1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,360 Well, it's sweater weather down here in Austin. 2 00:00:02,580 --> 00:00:04,520 You know, I always like to have a good amount of weather talk. 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,060 But here's my question for y'all who live up there in Rainland. 4 00:00:08,060 --> 00:00:12,780 Now, tactically, is it wise to wear a wool sweater? 5 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:16,440 Are you best done by wearing like your rain stuff all the time? 6 00:00:16,540 --> 00:00:21,480 Because, you know, I do like eating lamb and I don't really mind a wet wool sweater smell, 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:22,940 especially if I'm kind of hungry. 8 00:00:23,060 --> 00:00:25,760 But I don't know if that's what you want to have hanging around you all the time. 9 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,960 Like what's the, do you wear sweaters up there? 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,880 We do. 11 00:00:31,060 --> 00:00:34,840 I typically do put a jacket on top just to be safe up here. 12 00:00:35,140 --> 00:00:35,800 You call them slickers? 13 00:00:36,020 --> 00:00:36,580 Something slick. 14 00:00:36,700 --> 00:00:37,540 No, I'm not 12. 15 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:38,800 I don't call them a slicker. 16 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:40,840 That's right. 17 00:00:41,060 --> 00:00:44,680 You're not 12 or 87, so you don't call them slickers. 18 00:00:45,260 --> 00:00:45,740 Right. 19 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:48,720 That's fair. 20 00:00:49,100 --> 00:00:50,040 How about yourself, Jared? 21 00:00:50,380 --> 00:00:51,200 Big sweater fan? 22 00:00:51,780 --> 00:00:54,240 It's really about the altitude. 23 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:59,100 When you're at sea level, for me, sweaters are a no-go because you get all the rain. 24 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:03,980 But when you're up in the mountains and it's snowy and a better chance of being clear, 25 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:05,900 then you're talking sweater mania. 26 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:06,500 Yeah. 27 00:01:06,780 --> 00:01:06,960 Yeah. 28 00:01:07,780 --> 00:01:08,000 Yeah. 29 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,560 It seems like a good layer to have along with a base layer. 30 00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:15,460 I don't really, being a lifelong resident of Austin, I don't know this whole layering theory, 31 00:01:15,940 --> 00:01:17,640 but it sounds like something I could get into. 32 00:01:17,940 --> 00:01:18,480 I like it. 33 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:19,260 It's got a system. 34 00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:23,480 Well, so we thought we'd have you on, Jared, once again. 35 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:25,860 We have a new version of Pivotal Cloud Foundry. 36 00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:28,220 I guess it's a 1.12. 37 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,180 Previous version must have been 1.11, if I remember how arithmetic works. 38 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,640 You ever have someone remind you that when you say the word math, you often mean arithmetic? 39 00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:40,180 Those are elitists. 40 00:01:40,420 --> 00:01:40,620 Yeah. 41 00:01:40,620 --> 00:01:42,080 We don't really engage with them. 42 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:42,540 Yeah. 43 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:46,220 Our friends across the pond say maths. 44 00:01:46,580 --> 00:01:47,360 Oh, maths. 45 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:48,020 Yes. 46 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:52,280 They like to cover the whole panoply of the numbers-oriented sciences. 47 00:01:52,660 --> 00:01:55,300 They don't want to limit themselves, which is, that's fine. 48 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:56,040 That's good stuff. 49 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,580 Anyways, yeah, so we thought we'd have you on to go over what's in the new release. 50 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,000 As always, there's a bevy of excitement there. 51 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,860 But why don't you give yourself a brief, you know, do a brief introduction of yourself, 52 00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:12,680 and then we'll get on to a few little news items and then jump into the 1.12 release. 53 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:15,060 Yeah, I'm Jared Ruckel. 54 00:02:15,140 --> 00:02:19,560 I work on the product team here at Pivotal, based out of, well, sunny Seattle today. 55 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:20,820 That's right. 56 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,660 Sweater country. 57 00:02:24,180 --> 00:02:31,720 So, I think the biggest, other than me writing a register column, the biggest news that's 58 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,840 happened, I think, I don't know, across the last week, is that our friends over at Docker, 59 00:02:36,420 --> 00:02:42,720 just like everyone else except maybe a notable company up in sweater country there, are building 60 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,860 Kubernetes into their overall platform. 61 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,360 And I think it's similar to us, right? 62 00:02:49,460 --> 00:02:51,900 Like, it's not GA at the moment. 63 00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:56,920 In the previous episode, if you recall, we talked with, about, but we talked about Pivotal 64 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:03,320 Container Services with, I was noticing Cornelia doesn't say Cornelia, and now I've forgotten 65 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,220 how she subtly, how does she subtly say her name different? 66 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:07,800 She says a Cornelia. 67 00:03:08,060 --> 00:03:08,460 Cornelia. 68 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:12,140 Which I have tried to focus on being good, because people don't like their name pronounced 69 00:03:12,140 --> 00:03:12,460 incorrectly. 70 00:03:12,740 --> 00:03:13,100 Yes. 71 00:03:13,180 --> 00:03:17,400 Someone with a funny name like me, I'm always trying to be true to how people want their name 72 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,120 pronounced, but so Cornelia went over Pivotal Container Services. 73 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:28,020 And I think, I think if you were to really like smudge down the, the burger diagram, it 74 00:03:28,020 --> 00:03:29,200 kind of looks similar. 75 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,420 But it is, I think, I think it's, I think it's, I don't want to use the coffin metaphor. 76 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:41,840 It's almost the, the last straw on the, the, the, the kid's straw Eiffel Tower that's been 77 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:47,620 constructed that Kubernetes seems to be taking over, if you will, in, in this space. 78 00:03:47,740 --> 00:03:50,180 So that was, that was a fun little news item there. 79 00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:51,180 Yeah. 80 00:03:51,260 --> 00:03:55,600 And then hot off the press from like an hour ago, Microsoft announced the Microsoft or the 81 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,940 Azure Container Service with a K, which is now managed Kubernetes as well. 82 00:04:00,060 --> 00:04:02,840 So it's, everybody gets a Kubernetes. 83 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:03,660 Yeah. 84 00:04:04,060 --> 00:04:04,880 Everyone's into it. 85 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,640 So, I mean, as I forget if we said this last episode, but I'm, I'm definitely eager to see 86 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:15,220 over the next year or so what, what people, what people make of that, what, what, what folks 87 00:04:15,220 --> 00:04:17,580 often enterprise land end up doing with it? 88 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,520 Cause it certainly comes up all the time. 89 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,060 So that, that'll be encouraging. 