1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,560 Well, I'm here in Paris for DevOx France, and the thing that I have noticed – now, I don't know why I ever doubt this, but pretty much everyone who's ever touched a computer knows who Josh Long is. 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:19,440 I'm here helping to staff the booth, and people come up to me, and one of the first things they mention is like, oh, I'm here to see Josh Long. 3 00:00:20,020 --> 00:00:23,720 So that guy is – he's really doing his work around here. 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,060 He's pulling his own weight. 5 00:00:25,380 --> 00:00:25,620 Yes. 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:26,360 Very famous. 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:32,260 Well, you know, we don't always have little ads here on the podcast, but there's a couple of things that I wanted to make sure we go over. 8 00:00:32,340 --> 00:00:40,820 One of them is that we – I wouldn't say we're in the thick of it, but we're in the thin edge of the beginning of the thickness of our cloud-native roadshows that we do here at Pivotal. 9 00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:49,000 I think there's been a couple of them already, but if you go to – well, we'll put a link to it in the show notes, but if you just look up Pivotal cloud-native roadshows, there's – I don't know, what would you say it is? 10 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:59,220 There's so many cities that I can't really count them, but there's about 10 or 12 or so cities, many of them in North America, but there's also several in Germany and Europe and other locations. 11 00:00:59,580 --> 00:01:19,320 Throughout, let's say, into August, things going on where you can come and – I think it's basically like a two-thirds of a day event where you get some nice lunch and you get to hang out with some Pivotal people, some Google Cloud people, and they'll kind of in nice detail go over all sorts of things about what we mean by cloud-native and what we're doing here in the Pivotal and the Google space. 12 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:34,860 But it's a good event to go look up, and it's in most major cities, but chances are, if you live in a larger city, definitely in the U.S., but also in some spots in Europe, you'll have a chance over the summer and early fall to go check out a cloud-native roadshow. 13 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:38,540 Yeah, I think it's 25 total, 15 in the U.S., 5 Europe, 5 Asia. 14 00:01:38,540 --> 00:01:44,740 Oh, yes, I skipped over the coming soon in Amsterdam and Seoul and Tokyo, Hong Kong, Sydney, and Singapore. 15 00:01:45,060 --> 00:01:46,800 That's right. We're cloud-native wherever you are. 16 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,020 That's right. That's a new motto. You must work in marketing. 17 00:01:51,340 --> 00:01:56,760 Well, so let's see. We also have – there's two other – there's spring days we have, right? When's that coming up? 18 00:01:56,780 --> 00:02:00,660 Yeah, spring days. So it's three cities, Chicago, New York, and Atlanta. 19 00:02:00,660 --> 00:02:07,980 So this is really – I mean, more of a user conference. This is people who are going to be talking about spring, get your spring fix in before SpringOne platform in December. 20 00:02:08,540 --> 00:02:13,140 So it starts in Chicago at the end of May. It'll be in New York in June, Atlanta in July. 21 00:02:13,420 --> 00:02:20,320 Should be fun. A couple days. Your aforementioned Josh Long will be there, which automatically means lots of screaming people and adoring fans. 22 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:27,720 But we'd love to see, I think, more topics pitched. So you can do a submit for proposals or you can attend. Both are good ideas. 23 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:34,160 Well, we have a returning guest on this episode. Do you want to introduce yourself briefly, returning guest? 24 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,620 Yes, I am Jared Ruckel, returning guest to the Pivotal Conversations podcast. 25 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:40,860 I work on the product team with Richard. 26 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:46,420 And so we have you on nominally to talk about the new release that – was it just announced today, Richard? 27 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:48,140 Yeah, it was announced a few hours ago. 28 00:02:48,340 --> 00:02:52,760 And so it's – we'll see how fresh I make this podcast once I post it. 29 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:58,480 But sort of fresh off the release, we're going to go over what's in Pivotal Cloud Foundry 1.10, as I recall. 30 00:02:58,980 --> 00:03:05,320 But before we get to that, as usual, there's a few news items that you, the audience, may be interested in that we'll go over. 31 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,140 And as always, feel free to, as the special guest, Jared, weigh in on what you think. 32 00:03:10,140 --> 00:03:13,900 But, you know, I like the first one you have because I hadn't found this reference for it yet. 33 00:03:14,020 --> 00:03:18,540 I've read the – I think the registers coverage and maybe the fabled Business Insider. 34 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:25,820 But it looks like our buddies over at VMware have sold off their vCloud Air to OVH. 35 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:26,900 Did I get that right? 36 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:30,420 A big, coincidentally, French company. 37 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:35,380 Yeah, I mean, I think it's switching to being more of a supplier of technology versus running it themselves. 38 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,460 We saw that last year with some of the Amazon announcement and others. 39 00:03:38,540 --> 00:03:40,080 That seems like a decent trend. 40 00:03:40,180 --> 00:03:42,720 OVH apparently making a big push into the U.S. 41 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:45,000 So, you know, it seems like a good match. 42 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:50,960 And you just wonder as more and more there's just fewer people up for the capital expense of running a cloud. 43 00:03:51,340 --> 00:03:57,300 Yeah, and I think – I mean, there's a general consolidation of public clouds that we comment on here and there. 44 00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:01,580 But that seems to be, as they say, a thing that's going on. 45 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:08,720 Yeah, I mean, we'll be probably talking a year from now and there will be four clouds, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Pivotal. 46 00:04:09,020 --> 00:04:16,480 Yeah, maybe one day we'll actually get to – was it Nicholas Carr or Benjamin Franklin who said, you know, soon there will only be one computer? 47 00:04:17,140 --> 00:04:18,340 I forget which one. 48 00:04:18,460 --> 00:04:24,500 But maybe there will just be the one URL in the cloud that we all go to, which will probably never actually happen. 49 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:26,960 It reminds me of a – I think this was last week. 50 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,140 There was also an interview with the CEO of Rackspace. 51 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:44,220 And it was – as someone who, you know, has covered the public cloud space for quite some time, it was a notable thing along this trend where, you know, I think basically there's – 52 00:04:44,220 --> 00:04:50,260 I guess you could call it a downshifting of them, Rackspace, being a big public cloud competitor. 53 00:04:50,260 --> 00:04:59,380 Because they do also offer, like – they offer their – I don't know if it's patented so much as maybe trademarked fanatical support around helping you run Amazon. 54 00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:14,040 And there was an interesting part in the interview that's easy to look over where he goes over the idea that – I think the way Rackspace is thinking about OpenStack now is a lot more for private cloud running rather than being a public cloud sort of thing, at least for them. 55 00:05:14,260 --> 00:05:17,500 You know, maybe other people who run it would like to position in the public cloud. 56 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,600 But it was a – I don't know how new. 57 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,880 Maybe in the past year or so, it's a notable repositioning that Rackspace has in the cloud space. 