So that's probably what 317 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,480 you want. I'm sure it's much more complicated than that. But anyways, like, you know, it'd be 318 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,320 interesting that if you're running at like a public cloud scale, you're running your database 319 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,940 stuff. I have no idea what the fine print stuff about this is. But in theory, you could just 320 00:17:38,940 --> 00:17:43,480 like try out a bunch of stuff and see what the optimal way to configure your databases are 321 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:50,400 and to tune the performance. And then it would be nice to like reflect that back to the broader 322 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,740 community to kind of pool and then share best practices. 323 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:59,260 Yeah, I mean, data seems like the next frontier. I mean, we saw this with Amazon this week, 324 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,260 we're going to talk about it even spring ones with the data and DevOps and modern data. 325 00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:08,600 It seems like we figured out a little bit apps. I think we figured out the right way to do apps and 326 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,720 deliver apps and architect them and not, you know, it still takes a while for that to become totally 327 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,160 mainstream. But there's some really definitive patterns there. I think it's starting to emerge 328 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,040 for data. That's where we're all turning our gaze to. I think that's a great thing. 329 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:27,040 And so then speaking of the data area, over here in Pivotal Cloud Foundry land, there's now MongoDB 330 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,160 as a service, right? Added officially? 331 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,960 It is. Yeah, they put a blog post up themselves just making it on demand, which again, I'm glad they 332 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:40,600 use the on-demand broker. Get yourself an enterprise cluster. MongoDB is obviously still really popular, 333 00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:46,020 successful technology. It had a good IPO. So, you know, some people still see it as somewhat simplistic, 334 00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:50,580 but our friend James Governor wrote a great post that, you know, if you attribute MongoDB's growth 335 00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:53,600 to good marketing, you're not paying attention. Because what they did was actually solve a 336 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,840 convenience problem better than anyone else. And that is why developers treat it like a go-to. 337 00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:03,160 So, let's give props where they, you know, deserve. And even in enterprise, it seems like Mongo's 338 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,460 getting good traction. So, I love seeing that as an integration into PCF now. 339 00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:11,820 Yeah, yeah. I was talking with one of our customers recently, and they're rebuilding their whole 340 00:19:11,820 --> 00:19:18,440 platform. And they have Mongo at the center of it, which seems nice. I actually ran into the person 341 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:24,060 who's the Mongo admin. I mean, in a platform context, it's a little, you know, he's building 342 00:19:24,060 --> 00:19:30,280 it out and also running it. And yeah, I mean, in my Thomas Friedman style, getting in a taxi 343 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:35,380 and telling you how the world operates thing. Like, I think Mongo, Kafka, and Cassandra, like, 344 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:40,000 come up over and over again as the data stores. I assume that's also because people just don't 345 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,920 mention MySQL or MySQL or whatever you're supposed to call it, MyraDB. That must be used everywhere 346 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,360 as well. But it certainly seems to have proven out to be something that people want to use 347 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:52,280 that has power. 348 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,360 Absolutely. Now, you got to give the people what they want. I mean, arguably, again, I mean, 349 00:19:56,420 --> 00:20:00,380 you even, again, if I go back to re-invent again, when Angie Jassy's on stage saying, look, 350 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,680 our container service is popular, but you're asking for Kubernetes. That's what we're going 351 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,540 to give you. Sometimes that's what it takes, is that you might say Mongo is not your best 352 00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:11,120 choice and you want to use something else, but that's what people want. And it solves a great 353 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:15,420 problem. So, I like when platforms at least are a little pragmatic about what they offer. 