Pivotal Container Service at VMworld 2017 (Ep. 79)

Episode 64 · 40:31 · SRT · archive.org · all Tanzu Talk

we have something that they call heavy trash pickup you have heavy trash pickup in your neck of the woods we can call an order and they'll come and pick up a couch or a you know an extra kit or whatever else we stick on the curb wow that's fancy living i mean you guys have like composting or you folks have like composting up there right do you have that as well uh no i just got the usual 15 trash cans or whatever we have to do now for cycling and yard waste and uh it's too much well that that reminds me i was i was in i was in london last week for uh devops and we'll get back to the heavy trash uh the heavy trash pickup you know the scintillating topics i was in dev in london for devops days london and i met an old friend of mine there and we uh of all places he chose to meet at a whole foods which is which is delightful and interesting it's funny we went in there and i was like so they have any like uh regional specials or anything and and he said no and so so they actually did have like i think a uh a type of sausage that was british you know you ever eat like a british sausage and it tastes a little more organy than uh sausagey i think i read once that there's some regulations about that but anyways uh so we were at a whole foods and we're done with our meal and then they of course you know kind of um what was the movie not judged red but what's the one where fester stallone goes into the future and they've got the three clam system i i i know what you're talking about yeah yeah so the recycling nowadays is like uh is like a three clam system right and uh they of course at whole foods they have this and i've i've encountered this elsewhere so maybe you know the answer richard but if listeners also know the answer so you got you'll have standard recycling which is straightforward and then there's something i guess compost right and then they have this other category every now and then you're lucky and it's just landfill and you're like got it right like whatever doesn't make sense put in there but then it's at whole foods i forget what it was labeled but it was something like you know complex recycling or something but but the thing is sometimes you get this three can system and it

doesn't say just like landfill and so i never know what to do with like i just had a brown paper carton that i had my uh my british sausage and other stuff in it's some lovely tofu they had there and so it's like covered in food and i don't know do i put that in the recycling or or where do i put that because like here in austin you're not supposed to not that i would ever do this but you're not supposed to take a cardboard pizza box and put that in recycling because it's got food on it in theory right um so like i don't know i don't know i don't know what to do with this three can system if there's not like a straight up landfill and and there's never there's never a brochure no maybe you get like a picture on but between hotel showers and recycling there's nothing more humbling to me where you're just standing there like i'll be at the pivotal office staring there for like 30 seconds going i don't know where to put this thing in this trash then you just kind of mail it in and stick it in the the landfill trash but yeah yeah i feel like a terrible person but it's very tricky yeah so if if anyone is in the uh the waste management business out there you should start having some brochures with it but you're right about hotel showers man i was i was in the uh you know if you if you go to london yeah i recommend the uh the sheraton grand park or something it's right there on uh piccadilly is that how they say that or is that like my arkansas grandmother pronouncing it and uh it's it's just like the southeast corner of hyde park and some other park it's lovely not not too pricey but they had one of those european showers where there's it's got the temperature and then it's got like also the the the handle for the the water and the temperature one you've got to push a button down and and you set that and then and then the water one i you can tell i had to figure this out like one way is like your hand wand and the other way is your uh your uh shower shower as we would call it over here and man what a system no we need a national conversation on showers i mean how are we allowing every hotel to do this differently have you ever called the front desk and ask for help i've come close oh no i i don't even i don't even order a pot of coffee in the morning because i just i don't want to face anyone so i would never do that and then and then

