So I've been reading a bunch of the headlines over the news, and I hear this Pokemon Go is a big thing. Now, I, of course, having a six-year-old, have seen some Pokemon cartoons. He's more of a Digimon kid. And if you were to ask me the differences between the two, I'm sure I could make a mockery of existence. But do you know what this Pokemon Go thing is? What's the story? Oh, my gosh. I mean, I'll admit I played it over the weekend with my son because it was fun. I mean, it seems like it's the first interesting marrying of, you know, AR, not full VR, you know, virtual reality stuff, augmented reality stuff. Oh, not analyst relations? Yeah, right. But actually, you know, I saw some video this morning of, you know, Central Park in New York was packed. And it was just people with their heads down on their phone all looking for Pokemon because you catch them in the real world. Amazing stuff. I mean, Nintendo's stock price is up 25%, I think, today. It's something that's nuts that this is just kind of captured the interest of adults somehow as well as children. So, you know, it was also funny reading on Twitter some people who were accidentally getting sore from exercising so much because they were walking around their neighborhoods. Now, let's slow down here. I heard augmented reality, Nintendo, soreness, Central Park share prices going up. Right. But what is Pokemon Go? Like, what? It's a game. That's all I know. Yep. It's a game for, I think it's iOS and Android, where you, it mixes up your GPS on your phone as well as, you know, I think it uses data as well. You're walking around and it lets you know where there's Pokemon in your neighborhood. And when you hold up your phone, it actually overlays the little monster on top of a bush or on top of it in the street or something like that. And you have to throw a little ball and catch it. Oh, that's amazing. It's pretty cool stuff. Yeah. I mean, my son and I wandered around our neighborhood for 45 minutes the other day catching little guys. And he thought it was a blast. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole premise of Pokemon is that there are kids and they're assigned like this character.
2:04And they use these characters as proxies for, as another podcast would say, neighborhood stick fights, where they fight the Pokemon with each other to see who a winner is. So, basically, this Pokemon Go, in so much as you're holding a phone in front of your face, is kind of like simulating that idea, except for individuals. So, you could, I'm assuming, in addition to just throwing a ball, and if they don't do this now, you would logically do it, is you could actually meet up with someone and have your Pokemon fight with each other. Like, just like the actual show and everything. Yeah, exactly. You know, and then we won't think about the fact that you're smushing little monsters into balls and probably injuring them, that in real life is more Pokemon. And then, maybe if you cross that with that Google Cardboard business, you're just, next thing you know, we're just providing energy for the big grid somewhere. Yeah, but what's been interesting from a, if we somehow swing this back to enterprise business, is that some companies have actually been able to make themselves hotspots so that people would come into their shop because there'd be Pokemon in there. So, there's a way to actually intercept kind of the real world with this. There's also stories of people getting robbed and getting coerced to different areas. Really? Let's ignore that. But the idea of, you know, you could now have a way to monetize this sort of model being a business by being a destination for these things. So, it's going to be an interesting world where you actually force people to leave their house now, even though they keep their phone in their face. Well, that is amazing. You know, that hooks up really well with this whole Snapchat business. Another thing I understand the kids like, where basically, as I understand it, you can take a picture or a video of yourself and overlay a mustache on your face and send that to your friend. And then, that's business. Right. That's easier than me growing a real mustache. Yeah. No, that actually, like being less flippant about it and jokey. Yeah, that actually does sound cool. I saw a screenshot of it. And, you know, as I found out, like yourself, I'm one of the five people left in the world who still reads RSS feeds.