354 00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:20,040 Absolutely. Well, I'll just throw out two other items, and then we'll get to the 355 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:28,280 SpringOne platform news. So, in our ongoing effort, I think, especially as older people 356 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:33,040 ourselves, it's always good to worry about, like, making sure that you have, I wouldn't 357 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,040 even use the word diversity, but that you widen the aperture to all of humanity to hire 358 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:42,440 from. And, you know, I wrote a column on this in the register a couple months ago, or maybe 359 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:49,320 it was a month ago. I forget. And I came across a survey. Now, it was done by, like, a, I don't 360 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,880 know, recruiting or HR company or something. So, whatever. You can get that bias. But I 361 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,620 think, at least on this point, it, there was an interest in the coverage of it. There was 362 00:20:58,620 --> 00:21:04,860 interesting commentary on how old people turns out. And by old, they mean people in their 363 00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:11,560 30s. So, there's that going on. But old people are a lot more stable as employees. So, when 364 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,320 you spend a lot of time, if it's like a high tech sort of role or a high skill role, and especially 365 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,280 with domain expertise, you spend a lot of time training them. And, you know, if they just 366 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:27,280 leave all of a sudden, then you wasted that. And it sort of has a huge cost to it. So, it 367 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,320 might be cheaper to buy young people, and they might be more thrilling and, you know, stay 368 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,260 later or whatever. But probably, at the end of the day, it's good to have a mix in that 369 00:21:36,260 --> 00:21:40,700 portfolio. So, there was a bunch of other stuff in there that was interesting. But especially 370 00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:45,360 for, like, you know, in talking with the enterprises who want to improve how they're doing their 371 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:49,720 software and do the digital transformation and stuff. I think thinking about your workforce 372 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:55,360 and your hiring practices comes up all the time. And it's good not to get lost down the 373 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:58,780 hole of hiring a bunch of, like, you know, hoodie college dropouts. 374 00:21:58,780 --> 00:22:00,440 Or digital natives, apparently. 375 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,180 Digital natives. That's the one. That's the one. 376 00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:03,860 Oh, use that word. 377 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:04,260 Yeah. 378 00:22:04,540 --> 00:22:09,140 You can hire the people over 30. They can still wear hoodies. But, you know, they might be a 379 00:22:09,140 --> 00:22:12,920 little more stable. There's good lumber in that pile in the back. 380 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,440 Yeah. I mean, you know, Amazon got a lot of credibility for some experienced hires this 381 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,400 year from, you know, Adrian Cockroft, James Gosling, others that they've brought in the fold. 382 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,260 And, yeah, there's some awesome experience there. There's also great stability, some great 383 00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:29,700 technical leadership, and people who are still coding every day. It's not like they're just 384 00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:33,540 hand-wavy, you know, PowerPoint people. These are the people who are still bleeding 385 00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:37,460 ahead. So, you know, look, the person who, people who work at Pivotal, like, we have a 386 00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:41,780 great age range here on the engineering side. People building modern frameworks at all stages 387 00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:43,660 of life. That's, again, awesome to see. 388 00:22:44,140 --> 00:22:50,160 You know, speaking of, our head of engineering reminded us that we have a slew of programming 389 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,520 and development jobs open, and designers and product managers. So, if you're interested 390 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,840 in that, coming to work at Pivotal, that hires all ages, you might be forced to wear a hoodie 391 00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:59,960 at some point, but that'll be fine. 392 00:22:59,960 --> 00:22:59,960 That's true. 393 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:04,860 But that'll be fine. You could just go over to, what is it, Pivotal.io, and go to the bottom 394 00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:09,480 and find the jobs thing. But there's, especially over the next eight or 12 months, there'll be 395 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,280 a lot of new jobs there if you want to, as I like to say, have a job that sucks less. 396 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,400 There you go. Put off retirement for a few years and do something fun. 397 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,080 That's right. That's right. And as long as you put me down as a referral, I'll be... 398 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,640 No, no, I want that. 399 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:24,280 That's right. 400 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:24,360 That's right. 401 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:30,740 We'll attribute it to the podcast and make a trust fund. The podcast fund. We'll buy some 402 00:23:30,740 --> 00:23:31,360 new microphones. 403 00:23:32,020 --> 00:23:37,680 So, then, you know, go to the show notes at Pivotal.io slash podcast to find that link 404 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,840 about the survey. And then this other one, there's also just, there's a good interview with 405 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,580 charity majors about what observability is and monitoring and logging and that kind of thing. 