someone comes to your room and you're like do i gotta tip this guy do i tip this person what what do i do here yeah that's awful my wife tells me and then we'll get back to to heavy trash pickup my wife tells me that you can order a pot of coffee delivered in the morning and left at your door which um that sounds like some kind of paradise i just haven't experienced yet seems like a fire hazard maybe that's just me so the heavy trash pickup i guess if you don't have this let me just tell you a phenomena that happens that i think is fascinating because it's kind of like a little game and then we'll get on to some computer stuff but uh so you put all your heavy trash out and it takes them about a week to come collect it and then the weekend before there's these big pickup trucks with trailers that come cruising around and they sort through your stuff kind of like in our mutual friend if you ever read that and uh it's interesting to see what they pick up like we put three ceiling fans out there and what they did i don't know who they is but what the people did is they they came and they broke the blades off of the fans and they took the motor unit and i assume one that's because it fits and two maybe they take the blades off or they just get the copper wire out of it i don't know it's the uh the scavenging business is fascinating but so far perfectly good tv stand from ikea no one's taken that i'm looking at it right now yep yep i haven't taken that that that and some fan blades i mean that's a that's a sad short story right yeah yeah broken fan blades good to no one wow yeah well uh let's see it's been a while since we recorded you've been traveling a lot speaking of hotel showers and i think i think uh the last major thing you were at was was the big old vm world confab that was week before last right that's right in vegas it was only 106 so it cooled off a bit man i haven't been there in a long time they still doing all right there they got all those shows yeah all the shows i'll tell you it's b-list uh heaven out there yeah if you've ever had a career you can get yourself a show yeah huh huh i i've narrowly avoided going to orlando recently too

which i'm happy about but i did orlando and vegas in the month of august i make poor choices oh yeah it's soupy out there so we we we had some uh some pretty big announcements we haven't really talked about here so we had the uh pivotal container service pks because i guess you know it's actually like the pivotal kubernetes service i i don't know it's just funny that's how that's how google yeah i mean right right google did the same thing so we uh we somewhat copied that and yeah it was a big announcement i know we'll talk about a little bit later but it was definitely i think the announcement of the show the things that folks were talking about well afterwards as well so uh yeah great great way to continue to expand the pivotal portfolio so yeah we'll gab about that in a little bit yeah yeah and then there was also uh an announcement i think the other the other at least for my my money speaking of vegas there was also i think vmware continued uh moving its its its what do you call it vcloud air onto aws which uh which was uh interesting for our area and uh yeah so so i like we should probably go over that as the main body of stuff but but uh in addition to that i didn't notice this till uh you were sharing these things earlier but there's actually like two little studies on topic of kubernetes and container usage i think right the first one is more like an abstract i briefly looked at the methodology but over there at uh over there at red monk i think uh like uh uh fintar as as his twitter handle is he uh he gave a summary of a little study they were doing and it looks like the way that they went over it is they kind of scanned some major companies about who they were hiring and questions they were asking sort of interest that might be indicative of of bigger use uh across fortune 100 companies and i was saying that uh that that docker is being has penetration if you will uh across like i don't know maybe uh 71 percent or so i mean i i love it when there's a 71 percent and but uh you know a little little trailing one there but then definitely that uh there was a lot of interest about half of people in kubernetes and uh and i think what was he saying that half i i forget

the reading but half of people fortune 100 companies were like indicated there was some kind of cloud foundry interest i assume that's open source cloud foundry you know inclusive of the various distros like ours um right and then i guess it was also like he did some summary he didn't go over all of this it was a very brief post some summary of um of the publicly referenceable people which i'm i'm uh interpolating is that the right word that maybe he combined together a list of public references and sort of counted them there that like the majority of them were uh cloud foundry references but i mean the the main thing i think uh and then there's a second survey from the cff which i think is a good commentary on this but you know stuff like this is good and helpful but it is like strictly penetration thinking uh to use that term technically which is to say there's at least one instance of this happening it doesn't necessarily uh you know and probably more in these companies obviously but it doesn't necessarily mean like market share and dominance it's just that some at least one one thing in there is uh is interested in it which as long as long as you have that temper across it you know because it would be a completely different thing if if we said across fortune 100 companies 71 of them use docker as their core technology for doing everything like that would be a much bigger statement than uh just right and i think you know you point out clearly nothing this doesn't say who's in production and i would promise you or i would get almost be close to guaranteeing you that the cloud foundry usage in production you know dwarfs the others even docker even kubernetes just because from what we've i think all experienced is that sometimes things stall out as you get closer to production because of different compliance reviews and things like that that you know kubernetes is great for incubating some things and obviously pks is about helping you actually run this in production so as you say it's tough without really digging in and seeing is this one departmental thing is this an organizational strategy is this what have you i mean goodness i was thinking the