90 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,400 And, and then as always, well, maybe not as always, but as you would expect on my other 91 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,400 non-pivotal podcast, Software Defined Talk. 92 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,400 I think last week we, we talked about this at length as well. 93 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:34,920 If you want to dive into that some more. 94 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,020 And then, and then there's been a, a bevy of IPOs going on. 95 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:44,140 You know, let me just parenthetically say, if you follow one of my, one of my colleagues 96 00:04:44,140 --> 00:04:49,180 over at four or five, one research Brennan, you, you know, every quarter, it seems like 97 00:04:49,180 --> 00:04:52,400 the IPO market has either melted down or is reinvigorating. 98 00:04:52,580 --> 00:04:56,480 So it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a whip flash thing going on according to his 99 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:56,800 coverage. 100 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,200 But at the moment there's some exciting stuff going on there. 101 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:02,200 There is. 102 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:02,600 Yeah. 103 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,820 You've got what MongoDB had a great IPO. 104 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,240 They went, they ended the day above their target price. 105 00:05:08,420 --> 00:05:12,780 And I think for, there's only a handful of this kind of pure play open source companies 106 00:05:12,780 --> 00:05:15,660 themselves and Red Hat and Cloudera and Hortonworks. 107 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,080 And so, I mean, it's a good benchmark for how does the market see some of these open source 108 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,560 technologies, whether you love MongoDB, it's a database or not. 109 00:05:23,860 --> 00:05:28,180 I think we still root for kind of things in this kind of cloudy tech software and do a good 110 00:05:28,180 --> 00:05:28,440 job. 111 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,500 So they seem to be well-received. 112 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,740 SendGrid, I guess, announced they're doing an IPO. 113 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,760 They send, it was like a trillion email messages, either it's a month or some ridiculous amount. 114 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,040 So kind of plumbing in the cloud, but a lot of people depend on that. 115 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:46,420 And then Stitch Fix, which really does clothing kind of, I don't know, it's not Netflix for 116 00:05:46,420 --> 00:05:50,180 clothing, but kind of an idea of you give your style and they send you clothes, but they're 117 00:05:50,180 --> 00:05:50,840 very tech driven. 118 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,900 And so they have some great people who speak at conferences and the like. 119 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,280 So always encouraging to see companies like that powered by tech delivering stuff in new 120 00:05:58,280 --> 00:05:59,400 ways, go public. 121 00:05:59,920 --> 00:05:59,940 Yeah. 122 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:00,300 Yeah. 123 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,900 And I think from a practical perspective, I mean, for those followers of tech who live that 124 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:08,380 exciting lifestyle, like it's always fun to see this stuff. 125 00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:15,860 But I mean, I was trying to once again, finish up some enterprise architecture writing, which 126 00:06:15,860 --> 00:06:18,000 you know, good luck to me with that windmill. 127 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:25,720 But, you know, in looking at new technologies to adopt, to use, it's always nice to have 128 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,740 a certain amount of stability behind the companies that you're doing. 129 00:06:28,820 --> 00:06:33,500 And definitely being public is a good benchmark, or I shouldn't say benchmark milestone. 130 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:36,600 I get my metaphors confused for things like that. 131 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:43,900 And then conversely, I think this is a bit of a stretch, but still like nowadays when companies, 132 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,640 pretty much all the customers and companies and organizations we work with are looking to figure 133 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:54,400 out how to use software as like a core business process, it's good to get some baselining of 134 00:06:54,400 --> 00:07:00,900 how expensive that is at first, how much money needs to be spent to innovate a technology and 135 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:04,740 what your revenues versus profits and things like that are. 136 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,100 And so if you're interested in that level of detail, it's kind of instructive to look 137 00:07:09,100 --> 00:07:14,060 at comparables of software companies that are more or less like single product or have 138 00:07:14,060 --> 00:07:15,160 a small amount of products. 139 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,540 And you can get a sense of, you know, it's a little weird because they've got sales and 140 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,620 marketing and what do they call it, SG&A or something. 141 00:07:21,780 --> 00:07:23,480 I get all my acronyms mixed up. 142 00:07:23,980 --> 00:07:27,220 But so, but if you pull that out, you kind of get a rough sense of the investment and the 143 00:07:27,220 --> 00:07:31,980 amount of time it takes to build up viable products, which I think is valuable to look 144 00:07:31,980 --> 00:07:32,200 at. 145 00:07:32,620 --> 00:07:35,640 Plus, you know, IPOs, who doesn't love that? 146 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:37,420 So it's very exciting. 147 00:07:37,820 --> 00:07:43,320 So then before we get to the PCF 1.12, I just wanted to high post a little bit of stuff that 148 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,260 I've done recently that I think is relevant. 149 00:07:45,460 --> 00:07:51,840 So about every year, for various reasons, not to mention that they're in Austin, the great 150 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,380 folks over at SolarWinds, they have something called a thwack camp because they're funny. 151 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:04,800 And I was on a video panel with Nathan Harvey from Chef and another person whose name I should 152 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,820 remember, but I don't because I'm bad at that. 153 00:08:08,220 --> 00:08:13,540 But they were both and we were on a panel about what monitoring in DevOps, which is something 154 00:08:13,540 --> 00:08:15,980 that SolarWinds cares about, of course. 155 00:08:16,220 --> 00:08:23,040 And yeah, it was a good opportunity to just talk about DevOps and use of it in organizations 156 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:23,500 broadly. 157 00:08:24,140 --> 00:08:25,340 So there's that panel. 158 00:08:25,820 --> 00:08:28,820 And man, they use like super high definition stuff. 159 00:08:29,060 --> 00:08:31,060 So it's a good thing I had a haircut that day. 160 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,200 Like I had to look at there's, if you look at the cover art, just as a little how these 161 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,960 things get made, the photographer asked us to look like we were talking. 