406 00:23:47,580 --> 00:23:52,280 And I think as, to name check him again, as James Governor pointed out to me last time 407 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:58,080 I had lunch with him, observability seems to be the way to talk about all this management 408 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,560 and systems management stuff nowadays. So, it's interesting to keep track of the evolving 409 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,620 notion of what that is. And I mean, you know, I think ultimately a lot of observability comes 410 00:24:08,620 --> 00:24:15,500 down to the classic problems of monitoring and log management, which is it's really hard 411 00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:20,700 to get the right data because people don't usually instrument their code. So, you should 412 00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:27,720 instrument your code. You should make it observable. And then, of course, there's the old thing of 413 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,860 like, you know, you want to avoid event, you know, storms and only focus on what actually 414 00:24:31,860 --> 00:24:36,860 matters. And I'm sure there's some more high science and fanciness to it. But yeah, it's 415 00:24:36,860 --> 00:24:40,960 always good to improve the way you do monitoring stuff. And she makes some good points in that 416 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:47,060 interview. So, as mentioned, next week, what is it? December 4th and 5th? I feel like it's three 417 00:24:47,060 --> 00:24:51,520 days. No, it's three. Yeah. Get your date right. Three. Three to fifth. Sending people wrong to the 418 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,460 conference. Yes. Yes. What are you doing? Yeah. No, I think it's four through seven, technically, 419 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,000 with the big stuff happening, five, six, seven. There you go. Don't worry. I have all my travel 420 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,900 and hotel booked. So, my computer will just tell me what to do and I will show up at the right place. 421 00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:10,760 But yes, starting, I guess, on Monday and wrapping up, what was it, Thursday or something? 422 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,140 Yep, Thursday afternoon. We did the smart try to end around lunchtime on Thursday so people flying 423 00:25:17,140 --> 00:25:20,320 East Coast can still catch their flights and everyone doesn't just dribble out throughout 424 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,200 the whole day. So, by the end of the day, there's like six people. You really want to 425 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,700 just have a nice, strong close and not keep people tall. That's good. That's good. And you, 426 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:33,200 I have not curated a list of sessions, but you, I just read it on the plane over here. You came up 427 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,760 with a wonderful list of not only suggested sessions, but you categorized them, which is 428 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:46,060 amazing. That's right. And so, give us some, well, first of all, how would you describe the tracks? 429 00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:49,180 What are the buckets of types of content that people could expect? 430 00:25:49,420 --> 00:25:53,760 Yeah, we're very clear, Peter Humphrey on the team, very clear not to let me use the word tracks 431 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,220 because we treat these as topics. Because tracks sometimes implies like, look, you don't leave 432 00:25:57,220 --> 00:26:02,040 this room. This is a sort of, you just stay in this area if you care about this. Versus like, 433 00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:05,580 there's different topic areas and you're going to mix and match. It's probably semantics, 434 00:26:05,780 --> 00:26:11,700 but let's go with topics. So yeah, the conference has a ton of topics coming, covering things like 435 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:17,240 spring and agile methodology and reactive programming, the case study stuff, cloud native 436 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:23,460 platforms, databases, the whole DevOps-y track, geode, and some of the pivotal cloud cache stuff, 437 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,460 which is great. And then you end up with things like microservices and serverless. So there's 438 00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:31,740 lots of these different focus areas. I'll be shocked if people don't jump between them. 439 00:26:32,220 --> 00:26:36,240 I mean, some people just are just, you know, I guess DevOps heads, maybe yourself. We just won't 440 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,340 leave that room. But for the most part, I expect a lot of people to bounce around. We have, I think 441 00:26:40,340 --> 00:26:47,340 it's over 150 talks. We've got just a crazy list of enterprise customers presenting and speaking and 442 00:26:47,340 --> 00:26:53,420 attending. So I don't know. For me, this is, I'm just excited by the audience. I think that the 443 00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:57,820 program itself is a lot of fun. We sold out the pre-training. So there's a bunch of training on 444 00:26:57,820 --> 00:27:02,000 Monday for, you know, things like Spring Boot and even Steel Toe, the .NET stuff. 445 00:27:02,220 --> 00:27:07,320 Spring Cloud, all these things completely sold out. So people are pumped. It's good to see it. 446 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,040 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, there's, do you have a handle on how many sessions there are? 447 00:27:11,780 --> 00:27:15,020 I think there, yeah, I think there's about 150 breakouts, give or take. 448 00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:15,400 Yeah. 449 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,180 And then we've got, what, three hours of main stage stuff. And so I was responsible for putting 450 00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:24,720 together some of the main stage speakers and ordering and sequencing and that kind of fun stuff. 