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Well here we are at Dell EMC World. Now, I always think that our own conference is named

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pretty well, but this one, got a good name going for it. Very, very, how do you say that

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in French? Portman 2? That's right. It's an amalgamation. Let's make it really clear

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about what this is about. And we have graciously been given a press room. We're like in the

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big leagues now. I know. We've got a whole little room that's got a big TV in it. Do

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you spend a lot of time in rooms like this? Not if I have a choice, but I mean these sort

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of pop-up conference rooms really. And I feel like I'm in prison. That's good.

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Exactly. So this is like the last day. We've been here three days now. I think yesterday

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was our busiest day. We had a presentation. We were on a live thing with the guy with red

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shoes. He had two red shoes, not just one. So that checks out. And I think I was on the

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Cube. That was fun. I don't know. What do you think of this thing? We spent a lot of time

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discussing since we were going to be presenting like who's going to be in the room. Do you

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think we had a good characterization of it? I think we nailed it in terms of who actually

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attends this conference. And again, it's bigger than I thought. It's my first Dell EMC world.

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I guess it's the first one, period, since there never was a Dell EMC world before. But I think

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like 8,000 people at this bad boy. In our session. Yeah, in our session alone, it was like 79,

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950. But no, look, it's a more business-oriented crowd. This is not where hackers and developers

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are spending their days. I think it's a little more ops-focused, more sport coat-focused. But

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at the same time, we had the nice crowd in our own group. And it seems like folks are definitely

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hungry for what we're doing as there were lots of unconscious head nods as you were delivering

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talks about transformation. Yeah. I mean, we gave the standard like how to do software better. And you

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had a great demo of a config server and just getting it up and running in PCF or Pivotal Cloud Foundry,

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as people like to say. And yeah, I think there were some people who like they left early from the

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session because they wanted to get to other things. But pretty much there was people nodding along.

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There was one person I was watching who rolled his eyes every now and then. But I think he was a good

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barometer of like, this is the marketing nonsense that, you know, everyone says that needs to be backed up.

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So that's comforting, at least. Yeah, that was a pivotal person. No, I'm just kidding.

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No, but for the most part, as you drop some of your standard lines about, you know, the need for, well,

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first of all, are you able to deliver every week? Right.

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Everyone's eyes drop because no one wants to make eye contact with you when you ask that question.

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Because no one in that room particularly, in most rooms, is able to say that their software is set up

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and their delivery process is set up to ship weekly. And you're telling people they need to be able to.

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And then you say, are you? And it's like, sigh. Like, no, I don't know.

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So, I mean, I think that's good for these rooms that, you know, we even heard before we went on the

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interview with the Red Shoes guy that he said, hey, can you guys be a little more,

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I don't know, realistic about some of the concerns? Because sometimes these chats are very much like,

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hey, everything's awesome. Microservices, DevOps, Cloud, everybody's doing it, you know, jump up in the air.

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And I think that we also hit that point pretty well in our talk. And I think people just want to hear that.

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Yeah, yeah.

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A, this isn't super easy. And B, not everyone's done yet and you're not way behind. Like, catch up or get moving.

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Right.

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But you're not like 10 years behind your peers.

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Yeah, there was a panel I went to that James Watters was on, our very own James Watters.

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And I think they also had the, let's see if I remember, they had Chris Wolf from VMware, who is,

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I don't know if he's the CTO or one of the CTOs or a CTO of something, but he's, you know,

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speaks authoritatively on stuff. And then there was, there was, I guess, the technical person from

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Virtustream was there. And then they had someone, he was from Canada? Like, some university or big

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institution in Canada. I feel like it was maybe Saskatchewan, but maybe I just like saying that word.

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Sure.

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And then, and then who am I missing? There was, there was the, a Dell EMC person as well. And

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yeah, it was, it was interesting. You know, the whole topic was about cloud trends, but

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it was, you know, I came, I've been to like three Dell worlds, I think. And when I was,

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the first few times I worked at Dell and I worked on cloud strategy. So I sort of knew what the

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strategy was. And, and it's, it's interesting that the, the sort of overall, at least represented by

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that panel speaking point of what cloud strategy is, was actually about applications and like

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managing your applications and doing things with it. You know, I guess on the Virtustream side,

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it's, it's a lot of what they do is, you know, managing your ERP applications and things like

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that. And then all the way to the, the pivotal side is like managing the applications you write

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yourself. But I don't know. I think that's great. That's what I'm, I'm like, I'm like even more