162 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,640 So I was just gesticulating mildly and everyone was looking at me as if I was saying something 163 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:44,960 good. 164 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,000 But I think I was just telling them what I had for breakfast. 165 00:08:47,460 --> 00:08:50,880 So that's, that's how the sausage, the breakfast sausage gets made. 166 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,220 Yeah, that's a, that's a good looking picture. 167 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:54,580 Yeah, I can almost see your thoughts. 168 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:55,480 That's right. 169 00:08:55,660 --> 00:08:56,460 Very good definition. 170 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,320 I, I, I, I dressed up in my fancy big boy shirt, like I had a, like I have a real job. 171 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,320 So it was a good, it was a good, uh, pregame for Halloween this year to draw. 172 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:07,440 No sweater though. 173 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,720 No, no, this was, this was, they actually, they actually filmed this ahead of time. 174 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,200 Like, wow, now a couple months ago. 175 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:16,740 So, uh, definitely not sweater time down here in Austin. 176 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:23,540 And then also, uh, my, uh, my register column for October came out on the topic of, uh, basically, 177 00:09:23,540 --> 00:09:26,940 hey, can we get the skills we need for our, uh, our technical people? 178 00:09:26,940 --> 00:09:32,500 And, um, I, I, I, when the, the cloud foundry foundation came out with a study about this 179 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:36,980 a long time ago, I sort of, uh, chucked it as a way as something to write about. 180 00:09:36,980 --> 00:09:41,240 And, uh, it was good to kind of go out and take a survey of what people are recommending. 181 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,900 And I had done a, uh, uh, a panel discussion at DevOps stays Kansas city with some people 182 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:46,800 who commented on this. 183 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,660 So it's sort of the, uh, as, as our buddy, Andrew Clay Schaefer would say, there is no 184 00:09:51,660 --> 00:09:52,460 talent shortage. 185 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:57,660 There's just, uh, your inability to, to scope correctly, which hopefully that's true. 186 00:09:58,140 --> 00:10:00,220 We, we, we should make it true if not. 187 00:10:00,220 --> 00:10:03,500 So those are two, uh, little items to, uh, to point out. 188 00:10:04,100 --> 00:10:05,100 Yeah, it was a good piece. 189 00:10:05,220 --> 00:10:06,220 Good comments as always. 190 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:06,880 Yeah. 191 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,560 I, I, I only read the first, uh, 60 or so, and then I stopped looking just, just, uh, just 192 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:12,440 to save my own sanity. 193 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,880 So Jared, back to you. 194 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,820 We got, uh, we got a, when, when did this new version of pivotal cloud foundry come out? 195 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,940 Uh, came out in the middle of September. 196 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,660 So we seem to seem to hit these things in a pretty regular cadence. 197 00:10:25,660 --> 00:10:29,700 Now every three months, there's a dot release of pivotal cloud foundry. 198 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:33,920 And of course, in between then there's, uh, a bunch of other things that we've, that 199 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,500 we've shipped on the commercial front and as the open source front. 200 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:41,500 So, uh, Richard, you had a nice post that talked about all the stuff that, that we ship 201 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:44,520 and how, uh, big companies frankly should really be, uh, shipping us. 202 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:46,360 Great. 203 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:47,160 Yeah. 204 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,140 And, and it seems like if I were, if I were to make some broad categorizations to, to, 205 00:10:52,300 --> 00:10:55,780 to, as they used to say, themes of this release, things in it. 206 00:10:55,780 --> 00:11:03,280 So first of all, uh, there, there's the, the, uh, the virtuous eternal quest of security, 207 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:03,920 right? 208 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,880 So there's, there's, there's better, better cred hub integration. 209 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:13,280 And, and to some extent hooking it up to the, um, the continuous delivery, um, system we have 210 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:18,320 concourse so that you can do patches, uh, faster, you know, fit into our, uh, our triple 211 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,080 R thing of a good way to make sure you don't have malware running is to blow it away and 212 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:23,760 reinstall that. 213 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,580 And then the next area is, uh, speaking of sweater country, there's, there's a fair amount 214 00:11:28,580 --> 00:11:33,560 of, um, uh, dot net sort of Microsofty world, uh, enablement in there. 215 00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:37,700 And then, I don't know, there's the usual grab bag of miscellaneous things. 216 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,360 There's always a fair amount of miscellaneous stuff, but, um, I don't know. 217 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,940 I mean, I mean, do you, how, how would you categorize the, uh, the buckets of, of functionality 218 00:11:47,940 --> 00:11:48,820 in this version? 219 00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:55,640 And we always talk about in our R and D organization, the themes of investment, which is maybe a fancy 220 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,340 way of saying what we, uh, what we like to prioritize. 221 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,640 So, yeah, like you, like you mentioned, uh, we have, you know, first class windows and 222 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:03,560 dot net support. 223 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:08,500 Um, so some of these are, uh, really attuned to that particular, you know, objective. 224 00:12:08,980 --> 00:12:14,780 And then the, the grab bag of security compliance stuff is really about this aspirational secure 225 00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:16,820 by default type of goal that we have. 226 00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:21,040 Um, and then there's a handful of other things, you know, the best platform for spring and 227 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:26,000 then the usual developer productivity operator efficiency, you know, kinds of messages we 228 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:26,840 like to talk about. 229 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:31,100 And these themes are really important to, you know, orientating, you know, our, our customers 230 00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:33,740 around what's, what we feel is important. 231 00:12:33,820 --> 00:12:37,280 And so they know what's important to them is also in the mix there. 232 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,660 And that just creates a really nice kind of your conversation for where we're investing 233 00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:45,620 in what we want to prioritize and how that jibes with the customer universe. 