other day i don't think it's unreasonable to say there's more apps running in pcf in the fortune 100 than there is on amazon now i say that only because some of the largest companies are deploying thousands of applications to pcf and i don't know if those same numbers go into some of the public clouds i'm making that up i have no idea but that wouldn't shock me but again it all depends on what level is this production is this staging is this development are people hacking around you know without digging in but as you say it's a trend thing and either way it's useful to see yeah and then i think there's a good i mean it seems like well hopefully the red monk will come out with a more extensive write-up on i mean it was really just like 500 800 words which is fine but uh there was there was a now that i think of it it's interesting it was also a summary of a report or at least a second part in an ongoing series from uh our friends at the cloud foundry foundation and and i think theirs is uh there's no need to really disclaim or explain their their stuff because they spend a lot of time saying like ah these numbers are like provisional not provisional but these numbers are representative and they explain uh how how things are more about penetration and usage and they also look at some other surveys uh from people like datadog and others but what's interesting about them is is they focus more on uh year over year growth primarily by looking at people who are evaluating containers and are interested in them and there is a big uptick in their uh their survey base of i think in 2016 there were there were 31 percent of people there there's that one again not not 35 not 30 31 you don't like round numbers anyways so there's 30 percent of people evaluating it in 2016 evaluating containers and that's gone up to 42 percent which for a year over year thing is pretty big i mean in uh i think i think in use it just went from 22 to 25 percent which which is nice i don't know what their margin of error is but you know it's small enough that it's not like uh you know big bonkers stuff but but that's that's also a good survey to kind of look at just to uh combine together with the over one and the overall like way i would file

it over is like yet again these containers things seem to be a big deal yeah and and i think i think this is even more even more so it's being meta about it it's growth over the growth we've seen last year in surveys saying that they're a big deal if if that makes sense so it's uh it's pretty validating yeah yeah i mean it's the same reason you know look i think we just saw the new spring boot numbers were like 22 million or something silly for spring boot downloads and is downloads a good metric no you know it's not great there's all sorts of edge thing but it's a trend line that says this was up from a million a couple of years ago clearly there's a trajectory and same with containers same with cloud foundry same with kubernetes there's a positive trajectory of these cloud native technologies and that's a good thing and if you're not using those it's time to get a little bit nervous that you're actually being left behind yeah and then and then so uh did did we announce these new tiles at vm world or when was that done they were all right around there and so we're you know i think the family of uh dell tech is starting to integrate a little better so if you look in the pivotal marketplace now you'll see things for the elastic cloud storage ecs dell boomy vmware wavefront and so if you're a cloud foundry customer and you like using s3 compatible storage but in your data center then you're probably already looking at ecs or using it great if you like doing ipazi stuff if we go to the gartner definitions of things the integration paths like i want to connect sas system a to sas system b dell boomy is the industry leader for that there's a really actually sophisticated tile for pcf to actually build out vms with the integration components pretty cool stuff and then wavefront was something vmware bought back in the spring acquired it and now they've integrated it's kind of a application performance monitoring some pretty cool correlation capabilities in there so you can extract data from the pcf nozzle whatever the log regator all that log information pull it into wavefront do some cool analytics which they actually showed it uh showed off wavefront a