451 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:31,000 So this team at Pivotal has done a silly good job of figuring out all these logistics. But like the 452 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,740 main stage is a lot of fun. We have folks from Google, Microsoft. We've got customer talks from 453 00:27:35,740 --> 00:27:41,720 like Scotiabank and Boeing and MasterCard and these others. So I just, I'm pumped to see a lot of 454 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,640 customer talks. I made a tactical and maybe it will be a complete miss, but I purposely didn't put 455 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:52,740 Pivotal people on stage much. So Hansi Fakori is going to kick off and Rob Neal make a quick sneak 456 00:27:52,740 --> 00:27:56,900 appearance and Cornelia Davis will jump on stage. But other than that, it's spring engineers and 457 00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:57,300 customers. 458 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:57,880 Yeah. 459 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,180 And I think that's kind of the way it should be. I mean, you know, we don't have to be up 460 00:28:02,180 --> 00:28:07,380 there just announcing stuff or making ourselves feel great. I think it's about highlighting good 461 00:28:07,380 --> 00:28:10,240 stuff that the people in the audience can take home from the conference. 462 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,020 Yeah. I mean, obviously I'm biased to what I pay attention to, but that's, that's the format 463 00:28:14,020 --> 00:28:17,460 I like, right? Cause it's sort of like, I don't know, you can figure out the technology 464 00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:22,480 stuff any day. That's not a problem, but actually getting your, uh, getting as, as my favorite 465 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,300 thing to, to sort of, uh, use an example, getting those 19,000 developers at JP Morgan 466 00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:31,860 chase to improve how they do software. That's, that's the real problem. Right. 467 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,880 Although maybe JPMC doesn't have that problem, but you know, you know what I mean? And so 468 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,300 it's good, I think to hear from, uh, hear from actual people who have been down that path 469 00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:45,660 or, and to be fair, all of them who are currently on that path and hear what, uh, on the one 470 00:28:45,660 --> 00:28:50,400 hand, you know, I mean, first of all, it's good to hear just the straight up, like five 471 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,520 to 10 minute talk about how, uh, things were terrible before and now they're awesome. 472 00:28:55,220 --> 00:28:59,440 And, uh, and cause it's, it's, it's nice to know that like, you know, uh, it's actually 473 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,840 possible at, at, uh, an organization like yours. And then also in the, and sometimes in the shorter 474 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,300 ones, but in the longer talks, especially in the breakout sessions, you get a lot of, um, 475 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:16,200 you get a lot of tips of, of things to do. And I would say not only tips of things to do that you 476 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:22,300 are in tactics that you may not have heard of, but even if they go over the usual thing, uh, like 477 00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:27,860 you should have everyone in one room. Like it's, it's, it's validating to hear over and over again, 478 00:29:27,860 --> 00:29:31,700 that you should actually do this thing. You know, like to go back to my favorite analogy pool, 479 00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:37,240 right? Like when it comes to, uh, to diet, I think the only thing we can all agree on is you should try 480 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,720 not to consume a lot. We don't know if wine is healthy, if coffee is going to kill you, 481 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,360 is butter healthy or not? What's up with fried eggs? Like every, every five or so years the 482 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,860 table gets flipped and everything's opposite, but we can at least, what I always hear over and over 483 00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:57,240 again is don't eat a lot. And so, uh, you know, anyways, so those are the takeaways you can have 484 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:03,280 from that, I think. And, you know, I, I've, uh, so we're not supposed to say, uh, to say track 485 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:09,540 the topic area that, that I, early on I helped curate a little bit. And to be fair by help, 486 00:30:09,540 --> 00:30:13,700 it just means, I think I had three phone calls where I told people what I thought about various 487 00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:19,380 rows in a spreadsheet. Uh, but there's, there's, uh, we, we put together in the DevOps and build 488 00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:24,800 pipeline area. There's, there's some good talks like that from, uh, from people like FedEx and, 489 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,700 and, uh, who else is in there and several other customers going over how they've actually done 490 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:34,800 DevOps and cloud native things. And I've seen a few of these, uh, I think, I think, uh, great 491 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,880 American insurance company is, uh, in there as well. And I've, uh, I've seen and done a little 492 