58 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:35,080 Yeah, they've been doing that for – I mean, they were the first one that I remember that kind of dropped straight up public cloud and saying, hey, we're going to focus a little more on managed services again. 59 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,240 We're going to be focusing on multi-cloud things. 60 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,200 And, you know, others have followed suit to some extent. 61 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,860 But they were on the track with that. 62 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:47,540 And obviously, even with this one, saying, look, the money is going to be in professional services whether you're even a Rackspace customer or not. 63 00:05:47,620 --> 00:05:51,820 That was – I thought interesting as part of that news that you don't have to be using Rackspace tech. 64 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:52,980 You don't have to be an existing customer. 65 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:55,040 We just want to help you adopt a cloud. 66 00:05:55,260 --> 00:05:56,320 Again, maybe a good strategy. 67 00:05:56,500 --> 00:05:57,460 It's definitely different. 68 00:05:57,580 --> 00:06:00,960 I think it just shows that most cloud providers have to diversify. 69 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:07,460 So in other news, it looks like our friends at the Linux Foundation, they're almost like an all-consuming foundation nowadays. 70 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:09,600 They keep taking on more and more things. 71 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:10,900 It's a foundation of foundations. 72 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:19,940 So, yeah, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, which originally started with Kubernetes and then added Prometheus, I believe, for monitoring, kind of keeps adding more things under some stewardship. 73 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:33,480 So, you know, there's GRPC, which I think Google had started with, some of this core DNS, others, just making it easier, I guess, to have some of these open-source projects with a little more coaching through their lifecycle, making sure there's a little bit more organization. 74 00:06:33,740 --> 00:06:37,240 Not a bad thing, as we all depend a heck of a lot more on open-source than ever before. 75 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:48,320 So, Cloud Foundry Foundation, you know, Linux Foundation, Cloud Native Computing Foundation, we're all kind of under these banners of trying to make sure that open-source doesn't just flame out some of these interesting projects. 76 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,480 Let's make sure that they get some good lift and, you know, we prioritize the right work. 77 00:06:52,480 --> 00:07:01,200 Yeah, and Bridget, she and I had a webinar where we kind of went over briefly the other thing that, sort of in Linux Foundation land, but the Cloud Foundry Foundation. 78 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:11,300 They launched a developer certification program, and, you know, I was lucky enough to read some crib notes and everything, so I'm slightly informed of it. 79 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:23,500 It's interesting to follow kind of an arc of a conversation that you can see at the CFF, the Cloud Foundry Foundation, they've been doing where, maybe you remember, but this is like three or four months ago, they had a survey about organizations doing cloud-native. 80 00:07:23,580 --> 00:07:33,040 And one of the major findings they had was that organizations were a little fearful of their ability to get the skills they need and staff that they have to do things in a cloud-native way. 81 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:50,400 And so this is a – I'm remembering my days of strategy where you identify a problem that's preventing the world from being a way you like, and so you sort of work on a solution to get there, like having a certification program to train developers to have all those cloud-native skills that organizations feel are lacking. 82 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,600 Yeah, you know, it's a pretty cheap exam to take. 83 00:07:53,680 --> 00:08:01,280 From the sounds of it, it takes four hours to do, which just means you're not as rigorous as a CPA or something, but at least you're a good cloud-native developer. 84 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:08,200 And, you know, again, as you have a skills gap, as you're trying to figure out, how do you, first of all, vet existing people you're trying to hire? 85 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:09,760 Like, are they paper experts? 86 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,020 Do they actually do something? 87 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:11,940 Do they know what they're doing? 88 00:08:12,300 --> 00:08:13,520 Hey, you might look for a certification. 89 00:08:13,620 --> 00:08:17,600 Or if you're just trying to up-level your own people, it'd be great to give them this to aspire to. 90 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,400 It's not the end state. 91 00:08:19,620 --> 00:08:21,360 I think it seems like it's a nice proof point. 92 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,280 I'm tempted to take this myself just to see if I actually know what I'm talking about, but I'm terrified of the result. 93 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:32,200 On that note, so as I mentioned, we have a new Pivotal Cloud Foundry release out. 94 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:44,840 And as is the way that we often do things, you actually could have gotten the bits, as they used to say in my day, I don't know how long ago, but we sort of quietly or soft released it. 95 00:08:44,980 --> 00:08:50,100 But today is the day that we had all of the fanfare and the ticketed parade. 96 00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:56,360 I think we're going to have to hire someone to go clean up the streets with all the ticker tape in our cyber streets, as it were. 97 00:08:57,180 --> 00:09:04,400 But Richard and I thought it would be great to – I think we did this last time also when 1.9 or 09 or whatever was out. 98 00:09:04,860 --> 00:09:12,760 But just to kind of get a brief overview of what's in this release and kind of the general themes of it and how things have been going in Pivotal Cloud Foundry land. 99 00:09:12,860 --> 00:09:15,520 Yeah, so I thought we'd chat with Jared about some of the major themes. 100 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:21,140 We also somehow published about 19 blog posts and have a ton of content, a new product page. 101 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:22,920 So we blitzed it. 102 00:09:23,020 --> 00:09:29,640 But I think it's good because this is – I mean, since I've been here, no doubt the biggest release we've done in the last year and probably for the last couple of years. 103 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,500 So, yeah, I don't know if we start off with Jared. 104 00:09:32,660 --> 00:09:36,400 What are the headlines here for somebody looking at PCF 110? 105 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,160 Well, that was one hell of a parade, by the way. 106 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,260 So that was money well spent from the marketing budget. 107 00:09:42,460 --> 00:09:43,320 Elephant was excessive. 108 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:44,380 It was. 109 00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:48,160 I think there's three themes that stand out. 110 00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:57,520 We've done a lot to improve this developer operator workflow, making it easier for those teams to work together and troubleshoot issues, 111 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,640 get access to extensible data services, things of that nature. 112 00:10:02,420 --> 00:10:09,120 There's a second one there around security and compliance, which is always a really big area of focus for us in our product roadmap, 113 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,820 given our focus on the Fortune 2000s. 114 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,240 There's some things there to help customers with that. 115 00:10:14,540 --> 00:10:19,340 And then the last pillar is on Windows Server and .NET. 116 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:23,580 A lot of people, of course, know Pivotal through our support of the Spring framework. 