bit at vm world i was pretty impressed so all of those are now tiles so what is what does wavefront do it's like application performance monitoring so it's looking for data points and helping it pinpoint problems i know i'm getting it confused with wave maker which was this uh this like in browser rad application thing from i don't know the late 2000s yeah it was kind of interesting and uh i think i think man i i want now i should go look this up i i remember i remember someone bought it and maybe got sold to someone else or good times anyhow so so then uh we you know we we were talking about scheduling one of our uh security people on to come talk about the uh the equifax data breach but it was it was i feel like i feel like i feel like well first of all what's what's the summary of that and then i'll add my uh john madden commentary to it yeah i mean it looks like with equifax which obviously is a big player in the kind of credit space is that there was giant breach of what's like 143 something million people might be impacted and some was credit card information some was personal information definitely not good a lot of information kind of leaking out it's not all real definitive yet sound like this happened in july and they just announced it here in early september that it happened and you know looks like it may have been tied to unpatched environments but some of that's going back and forth so again i think it's it's an area for not just doing hot takes on blaming certain things i think the only thing you blame is equifax for not properly securing their environment whether they were using bad tech or whether using old tech or whether you're just using tech wrong it falls on you as a business if you're collecting customer data to protect it and so not good not good stuff at all yeah yeah so so maybe we'll uh we'll we'll have someone on to talk about that in more detail and then you know well not in more detail but use that as context to talk about more uh security things but it is interesting i think uh i think it's the first instance that like my my uh my non-nerd associates in my life were more up to date on it than i am so whatever whatever notification news

coverage stuff people have you know our our our little society of news has put in place it's it's effective it's uh it's it's reaching the normals yeah and you know there's one for a lot of us that you know can yeah can reach close to home because it might impact us all personally with this and you know patching stuff i think a lot of cios probably woke up today saying our number one priority needs to be making sure our customer facing internet systems are patched the problem is even if you do heroics and do all of that in the next week you're gonna have to do it again the week after because this stuff never stops you have to rethink how you secure enterprise and it'll be a good conversation for us to have yeah and then uh and then finally there's uh there's some kafka news that you put in here what's what's that about so kafka released this ksql capability open source streaming sql for kafka i think they did this at their kafka summit and really the idea is how do you analyze data in flight so traditional data solutions is kind of the data sits there and your queries always change right you're issuing different queries against your data in the more complex event processing world it's always been you actually deploy the query and the data washes over it so the query is kind of static and the data changes so this is a similar-ish model where you're actually deploying queries and you might be looking for anomalies you might be looking for different things doing windowing which is cool saying hey i'm looking for accounts for the next five minutes in like time period stuff so as data flows through the streaming engine you can actually issue some sql like queries against the data so cool technology cool capability i think again it just drives home that event-driven architecture and processing data in real time is clearly something a lot that's on the minds of a lot of tech vendors but obviously clearly on customers who don't want to just do kind of day after month after analytics they need to be analyzing this stuff as it happens so you know obviously by the way i prompted you to talk about that i don't really know much at all about kafka but it does seem like someone needs to do some surveys about how popular that is because it seems like that's uh that's what is this true that's like the data

thing i don't know what to call this stuff anymore the uh no sql is that is that a thing uh but that's the thing that there you go that's the thing that like seems to come up the uh the most pretty much all the time so it seems extremely popular that's fair they have a ton of mind share in the space i mean there's you know obviously things like rabbit mq can do virtually any pattern you can do in kafka it's still about messaging and transferring data and real-time processing there's different architectures of course but the use cases can be very similar or things like amazon kinesis do the same thing or azure event hub so there's all sorts of things in this space but you know the kafka team and confluent in general have done a great job of kind of taking up some of the uh the public space and sharing what's going on here and and how is it is it popular off there in uh dot net microsoft land or do they have their own analog thing that everyone's everyone's uh all hoot and tooting about yeah it doesn't really i mean there's brokers and there's endpoints and sdks and things that are a little dot net friendly but it's traditionally been a more linux centric environment tool and open source tool so i think that's where you're looking at things that azure offers or microsoft's esb product enterprise service bus product so i think it's been a little later coming to this actually microsoft had a complex event process engine stream insight years ago i think it's still technically around but not maintained that actually did this sort of thing in a neat way and actually shipped with sql server it was just arguably ahead of its time so microsoft folks are probably catching up to this versus being uh right on it with things like kafka yeah you're reminding me i i maybe this is like four or five years ago like there were all all the uh all the big vendors were talking about like streams and data streams and stuff and and i could never i could never figure out like what the use cases for it were they would just talk about like how uh how quickly they could consume and do stuff with streams of data so right you know very popular at the time well yeah so uh so then on to the vm world stuff so you were actually there you gave a presentation i was how was how was the uh how was the show how was it that was one of the biggest conferences i've been at had like 23 000 people