234 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:48,760 And, and remind us what, uh, cred hub is again. 235 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:50,340 Yeah. 236 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:50,860 Cred hub. 237 00:12:50,980 --> 00:12:56,720 It's, uh, really how, you know, uh, secrets are, uh, managed inside of cloud foundry. 238 00:12:56,980 --> 00:12:59,100 And so you think, what are secrets? 239 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:07,400 Well, secrets are your, uh, your passwords, certificates, SSH keys, RSA keys, arbitrary values 240 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,420 like, you know, strings and JSON blobs, anything that is more or less a secret. 241 00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:14,120 So it's, it's not just the, uh, login and password stuff. 242 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,960 There's a whole lot of other, um, really, uh, uh, really important information, sensitive 243 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,460 information that you don't want to get in the hands of bad actors. 244 00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:27,120 And so cred hub is a centralized way that that's, that's managed inside of cloud foundry. 245 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:27,580 Yeah. 246 00:13:27,660 --> 00:13:32,920 And, and, and, and I, my, my understanding, uh, and I say that because, you know, as I'm 247 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:38,360 fond of saying, I just make slides, but my understanding is like in doing things in a, in a highly automated 248 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:43,900 cloud, if not cloud native way, secrets management is a particularly difficult problem because, 249 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:48,700 you know, if you're always bringing up and down, you know, not only VMs and containers and things 250 00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:54,960 like that, but new services and deploying and reconfiguring your networking, um, they have 251 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,820 the same sort of password and credential issues that they've always had. 252 00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:04,480 So you need some way of automating that you can't manually do things, uh, like you could 253 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:05,340 in a slow past. 254 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,620 So it's a, it's a, it's a pretty important thing to have bundled into a cloud platform 255 00:14:09,620 --> 00:14:10,220 like this. 256 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:11,200 Yeah. 257 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:16,160 For, for all the automation that we've seen with infrastructure and applications and 258 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,100 software, you know, and even the automated patching that you alluded to with concourse, how do 259 00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:25,660 you automatically, you know, make sure that your, all of your secrets are securely stored 260 00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:33,120 and then you somehow reduce the value of a leaked secret, um, by rotating that in an automated 261 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:33,920 type of fashion. 262 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:39,080 So it's, it's really something that hasn't been, um, you know, really widely done in the 263 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:39,400 industry. 264 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,460 So I think there's some of the thought leadering as we like to do here at pivotal with the way 265 00:14:43,460 --> 00:14:47,180 that we've thought about, you know, cred hub, because as you mentioned, there's, you know, 266 00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:51,880 dozens of credentials in these automated systems that, you know, we're all using to store and 267 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,600 house, you know, customer data. 268 00:14:54,260 --> 00:14:57,760 And so just because a human isn't interacting with those credentials doesn't mean that, you 269 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:58,960 know, there's, there's not a risk there. 270 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,360 Um, you know, we don't have these, you know, passwords on post-it notes on, uh, on your monitor 271 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,420 for these, you know, machine to machine interactions, but they're definitely there and vulnerable 272 00:15:07,420 --> 00:15:09,220 to get sniped by bad actors. 273 00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:13,360 So, um, there's a lot more passwords than, than one might think, um, with all these cloud 274 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:14,200 native systems there. 275 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:18,180 So it's, uh, it's a really interesting, you know, challenge and definitely a, uh, a big 276 00:15:18,180 --> 00:15:21,580 opportunity, um, cause we've all seen, you know, the, the same company's name, you know, 277 00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:25,860 splashed in the, all over the business press for about, you know, six weeks now about how 278 00:15:25,860 --> 00:15:29,960 to try and combat all this, you know, infosec, um, you know, threats that are out there. 279 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:31,440 Yeah. 280 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,940 So there was also some other security things, Jared, I know that you were, you know, credit 281 00:15:35,940 --> 00:15:40,660 hub stuff was great, but then we almost moved up to the kind of application ready security 282 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:42,060 stuff with the MTLS stuff, right? 283 00:15:42,060 --> 00:15:45,640 With containers, can you guys describe what some of the application centric things that 284 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:46,880 we, we added in this release? 285 00:15:47,580 --> 00:15:52,420 Yeah, there's a, uh, I guess, you know, going down a tick into the secure by default, you 286 00:15:52,420 --> 00:15:57,680 know, this, there's this idea of, of TLS that's, you know, making its way into the, into 287 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,960 the platform, up into the application stack and, um, even this idea of, of mutual TLS. 288 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:08,360 And the idea there is that, you know, the, the, the server that's running the application 289 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:14,940 has a, as a, as a, as a certificate and the client also has a certificate and you want to 290 00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:19,920 have this trusted communication where the client is talking to the right server, the server's 291 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,740 talking to the right clients, both the client and server know who each other are, and that's 292 00:16:24,740 --> 00:16:30,260 done in a, you know, very automated way where the certificates are deemed to be valid, um, 293 00:16:30,260 --> 00:16:32,580 before a, a transaction can take place. 294 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,800 And so you're starting to see this, uh, you happen in, in more and more parts of the, of 295 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,420 the platform between components, um, up to containers where you've got these, you know, 296 00:16:41,420 --> 00:16:45,380 credentials, you've got these, you know, secrets, you've got these certificates that are also 297 00:16:45,380 --> 00:16:47,020 getting rapidly, you know, rotated. 298 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:52,780 Um, so it's just this, this, you know, greater level of, of assurance and peace of mind that, 299 00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:55,780 you know, the, the client is who it says it is. 300 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,100 It's typically a phone or another, another laptop or something. 