117 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:26,460 So we have a lot of Java goodness going on. 118 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:34,440 And we've been investing a lot the last year and a half or so to offer that same type of experience for the .NET and Windows Server crew. 119 00:10:34,620 --> 00:10:37,560 And there's some nice enhancements in this release for that crowd. 120 00:10:37,900 --> 00:10:41,580 So we look at kind of a stupid term, double click on some of those. 121 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,240 So, I mean, we look at the first pillar or even let's look at the Microsoft one first. 122 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:46,980 I know, Coté, you were interested in this as well. 123 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:52,420 But as we think of what that means, and PCF supported Windows for a little while now. 124 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:58,140 And both Jared and I worked at a company that first created some of the .NET extensions for Cloud Foundry years ago. 125 00:10:58,300 --> 00:11:00,900 But so we've supported it, but it's always been kind of a manual bolt-on. 126 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,760 So why is this different now? 127 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:15,760 Yeah, when operators are looking to really get that immutable infrastructure baseline for their modern applications, that's where some of the things with Bosch and Operations Manager come into play. 128 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,740 There's always been some really strong tools there on the Linux side of the house. 129 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,460 But on Windows, as you mentioned, Richard, there's a bit of a manual process that's there. 130 00:11:25,740 --> 00:11:29,900 And so now in this new release, there's an integrated, really nice user experience. 131 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:34,320 There's a PCF for Windows tile that gets installed. 132 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:49,280 And then from there, operators, system administrators can pave all these fleets of Windows servers in their data center and really manage it in a highly automated way in the same way that a lot of Linux administrators have been able to do for a while now. 133 00:11:49,280 --> 00:12:01,960 So there's a lot of goodness for the operators where they can start to get some of these cattle, not pets type of processes and methodologies for their applications running inside of Pivotal Cloud Foundry. 134 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,400 I mean, it seems like a big deal because that has not been easy, from my experience, in the Microsoft space. 135 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:12,400 And if you use Microsoft tools and System Center and others, you could manage and update and patch fleets of Windows servers. 136 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,400 But these weren't application centric. 137 00:12:14,420 --> 00:12:16,220 This was like managing the VMs. 138 00:12:16,220 --> 00:12:26,940 And so I don't know of any platforms that treat Windows as just this sort of application set that I can patch and replace and update with zero downtime and containerizing support. 139 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:28,100 This feels unique. 140 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:29,940 I mean, I don't know if you see other things in market here, 141 00:12:30,060 --> 00:12:33,240 but it seems like we finally have a good home for .NET apps everywhere. 142 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:33,600 Yeah. 143 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,720 And certainly Microsoft, the Microsoft ecosystem has their own set of tools. 144 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:45,240 But this is, I think, pretty unique in kind of how it's distinct from Microsoft and part of their, you know, overtures, the open source community. 145 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:50,380 We've really, I think, embraced a lot of that and worked with Microsoft on a lot of these initiatives. 146 00:12:51,280 --> 00:13:06,440 And there's also a little bit of uniqueness, too, going back to the Java heritage that we have and our continued investments there with Spring, where when you can run Java and Windows on the same platform, the way that, you know, Pivotal Cloud Foundry really allows you to do in a really nice way. 147 00:13:06,660 --> 00:13:12,600 You get a lot of operational efficiencies without really compromising that developer experience. 148 00:13:12,820 --> 00:13:17,820 Developers can use the tool chains that allow them to build the best apps, use the right tool for the job. 149 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:29,960 And because you're pushing to this platform, you get all these really great economies of scale and gets a really increased velocity on your applications, which is, you know, what we spend a lot of our time talking about. 150 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,260 So now, you know, I'm a simple Java 1.4 caveman. 151 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:40,400 I don't understand all these, like, vagaries of, like, new ways of doing stuff, let alone .NET things. 152 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:45,440 But what I hear is, like, is this something beyond, like, .NET core stuff or whatever? 153 00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:49,240 Like, what does it mean to have, like, .NET support and Windows support? 154 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,580 Is it just sort of, like, now you can do everything? 155 00:13:51,940 --> 00:13:54,680 Or is there some, like, new way of doing, like, .NET things? 156 00:13:54,780 --> 00:13:59,640 Like, what's the set of applications or stuff that it means you can now run in Pivotal Cloud Foundry? 157 00:13:59,740 --> 00:14:06,520 So we talked about some of the things where, as a, at Windows server, operators can run and automate all that kind of stuff. 158 00:14:06,580 --> 00:14:14,740 And so as a developer, you use the .NET framework, and it does get a little bit tricky to parse for us cave people. 159 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,880 Microsoft has done a lot of open source, as we just mentioned. 160 00:14:18,020 --> 00:14:26,060 They have a way you can run some .NET applications on top of Linux VMs, and that's something called .NET Core. 161 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:38,580 But there's a more sort of full-featured version that I think a lot of our customers have really been excited about and, you know, asked that the Pivotal product team kind of step up and invest in. 162 00:14:38,580 --> 00:14:47,080 And that's something called the hosted Web Core for .NET, which allows you to do the full, you know, the full complexity of .NET. 163 00:14:47,580 --> 00:14:51,020 And with that build pack, you can do that in Pivotal Cloud Foundry. 164 00:14:51,160 --> 00:15:02,440 So we have the .NET Core, the lightweight flavor for Linux VMs, and then the hosted Web Core .NET for the richer .NET experience on Windows VMs inside of Pivotal. 165 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:08,880 So you get kind of both flavors depending on how much .NET you want to CF push. 166 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,980 So if I remember a couple of things. 167 00:15:12,140 --> 00:15:20,780 One, Sir Richard was earlier sharing like a nice new, I don't know, tealy-colored diagram of what Pivotal Cloud Foundry looks like. 168 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:28,020 And I think, so we, the two operating systems, you know, stripped down and pared down that you can now run in Pivotal Cloud Foundry. 169 00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:36,640 We have an Ubuntu variant, but now you can run that like stripped down Windows OS in there, which essentially enables all of the stuff you were just talking about. 170 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:37,060 Yeah. 171 00:15:37,220 --> 00:15:37,960 Yeah, that's right. 172 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:46,920 And when you go further deeper into the developer experience, there's another cool thing that we've done for .NET with our SteelToe open source project. 173 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,880 It's now gone commercial where Pivotal customers are now entitled to use SteelToe. 