or something like that i mean besides dream force which is like a festival and has like 100 000 people but never all in the same place so when you're sitting in an announcement you know keynote hall it's a i don't know like an arena like where they do shows and things and it's you're surrounded by by 20 000 people watching a stage that was massive and then you know giant show floor for all the vendors and the usual games and whatever bizarre things happening on a conference show floor but a good vibe it seemed like there was a uh a different vibe this year than at least some of the media reports from the last few years of hey is vmware going to survive containers is vmware going to survive amazon is vmware just dead man walking and instead really walked out of the show going gosh they may have figured this out like they may have figured out how to play in a cloud world they may have figured out how to not compete with containers but complement some of that and even showing off some of their tooling i think some of my visual experience of the vmware tooling is a little old because they were showing some of the newer capabilities and like that's a good user interface that doesn't look like a mess at all so it seems like the company's really doing some interesting stuff so it seemed to be reflected in the show where the vibe was good the people walking around a lot of chatter a lot of activity people you know sessions were full up to the last day so it was a good show it's vegas mandalay bay out in the middle of middle of nowhere at the end of the strip but it uh it seemed again had a great crowd lots of topics you know people covering infrastructure and network and then this quirky pivotal company talking about apps and continuous delivery and stuff i thought that was a nice change of pace mandalay bay i haven't been there in a long time i used to go there all the time that's the one where they have uh they have uh you walking along the hallway to the main conference center and all of a sudden there's this little uh tex-mex restaurant or mexican restaurant right like just kind of creeps up on you maybe they don't have that there anymore yeah i think that's right and i was staying at the mgm for some pivotal meetings so i was walking back and forth because i make again poor choices and that was like 30 minutes door to door even though they're inside of each other no it's true so so we i think i think the the the biggest announcement as we're talking about

earlier that we had there was uh was the pivotal container service pks and uh now now now correct me where i get the my facts wrong but and then i'll have to go back and talk to all those people at devops days london that i talked to i'll uh i'll have to write them a letter maybe send it to the authorities over there to distribute but if i got something wrong but basically you got uh essentially it's the idea of like here's here's a kubernetes distribution i don't know if that's what people say in the kubernetes word but world but the the current instantiation of it which won't be released till the end of the year so it's just an announcement of of a thing is that it uses uh the vmware stack so it's got the nsx networking thing and then uh running on i guess i don't know what they call it nowadays because but whatever whatever yeah whatever that's what i was gonna say now there you go whatever v sphere is and i think it has integrations with the v realize like systems management and monitoring stack but uh essentially the idea is that you use bosch which is the people listening to this probably know what that is but it's the the configuration management and provisioning and and in a good way rudimentary health check management like restarting things and making sure they're healthy and making sure everything's running running like it should it doesn't do you know like complex apm stuff but whatever uh but it basically uses bosch to deploy and manage the kubernetes cluster that you have uh with the idea that like if you want to if you want to run containers and run kubernetes now you can do it in uh in the pivotal cloud foundry stack if you will uh using the full the full power and functionality of of all the vmware stuff underneath which hopefully means that uh it's it's reliable and and uh you know that it's it's a reliable distro that we have and then it kind of fits into the way that most large enterprises want to be managing things uh and using their existing vmware knowledge and and all of that stuff and so i think i think i think at the you know to distinguish between existing pivotal cloud foundry we have the uh the elastic runtime which unless you