4:05So, I saw all these headlines about Pokemon Go. And then, I saw this one screenshot that was like an augmented reality thing. And I got to thinking, oh, I see what they did there. That sounds really cool. So, that is interesting. Huh. Yeah. But much like most trends in our own Pivotal's Justin Smith just tweeted out a few minutes ago that he was complaining about the permissions. Because it more or less asked for God permissions on your phone. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we just accept that to play with Pocket Monsters for free. Yeah. I would say compared to the world of RBAC and auditors and, you know, repaving, the granularity of permissions on iOS devices is consumer grade. Mm-hmm. Right. But, you know, it is a lot better than the old desktop experiences. Anyways, that would be a whole other tangent. Indeed. Well, you know, this week, after we go over some brief news items, I thought we could preview a little bit of our upcoming conference, SpringOne Platform. I think that's August 1st to 4th, if I recall. Yes. At the Aria. A place I have never been. But it should be great. No. No, Vegas in August. I mean, you're going to be a shrunken head by the time you go home. It's going to be hot. As I like to tell people, the airport to hotel experience in Las Vegas is perhaps the best you will ever have, except if you were in Brussels and there was a conference you were going to at the Sheraton across the street. But other than that, I think it's the best transfer. Don't. And if the cab driver asks you to take the highway, say no. Don't go on the highway. Of course, if you're expensing it, what do you care? But maybe you should care on behalf of your company. Anyhow, so in addition to Pokemon Go, I blogged about this a little bit. There was a good chart, I think, reported over Barron's about a Morgan Stanley report saying that the prediction was, and given that I blogged this, I should know it better and maybe look at it. But essentially, over the next five years or so, that based on a survey they did of 100 people or something, that Azure would eclipse that is overrun AWS for cloud usage.
6:12And if I remember the methodology, so to speak, it was asking about the surveyed people's intentions and what they want to do. The old, what do you do now versus what are you planning on doing? Which I think is always an interesting question. And, you know, as I wrote up, I don't know. I mean, it's not completely bad at all. But predicting things like this with that kind of methodology is always difficult. But I think it's a good, is directional the right word? I mean, I think it's interesting and notable, obviously. And it does, I mean, tell me what you think about this. I think you're a lot closer to the Microsoft world as a whole than I am. But it does seem like when you go talk with organizations, they, on paper, if not also in practice, they really like the idea of Azure. And there's a lot of, as we were talking last episode with Kevin Hoffman, there's a lot of .NET out there. And the idea that you could just seamlessly transition it, which ends up being sort of like a unicorn of its own, maybe more like a, you know, a dwarf or a hobbit or some other mythical creature. It ends up being a very difficult thing in cloud. So if that thing is made easier because it's all in the Microsoft stack, there is a lot of appeal to it. And then, you know, technically and all the other stuff, as always, being the meatware guy, like technologically, it's all maybe not equivalent, but it all checks out no matter which public cloud to use. Things seem to be okay. But what's your feel on that? Yeah, I mean, Microsoft's got, of any cloud that's probably got service to service, kind of if you're checking boxes saying, well, can you do this? Can you do Hadoop? Can you do messaging? Can you do IaaS, PaaS, whatever? Okay, you're going to find a lot of similarities there. Microsoft's doing a lot of the right things there. Their hybrid story is probably the best in public cloud in terms of respecting whatever you're doing on premises and trying to give you the same tool set. Whether you like hybrid clouds or not, the reality is that people are trying to smash together their different clouds. Microsoft does a nice job with that. What is interesting about that survey was, and I think you pointed out and some others did, I mean, first it was a CIO survey.
8:19And we could have an entire podcast on whether we believe CIOs are making actual technology decisions or whether they're paying for them. I think they're paying for them. The decisions are being made ahead of time by devs and other people who are using these products. So you're interviewing them, and one of those telling stats was I think it was something like 53% of them said they weren't using public cloud, which is insanity, right? There's a 0% chance that that's accurate. Yeah, to break in there a little bit, my old buddy and one of my old bosses at RedMonk, Stephen O'Grady, he tactically latched onto that to be like, this is all bogus, which I think is a fair sort of cautionary analysis. Right. I think it doesn't mean the whole thing is garbage. I think it just means that it's telling, again, that CIOs typically don't know what's happening everywhere because a lot of these are big companies. And you have IT spend, quote unquote, happening in other units. Marketing or manufacturing can go hire devs and swipe a credit card and use Salesforce. They don't need central IT's permission anymore. So can they have a full pulse on everything? Probably not. Devs are the one probably choosing what cloud a company is going to use long term, and then a CIO pays for it whenever it actually emerges to their visibility where they see that they're using it. So, interesting stuff. You know, Amazon's got a great head start. Don't discount Google, who's also doing some pretty awesome, amazing stuff in this space. You know, it's great to see tons of investment here. Yeah, I pity, to some extent, that poor CIO who has to make the choice. I think, to some extent, that's where Pivotal likes to come in and say, gosh, the IaaS is irrelevant. What matters is the platform on top, and we'll just run on any of them. As you saw, even with GE and Predix announcing today that they're going to run on Azure, which runs on PCF. So, you know, the cloud doesn't matter as much if you decide to move up to a platform abstraction. Yeah, definitely, and that's, you know, we referenced this last time, but then there's a, we have a Pivotal blog post that has been basically a pointer toast.