174 00:15:53,140 --> 00:16:00,940 And they take a lot of these really popular microservices patterns from Spring Cloud services and extend them to the world of .NET. 175 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:06,400 So it furthers some of that, you know, microservices tooling that have been popular on the Java side. 176 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,800 And now you can do that same type of thing on the Microsoft side. 177 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:10,980 Yeah, which is pretty nice. 178 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:16,080 I mean, to your original question, Coté, I mean, if I'm using .NET Core is probably the future for Microsoft. 179 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,180 They've invested a ton in that .NET framework on Windows. 180 00:16:19,380 --> 00:16:23,620 I don't believe has the same exciting future, but that's where all the apps are right now. 181 00:16:23,860 --> 00:16:30,140 So when you think about how do I move these apps that, sure, I should be able to run most traditional .NET apps now on PCF. 182 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:36,120 But as I'm looking at how do I build more resilient cloud native ones, that's where SteelToe is kind of cool, where I can have a service registry. 183 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,600 And look up services at runtime. 184 00:16:37,820 --> 00:16:41,820 Or I can have a get back config store to store all my sensitive values. 185 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:44,360 I don't want to embed in my application code. 186 00:16:44,460 --> 00:16:47,120 Or I want connectors to things like RabbitMQ or Reddit. 187 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:48,600 So it's a pretty cool library. 188 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:55,140 These .NET devs are trying to get a little closer to the rest of this open source ecosystem and this sort of resilient pattern design. 189 00:16:55,140 --> 00:17:06,240 I think it's kind of neat that we're trying to create parity for all dev types and language becomes just a personal preference versus something that you're sacrificing dramatic functionality when you choose one language or the other. 190 00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:06,720 Yeah. 191 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:07,040 Yeah. 192 00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:12,420 I mean, effectively, and we see this when we visit with large organizations and customers. 193 00:17:12,620 --> 00:17:17,040 I mean, there's, as you were kind of alluding to, there's just developers who want to develop software, right? 194 00:17:17,060 --> 00:17:20,500 They don't care what set of NASCAR logos are on the side. 195 00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:25,660 They just want to, like, deploy their software and have an enjoyable, productive time doing it. 196 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:26,660 I think that's exciting stuff. 197 00:17:26,660 --> 00:17:33,780 I mean, you know, the other underrated piece with all these multi-polyglot stuff on PCF is that the experience is the same, as Jared pointed out. 198 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:35,040 The CF pushes the same. 199 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,540 They all get the same monitoring, the same auto-scaling, the same containerization logging. 200 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:46,580 So nobody's a second-class citizen, which is unique because, again, sometimes you push to a certain platform and, well, these apps kind of get the special treatment. 201 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:51,040 Here's some weird hooks to add so we can monitor your stuff or put this agent on your box. 202 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:53,880 I haven't met a dev who wants to care about any of that. 203 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,840 Like, just let me build good apps, and your machinery and your platform should take care of it for me. 204 00:17:59,080 --> 00:17:59,300 Absolutely. 205 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:09,340 Well, that raises the other thing you mentioned, Jared, and something that I'm always – having worked at BMC Software doing systems management and monitoring, 206 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,740 I'm always fascinated with the instrumentation of monitoring that people do. 207 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,980 So why don't you give us a little overview of the sort of depth of monitoring-ness that we have in this release? 208 00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:24,140 Yeah, we have the PCF Metrics module that's part of the commercial subscription with Pivotal Cloud Foundry. 209 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,520 I think this was introduced about a year ago, and there's been a really nice, steady drumbeat of enhancements to this module. 210 00:18:30,180 --> 00:18:35,500 A lot of our customers said, hey, Pivotal, this is where your applications – our applications run on your platform. 211 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:47,540 This is really a problem that you guys need to go solve and give developers and operators a shared repository to draw information from – to troubleshoot and help figure out what's happening with the system. 212 00:18:47,540 --> 00:19:00,820 So we've added, you know, metrics and logs and events and had, you know, longer retention periods, really nice timeline views to understand how the element of time plays into this use case. 213 00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:08,340 I think the really cool thing in this new release is distributed tracing, which in some ways is maybe the secret sauce, if you will, 214 00:19:08,340 --> 00:19:15,740 for understanding microservices architectures, where you've got, you know, hundreds or thousands of services all interacting with each other. 215 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,720 The complexity in the system is not in your source code. 216 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,720 It's in how all those services are interacting with each other. 217 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:23,640 That's well put. 218 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:35,860 Yeah, and so with distributed tracing, you can see how a trace or actual almost like user flow or request goes through the system across all these different services, 219 00:19:35,860 --> 00:19:51,040 and you can understand where latency may have occurred, failures may have occurred, and it's a really interesting intuitive visual display so that, you know, any engineer at your company can probably do a pretty decent job of finding out what's going on in the system. 220 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:56,220 And this, you know, makes every developer sort of a global troubleshooter, which is a nice thing to have. 221 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:04,020 And also, a lot of these systems are so complex, there isn't really any one person that can understand end-to-end what's going on. 222 00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:12,080 So this is a really nice thing that is a little bit of the cherry on top for how you troubleshoot microservices. 223 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,740 You talk to that team, they'll tell you there's much more left to be done still. 224 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:20,780 But distributed tracing is a thing that this community has been, you know, looking at, you know, for a while, 225 00:20:20,820 --> 00:20:23,360 and there's various open source projects that people can use. 226 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:32,560 And so now there's some of that, you know, commercial feeding and care that we're giving customers to make distributed tracing really straightforward. 227 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:41,360 If y'all and the listeners will allow me a, I don't know, to perhaps dive too deeply into the monitoring cold pool, so to speak. 228 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:45,500 Yeah, you know, I mean, there's three things that I was thinking about as I was looking over this. 229 00:20:45,580 --> 00:20:52,060 One is that, like, we can all agree that sort of, like, breadth and depth of monitoring, as you were talking about, 230 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:58,400 is vital for, I don't know, the distributed applications that one does in a cloud-native environment, right? 