get a deep dive into pivotal cloud foundry you don't encounter very much but the ert which sounds highly medical i guess like an er or something or whatever that thing is that checks your heart rate uh and uh so that is sort of like distinguished as the quote i'm doing air quotes here traditional pivotal cloud foundry thing that will run alongside that for all of your uh your cloud native applications and your 12 factor stuff and things like that and then if if you want to run things in more of a container oriented way or if you know they're they're heavier stateful applications services or or whatever now there's sort of like this peer to run and so you like got all your bases covered for the way that you want to run and manage all your uh your various applications and then also i guess i left off that it runs on uh google's cloud and and by virtue of that i don't have the laundry list of stuff but it's got the like what five or eight sort of uh various google cloud services that get integrated into it which which you know i would expect that just like we do with pivotal cloud foundry it would run on other platforms sometime in the future if that makes sense but i think it uh it sort of fits with the whole uh bent of of what we've been doing with pivotal cloud foundry which is like here's your centralized way of running your applications and there's various ways now that you can uh package things up to run into there but it basically just gives you a uh application platform if you will or platform as we would just say and then runs on all of these uh these multiple clouds i guess i guess just two at the moment but then nicely it gives you uh uh what would be the word it gives you as much portability as you could hope for across different types of infrastructure which uh which which seems like what people want how'd i get did i get that right yeah that's a shockingly uh well done explanation of it that was good for someone not being there sitting through uh 90 briefings like i've been going through the last months i was that was really well done uh yeah no well said i think that it's important to go back and though say like why you know is this because

pivotal just missed the boat on other stuff and now we're kind of hat in hand don't gonna shoot i guess we'll offer kubernetes now but i don't think that's it at all so this came down to pivotal is good i think we've proven that we're good at industrializing open source meaning making open source operable secure you know just running cloud founder from the open source repo that's work right to bundle it to patch it to secure it to deploy it you know most people don't do that they run a distribution of it that takes care of it like what pivotal does and we do that with spring and we do that with all these sorts of things to try to make it easier to run open source and so we've solved a bit of that pivotal you know 12 factor app use case right we've done a good job of that we've kind of addressed that built a great tool chain but as our customer said look it's also we're running these other things as you're the survey we talked about above people are starting to run other things but the maturity of the tooling isn't there and so how do you make it simpler for gen enterprise to now add something like kubernetes for stateful workloads or other types of apps or whatever even 12 factor apps doesn't matter how do we make it easier for them to run those and so taking existing software that we've built like bosch like kubo which builds on bosch like nsx like google cloud like these pieces wavefront harbor and combine them into a product we're good at that we've i think we've proven we do well at that so this is more of an exercise of pivotal trying to make sure that we can eventually run 100 of the apps that you have and not saying that ert isn't the right choice for a number of apps it is it's still the preferred way to run cloud native apps but that as you have other types of applications or even as you want to you know have different divisions who don't use cloud foundry how can i at least have the same operational tool chain for the whole thing so i'm using bosch i'm using stem cells i'm using all these components whether i'm using kubernetes or whether i'm using elastic runtime or any of these we're making it easy now what's been unique here because kubernetes is not an unsolved problem there's whatever 50 different variations people have done on this i think why google was excited about this work was we're doing

vanilla kubernetes here this is not a distribution of kubernetes this is open source kubernetes that we are making it easier to operate so it's not draped in customizations that lead to like a six month lag before the customer actually gets their hands on it because the vendor has to munge it all together with their stuff and their customizations nope we uh you know sam ramji was on stage from google saying the thing that's exciting here is this constant compatibility meaning that as kubernetes is updated it gets into pks and there's virtually no lag so you've got this constant compatibility with something like gke google's hosted container engine because you're going to constantly be up to date it's not necessarily something that's been forked or refactored or done anything with so your portability is awesome you know you're getting access to the latest innovation and you're still getting it operated at enterprise scale by a company i think you trust to deliver security stuff so all of that i think comes together why google would be on stage at a vm world event vmware event that's not something that traditionally happens but i think pivotal and google and vmware are saying we're taking existing products we're combining them in a cool way and we're solving a legit problem that's unaddressed in the market by doing something hopefully folks trust pivotal to do yeah yeah you know the the uh uh to go in a little jag the uh the compatibility thing is interesting i mean it's been that's been you know it's almost been almost been three years since i worked here and then also when i was covering pivotal as an analyst a big theme was always uh multi-cloud uh and the um i mean i i guess i guess the the the negative uh synonym of compatibility is lock-in right like that's that's the thing you're sort of uh avoiding the when you have compatibility but it is it is sort of like a constant theme and building out whatever cloud native is cloud native platforms and all of that is is uh and it doesn't apply to all them but it's this idea that you want to have portability and compatibility of of your application choices and i shouldn't say application choices of where you're running your applications and