301 00:16:59,220 --> 00:17:03,480 And then the server, um, and, you know, conduct its business, you know, knowing that that's, 302 00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:04,520 that's actually the case. 303 00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:10,580 And so once you've got this, you know, uh, mutual TLS in more parts of the platform that, 304 00:17:10,580 --> 00:17:15,280 um, opens up a whole lot more, you know, workloads for, you know, the financial industry, 305 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:20,040 the insurance industry, um, to put some of their applications on these cloud native platforms, 306 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:25,140 because this mutual TLS is, uh, you know, uh, sometimes an industry regulation or sometimes 307 00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:27,460 it's just a corporate policy to have, have in play. 308 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,160 So being able to have this end to end, uh, authentication between different, different 309 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,480 components is, um, something that, you know, is, is really valued by a lot of the, a lot 310 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:37,480 of the big companies out there. 311 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:38,320 Yeah. 312 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,820 See, one thing I was geeking out over with that, I think was this idea of actually having 313 00:17:41,820 --> 00:17:44,960 instance credentials that you would use with MTLS. 314 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,600 Uh, so these containers have their own credential that actually rotates all the time, you know, 315 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,180 every, every day by default, but you can configure that so that again, you know, the access to 316 00:17:53,180 --> 00:17:54,660 these containers actually changes. 317 00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:58,980 So, I mean, hopefully again, we see not just system components talking to each other, but, 318 00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:03,380 you know, app to app, container to container, being able to take advantage of constantly changing 319 00:18:03,380 --> 00:18:06,180 credentials is a, is a wild security profile. 320 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:06,960 Yeah. 321 00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:11,720 And I think when it comes to InfoSec, you're only as secure as your weakest link. 322 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,900 If that, you know, if that's already a parable, it holds true. 323 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:20,380 So you can't just be really confident in your security posture and some elements of the system. 324 00:18:20,620 --> 00:18:24,260 You've really got to think about this, you know, end to end, especially with the, 325 00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:29,080 the so-called crown jewel apps of your enterprise with your enterprise data, your customer data, 326 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,320 things like that. 327 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,740 Um, so we see what happens to companies when there's a significant breach out there. 328 00:18:34,220 --> 00:18:34,980 Yeah, absolutely. 329 00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:40,320 So then there were also some, uh, some updates to various services, uh, you know, some of them 330 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,360 just adding a new metrics and things like that. 331 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:47,060 But, but when that caught my eye in particular was, uh, we've got, we've got, uh, fuller, 332 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,800 if you will, or, uh, much more, uh, deep rabbit MQ. 333 00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:56,400 Um, you know, you can, you can basically draw one up on demand now, um, which, um, I don't 334 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,680 know when I go out to, uh, to conferences a lot, that's, I don't know what the pie chart 335 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,900 is, but that comes rabbit comes up a lot. 336 00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:04,780 People are always, uh, very interested. 337 00:19:04,780 --> 00:19:07,600 So, so what are, like, what are the, what's, what are the details on that? 338 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,680 As we say tile, uh, in there. 339 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,060 Yeah, we've seen a really strong interest in customers, you know, just thinking about, 340 00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:19,820 you know, cloud native data and how they do their, their data store with all of their, 341 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:21,020 you know, cloud native applications. 342 00:19:21,620 --> 00:19:26,160 And really, I think the, the secret to doing this well, at least in, in cloud foundry land 343 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,800 is Bosch. 344 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:33,840 So now there are, uh, Bosch releases of a handful of, of data services that are out there, 345 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,840 um, that, uh, that now include rabbit. 346 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,460 And so once you've got a Bosch release of, of rabbit along with, you know, my sequel, 347 00:19:41,460 --> 00:19:46,340 pivotal cloud cash and others, then you can get, you know, on demand, you know, provisioning, 348 00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:51,560 um, of these instances, you can get on demand, um, you know, clusters of these kinds of things. 349 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,460 And so that means that developers get the services that they want immediately with that glorious 350 00:19:56,460 --> 00:20:01,160 self-service model that is really fueled a lot of this, you know, cloud computing, uh, you know, 351 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:07,440 adoption in recent times, um, you're also seeing, uh, uh, operators being able to control the usage 352 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,480 with service plans and figure out, um, you know, how to get the right, you know, resource allocation 353 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,160 for what the developers are looking for. 354 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,180 So it's a way to bring some of these enterprise data services with rabbit in particular for messaging, 355 00:20:19,180 --> 00:20:24,120 um, really into this, you know, speed self-service, you know, kind of, kind of dimension. 356 00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:28,820 Yeah, it's exciting stuff. It's neat that, uh, people can try that out today. 357 00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:33,020 So in the other areas you, uh, you pointed out in the article, we had some follow-up 358 00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:37,760 as well as on Steeltoe in this release. And again, we, we said, we tend to bundle a lot 359 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,720 of things into the release announcement. This work has been going on for a while, 360 00:20:40,780 --> 00:20:43,280 but can you tell us a little bit about Steeltoe and this release? 