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,600 bit of, uh, messing around with, like collaborating with some of those speakers on them and they'll 493 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,460 be great. I'm, I'm also looking forward to the, uh, not only of those talks, but of all the 494 00:30:49,460 --> 00:30:54,220 talks, the videos that we'll put up sometime afterwards. And those are, I mean, those, that, 495 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,340 that provides a good year of slide content for me. Absolutely. You can just go in there 496 00:30:59,340 --> 00:31:04,140 and, uh, and, and get the exact advice that people say and, uh, start building from it. 497 00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:09,080 So you don't have to, uh, you know, frantically take down notes as you're sitting there in the 498 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,960 room. Yeah. So, I mean, you were kind of asking which ones do you think you have to hit? And 499 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,320 that's the one reason when I wrote the blog post, I kind of thought of who's coming. Cause you 500 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,960 know, for one person, some sort of data talk is awesome for another it's meh. So, you know, 501 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:27,360 when I think about, you know, as much as again, these cloud vendor conferences are a lot of fun, 502 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,200 you know, whether it's reinvent or Microsoft's build or GCP next, I mean, those are all great, 503 00:31:32,260 --> 00:31:36,720 but you're still living in their universe. So, you know, pivotal, at least it gets to have 504 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,420 somewhat of an interesting conference because we're the Switzerland of cloud. I guess we're 505 00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:43,880 just going to make sure that you can run wherever you want. We're not going to have a preference. 506 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,020 So learn about multi-cloud stuff. So there's a number of good talks from the Google folks, 507 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:51,660 from Microsoft folks, from others. And again, it's practical stuff, right? Even our 508 00:31:51,660 --> 00:31:56,420 tracker team explaining how we moved between environments because, you know, most enterprises 509 00:31:56,420 --> 00:32:01,340 think about that too. So some good chances to see multiple cloud technologies, not just 510 00:32:01,340 --> 00:32:06,400 one. But in terms of like developer talks, you know, spring boot two is right around the 511 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,300 corner. So you don't want to miss talks that really explain what's new there. You know, 512 00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:15,220 all this reactive stuff, you know, you and I could have had some people on the podcast to 513 00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:19,300 talk about reactive programming. It's going to be great if you can actually watch people coding 514 00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:23,480 it on stage. And sometimes things click when you watch an application get built and go, 515 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:28,520 okay, I understand why I want to do callbacks and I want to do async stuff, not a bunch of 516 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:34,060 blocking calls. So hitting those. And I will say we just added yesterday, we purposely kept 517 00:32:34,060 --> 00:32:38,220 it off the schedule just for sneaky purposes, but there will be a next version of PCF talk 518 00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:42,660 right after keynotes that I will be doing with a friend Jeffrey Hammond from Forrester kicking 519 00:32:42,660 --> 00:32:45,820 it off. So there'll be an hour right after the keynotes. You of course shouldn't miss that 520 00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:50,060 because you make good choices. So that'll be a good one. 521 00:32:50,060 --> 00:32:52,460 What's, uh, what's, what's Hammond gonna do in that? 522 00:32:52,460 --> 00:32:56,460 Uh, I've got him just doing like a puppet show to start with really just to warm up the crowd. He's 523 00:32:56,460 --> 00:33:00,540 good with marionettes. He's not going to admit it, but he is a pretty adept. 524 00:33:00,540 --> 00:33:06,620 Well, it's that new England vibe that you just pick up in the water there. You know, the Punch and Judy 525 00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:10,540 show just kind of came across the boat changing the marionettes. You get skills. 526 00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:14,780 Yeah. So he's going to warm up, uh, folks with some of the information, some research 527 00:33:14,780 --> 00:33:18,780 he's done around dev productivity and platforms and the likes. That should be great. 528 00:33:18,780 --> 00:33:24,700 Yeah. Yeah. He used to, uh, back when I was on the analyst circuit, he would, he did a good 529 00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:30,300 job opening up with like his most recent developer surveys for various things, which, uh, which are 530 00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:32,860 always fascinating to look at. I've been checking on that a long time. 531 00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:37,500 Yeah. So there's some other developer talks serverless spring. I can't wait for that team's 532 00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:41,980 doing some awesome stuff and serverless and Mark Fisher and team presenting on that on, on Wednesday. 