obviously as i was kind of alluding to earlier you know if you depend on something that's only available in a platform or some particular way that uh that you configure to it or use it then you've got to worry about that it's not always like you can just drag and drop something i don't even know if there is a drag and drop interface somewhere there probably is for a fancy demo but you know those are always mildly ridiculous demos like that's gonna happen um but uh yeah i got i got my itel change request and now i'm gonna use a mouse to drag and drop it and then close the ticket but amazing um but it is it is like you know it makes me think that or sort of reflect on a general principle or i wonder if this is a principle of if you're kind of like a a planner type to go back several episodes whatever it is an enterprise architect is nowadays it seems like you would have a principle and you would say like all right this period we're in there's a whole lot of different options of things to do but we got to choose something right like we've got to modernize how we do our application platform so because there's so many choices out there what we want to do is maximize our our options for moving to different platforms in the future so we want to have maximum compatibility right like maybe we'll be running everything in google or maybe azure will have a container service or maybe we'll run it on premise but we want to make sure that however packaging things up we'll be able to move around as much as possible which seems like a good principle and and you know it'd be easy to say you always want to do that but there's probably many situations where you don't always want to do that like for example uh the late 2000s where vmware basically wins and you're like well i guess i'll make everything into vmware images and you know it seems like essentially you uh you settle down of uh you know on on what it is you want to do but at this period if you're doing some sort of application development based on container stuff then uh you want to have sort of like maximum compatibility it is and and i think i think with our stack and and then also by nature with uh with a google stack or a vmware stack and and and working back to stuff we've already announced you know a

microsoft stack i think i think people should have pretty good feels about the compatibility across those uh across those different pools of air of ecosystems if you will uh that's right to cover your basis there so then then also like i mean you know i know uh i know because you're always tweeting about how excited you are about it like you and i and other people read the sort of the sort of weekly field reports and man like there is there's like a lot of interest for this thing only being out two weeks like i didn't go through and search for uh instances of pks not like i would report them out here but uh yeah like there was a lot of people who uh wanted to get briefed or have been briefed you know customers and prospects we have at large organizations so it is it's uh you know like obviously for if you listen to my other podcast software defined talk like these container things have been a big deal for a while and and kubernetes and everything so obviously there's interest but there's uh even more interest uh out there in the field than than i would expect there to be and part of that i think is you know uh it's a testament to how many people out in the field we have engaging all the time pivotal people but still there's a huge pull for it which uh it'll be it'll be nice over the next six months even if not longer to see see how uh how this stuff pans out and i think i think what's what's particularly interesting so like one of the things i i've i've i like about about being at pivotal is you get to go talk to these large organizations and just see what they're doing with with all with all this technology and it'll be it'll be fun to see what they do with uh with kubernetes and containers and how they divide things out and and it's uh it's a good what do they call it in economics a natural experiment of how uh how this technology gets used but yeah there's tons of interest yeah it's been now i've been following that as well and what's been interesting too is it comes from a lot of our existing customers who say look this is more workloads we can run with you now we like the model we like the pivotal way and and now you give us more choices and it's also candidly come from a number of places that didn't really click with cloud foundry elastic runtime and then back in