361 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:50,420 Yeah. So we've seen, uh, really probably the, the, the Java kids have the most fun with all 362 00:20:50,420 --> 00:20:55,300 this microservices stuff going on with, uh, with, uh, the world of spring and some of the things 363 00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:59,240 with, you know, spring boot, you know, spring cloud and spring cloud services taking advantage 364 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,620 of some of these Netflix patterns. Um, but as a lot of the, uh, uh, Steeltoe team at Pivotal 365 00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:09,820 likes to talk about, there's a renaissance for .NET happening as well. And so that means that 366 00:21:09,820 --> 00:21:14,360 this universe universe of open source tooling is sort of finding its way to .NET developers 367 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:19,980 and .NET applications. And so with Steeltoe now, you're seeing some of these, uh, really popular 368 00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:25,140 microservices patterns, um, become, you know, more officially part of the, of the project 369 00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:29,840 with, uh, you know, circuit breaker in particular is probably the, the main highlight, um, with 370 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,260 all the microservices, you're talking to each other in these applications, um, failures are 371 00:21:34,260 --> 00:21:38,420 going to happen. And when they do happen, you should probably protect against that to make 372 00:21:38,420 --> 00:21:42,600 sure that you don't get this cascading effect for all kinds of different, you know, failures 373 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,780 in your application. And, uh, the circuit breaker tooling, um, again, you know, really, really 374 00:21:46,780 --> 00:21:49,540 pioneered by Netflix, um, has been out there and used a lot 375 00:21:49,540 --> 00:21:54,700 by the spring community. And so now there's, um, a .NET port of this, uh, of this pattern. 376 00:21:54,700 --> 00:22:00,820 So as you're doing microservices in .NET, you can take advantage of, um, this capability and 377 00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:05,860 make sure the applications still stay resilient, even if a service who happens to, happens to 378 00:22:05,860 --> 00:22:06,860 fail. 379 00:22:06,860 --> 00:22:13,100 Super cool. Yeah. No, it's exciting stuff. That team's been cranking on some good things. There's 380 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:17,900 some good sample apps there as well. So it's been fun to see so many .NET devs try to jump into this 381 00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:22,360 space and modernize their apps. Yeah. There's even, you know, like with, uh, with Spring Boot, 382 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:27,460 you know, actuator, another, you know, nice, uh, nice tool, um, that gives you metrics about your 383 00:22:27,460 --> 00:22:32,060 applications in the, again, in the world of Java, you can now get that for .NET. So it's, 384 00:22:32,060 --> 00:22:36,000 it's happening with Netflix and then some other areas with, you know, container networking, 385 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,540 um, being able to use some of the config server patterns, you know, from, uh, from HashiCorp 386 00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:44,460 vault. So it really is happening on a, on a number of different fronts, as you mentioned. 387 00:22:44,620 --> 00:22:50,060 And, and so, as I was, uh, mentioning earlier, some of the services had, uh, better metrics added to 388 00:22:50,060 --> 00:22:55,420 them, but I think there was an overall, uh, improvement of, and adding new capabilities to, 389 00:22:55,420 --> 00:23:01,340 uh, PCF metrics. Um, and I think, I think in particular, you know, for, for things like, 390 00:23:01,340 --> 00:23:06,220 uh, Spring Boot and as they say, adding some actuators in there. And so I'm, I'm curious about 391 00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:12,320 that because I've, as, as was pointed out to me, not to, uh, not to, uh, steal his idea too much 392 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,680 or borrow it. But as, as was pointed out to me over, I don't know, some sort of fusiony Indian, 393 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,680 Middle Eastern food restaurant. When I was in a DevOps days, London by James governor, 394 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:27,600 the, uh, observability, that's going to be a big deal. So I think, you know, if, if you take that 395 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:33,160 concept of instrumenting, as we used to say in my day, your, uh, your applications so that they can 396 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,520 be observed, it seems like, uh, when I've been reading up on what PCF metrics is, like it's helping 397 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,280 towards, uh, that trend quite a bit, but what's, what do we have in this release to 398 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:47,320 help out in the, uh, the metrics area? Yeah, it's been a really fascinating, uh, 399 00:23:47,340 --> 00:23:52,540 your team and module to, to watch it's, it's evolution. And as you say, you know, 400 00:23:52,540 --> 00:23:57,540 observability, you know, with, with microservices, you've got all these complicated interactions 401 00:23:57,540 --> 00:24:02,840 happening and it sometimes makes, uh, you know, troubleshooting, you know, metrics, you know, 402 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,500 debugging, you know, logging, all those kinds of operational things. It makes it really a lot 403 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:12,560 harder, um, when you are doing, you know, microservices. Uh, but of course the velocity 404 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,560 you get with microservices makes it well worth the trade-off. So you just have to think about this 405 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,560 observability stuff, you know, a little bit differently. And so there's been a whole universe 406 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,340 of tools that have come out to help you, you know, do that, you know, things like Zipkin for 407 00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:31,140 distributed tracing and metrics has included things like that for, uh, for cloud foundry apps. And in 408 00:24:31,140 --> 00:24:36,540 this one, uh, I think the metrics team, you know, goes a little bit further and, um, really gives a 409 00:24:36,540 --> 00:24:41,960 nice benefit to, to spring boot developers where all these actuator metrics for your spring boot apps 410 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:48,840 are now automatically populated and pass through into, into, into PCF metrics. So there's a really nice 411 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,860 set of spring metrics that you get right out of the box, um, that just works as, uh, as we like to say 412 00:24:53,860 --> 00:24:58,520 inside of your PCF metrics. So you can do some really cool things like building custom dashboards 413 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:04,040 for how your applications are going. And it's just all meant to be this idea of how can you, you know, 414 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:09,260 quickly troubleshoot and debug your microservices where you don't have people inside your organization 415 00:25:09,260 --> 00:25:14,700 that understand, you know, the holistic system end to end, and you've got all kinds of dependencies that 416 00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:19,260 are changing, you know, all the time. So really a nice lift for, for spring devs out of the box to 417 00:25:19,260 --> 00:25:24,300 get some of these, you know, different, different capabilities. And, you know, I, as, as, as I'm 418 00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:29,340 perhaps annoyingly fond of, uh, reminding people, I used to work on this stuff and on systems 419 00:25:29,340 --> 00:25:34,700 management things. And, um, I think, I think, I think one of the more interesting angles on this, I mean, 420 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:39,180 I, I, I, at least for me, I think one of the major themes we have with how, how 421 00:25:39,180 --> 00:25:43,820 pivotal cloud foundry helps organizations is the larger the organization, the more you 422 00:25:43,820 --> 00:25:49,900 standardize and centralize what you're doing, the easier it will be to scale, uh, all the positive 423 