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biased now that I work at pivotal, but even when I was an analyst, I was biased because I used to be a

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developer, but that's what I would always try to walk people to is like storage is great. This other

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thing is, is fantastic, but really like applications are, are what, what you want to focus on for this

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aside from SAS, right? Like SAS is itself an application, but not one that you, uh, you sort of

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like we're finally in sync from a technology. And then whatever the heck you want to call it the

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business, which I hate that designation. Yeah. Yeah. All the freaking business. Yeah. Is HR the

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business? No, it's HR. Nonetheless, technology and non-technology teams are finally on the same

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page. I think cause you're talking about apps, you're talking about that thing that they use or

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they want to give to their customers or what have you. No one cares if you have a great VPN story

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like that just doesn't, it's, it's important. Did you say a great VPN story? Yeah. That's,

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you know, I started using that cloak VPN. Have you ever used that? It's, it's, it's just,

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it's, uh, it's actually interestingly, uh, I, I realized I interrupted your train of thought

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there, but, uh, the, uh, they were purchased. Remember that security company that came out

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of stealth all of a sudden and had already like several hundred million in funding. And

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it was headed by the, one of the former founders of a soft layer stack path. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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And, and they, they, they had that in that same announcements announced that they had bought

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cloak, but anyways, uh, and, and it's a fast, I bring it up because I think it kind of

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aligns with what we're, uh, the, uh, the forest were wangling around here is it's that app that

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you install on your phone and also on your desktop. And it just automatically like gives

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you a VPN, of course, to their centralized things. So you have to trust them, but it's

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sort of like having configured and used corporate VPNs for many years. It's just like, it like

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truly is seamless. Like it just works. Yeah. And those things don't matter. It's just

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I want it to be so almost non, it's not even a talking point. And exactly. I mean, that's

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what I'm kind of like, like, uh, sauntering towards is like, I think, I think a lot of

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that stuff, it used to be necessary and difficult and therefore tedious and costly. Whereas now

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like with cloak, again, there's this whole thing of like, Oh, you've got to trust their data

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center. Cause if you know how VPN works, but whatever, just assume that you could route

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it through your own thing or, or you trusted them. Like, it's just like, it's easy. It's

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like a commodity to some extent. And I think, I think what that does, and I forget who I was

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discussing this with here. Maybe, maybe it was you, but like, uh, that basically, Oh, it

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was Peter Christie from an analyst at four or five one. Like there's all this resource, resources

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that you free up in corporate it to like, I guess you could get rid of them. That's always

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a, uh, uh, a favorite choice of some people, or you can allocate them to do more valuable

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things. And, and like, I don't know your VPN things, an example, right? Like, do you really

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need an extensive VPN team or do I need to sell that to the head of marketing? Like I hope

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not, like I'm not doing things right. If I'm talking to them about Dell servers, EMC storage,

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or even, you know, any of these components, they're super important. Like you can't function

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without these things, but that should not be something that goes to a board meeting and says,

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look, we're going to switch storage providers. Like, Oh my gosh, what that that's not differentiating

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my business at this point. So I just like that. We're talking at the app layer because apps

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are what matter. Data is what matters. You know, AI matters, machine learning, all these

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things that are trying to make me better at business through technology. And none of those

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things sit below what we call the value line. Yeah. And on that note, I mean, this reminds

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me of two things. One, I was on a, uh, a panel a long time ago. One of these like, you

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know, let's get together a bunch of, uh, they weren't attractive looking because I was

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there, but you know, let's get together a bunch of it people and record them talking about

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how cool it is. And I was sitting next to the, uh, the Safeway CIO and he was saying

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like, I don't want to build another data center ever. Right. He's, and then he told this, this

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great story of like, well, everything was cool. And then one of the AC units broke down and

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then it leaked. And that's like, that's not a good scene. And, and, and, and then so there's

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that. And then I was just talking with a, uh, uh, a pretty senior executive at a, at a very

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large company here this week who was saying, um, yeah, I've got this huge data center of

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storage that I don't really need anymore. Like I need some, I need to do something with

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it. And it, and it is like, I think you hear more and more of those stories of, and it's

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not so much like this used to be posed as a, I would, I would nuancedly phrase it as

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I, as is taking over private data centers. It's more of, I think what we're talking about

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where, well, the way you solve that problem is not a big deal anymore. Like you don't need

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to nurture and run it on your own. It's taken care of whether it's VPN or, you know, storage,