10:19Toast? A pointer post. I had to serve my son toast this morning because he's sick, and, you know, we don't usually give him toast, so it was odd seeing him eating toast. I'm not a big toast family. Put butter on it, and, you know, butter and honey on toast is delicious. But speaking of being delicious, yeah, you know, that write-up that you asked me to do for InfoQ on multi-cloud stuff, it kind of hits on and starts on a little bit of those notions that, you know, you shouldn't really worry about the infrastructure so much as a core enabler of things. I mean, in the same way that, like, I don't know, it's probably not that big of a deal what kind of tires you use on your car, but they sure are necessary for most people. Unless you're, like, racing and you're flash trading and stuff like that. But anyhow, you know, I guess ironically to that point, we, here at Pivotal, we announced a partnership with Canonical around Ubuntu support, which I think the way you, using the tire metaphor again, the way you get out of that ironic mud pit with a piece of board is, it's basically, as James Watters was tweeting this, but when, you know, when he and other people go out and you kind of explain the Pivotal Cloud Foundry and Cloud Foundry concept, to some extent, in, well, at least from the perspective of definitely a CIO, it makes operating systems not really matter anymore. And it can also, I mean, depending on, at least in this instance, it can remove a tremendous amount of money you have to spend on it, instead of being beholden to the funky licensing scheme that people are used to in that space. Which, which I think is nice. Like, and also, you know, we were talking about security earlier, when you embed something as we do, when you embed an operating system like Ubuntu in the platform, as long as you trust us, which you totally should, we know what we're doing. It makes your security issues a lot easier to deal with, if people can't muck with, with the operating system and you're all using the same one and it gets patched. And it's, it's one of those, I think it's that, that topic, I'm by no means a security expert.
12:19We have other people for that, which I would refer you to, but, but that illustrates an interesting point in a lot of cloud native conversations I get with where some of the, you could call them objections or what about types of things. But, you know, one of the questions you would get is like, well, what about updating operating systems and what about this? And it's an interesting position of cloud platforms where it's basically like, yeah, you don't do that, right? Like, like, like, you no longer worry about the operating system or doing things. And it often takes some people like a shift away of, of thinking about that. Like, you know, it's, it's to use a car metaphor again. There's, there's always like, yeah, you don't really need to worry about opening the hood. This thing kind of takes care of itself. And every now and then you need to open the hood, but it's not really how you should be thinking about operating this. Instead, you should focus on our awesome iOS configuration that just works instead of having to futz with it all the time. Yeah. I think the key is you got to go, you have to know where you're getting, what you're getting into there. That if you decide that, look, we're doing immutable infrastructure, the OS doesn't matter, but then you don't patch often or you don't refresh your images often. And now you're, you're stuck because now you've got all these stale things that everyone keeps deploying. So there's got to be some sort of mix that if you decide the OS doesn't matter, then you need to give it over to a platform that still takes care of it because the OS still matters to somebody. Maybe it just matters less to you versus saying, eh, the OS, it's transient. We just build a bunch of stuff and we tear it down quick. Well, if you don't do the tear it down quick, you don't repave it or you don't, then you really get yourself in trouble. So I think it's, it's key that if you want to go hands off with the OS, you make sure that something else is taking that responsibility on. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like, uh, it's, it's like, you know, in, in old visions of, uh, of, of the future and science fiction visions, people would just come like mechanics would come to your domicile and just update things for you. Just take care of them. You don't have to worry about it, man. That would, that would be nice. Wouldn't it be nice if auto mechanics just came to your house, just fix stuff for you? I used to have a mechanic like that, but then he retired. I, I, I, my gardener is that person for me.