00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:54,540 good stuff, right. To, you know, instead of having a bunch of people, uh, doing things differently, 424 00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:59,340 or having a bunch of people do things, a bunch of different ways, having different ways of managing 425 00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:05,260 and gathering your metrics. If you can standardize on that as much as possible, you eliminate that part 426 00:26:05,260 --> 00:26:10,780 of, uh, the process and you can focus on the higher value thing. So I think overall, like with having, 427 00:26:10,780 --> 00:26:16,780 having a, uh, standard plane of metrics and how you instrument and how you gather them is, uh, 428 00:26:16,780 --> 00:26:22,700 extremely useful for adding in the, uh, that, uh, I don't know that efficiency and scaling things up. 429 00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:28,860 And then of course you can always use a combination of, I don't know, floods and sinks and draining to 430 00:26:28,860 --> 00:26:33,020 put it in whatever your favorite, your favorite systems management tools are and screw it all 431 00:26:33,020 --> 00:26:38,380 up by going crazy heterogeneous, if that's your choice. Uh, but, and, and in fact, like, you know, 432 00:26:38,380 --> 00:26:42,460 we provide a good baseline of this and for, for much more detailed things, it's good to, uh, 433 00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:47,660 strap on some of our partners things, which is totally fine, but it's, it's, it's always nice to see it at 434 00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:52,460 various layers of a cloud platform like this, uh, a fair amount of thought put into how you would 435 00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:57,580 standardize this so that you don't have to, uh, as a user, you don't have to like burn through the 436 00:26:57,580 --> 00:27:02,060 cognitive, uh, firewood of dealing with a bunch of different ways of doing something. You know, 437 00:27:02,460 --> 00:27:06,860 you don't want to mess around with SNMP, JMX, whatever it is they do in windows land nowadays. 438 00:27:07,420 --> 00:27:10,460 And, uh, not to mention like switches and other weirdness. 439 00:27:12,220 --> 00:27:15,260 And that was very visually evocative. That was a good answer. 440 00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:20,460 Yeah. You can tell that I worked way too much figuring out how SNMP works. And I just, 441 00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:23,980 I just want to, uh, I want to mine that sunk cost as much as possible. 442 00:27:23,980 --> 00:27:25,660 That's important. That's good. 443 00:27:25,660 --> 00:27:26,300 That's right. 444 00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:30,460 Yeah. So the last thing we had for you, Jerry, I wanted to talk, and this is a little hot off the 445 00:27:30,460 --> 00:27:34,380 press too, since I think we formally shifted all last week, but the small footprint, the, 446 00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:38,620 you know, can you tell us a little bit about that, which you teased in the blog announcement about 447 00:27:38,620 --> 00:27:42,860 one 12 and then came to fruition, uh, formally last week, what, what's the story there? 448 00:27:43,980 --> 00:27:48,620 Yeah, we mentioned, uh, I think you mentioned, you know, red monk earlier in the podcast and they're, 449 00:27:48,620 --> 00:27:54,700 they're fond of saying the best packaging of, you know, uh, open source tech or of software, um, 450 00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:59,500 wins, or it has a really outsized effect on the success of something in the, in the marketplace. 451 00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:03,020 And so with, with cloud foundry, you know, in the past we've had, you know, 452 00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:08,540 a really meaty install of it because it's designed for HA and day two operations and all this, 453 00:28:08,540 --> 00:28:11,660 you know, glorious, uh, operational things that we like to talk about. 454 00:28:12,220 --> 00:28:15,260 Uh, but there's a handful of scenarios where some customers said, you know, 455 00:28:15,260 --> 00:28:18,220 could I just use that on a, a smaller set of VMs? 456 00:28:18,220 --> 00:28:19,580 Is there any way that could be possible? 457 00:28:20,140 --> 00:28:24,860 And so we've taken some of that feedback to heart and, uh, you've done some pretty, uh, 458 00:28:24,860 --> 00:28:30,380 interesting engineering to co-locate, uh, a lot of the PCF components our customers know and love, 459 00:28:30,380 --> 00:28:34,380 um, into a really small subset of, uh, of infrastructure. 460 00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:40,380 So, uh, the standard install of, of cloud foundry will be about 30 VMs with a small footprint goes 461 00:28:40,380 --> 00:28:42,380 all the way down to six. 462 00:28:42,380 --> 00:28:47,820 And so now there's a much lower bar to, uh, to try out, you know, cloud foundry as this 463 00:28:47,820 --> 00:28:51,740 application platform, and that makes sense to use in a number of different scenarios. 464 00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:56,780 So it's really a nice way just to, uh, reduce friction in getting this platform in the hands 465 00:28:56,780 --> 00:28:59,420 of interested developers, um, in a number of different cases. 466 00:28:59,420 --> 00:29:03,740 And, and so like, what are the, uh, I mean, obviously some things are subtracted away, 467 00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:05,420 but what, what's, what are the capabilities? 468 00:29:05,420 --> 00:29:09,340 Uh, cause if I remember it's like, you know, 30 VMs down to six. 469 00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:11,180 So there must be some things that aren't in there. 470 00:29:11,180 --> 00:29:13,740 Like what's a, what's a good overview of what's not in there. 471 00:29:15,180 --> 00:29:16,780 What's, what isn't in there. 472 00:29:16,780 --> 00:29:20,500 I think it's, it's actually a lot more than, than you would think. 473 00:29:20,740 --> 00:29:23,740 We still have, you know, two VMs for, for Bosch. 474 00:29:23,740 --> 00:29:24,940 And then we've gotten your cred hub. 475 00:29:24,940 --> 00:29:28,440 So all the same CVE stuff that we've, that we've talked about in there. 476 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:33,020 And then for the most part with what we call the elastic runtime, um, it's really 477 00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:37,740 just, you know, jammed down in to about, you know, four VMs and then each one of those 478 00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:41,660 four VMs has a different role for the control plane or for the database or what have you. 479 00:29:41,660 --> 00:29:46,940 And then some of those can be scaled out, um, independently, uh, to give you a little 480 00:29:46,940 --> 00:29:48,780 bit more availability if you, if you need it. 481 00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:52,780 Um, but it really is sort of this, you know, full featured, you know, kind of experience. 482 00:29:52,780 --> 00:29:56,620 Um, there's some things with, you know, build packs and stuff like that, that, uh, 483 00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:57,980 that are stored in a little bit of a different way. 484 00:29:57,980 --> 00:30:02,460 Um, but for the most part, it's, uh, a lot of the same, um, things that you've come to expect 485 00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:03,660 from the elastic runtime. 486 00:30:03,660 --> 00:30:04,060 Yeah. 487 00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:08,220 There's, there's a nice diagram on it, of it, uh, on the blog post I'll link to. 488 00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:12,780 But you know, when you look over it, it's, it's sort of like, uh, production, like big 489 00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:17,820 scale things, uh, that, that aren't included, which, which are fine, but to your point, it 490 00:30:17,820 --> 00:30:23,020 allows you to, uh, more easily wrap your arms around, uh, what, what, what doing PCF stuff 491 00:30:23,020 --> 00:30:24,460 would be like. 492 00:30:24,460 --> 00:30:25,100 Yeah, which is cool. 493 00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:30,460 Do you see this, Jared, as we think about PCF dev, which is that single VM instance today 494 00:30:30,460 --> 00:30:35,100 that folks can use and download and just run PCF on their desktop and even CF local, something 495 00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:39,580 that's now in the Cloud Foundry foundation for kind of doing some Dockerized local development. 