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just generic storage and all these things. I think that's one reason why I don't like

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the sticker t-shirt picture I keep seeing of people who say like cloud is just someone else's

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computer. Har, har, har. For me, I think that's dumb because it's not just someone else's

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computer. It's a different way of computing. And so it's not just, I literally picked up

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my server and now it's an Amazon. It's now I treat servers as this sort of disposable

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thing that I get anytime, anywhere, and everything else is taken care of. So it's not someone

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else's computer. It's an entirely different thing. And so again, I think that's what is

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interesting here. You mentioned the point of, you know, what happens to people who get

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displaced as these things become more commodity. Look, we have, you know, I'm working on a

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number of these case studies with Pivotal around replatforming. And sure, when people

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can say, look, I can turn off a bunch of machines because now I just have a smart Pivotal Cloud

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Foundry fabric on top. Like that's really gets rid of technical debt. Now people can actually

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go and spend their time automating stuff because we had no time for our ops people to automate

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a freaking thing because all they're doing is, you know, upgrading databases and patching

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servers and all the stuff that is not fun for almost anybody. So it's nice that if you

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can, you're not looking to just lay people off. Instead, take these people who are probably

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talented sysadmins and get them to automate your whole pipeline because now they have cycles.

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Yeah. I mean, to use like one wacky analogy, like, like, and it gets a little flawed because

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the robots is always, you remember that we were at some conference we had and we had the robot

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guy come and talk and he was just like, good luck not having a job. I remember that it was

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Cloud Foundry Summit. Yeah. At Santa Clara, I was, I was terrified about robots. But, but like,

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it's almost like, and again, it's fraught because cars are always the issue, but it seems like if

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you're a combustion engine car person and you're like, this Tesla people is going to take over and it's

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going to be terrible. You're like, no, no. Like what happens is like, and then that, those cars

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have to take over all the current market for cars. So like, we need to redo that. It's almost like

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if you were in the dirt road business and you're like these asphalt road business people, they're

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going to displace me. It's like, no, they need to replace every single dirt road with an asphalt

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one. And then like that analogy breaks down because there's a bunch of efficiencies in, in cloud.

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But there is, I mean, to your point, I mean, making it very pivotal centric, as I always like to joke,

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like if you look at the, if you look at the trajectory of customers that we have, and then

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the work that will be required to basically move all of their, their own software to running on our

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platform and to modernize it, it's sort of like, if anything, we at Pivotal are going to need a lot

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of people. So you should call us up. We need really, we need experienced ops people who know how to do all

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of that stuff. And I think, you know, not conversely, but additionally, all those companies

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who want to move their stuff over, like they're going to need operations people who help out with

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all of that. So it is, it is like the classic thing of like, well, you're going to have to do some new

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things, but the value is going to be there. I mean, we just, yeah, the domain knowledge I think is the

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same. It's like, there's still networking, there's still compute, there's still storage, there's still

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this, like how all that stuff fits together is different. There's just different stuff you have to type.

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And you may be coalescing around an actual business function versus like, hey, I just run ops.

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Like, hey, maybe now I run my service. And now I run a service that, you know, just looked at a

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case study last night where one of our customers is, could have changed a 5 million line monolith

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that's responsible for a billion dollars a year of revenue to the company. And they're going to

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replatform all that to PCF. And everybody on the team is super excited because they built this

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cross-functional team and they're going to build something that matters. Like this is happening.

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I think that's what's exciting is they're not trying to figure out how to build a new platform. And that's

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what comes up in these conferences too is, hey, we just got Kubernetes on Photon. Like that's cool.

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At some point, it's still about, am I building platforms or am I getting to work adding value?

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And I think for a lot of teams, it's, look, I just want to build apps that add value or

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replatform them. I don't want to build the platform because there's still hopefully 1% of companies in

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the world that need to build a platform. The rest of them should be able to buy something and then

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add cool stuff on top.

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So usually we have a little bit of news, but we've been so dedicated to our work here at the

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conference, making slides in hotel rooms, eating eggs, all of that stuff. But we do have, we did

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have one thing and I bet you're, you're in, in your role as, as, as not being a, whatever it is I am

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in bon, bon, vivant or something. Is that a word or phrase? I guess it would be technically. So we,

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we announced that we were available on Google cloud now. So what are the, what are the,

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what are the details of that? Yeah, we did a couple of things.