533 00:33:42,620 --> 00:33:46,060 But then, you know, the talks I'm probably going to spend a lot of time in as well, or all those 534 00:33:46,060 --> 00:33:50,140 sort of transformation things that you, you were just talking about. There's, you know, 535 00:33:50,140 --> 00:33:54,780 discover has a good story there. You've got, as you mentioned, a number of ones talking about 536 00:33:54,780 --> 00:33:59,500 CICDs or Liberty mutual others. That's for me, some of the more interesting stuff. Cause that's, 537 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:03,420 that's the first thing that seems to unlock everybody. Like once you figure out how to 538 00:34:03,420 --> 00:34:07,500 start deploying code without 15 tickets. And as you start to automate your pipeline, 539 00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:11,660 everything else changes. So how are these companies like Liberty or all state or others 540 00:34:11,660 --> 00:34:15,900 pulling that stuff off? I think that that's one of the most impactful things you can do if you're 541 00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:20,860 an enterprise trying to figure out how you kickstart things is go to the CICD talks. Cause you're 542 00:34:20,860 --> 00:34:25,260 going to pick up a tip that actually speeds you up. Yeah, no, it's true that I've, I've, 543 00:34:25,260 --> 00:34:33,420 I've noticed recently when talking with large organizations that sometimes you have to painfully 544 00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:39,100 remind them that the whole point of all of this is to actually release the software. And so, and so 545 00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:44,860 making sure that you have that, that kind of a last mile of a, of a pipeline set up and that you're, 546 00:34:44,860 --> 00:34:49,420 you're even doing continuous integration and stuff. It's always good to not only make sure you're doing 547 00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:53,500 that, but learn from others about how they've, they've set that up because clearly there's a, 548 00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:58,300 there's challenges to doing that. And people are happy to share how they got over those challenges. 549 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:02,940 Yeah. And then there were some talks, you know, I was thinking about when you and I were really, 550 00:35:02,940 --> 00:35:06,940 you did all the work as we talked about enterprise architecture over the summer. And we talked about 551 00:35:06,940 --> 00:35:10,380 kind of that, what is that role of the architect? And so I was thinking through like, 552 00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:14,860 what if I'm an architect attending and I'm trying to not even cling to relevance, but I'm trying to make 553 00:35:14,860 --> 00:35:19,820 sure I know the tech my teams are using. I know the new patterns they're using. How do I get this 554 00:35:19,820 --> 00:35:25,340 sort of crash course? And so, you know, there's courses on, or, uh, sessions on how do I warm up 555 00:35:25,340 --> 00:35:29,420 on spring cloud? Like, what is this thing? What are these microservices patterns? You get into all 556 00:35:29,420 --> 00:35:34,700 this sort of domain driven design event sourcing stuff too. So there's some great talks planned. 557 00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:39,340 Kenny Bastani has one on stator events. You know, how do I think of event driven architecture? 558 00:35:39,340 --> 00:35:45,980 Like that's a huge talk. Absolutely attend. And I love Ford is doing a whole, like, I guess they built 559 00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:50,620 this cloud reference application to demonstrate all these patterns that they could do a road show of 560 00:35:50,620 --> 00:35:54,620 and show people. So, I mean, that's a great way. Again, if you're trying to figure out how do you get 561 00:35:54,620 --> 00:36:00,860 a big organization to glom onto the core patterns you want, how did Ford do it? You know, how did they 562 00:36:00,860 --> 00:36:05,020 build and what, what did they build? They're going to go into depth on that. So again, as an architect, 563 00:36:05,020 --> 00:36:09,900 it seems like there's a lot of ways that you can speed up or accelerate or even just digest some of 564 00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:14,460 this new stuff that then you can go evangelize a bit. Yeah. Now there's a lot of, a lot of stories 565 00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:20,140 being flung out there. That's good. I mean, I think, uh, is this the third one we've done or, uh, 566 00:36:20,140 --> 00:36:25,820 this is the third, is the second one that's just been, I think like platform because SpringOne has 567 00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:30,300 been a kind of more of an open source community show for years. Yeah, that's, that's right. I guess, 568 00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:34,860 I guess the first year I was here, we had, uh, the CF summits were the big events and then we had 569 00:36:34,860 --> 00:36:39,100 this one. So yeah, yeah, no, it's a good, uh, I mean, the one last year was really good and this one, 570 00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:45,180 uh, sizing up to be really good content wise as well. So, you know, if you haven't bought tickets yet 571 00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:50,700 and arrange travel, don't listen to the dates that I just told you because I'll be wrong. But if you just 572 00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:57,020 go to SpringOne platform.io, you can, uh, you can sign up for it and, uh, it's, it'll probably be worth your 573 00:36:57,020 --> 00:37:01,260 time to check it out. If you're, uh, if you're working in a large organization and you want to 574 00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:05,260 improve the way you do your software, that's, uh, that's, that's what you'll get at the end of it. 575 00:37:05,260 --> 00:37:09,660 And then, you know, if you can't make it, just, just figure out, I'm sure we'll, we'll throw it 576 00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:14,620 out when we put all the videos up, but all the recordings will be out there and, uh, hopefully 577 00:37:14,620 --> 00:37:21,020 there'll be curation, curiosity-ation, if you will, curation going on throughout the year as, 578 00:37:21,020 --> 00:37:26,140 as we and other people, uh, write up and point out good tidbits that, that were in those. 