going yeah you know we like this idea to be able to use straight up kubernetes without all the accoutrements and instead just operate it at scale in a way that doesn't require a 50 person operations team that sounds really appealing so coming from lots of different dimensions it's exciting stuff i mean it's not unrealistic that 12 months from now no one makes more revenue from kubernetes than people like it just that's not out of the realm of possibility we'll have to save that up save that up for a predictions episode come uh december or something yeah there you go that sounds good yeah uh yeah no no it is interesting it's sort of like uh it's like you got the automatic transition and you got the stick transition you choose whichever one you like i uh i that's right i always choose automatic because i don't know how to drive that other one although here they have paddles nowadays which uh you know paddle shifting which that sounds like more my speed so to speak maybe that would work you use those the first day you buy the car and then you never use them again yeah that's right both of my cars have those in it and uh it is kind of a weird vestigial feature it's it's like that second gear thing like what is that for like when you're driving across the rockies or something i don't know that does remind me i had dinner with uh with with uh that friend of mine in london and his how old was his kid 14 they said that uh he got to go on the closed track as a 14 year old and drive a ferrari which is kind of interesting that they have that going on wow yeah i'll have to look at to see if they have that for my seven year old my daughter just turned four maybe she qualifies bring some fun books well then also we mentioned just just to mention it just to mention it briefly before we close out also uh also vmware completed moving it's uh it's v it's v cloud air stuff to aws so there's yet another option if you want to run your your vmware stuff on aws they have that they have that finished out did you did you see anything about that while you were at the show yeah i mean they've still got the v cloud network i think of partners some of this was the v vmware cloud management thing the vmc on aws saying how do i manage aws as well as my on-prem vmware assets

and so they showed off some really actually impressive demonstrations of building out these environments managing them connecting them you know this was did not look like a superficial integration this looked like legitimate multi-cloud provisioning and management so if you care about that from an infrastructure perspective if you're still kind of managing infrastructure versus apps which is probably most people uh it looked pretty compelling and if you're amazon this is a great way to start pulling in some of those workloads that might not have been on a fast path or fast track to aws and if you're vmware all of a sudden you have a legitimate way to actually stripe management across multiple infrastructure environments which frankly most in the multi-cloud space haven't really done in a great way so you know i i saw this fairly compelling and it's done and i think it's just available in oregon so i guess they're just trying it out on those those characters but it'll expand to other regions over these coming months just available in oregon that is a part i read that was uh that was kind of funny but you know you experiment with it and expand it out it's it's a new way of stuff well uh i think that i think that's it for our coverage here i think uh it'll it'll be fun it'll be fun ongoing we'll have we're going to uh schedule the um what would you call it the product manager the uh the product person uh cornelia from pks at some point to come talk with us some point soon about that so we'll get more details on it and uh by that time we'll see how much more interest there are and things fleshed out there but but that'll be good so as always this has been Pivotal Conversations if you want to go browse previous episodes find the rss feed for this the best place to go is soundcloud.com slash Pivotal Conversations with no space you can also usually about every thursday if uh if i'm doing my job correctly we form we post a formal version with full show notes and everything over at pivotal.io slash podcast which you can find and there's just a little little uh thing uh you know we're coming up on uh december where we have our SpringOne platform i think i think we're kind of close i think maybe the cfp closed a couple weeks ago or last week or

something or maybe it's closing now sometime it did just close there you go as always on i'm on top of these things but uh the the sessions are looking pretty good and there's even some debates over which sessions to have some little some little uh cfp fighting going on which which is encouraging but if you're interested in that you should check it out at uh spring io that spring io spring spring one platform.io and uh you can use the code s1p200 underscore Coté because every now and then you should revisit the underscore character to get as you you might guess two hundred dollars off uh and the uh the price jumps up i think on the 17th or 18th so if you're listening to this this uh week of september jump on now and the main stage is looking amazing we're putting it together right now the number of customers speaking the spring presentations it's really going to be uh be something special so it's time to book it yeah it will it will be nice and i think there's there's some uh there's all sorts of tracks going on i got the devops track that i'm helping out with continuous integration and there's the uh i think it has some title like the transformation track but it's like have all the business manager people come talk about how they change their organization over and of course you've got spring and cloud foundry and things like that and there'll probably be uh you know several sessions about pks and other things like that so it'll be chock full of good stuff over there at musconi west if i if i remember i don't know if it's right because i think someone told me they're redoing north and south so you're you're over there in the west area nice crisp cool weather and also uh if you if you uh catch this in time i'm going to be at several devops days i'll be in latvia next week and then kansas city and uh at nashville some other places uh that that i'm not remembering but uh you definitely check out uh over there at devopsdays.org pivotal people will be out at many of them if you're interested in talking more about these topics and with that we'll see everyone next time bye bye

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