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And by we, I mean, pivotal cloud foundry, you and me had a, we've been heads down getting

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PCF on. We're actually standing on top of the Google cloud.

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No, I mean, it's, it's a huge story. And this is a terribly kept secret because we've talked

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about them, you know, SpringOne platform. They were on stage with us saying this stuff

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is coming. And so we've talked about this. This isn't like a ta-da moment, but this was

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a, you know, big story. Got a good writeup in fortune, Google blog, our blog. And basically

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what it's about is pivotal cloud foundry, now turnkey installation and management on GCP.

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So Google cloud platform has a really, really clear value prop. I mean, they're, if they

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were a telco, they'd be the third largest in the world. Their network's amazing. Their

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services are really interesting and they've integrated a bunch of those into PCF. So if

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you want to call their machine learning API, which we were demonstrating on stage today at

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a conference, you know, if you want to consume their big query, which does crazy performance

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for storage, you know, they have a number of, I think we did half a dozen services that

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integrate in. So, you know, if you're looking for a really innovative, high performing cloud

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platform, GCP is pretty awesome. You know, Home Depot is the one that has worked with us

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and has this up and running. You know, it's a great choice. And you have other reasons to

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choose Azure, AWS, OpenStack, whatever. But GCP is doing cool stuff. Heck, PCF, Pivotal

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themselves. We announced that we're going to be moving a lot of our Pivotal Web services

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onto GCP. Yeah.

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It's a performance and cost and what have you.

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Yeah. I think you must have been the one telling me, but there's essentially like when

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we were running the tests, running, it was some crazy order of magnitude of cost savings

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because, because it's, I guess one of the features that GCP, that Google Cloud has is

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they're really good at figuring out you don't need all this space. Like someone was telling

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me that like when you, when you run your processing on their cloud at the end of the month, they

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figure out like, oh, they'll, they downgrade you.

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You only consumed X.

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Right, right. And so like if you, if you overbuy, they actually return money to you or something

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like that, which, which what a kooky idea.

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We're going to spend half of what we spend on AWS.

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Yeah.

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And we're talking millions of dollars. So, and that is because of things like that. There's

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things like they've, you know, if you use a machine for so long, they'll immediately

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give you the kind of long use credit versus Amazon reserved instances and kind of lock

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you in for three years and you hope you guessed right on what you needed to use.

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Yeah.

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So just a lot of really innovative things, per minute billing. So even as you're standing

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up environments and maybe short lived test environments, whatever, we're getting some

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good stuff there. So just, it's a cool platform. We're happy to partner with them. We love all

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of our cloud IaaS partners. I think for us, you know, again, if you can implement 15 APIs,

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we can run on top of your IaaS.

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Right, right, right.

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And so I would just prefer that customers make this now a business decision versus purely

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a technical one. You could say, you know what, what's the best thing for our business to

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run geography-wise, partnership-wise, and let's pick that cloud versus necessarily, well,

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who has the best, you know, blockstores.

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And then we've like, I know we run on these, but we have this similar GA situation with Azure

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and AWS, right?

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Absolutely.

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I mean, it's fully, of course, on AWS. And so, you know, another thing that I think about

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maybe a year or sometime a year and a half ago, like we sort of, we in the marketing,

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speaking to people organization, we're sorting out what multi-cloud means and the value proposition

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of that. And I think at the time it was more about, not to demean this, but it was about

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half of what it means now, which is you can run it anywhere, right? Like multi-cloud where

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cloud is like a server. And you were just, you bumped up against something that I think

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is an intriguing addition to that, which is multi-cloud as in the middleware of the services

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that you can use, right? So like you were saying, you could use what's Amazon's Redshift,

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I forget, or it's Cogito or Cortisone or something that Azure has. Like they have one that starts

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with a C and then Google has their own, like, where Google, they should just call everything

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it's Google.

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Right.

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But each of them has their own sort of like data processing thing and variations on that

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in other services. And I think that's another intriguing angle is, you know, it gets a little

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more tricky if you're using a cloud proprietary service, but at least it sort of like allows

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you to use that, right? And it also means that you have the flexibility to use lots of them.

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Like you could, you're not locked into one of those bundles of services. You could potentially

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be using the same programming model. This is kind of like the Java and the .NET dream,

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like the same programming model on different, the analogies break down, but on different clouds

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that therefore give you different types of middleware.

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No, but then even, I mean, I can use the GCP service broker while running this on vSphere

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on premises. Like nothing means I have to be running a GCP.