231 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,340 So inherently, all of the types of application development you do on top of Pivotal Cloud Foundry 232 00:21:03,340 --> 00:21:07,440 or any of these other cloud-native things are effectively distributed applications, 233 00:21:07,780 --> 00:21:11,580 which back when I was raised as a developer was sort of, like, I don't know, 234 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,620 the ninth or tenth level of hell as far as, like, intellectual difficulty. 235 00:21:17,620 --> 00:21:23,060 But since then, we have filled in the pool of those levels, and now it's quite easy. 236 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,280 But the ability to monitor those is always difficult, 237 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,580 and so it's good to have the breadth and the depth of it. 238 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,180 But I think I'll release this episode after this one, 239 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,280 but Andrew Schaefer and I, we did another little book report episode about the Google SRE book. 240 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,760 And there's a third thing that kind of, another one of these things that you intuitively know, 241 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:47,200 but that especially at the scale of management and the speed at which people would be managing things 242 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,840 running on Pivotal Cloud Foundry, that you kind of learn or intuit from that book, 243 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,900 which is it's really handy to standardize on the way that you do your monitoring, 244 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:58,180 which immediately comes out from how the Google SREs operate. 245 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:04,120 And I think that's the part, I mean, honestly, I don't know how our customers and users are doing the following, 246 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,280 but I think the intention is that, in addition to the partners that we have that will give you more in-depth look 247 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,460 into doing your basic monitoring and systems management, 248 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,820 but there is a standardized way of doing monitoring, 249 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,180 and therefore figuring out how to troubleshoot and manage the applications that you have, 250 00:22:19,180 --> 00:22:26,480 which I think is pretty vital for the scale of distributed applications that our customers aspire to be using us for. 251 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,820 Yeah, I mean, from what you even mentioned, Coté, from your old days of monitoring, 252 00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:33,220 it's just funny how the space has changed now. 253 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,200 I mean, now I've got containers that live for a few hours. 254 00:22:36,340 --> 00:22:41,700 I've got no real versions anymore because I can never recreate the state of when things actually broke yesterday 255 00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:46,540 because all the components are different, and everything's asynchronous, multiple threads, multiple servers. 256 00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:51,860 So, like, the whole nature of what it even means to collect logs and recreate the situation is different. 257 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,140 So, it's all got to be about how am I using, as you mentioned, either standardized tools or better visibility 258 00:22:57,140 --> 00:23:00,860 to quickly find out something bad happened, how do I fix it? 259 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:05,780 And if you're slogging through logs on every individual machine and SSH-ing in and reading logs 260 00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:12,300 and, you know, trying to piece together how 14 microservices talk to each other, like, what a disaster that is. 261 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,140 So, I think we've kind of seen someone here at Pivotal mentioned this to me. 262 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,700 I don't know who to credit with it, but we've almost seen this interesting trajectory of, 263 00:23:19,820 --> 00:23:21,960 I want to build microservices. Great, there's Spring Boot. 264 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,160 Okay, I'm trying to do things that are complicated. I don't know how to do that. 265 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,980 Great, now there's Spring Cloud. Where the hell am I supposed to run this? 266 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,520 Oh, great, there's Pivotal Cloud Foundry. 267 00:23:29,620 --> 00:23:34,780 Like, there's this natural progression that we're doing more complicated things to solve more interesting problems, 268 00:23:34,940 --> 00:23:39,700 but at some point, it's great to have a platform that's trying to simplify some aspects of it for you. 269 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,920 Exactly. Yeah, and it must be, like, five or ten episodes back, but there's a, 270 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:50,420 back at SpringOne Platform, there's a good episode I had with Marcin talking about Sleuth, 271 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:56,620 and it's, you know, it's a part of this overall idea of how you do monitoring in Pivotal Cloud Foundry, 272 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:01,240 but it's, that's a good overview of how, as an application developer, 273 00:24:01,860 --> 00:24:05,680 you can start to think about, as we would say in my day, 274 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:11,700 instrumenting your applications or making it possible to easily manage and monitor your applications, 275 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,120 which I think is, I, you know, that's another, is this true? 276 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,980 Maybe not so widely talked about notion in the DevOps world of developers being very cognizant 277 00:24:20,980 --> 00:24:23,580 of how things are going to be monitored and managed in production, 278 00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:26,540 and from my old-timer perspective, 279 00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:31,380 you have the luxury of actually modifying your application to make it monitorable, 280 00:24:31,620 --> 00:24:33,480 which was not always the case. 281 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,460 No, and correct me if I'm wrong, first of all, Jerry, I mean, I think, first of all, 282 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,740 this is not Spring-specific, so if you want to do Node, you know, Java, Go, Python, 283 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:49,360 those all work with tracing, but also I believe we kind of target the dev audience purposely with metrics. 284 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:53,500 Like, we love the APM space, we love New Relic, Dynatrace, AppD, all these great partners 285 00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:56,320 who do some really rich app performance monitoring. 286 00:24:56,700 --> 00:25:00,960 I think the goal of metrics was also to help developers have a good tool, you know, 287 00:25:01,020 --> 00:25:05,220 I'm getting some nice insight into the platform, but it's almost a little more dev-centric, hasn't it been? 288 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:10,680 Yeah, I think so, and you look at what the, what those, you know, SRE kind of roles are doing, 289 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,680 you know, the lines are certainly, you know, blurred to a pretty strong degree, 290 00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:18,080 but, yeah, I think this is really for that, you know, developer kind of audience, 291 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,040 and it's really geared towards, I think that the logs are the other thing that really stand out, 292 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:25,780 where the system retains a lot of the logs that get thrown off the application. 293 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:31,920 And so, again, for those, you know, brave souls that go on call, this makes their life just a little bit easier. 