579 00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:29,900 So then, then in addition to the talks, there's always the ancillary things going on. Like, uh, 580 00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:33,580 before we were recording, we were saying how there's a, uh, I guess it's the second 581 00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:39,660 pivotal analyst day that we're having on Monday, which that'll be fun to, uh, industry analyst day, 582 00:37:39,660 --> 00:37:45,100 I should say, that'll be fun to sit in on and see what goes on in there and, uh, see, see what kind 583 00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:50,060 of, what the analysts ask and which ones show up, what their questions are, and maybe they'll generate 584 00:37:50,060 --> 00:37:54,300 some ephemera as well. And then there's, you know, there's of course like the, uh, the, uh, 585 00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:58,700 get, get some CIO executives together and have them talk with each other sort of stuff, which is also 586 00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:04,940 fun. And, and then you have, um, I think on Monday, well, it is on Monday night. Uh, there's basically 587 00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:10,700 like a kind of like opening community thing with a bunch of lightning talks and some, uh, uh, you know, 588 00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:16,540 lightning talks being like, it's this five minute, uh, five minute thing where you have, uh, 20 slides 589 00:38:16,540 --> 00:38:20,780 that auto advance on their own at 15 seconds. And you give some talk about that. I have a talk that 590 00:38:20,780 --> 00:38:26,620 I'm giving there. And, uh, and then also there's, uh, for the, the bold, there's the, uh, ignite 591 00:38:26,620 --> 00:38:32,700 karaoke where there's, there's five slides that advance every one minute. So I'll let you do the math 592 00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:37,020 to figure out how long it is. And you just come up with a talk as you're seeing them for the first time. 593 00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:40,940 Yeah. Now that, that, that video of you doing that is still one of my favorite things I've 594 00:38:40,940 --> 00:38:46,220 watched this year. It was just such, such the best. So yeah, to encourage people, even if you're 595 00:38:46,220 --> 00:38:50,540 terrified of doing it yourself, you should come watch other people figure out how to answer questions 596 00:38:50,540 --> 00:38:54,540 about a clown on a slide or things like that. Yes. And we'll, we'll see if they all get used, 597 00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:59,500 but I made, I made 10 of the slide decks for this ignite karaoke thing. So it'll be, 598 00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:03,500 did you? That's the first time I've done that. So it'll be a good learning experience for me 599 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:06,860 to see if I'm especially looking forward if it gets used to the one 600 00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:10,140 about dealing with millennials. See how that pans out. 601 00:39:10,140 --> 00:39:14,060 Uh, it's going to be great. Yeah. So that, that'll be a lot of fun as well. 602 00:39:14,060 --> 00:39:18,460 Yeah. Yeah. Well, so that's, uh, that's, do you have any other thing that you want to, uh, 603 00:39:18,460 --> 00:39:21,980 sort of preview about what's going on there? I mean, I guess, I guess it, you know, it's worth 604 00:39:21,980 --> 00:39:26,700 pointing out, uh, despite YouTube videos being uploaded, what we can upload is all the people 605 00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:32,460 like hanging out with each other down there in, uh, downtown San Francisco and the aforementioned, 606 00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:37,580 uh, Moscone West. There's a Boca de Beppo down the street. If you want to book the Pope table, 607 00:39:37,580 --> 00:39:42,620 I don't know if you've been there for a while. I, I have not. Uh, but you know, it'll, it'll be really 608 00:39:42,620 --> 00:39:47,420 fun to hang out with people, uh, hopefully not too early in the morning, but, uh, throughout the day 609 00:39:47,420 --> 00:39:52,860 and just talk with them and, uh, get, get, get all sorts of input about what they're going on that they, 610 00:39:52,860 --> 00:39:57,340 they would talk about publicly or not otherwise, and just meet a bunch of new people to, uh, 611 00:39:57,340 --> 00:40:00,860 start putting on the, the roster of interesting folks to talk with. 612 00:40:01,420 --> 00:40:05,260 Yeah. The hallway track is always the best at shows like this, isn't it? I mean, it's the, 613 00:40:05,260 --> 00:40:09,740 it's that chance to, to kind of meet some folks and, you know, all the pivotal heavy hitters, 614 00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:13,820 or most of them are going to be there. So if you ever want to tackle Josh long and get a selfie or, 615 00:40:13,820 --> 00:40:17,900 you know, have that Coté time, like everyone's going to be in one place, which is awesome. 616 00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:22,620 So I think for a lot of folks, we are almost sold out ridiculously. We're significantly larger than 617 00:40:22,620 --> 00:40:27,340 last year as a conference. We've sold out sponsorships. Like this is a big, big fun thing. 618 00:40:27,340 --> 00:40:31,420 There is still time to buy tickets, but we were just going through in Slack today and there's, 619 00:40:31,420 --> 00:40:36,380 there's not much room left. So it's, uh, even like physically, like we could, we're already 620 00:40:36,380 --> 00:40:40,540 overflowing in the, uh, the keynote hall and stuff like that. What a great problem to have. 621 00:40:40,540 --> 00:40:44,460 So you still have time to buy tickets. It's definitely worth being in person just for the, 622 00:40:44,460 --> 00:40:47,980 the kind of conversations. And, and let's be honest, I don't know about you Coté, but I have 623 00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:52,380 always promised I would go watch conference material after, and I never spend actually eight 624 00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:57,180 hours in my chair watching it. I ended up all tabbing to 50 other things. I'm not absorbing it 625 00:40:57,180 --> 00:41:02,700 at nearly the rate of sitting in a room thinking about it, kind of just fermenting this information. 