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Right, right, that's true.

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If I'm doing a crazy data intensive latency service, I would be dumb to do that. But calling

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a machine learning API that maybe it's okay if it has a hundred milliseconds of latency

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to reach out to Google, maybe that's cool because that's an awesome service. So even then

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I could be running the best services in every place, but using the same platform. I think

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that gets to a really cool multi-cloud vision. Plus this week we announced and we shipped

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Spring Cloud Services Eureka that does cross-site service registry integration. So what that

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means is service registry sitting on-prem, service registry sitting in Azure, Google Compute.

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Those two will talk to each other so that wherever I am, my services can say, where's my service

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that does X? And it will give me a copy of it.

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Like that's really cool. That's multi-cloud software.

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Yeah, we're going to need to get a SOA Rosetta Stone at some point so that when we go talk

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with people, we can be like, this is like this, right? Because I mean, it's, you know,

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it's very similar. The, let's call it the 10 minute explanation of each thing is basically

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the same shape, right? Where you've got certain, you've got these things that I'm gesticulating

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in the air here. You've got these two things that are talking with each other. So there's

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a thing, a thing, a pipe. And in order to do that, they need a registry to look

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up each other and to do this. And then you've got to moderate that. I mean, it's all sort

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of distributed computing. And I can see that over the next, I mean, I'm sure it happens

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now, but over the next year or so, like having that Rosetta Stone will be...

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It's going to be huge. I don't know if you still get a real phone book anymore. Do you

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get one at home?

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You know, I think someone sends one to me and I just put it straight in the recycling bin.

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Yeah, you just have a sign on recycled input phone books here.

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Yeah, that's right.

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But I mean, that's, I mean, that's what a service registry is, is phone books.

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I mean, the idea almost would be, I almost wish if for some reason I

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wanted to call a florist in Seattle while I'm here in Austin, is if everyone got a copy

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of the same phone book. Now, logistically, that makes no sense. But the idea is like,

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you know, with a service registry like this is I want to know where my services are. I

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don't care where my application is sitting. And that sort of model, as we do more of these

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cross cloud integration services, again, for me, that's exciting multi-cloud, not fake hybrid

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cloud single pane of glass stuff.

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Yeah.

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I think this is about focusing again on the apps and making sure that they run awesome wherever

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they are.

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Yeah, yeah. All right. So, so last topic before we wrap up.

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Yeah.

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Like, so I have, I have been like waiting as I gallivant around for someone to ask me

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like what the big grand vision of like Dell and EMC and Pivotal is. And no one's actually

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asked me, which is exciting. So, so now I will, I'm asking myself and you and like, I have

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to admit, I haven't watched all of the keynotes and stuff in detail like I usually do, like

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a responsible little boy. But yeah, you know, I, I, I was debriefed in a kind of ironic turn,

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I guess, by some analyst friends of mine who are talking about it. And I think to, they

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of course put it in their cynical analyst way because that's what you do, but to like make

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it in a more, uh, less cynical way. Like it seems like, uh, essentially, I mean, we're

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basically part of one of the biggest behemoths in the tech world now. And I think, I think

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the, the, the play there is like, as, as you know, a lot of these things we're talking

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about causes consolidation of things that were previously, uh, not as efficient as they

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are now. And, and so as this consolidation happens, like, and I think this is true of

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markets that like the bigger a vendor is, the more successful they generally are at getting

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market share and therefore thriving and surviving in that environment. And I think, I mean, tell

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me if, if, if this seems wrong, but I think the, the, the position of pivotal and all that

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is the same position we pretty much always had, which is, well, you've got to come up with

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new things, right? Like you need to come up with the products of, of tomorrow and the

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next day and next week. And I think, I think if you look at, even though Bumi is an older

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thing, Bumi and us are a similar asset in this, um, Dell technologies of like, these are the

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newer ways of doing things that will be the, as they would say, the growth business. And

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so, I mean, I think to, I mean, I don't know, everything seems to fit together in that way.

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Now that's a whole sort of inward looking company thing. Sure. Like looking at it from a product

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perspective, I think it is like, if you have an IT department, you have an IT department

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that runs all this stuff and you're going to have that and keep running it. And we'll update

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that, you know, there's networking and various storage things. And then also when you're

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interested in building out new IT or modernizing the IT you have, you might be interested in

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what pivotal does for all the reasons we just talked about. And I don't know, that's what

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I've sussed out.