14:19Instead of me slicing off my own hand, he, he trims the bushes. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a green thumb so that you can keep your thumbs. That's a free one for him. Well, speaking of, uh, of, of recontextualizing the way you think about your IT stack, we've got our, our big conference SpringOne platform coming up, uh, August. First to fourth, as I mentioned. And I, and I, we were both thinking that for this episode, uh, what we should do is just kind of go over a little bit of preview or like our, our picks of what's going on there. And, uh, you know, I, I went, I picked over the, uh, the session list and, uh, picked out some things that I thought was interesting. But, but why don't you tell me, what, what are you looking forward to other than discovering, uh, what was it other than getting your head shrunk and being able to fit in that old hat? Well, I mean, just Vegas and August, good Lord. But, you know, it's funny as we talked to organizers, it's tricky to find places to hold conferences of this size as we're expecting, you know, 1500, 2000 plus people coming that, you know, it's easy to find the thousand person, 500 person conference room relatively. But once you start getting into that multi-thousand, there's only a few places you can do that in the United States. So Vegas, there always seems to be room because it's conference central, but from a conference perspective, I don't know if I've looked forward to a conference this much in a very long time. I say that because I just look at that session list and the team put together such an interesting set of things that it doesn't matter if you're not a spring person because there's some awesome data story stuff and there's some great CICD stuff. Or if you are a spring person, my gosh, the depth on some of these is awesome. So I just, I love the mix of really deep technical stuff, some squishy, businessy, important, but not, you know, I'm not going to rewrite in code sort of sessions, some great looking keynotes. So sure, I picked five things that I was really looking forward to. We can either duel them back and forth or I can list my five for you right now. Yeah, yeah. What are the five? Let's go over them. Yeah. So the first one, again, there's, you know, the caveat is there's like a hundred sessions.
16:19So I can down select to five. I'm going to attend as many as physically possible. These were just a few that stood out. There's one that's going to be, it's called 12 factor cloud native apps. What exactly does that mean for spring developers by a fellow from the Home Depot? And I like case studies. I like when people start talking about what they're trying to do because we all can get stuck in our echo chambers and just look at the unicorn scenarios and makeup scenarios. I love when somebody says, this is what I tried and this is what happened. In this session, if you look at the abstract, it's much about how do I take these 12 factor apps? How do they work in spring? And then how do you think about those in the form of a platform? You know, I just like hearing how people try to apply what sometimes can feel like abstract principles in their real life. So that's the first one. Yeah. And that's, that's one that I picked as well for, for the reasons that, uh, that you went over. And I think, I think if, if I think back over the last year or so, there's, there's two case study videos. I mean, there's, there's a lot of them that are great, but two case study videos that I've actually watched several times. And, and one of them is, uh, I guess this was last fall when one of the people from Home Depot went over like their learnings and going cloud native and, uh, you know, and putting together a lot of the content and presentations and stuff that I do. That one's, that one's a gold mine. It's pretty good. And so I've ended up watching that a lot. And then there's another one that I'll have to put a link to both of these in the show notes. But, uh, one of the, the, the, the Pivotal office managers, uh, Lauren in DC, she did one with someone from the IRS going over how the IRS basically applied lean startup principles and, you know, the Pivotal way and all, all the hoopla we talk about to, uh, to do some IRS software. And those are two excellent, like, uh, case studies that I've watched many times to extract things from. Um, but yeah, any, any time like Home Depot comes and talks about something in a, uh, Cloud Foundry, uh, related world, it's, it's, it's rich in, in, uh, what people are actually doing case study itis, which is nice. Right. And from what I can tell, we're, we're not bringing on people who just tell Pivotal that we're awesome.