294 00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:38,380 So you made a, or Coté and I can tag team on this one, but as we look at the security stuff that we did, 295 00:25:38,740 --> 00:25:41,040 I guess I wanted to start with, you know, there's a few things there, 296 00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:42,780 but I wanted to start with some of the reference architecture work, 297 00:25:42,820 --> 00:25:45,340 because you actually co-authored some papers on this. 298 00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:50,580 Can you tell us a little bit about the genesis of why that relates to security and what these papers are? 299 00:25:51,540 --> 00:25:57,020 Yeah, there's the phrase, the frozen middle, that we like to throw around here a little bit. 300 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:02,680 And the conversations with, you know, businesses and being able to do their software better, 301 00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:05,560 they've really shifted from why to how. 302 00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:11,700 And so there certainly aren't, you know, magic documents like PDFs or white papers that will, you know, solve that problem. 303 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,600 But the reference architectures and the work that we've been doing to thaw that frozen middle 304 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,380 should help a little bit with the how. 305 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,800 So as we look at, you know, customers, once they've kind of, you know, bought into this whole cloud native idea, 306 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,140 you know, it's sort of the now what, you know, kind of approach. 307 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,360 So we talk about what's included in the platform, what you get with it, you know, why that stuff, you know, matters, 308 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:41,520 how you deploy the platform on top of infrastructure, because, you know, VMware is different, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google are all different. 309 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:47,500 And then taking a look at the actual applications themselves, how do you actually build a microservices app 310 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:51,880 on top of this platform using, you know, Spring, Spring Cloud Services, things of that nature. 311 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,760 So there's a look at all those different levels. 312 00:26:55,420 --> 00:27:02,620 And then we focused in on, again, security in some areas, namely in the on-premises data center with things like, you know, 313 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,900 NSX and network virtualization that can really help kind of get buttoned up. 314 00:27:07,540 --> 00:27:13,620 So there's security compliance, you know, woven throughout those documents, especially since our big security, you know, 315 00:27:13,660 --> 00:27:17,060 motto is, you know, having it built in rather than bolted on later. 316 00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:21,960 So a couple of the tech features, I mean, you mentioned the VMware stuff and the NSX stuff, which is interesting. 317 00:27:22,340 --> 00:27:25,420 I guess, tell us a little bit about the kind of what that play is. 318 00:27:25,580 --> 00:27:30,640 Like, why does someone care that NSX and PCF are now BFFs, if I can add more acronyms? 319 00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:37,040 Yeah, this is a little bit of the confess your unpopular opinion kind of session where you talk about people that, you know, 320 00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:40,240 are building in on-prem data centers and private cloud. 321 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:46,820 You know, you can make a really compelling economic argument for the on-premises data center when you've got, you know, 322 00:27:46,860 --> 00:27:52,020 a baseline virtualization layer, network virtualization, and then Pivotal Cloud Foundry on top of that. 323 00:27:52,060 --> 00:27:58,620 You've got some really good, you know, full stack automation there that you can rival a lot of the things that you do in the public cloud 324 00:27:58,620 --> 00:28:05,120 in terms of those advanced services. So when you have PCF and NSX and then the hypervisor layer with vSphere, 325 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,340 things like that, you get a really compelling, you know, way to, again, 326 00:28:09,420 --> 00:28:13,520 breathe more life into your on-prem, you know, data centers for the next, you know, five, seven years or so. 327 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,560 So I think that's really one of the big things in terms of the overall business case. 328 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,160 And then when you get NSX and PCF together, life is just generally a lot easier 329 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:30,800 because you get the same configuration. As you expand your PCF footprint, firewall rules get easier to manage. 330 00:28:31,340 --> 00:28:34,960 And then as organizations look to this zero-trust security model, 331 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,220 it's easier to enforce those policies, you know, globally across the data center. 332 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,000 In the past, there would be this notion of a trusted network and an untrusted network. 333 00:28:44,860 --> 00:28:51,840 In this day and age with complex architectures and microservices, you can't really have this trusted and not trusted type of approach. 334 00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:56,900 So if you assume that everything is not trusted, you're going to be a lot better off and a lot more, 335 00:28:57,580 --> 00:28:58,900 you know, have a better security posture. 336 00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:05,980 And so with software to find everything along the way, you really reduce your attack surface, if you will. 337 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,880 Right. So one thing container networking folks can read up on, but the isolation segments always struck me as interesting. 338 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,300 You want to kind of describe what that is, why that matters? 339 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:23,300 Yeah. When customers want their applications, their data to be separated from other workloads inside of Pivotal Cloud Foundry, 340 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:29,520 they'd have to spin up a whole other foundation, which is a little bit clunky for a lot of operators. 341 00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:35,900 It's a little bit harder to keep permissions in sync and just overall, it's a tax on the day-to-day running of the platform. 342 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:42,760 Now, isolation segments, they can deploy an app to a specific set of VM hosts. 343 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,020 So they can have a dedicated, you know, network to access those workloads. 344 00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:54,720 And then you get the logical isolation there for those apps, which is important for a lot of internal compliance standards 345 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:02,000 and is oftentimes a key building block for PCI, for people that you keep track of credit cards and payment information. 346 00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:09,100 So it's a nice integrated tile, integrated into the command line interface and is integrated into the rest of the platform. 347 00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:11,300 So it gives you some of that isolation. 348 00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:16,820 And so now it just makes that element of running a platform day-to-day that much more straightforward. 349 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,260 Now, if there's anything I'm dumber on than security, it's networking. 350 00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:24,760 So allow me to embarrass myself here. 351 00:30:25,020 --> 00:30:34,460 But so is that like isolation achieved through some sort of like router level, like, you know, strong arming to prevent like various services talking with each other? 352 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,560 So you sort of set it up and there's basically like, as you say, you have one Pivotal Cloud Foundry foundation. 353 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:49,540 So one cloud, if you will, but it's making sure that various types of services or network traffic doesn't really know about each other, even though it's running on the same hardware. 