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That's your Dell take. That's right. Yeah. I mean, whatever strategically aligned business

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really is, I guess I refer to my kids as that too now. It's kind of cool, but I'll have to start

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thinking about how to portfolio manage my family and be like, nope, you're cut. No, my, you know,

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my dog is maybe strategically aligned, but your IRR is not panning out.

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Dell's a great investor. So is GE. So is Microsoft. So is Ford. Right. And so we're part of a really

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cool family here at Dell. We're also extremely independent in what we do. You know, there to

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the point, maybe you were touching on for a second there, the sort of consolidation thing. There's

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no looking at, well, Pivotal's got HR and so does Dell. Let's just have one HR. Like we're an

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independent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got that email a little while ago. Yeah. I mean, our email

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addresses didn't change. Everything functions. We're an independent company that does our own thing.

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But again, the Dell synergy is awesome. We have all these Dell people who from the first day at the

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booth. Apparently most of it was Dell people coming up going, it's a story with you guys because we were

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supposed to be selling you now, which is awesome that we're going into major accounts with Dell reps

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and Dell teams and telling this really cool story together about Dell infrastructure, a platform that

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sits on top, integrated things like Boomi and Virtustream and whatever, that there's a cool story to tell.

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It's, it's not necessary to be all smashed together. If people want to buy independent components,

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there's no sort of converged requirement that all this thing is one stack, but we do have a nice

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integrated story, but also a really nice independent one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think having,

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having been here almost two years, it's, uh, and, and having worked in, in, in the federation of EMC,

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like it's pretty much a similar setup of just like collaborating about, about, uh, like you're saying

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basically as they would say, cross selling with each other, right. Which makes total sense. Right. And,

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or to put it, to put it in a, a extremely, uh, whatever centric way, helping our, our mutual customers be

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successful. Well, there's tons of overlap. Yeah. Yeah. Given the, the pivotal target customer base

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of who we have already and who we continue to aspire to, to work with that, I think it's a hundred

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percent overlap. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think there's just a wider, a wider, uh, uh, what would

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you call it? A wider pipe to talk with the world through and vice versa. Right. So there should be

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like next week I, I, I have a, um, uh, Dell has like a, an EBC meeting up in Round Rock with just

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one of their customers and, and I'm going in to talk with him. And so it's a good like early example

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of like, well, there's more conversations to have and more things to do. Right. I mean, just like I

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was saying, if, if you sort of project out the, the next year or so for, uh, for pivotal things,

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if you kind of look at the customers we have and them actually going into production, like this would be

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like exciting or, or, you know, I mean, it'll work, I guess, but it'll be exciting to see like what they

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actually do. And it'll drive a, a lot of need to have people actually working on stuff. Yeah. And

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Dell's a customer themselves. We don't really have any outside venture funding at pivotal. We have

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customers who believe in us and invest in what we do. And Dell is one of those as well. And they're

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putting PCF in place. So it'll be fun for us to continue to be our own case study as it is a bigger

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company and see how that helps our customers. All right. Well, we'll be back, uh, next week,

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right? Yeah. Okay. For with that, with our regular format. I don't know if we have a guest lined up or

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not because I'm delinquent in scheduling something. I'll have to, maybe I'll rustle someone up or not,

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but as always, this has been Pivotal Conversations where you can find us at, uh, let's see, what is

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00:25:47,820 --> 00:25:52,460
it? Pivotal.io slash podcast. Right. If you really are feeling sprightly, I think you can go to

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a pivotal.io slash pivotal hyphen conversations, but you know, do whatever you like. And of course,

355
00:25:57,740 --> 00:26:01,880
leaving reviews on iTunes. If you do leave a review in the next week, Coté will actually send you an

356
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,780
autographed copy of his ebook. Sure. It's physically impossible. That sounds great. I, you have to

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tell me what your address is. Uh, although actually, I guess I could, I could, I could actually make a

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digital copy that could be printed out. Right. You would need a physical copy. And I might have to

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start adding that little thing to my email. That's like, please consider trees. Do you still get

360
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those? I do. I purposely print 10 copies of those. Yeah. Yeah. That, that would be hilarious. So you can

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also go to our not so secret backend at SoundCloud where we actually post these things about a week

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ahead of time. It's at, uh, soundcloud.com slash Pivotal Conversations. And, uh, yeah, it'd be great

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if you leave us a rating or a review or just write to us or say hello to us when we're around and we'll

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see everyone next time. Bye-bye.