626 00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:06,060 So, you know, in person's always beats watching replays. 627 00:41:06,060 --> 00:41:10,300 No, I think, I think that's definitely the case. It's hard to, uh, hard to make yourself pay attention 628 00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:13,900 to that, you know, and then, and then of course, as you mentioned, there will be the, uh, what do we 629 00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:18,700 call it? I bet we don't call it an expo or a booth floor, but what's, what's the area with the, uh, 630 00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:23,980 with the, with the, the, the sponsors? Yeah. So we've got this, you know, kind of crazy sponsor 631 00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:28,620 list again. I mean, what, I don't know about you and maybe I'm just living in hyperbole land right 632 00:41:28,620 --> 00:41:33,420 now, but I mean, I look, is there a conference that, you know, Google, Microsoft, VMware, Oracle, 633 00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:39,180 Dell, you know, virtue stream, all these companies sponsor together like that. That's a weird show. 634 00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:43,500 And you've got, you know, Rackspace, Solace, Solstice, you know, HCL, Capgemini, Cognizant, 635 00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:47,660 Accenture, all these sorts of consultancies, software companies. And a lot of them have 636 00:41:47,660 --> 00:41:51,980 boots. A lot of them have some really wicked demos they've put together for their boots. And 637 00:41:51,980 --> 00:41:55,740 there's even going to be a couple of surprises, uh, for some of the vendors who are bringing, 638 00:41:56,220 --> 00:42:00,140 bringing some, some pretty cool stuff on site. So it's definitely always fun to walk that 639 00:42:00,140 --> 00:42:04,460 floor and just get a sense for what are people building. And, you know, you still have companies like 640 00:42:04,460 --> 00:42:09,100 Comcast and, and others, all state who are also sponsors and you say, what in the world are they 641 00:42:09,100 --> 00:42:14,060 going to do there? Hey, I guess come find out why customers also set up booths at a conference like 642 00:42:14,060 --> 00:42:18,700 this. Yeah. Yeah. You know, maybe we should either, either with you or someone else, we should figure, 643 00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:24,300 I used to do this at South by Southwest for a few years and, uh, we would go around and do the, uh, 644 00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:30,060 the booth swag report and do some commentary on, on what the swag was, the good, the bad, things like 645 00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:34,300 that. And it makes for a fun little video requires a little bit of editing. 646 00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:40,540 But I recently been using the, uh, the iMovie, very good editing tool. So I'll have to find some 647 00:42:40,540 --> 00:42:45,500 time to, and some cohort to go around and do that. Uh, that would be enjoyable. That probably won't 648 00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:48,940 happen, but it's a good, I like this challenge. So if you're one of these vendors with a booth, 649 00:42:48,940 --> 00:42:53,900 it's time to step it up and do the mesh t-shirts or, you know, whatever you think you were missing. 650 00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:55,820 Yeah. You need to bring it all in this time. 651 00:42:55,820 --> 00:43:00,860 Like I'm looking at a piece of swag I got recently. I'm sure you've seen this, uh, Richard, you get the, uh, 652 00:43:00,860 --> 00:43:07,660 it's this little multi-wire charger thing that has, uh, the two types of USB, I guess, 653 00:43:07,660 --> 00:43:13,180 AB, I don't know about C, the two types of USB on it. And it has a lightning cord. And of course, 654 00:43:13,180 --> 00:43:19,900 like the big USB thing. And then inexplicably, it has like that really old, uh, iPhone charger. 655 00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:25,100 You remember the, the, the very long one. And so I've, I've seen some of them where they don't 656 00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:28,700 have that, but I think that's, you know, that would be a question you would ask people is like, 657 00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:32,540 do you really think that people are going to use this? Like, why, why do you have this 658 00:43:32,540 --> 00:43:36,220 extra thing on here? And then they just kind of look at you confused and you edit that, 659 00:43:36,220 --> 00:43:41,820 the rest of it out. That's, that makes for good, good TV. Anyhow, this has been, uh, 660 00:43:41,820 --> 00:43:46,460 another Pivotal Conversations episode. If you want to get the most recent, uh, episodes, 661 00:43:46,460 --> 00:43:52,140 look at the back catalog and everything, you can go to soundcloud.com/pivotalconversations. 662 00:43:52,140 --> 00:43:57,660 Uh, we've got everything there, including a link to the RSS feed and the place we post our show notes, 663 00:43:57,660 --> 00:44:03,500 which is at pivotal.io/podcast. And we usually get those, uh, up every Thursday or so. You can find 664 00:44:03,500 --> 00:44:07,820 the links to the, um, the things that we've mentioned and the accurate date for the conference 665 00:44:07,820 --> 00:44:12,940 next week. Uh, there's also, I'll also put a discount code there, uh, that you can use to get $200 666 00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:18,700 off. I think still, if you haven't registered yet. Um, but, uh, with that, we'll see everyone next time. 667 00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:19,340 Bye-bye.