354 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,080 Yeah, I mean, I think some of that's where, you know, network isolation comes into play. 355 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,580 But the biggest feature is when I see a push, those workloads go to dedicated hardware. 356 00:30:57,940 --> 00:30:58,040 Right. 357 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:04,400 So I can have these two servers that are PCI, these three that have some sort of GPU processing because I'm doing some weird batch jobs. 358 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:10,160 And so I'm at least making sure that the host running the apps, that's not spanning the rest of the environment. 359 00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:12,260 You can also, again, do some routing isolation. 360 00:31:12,860 --> 00:31:15,560 But I believe it's really about giving some of that host level affinity. 361 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:23,720 That's interesting because as you're alluding to, like, I often come across customers of ours who run multiple foundations. 362 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,580 And I'm sure there's many logical reasons to do it. 363 00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:33,440 But it seems like the ultimate end goal and the happy future is that you would just have the one cloud that you're running everything in. 364 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,600 And so getting closer to that always seems fantastic. 365 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,880 You know, the other place I thought I'd quick zig and zag you for just a moment. 366 00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:45,780 One of the things that's maybe an underrated part of the release, but around persistent storage and volume services. 367 00:31:46,260 --> 00:31:50,180 So, you know, this idea of actually bringing stateful workloads to PCF. 368 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:51,600 And, of course, all apps have state. 369 00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:55,380 You know, they're either in a database or a cache or object storage or whatever. 370 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:05,580 But actually be able to have an NFS file mount available in my container to write logs to or migrate some existing app that expects a local file system, doesn't know what to do with object storage. 371 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:06,900 That seems like a big deal. 372 00:32:07,020 --> 00:32:11,960 Does that, you know, as you were talking to even field people and getting people ready for this, did that click with folks? 373 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,160 Are people excited about that? 374 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:14,620 I think so. 375 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:21,000 And it goes back to kind of what we talked about a little bit earlier with, you know, Java and .NET being able to run the same platform. 376 00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:29,720 A lot of the features that we add to the platform and a lot of what we hear from customers is help make Pivotal Cloud Foundry a big tent for all my applications. 377 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:38,360 Even these ones that, you know, may not have, you know, the full 12-factor, you know, design principles or may not be API first or microservices first. 378 00:32:38,460 --> 00:32:46,240 And certainly this, these, you know, volume services, you know, fit that category of older things sitting in a data center, you know, most likely. 379 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,020 And so, you know, a lot of customers say, I like how PCF treats these more modern applications. 380 00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:55,120 Is there a way you can help me with these other things that are maybe not so modern? 381 00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:01,640 And we always, I think, take this notion of lift and shift and say, you know, be careful with that type of approach. 382 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:11,420 But now this is at least one more toolkit for the customer to pick and choose how they may want to decompose or break down some of these older things where there's now another option. 383 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:29,760 And then once they embrace that option, they can have just that another class of application running on PCF and then take advantage of those developer and operator efficiencies from having a large platform that can run a wide range of applications, regardless of sort of, you know, what maturity model they're in, architecturally speaking. 384 00:33:30,020 --> 00:33:33,700 I mean, I know we think of that almost as cloud native storage if you do it right. 385 00:33:33,780 --> 00:33:40,520 So it's not just kind of putting workloads onto some sort of box that doesn't let you delete the containers because, hey, at least you'll be able to store the state. 386 00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:45,920 It's like, no, this should still kind of be a backing service, but let's make it one that's native to that sort of app. 387 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,980 So, again, try not to compromise too much because we're trying to help people build more scalable apps. 388 00:33:50,980 --> 00:34:00,340 But bringing more of the natural constructs, I don't know, lowering the barrier to entry for some of those apps is one less thing you have to do when you refactor, if you want to refactor. 389 00:34:00,580 --> 00:34:01,560 That seems like that's handy. 390 00:34:01,980 --> 00:34:09,100 Yeah, especially when you have companies that are kind of now going all in on some of this, you know, platform ideas that we've been talking about. 391 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:15,860 You know, we have, you know, done a nice job in helping companies get more modern, you know, middleware at the heart of their business systems. 392 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,220 Certainly a lot of the greenfield new applications. 393 00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:21,060 You can't just take the fun stuff. 394 00:34:21,180 --> 00:34:31,800 There's some other things there, too, that you need to, you know, prioritize and build features for that are going to help the customer, you know, sort of along this, you know, longer digital transformation type of journey. 395 00:34:32,180 --> 00:34:34,360 I think that's a pretty good whirlwind tour of everything. 396 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:44,680 Do you think, having toiled away, to use another SRE term, at documenting this, Jared, do you think there's anything that we're missing out on? 397 00:34:44,820 --> 00:34:47,920 Are there any favorite children that we're not addressing? 398 00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:56,920 I think that, you know, one of the hidden gems, you know, Richard mentioned this idea, is new APIs for our operations manager, you know, module. 399 00:34:57,140 --> 00:35:01,620 We talked about this a little bit earlier, getting a bit of a boost on the Windows side. 400 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:09,500 There's a set of new APIs that are out there so that customers can essentially automate a lot more of what they're doing with the platform. 401 00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:12,700 They can automate the deployment of the platform itself. 402 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,740 Customers want to do that. 403 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,400 And we have a platform that can sort of be continuously deployed, you know, itself. 404 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,680 So kind of a weird inception there thing to think about. 405 00:35:21,780 --> 00:35:24,260 But it's something that customers can do often. 406 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,680 So these APIs will definitely help with that. 407 00:35:26,740 --> 00:35:32,640 And it also helps the customer redeploy, you know, tiles for, you know, add-on services or other components. 408 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,140 And then, of course, their applications. 409 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,720 So the APIs are kind of, you know, another one of those hidden gems I'd encourage people to take a look at. 410 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:44,720 And for a lot of customers that have been, you know, long-time users of PCF, these will be, you know, welcome enhancements. 