496 00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:43,420 Do you see this conflicting with those or are they obviously serving different use cases 497 00:30:43,420 --> 00:30:44,700 based on kind of the audience? 498 00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:46,300 Where do you see that landing? 499 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:49,580 Yeah, I think it's really a different, different tool for a different audience. 500 00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:54,780 You know, if you look at what, what PCF dev is, that's a, that's a great way for developers 501 00:30:54,780 --> 00:30:59,580 to be really productive, um, you know, with, with Cloud Foundry, you know, from their, from 502 00:30:59,580 --> 00:31:05,820 their workstation, um, the, the small footprint PCF is really about, um, being able to, to try 503 00:31:05,820 --> 00:31:11,500 it out as a proof of concept, be able to have, um, a related team inside your organization, 504 00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:16,380 give the platform a try, um, or even where you'd want to run your Cloud Foundry in production, 505 00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:18,220 uh, outside of a data center. 506 00:31:18,220 --> 00:31:23,580 I know we've talked to some, some prospects on cruise lines or, you know, wanting to run 507 00:31:23,580 --> 00:31:29,100 your Cloud Foundry at a warehouse location or, or retail location, um, and still have some, 508 00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:30,940 you know, reasonable of your production metrics. 509 00:31:30,940 --> 00:31:35,420 So it really is a different tool for those kinds of use cases apart from some of the other 510 00:31:35,420 --> 00:31:39,260 individual, you know, developer kinds of tools that we've developed in the past. 511 00:31:39,260 --> 00:31:40,220 Sure. 512 00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:44,700 I know, I know one case I've seen some folks excited is sometimes they've spun up PCF dev 513 00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:48,460 for training exercises or local labs just to kind of get it off out the door. 514 00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:52,700 But all of a sudden, actually having the small footprint and a full install is a little more 515 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:54,860 attractive than just cramming this on everyone's desktop. 516 00:31:54,860 --> 00:31:58,780 So it seems like that also may help non-production cases where you still need a good sandbox. 517 00:31:58,780 --> 00:32:04,220 Yeah, it seems, it seems like, uh, there's like, as you were outlining, there's, there's some, uh, 518 00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:09,340 interesting production cases, but it's sort of like a PCF dev for ops people if they want to 519 00:32:09,340 --> 00:32:13,500 have a, uh, easier way of bringing things. But of course we know that development and operations 520 00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:17,820 people work together hand in hand. So there's this myth that there would be ops people must not 521 00:32:17,820 --> 00:32:21,740 exist, but I, I don't want to get everyone upset. Well, uh, great. 522 00:32:21,740 --> 00:32:27,420 They eat pizza while they're doing that, right? Exactly. Exactly. Everyone's, everyone's subsisting 523 00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:32,700 on a two piece of diet with, with their, their, their even number amount of teammates. So, uh, 524 00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:36,700 we've got that going on for us. Well, uh, thanks for being on to give that, that overview. I think 525 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:41,500 that was, that was a quick overview to just check in on how this, this, uh, stuff has been operating. 526 00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:47,420 And then finally, um, I mean, I mean, we, we basically adopted a regular release train, uh, 527 00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:51,820 sort of schedule around this stuff, right? What, what's the cadence for that, that people should 528 00:32:51,820 --> 00:32:59,020 expect releases of stuff? Yeah, there's this really nice, uh, steady drumbeat of, of releases that we, 529 00:32:59,020 --> 00:33:04,140 that we seem to do every, every three months. Um, and that's been, uh, I think really a consistent 530 00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:10,460 theme the last year and a half or so. So, um, uh, I think, you know, March, June, September, 531 00:33:10,460 --> 00:33:15,340 December tend to be the, the times when we ship these, uh, dot releases as you alluded to. And, 532 00:33:15,340 --> 00:33:20,220 um, with lots of goodness, of course, uh, in between, but it's really nice for, um, you know, 533 00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:24,620 customers to have that predictability, uh, in their, you know, in their mission critical platforms. 534 00:33:24,620 --> 00:33:31,100 There you go. Consistency. Who doesn't want that? Well, so, uh, speaking of that, uh, this, 535 00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:36,620 the first week of December, I believe December, uh, did I say September or the first December 4th and 5th, 536 00:33:36,620 --> 00:33:42,940 we're having our conference SpringOne platform over there in a lovely San Francisco, bring a sweater 537 00:33:42,940 --> 00:33:47,740 and a slicker just in case. And, uh, if you're interested in going that I'm sure we'll be talking 538 00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:52,940 about, uh, pivotal cloud foundry plenty. And there'll also be lots of actual users and customers 539 00:33:52,940 --> 00:33:58,140 coming and talking about not only how the technology works and what they've been doing, but how they've 540 00:33:58,140 --> 00:34:03,180 successfully. And usually I encourage people to talk about their unsuccessful attempts as well, 541 00:34:03,180 --> 00:34:07,420 but the best and worst practices of how they've been improving health software is done at their 542 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:12,140 organization. Uh, but it's, it's great to come out to that. And if you're interested, uh, we've got 543 00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:16,620 many, many of the sessions posted now. I don't think all of them, so you can check back more, but, uh, 544 00:34:16,620 --> 00:34:24,300 if you, if you want to register, you can use the discount code S1P200 underscore C O T E get $200 off, 545 00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:29,740 or you could pay the full amount, however you like to entertain yourself and, uh, and expense things. 546 00:34:29,740 --> 00:34:34,300 And as, uh, with that, as always, if you want to get the most recent episodes of Pivotal Conversations, 547 00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:39,580 you can go to soundcloud.com slash Pivotal Conversations, no underscore in there, just 548 00:34:39,580 --> 00:34:44,780 one big long word. Um, and you can find the past episodes. And if you're, if you're really up to it, 549 00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:49,740 you can go in and annotate little, uh, links in, in the episode. We did a link on using like TensorFlow, 550 00:34:49,740 --> 00:34:54,700 uh, with PCF. And I saw that, uh, that we went in and annotated some of the things in there, 551 00:34:54,700 --> 00:35:00,140 which is delightful to see. And, uh, you know, really what you should just do is subscribe to the RSS feed, 552 00:35:00,140 --> 00:35:05,820 which you can find wherever you do this kind of stuff. And with that, we'll see everyone next time. Bye-bye.