411 00:35:45,580 --> 00:35:50,160 Yeah, I know we're looking also for some feedback on people using container networking now, which is baked in. 412 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,780 Like, we want feedback on that before it goes final, GA, beta, and this release. 413 00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:55,140 And then same with tasks. 414 00:35:55,540 --> 00:35:59,180 If you're doing one-off jobs in the platform, that's baked into Apps Manager. 415 00:35:59,340 --> 00:36:02,420 But we're looking for how customers want to use kind of one-off jobs. 416 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,680 And we're introducing some cool new things in the next few weeks we'll talk about then. 417 00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:12,660 But as customers now are thinking of, you know, database migrations, alert notifications, you know, cash warm-ups. 418 00:36:12,820 --> 00:36:15,080 How do they want to use one-off jobs in the platform? 419 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,380 You can do it now point and click. 420 00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:22,020 But, you know, as you as a customer listening or even you as a pivotal employee, use this stuff, give us feedback. 421 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:23,780 It's going to help make it a better product. 422 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,960 Well, so, Richard, you mentioned there's, what did you say, 15 to 30 blog posts on this topic? 423 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,500 Yeah, not to mention all the documentation got repressed. 424 00:36:32,620 --> 00:36:33,700 There's some awesome new docs. 425 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,360 There's a whole new pivotal.io slash platform page for PCF. 426 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,280 So, yeah, there's, I think, six blog posts, plus one from VMware themselves on their blog. 427 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,680 So, lots of great stuff. 428 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,380 Yeah, no, that sounds good. 429 00:36:46,540 --> 00:36:48,140 Well, thanks for being on, Jared. 430 00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:50,880 I think it was a good overview of what we had. 431 00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:55,820 And, yeah, I mean, we'll put a link to the show notes to the, I don't know what you would call it, the main blog post, 432 00:36:56,020 --> 00:37:02,080 which references all the details on various things and a few other things we didn't detail out and has links to them. 433 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,760 And there's, of course, the release notes, which I was reading through earlier today. 434 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,700 I was thinking, like, I remember, again, being a Java 1.4 caveman, 435 00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:15,600 I used to get very excited when a new version of Eclipse would come out, and I would set aside some time to read through the release notes. 436 00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:20,060 It's a similar enjoyable experience if your life is as exciting as mine was back then. 437 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,120 This is why lunch with you is always my favorite thing. 438 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:23,760 That's right. 439 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:24,300 That's right. 440 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,380 What did we talk about? 441 00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:26,200 I'll release notes. 442 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:26,680 That's right. 443 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,280 And, Jose, it's the anchor blog post. 444 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,020 We like to use nautical terms wherever we can. 445 00:37:30,220 --> 00:37:31,840 Ah, yes, the anchor blog post. 446 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,080 Of course, because we're in the clouds. 447 00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:36,900 So the nautical terminology goes to space. 448 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,020 That makes sense. 449 00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:40,580 Always be shipping, so the nautical metaphors abound. 450 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,220 On that note, as always, this has been Pivotal Conversations. 451 00:37:44,460 --> 00:37:49,860 If you want to get the episodes as quickly as possible, the best thing to do is subscribe to the podcast feed, 452 00:37:49,860 --> 00:37:53,720 which you can find in iTunes or Overcast or wherever you might listen to these things. 453 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:59,520 You can find that feed, if you don't deign to search in aforementioned podcast directories, 454 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,860 by going to soundcloud.com slash pivotalconversations. 455 00:38:03,060 --> 00:38:06,880 And if you prefer to listen to things in web browsers, you can listen there, which is totally fine. 456 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:10,520 Also, we post the show notes at pivotal.io slash podcast. 457 00:38:10,860 --> 00:38:14,540 And we'll have a link to the – I think the count's increased as we're talking. 458 00:38:14,620 --> 00:38:15,900 There's about 50 blog posts, right? 459 00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:21,840 There's an extensive write-up, all keying off the anchor, going over what's in this new feature. 460 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,000 And with that, we'll see everyone next time. 461 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:31,940 Now, just for a little Easter egg at the beginning, I want to throw – before we wrap up and I tell you where to get the podcast episode, 462 00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:37,100 I want to – since we're talking about space, so to bring it back here to DevOps, Paris, 463 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,240 I've been hanging out with our friend Bob, who's on my team. 464 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:46,200 And I was noting to him that it seems like in these space movies with long-term space travel, 465 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,460 the people who work on the – you know, what do you call it? 466 00:38:49,460 --> 00:38:52,460 The stasis, like you get frozen in place for a 10-year journey? 467 00:38:52,660 --> 00:38:58,720 Anyways, sort of like in the same way that every character in a zombie movie has never actually seen a zombie movie, 468 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,360 so they don't instantly realize that they're in a zombie movie and therefore should not approach the zombies. 469 00:39:03,580 --> 00:39:12,320 I feel like the chirostasis engineers haven't realized that every single time you freeze someone in space travel, 470 00:39:12,540 --> 00:39:15,860 at least one of the machines breaks, so they should pay more attention to it. 471 00:39:16,140 --> 00:39:24,440 So that's a message I want to get out to any future space travel people is spend a lot of time QAing your space stasis things 472 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,760 because one of them is going to crack and all sorts of problems are going to happen. 473 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,380 It makes sense. 474 00:39:30,420 --> 00:39:33,960 When they're studying our civilization 1,000 years from now, they will find this podcast. 475 00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:34,500 Exactly. 476 00:39:35,020 --> 00:39:39,740 They'll know that if there's a human stumbling around that's acting kind of odd, 477 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,500 do not place your hand in its mouth. 478 00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:42,500 Pro tip. 479 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,040 Or tap them on the shoulder and ask them if they're okay. 480 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,100 Just keep your distance. 481 00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:53,340 And then make sure that the glass on your cryogenic space chamber doesn't crack. 482 00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:54,660 Just focus on that. 483 00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:56,140 Where do you live by?