18:22Instead, it's some people are just talking about the tech. Some people aren't Pivotal customers. I mean, we've got other people just coming who want to talk about cloud native development or spring or microservices, DevOps, whatever. And so, again, I like that. Yes. Pivotal is a sponsor of the conference. You look at the sponsor list though, who else brings Google and Microsoft together? Come on, Pivotal can do it. So, you know, we all, uh, I think they see that value in that. So yeah, that was the first one that jumped out to me. The, uh, second one I flagged was architecting for cloud native data, data microservices done right using spring cloud by our own Fred, who I saw him deliver at the cloud native roadshow when it visited Seattle and their world tour. And he kind of blew my mind as he went through data microservices and spring cloud stream and spring cloud data flow and thinking about data pipelines as a series of microservices versus some sort of monolithic thing that you, you know, iterate on. And your traditional ETL tool or even your traditional enterprise service bus instead thinking about composing it into a set of steps using some sort of abstracted messaging backend, whether that's rapid or coffee or whatever. And so I know for a fact that he's working on a pretty face melting demo for SpringOne that covers a little bit more of this and in some interesting ways. So I'm really amped for that session because this is something I'm trying to get a little smarter on. And, and, and, and he's a fantastic demo or of these technologies. Yeah. I, I, I, I, uh, I, well, I was sitting in the room when he gave that talk at the cloud native thing in Austin. And, and as, as I do with so many times when I have a computer in front of me, I wasn't actually paying attention. So, so I'm, I'm looking forward to paying attention this time, but it did, it did seem like, like I, I, I wrote this one up on my, my list as well. Like it does seem like an interesting one because, uh, yeah, data is always a problem and we don't really, we as a, we as a community around all this stuff, don't really talk about it that much. And, uh, he, he went over some pretty practical nuts and bolts kind of stuff, which is fun.
20:22Yeah. I'm surprised there's a lot of good data sessions there. There's stuff on, you know, rest and data services. And there's going to be, it seems like, again, if you're thinking about, you know, how do I not get left behind if I'm a data geek in this new kind of microservices world? I think if anything, you know, those might be the people who are the most critical as you think about unlocking systems and treating data differently, processing streaming data. You know, nobody seems to be talking about Hadoop nearly as much anymore as the 47 different Apache streaming projects that are now available for doing data stream processing. And that is where all the attention is. And if you understand data and machine learning and these things, well, you are primed to add a ton of value to your company or probably your career even more so. All right. Well, so what's number three? Number three was, and I hit a couple of CI, CD things, but this was continuous delivery for microservice architecture with Concourse and Cloud Foundry. This was by Alex from Pivotal, who was going to do some demonstrations of continuous delivery pipelines using Spring Apps and Concourse and Spring Cloud. And again, for me, I'm just starting to really get that religion that that CI and CD are your gateway for redeveloping or redesigning how you deliver software. It's not containers. It's not even microservices or it's thinking about your whole pipeline and how do I get stuff into the hands of my end users, customers, internal audience, whatever, quickly. And I can do it where I can iterate quickly and I take people out of the equation so it doesn't get all clogged up right when I'm just about to go and it has to sit in queue for three days while someone walks through some manual checks. It's just that's what starts to transform how you deliver software is when you think about getting it out more quickly. And it's not just speed, it's getting it out more consistently. You know, anybody can be fast. I can be dumb and fast. I think the key is, am I doing this reliably, repeatably, consistently? And then things like DevOps and microservice, those things are going to form around that. So I'm really excited to learn more about Concourse. I've only played with it and I want to see people who actually know what they're doing demo that to me.
22:23Yeah, you know, to that point, there's actually a lot of talks that involve, if not Concourse on its own, just CI and CD. And there's, I don't know if this steals into your number four, number five, but there's a talk from Matt Curry and one of his coworkers at Allstate going over how they've used it. And I have a little Q&A that I did with them kind of previewing it. And then there's also one from Brian Gregory at Express Scripts kind of going over how they've been doing it. And there's several other ones. So it is, yeah, you know, I think what's interesting to think about over the next year or so is how, what you see from the Cloud Foundry and the cloud native ecosystem, and then even expanding out into the, I don't know, container orchestration world. Like how continuous integration and continuous delivery platforms get integrated or not into that. I think will be, it'll be interesting to see which one turns out to be valuable. Like if they're equally valuable or if one of them is the equivalent of the tires on the car or if they're both, if they're both the, the important thing, many it's tires on the car all the way down. It just depends which, which layer you're at. Yeah, again, for me, it's just, I think we can get distracted by other technologies that are almost upstream and things like CI, CD, think about the whole process. So to my fourth one, which you started to steal my thunder was the Express Scripts one, building out CI, CD pipeline. And I like that abstract because Brian was specifically talking about how it involves the whole company. And I think that, that sort of awareness is key that I can't introduce CI, maybe CI, but definitely not CD at a company when I haven't gotten everyone to buy off on that model. Like that is super disruptive to, you know, again, lines of business who that's, you know, their customer who's using that application or they themselves, you know, finance, project management. There's all sorts of groups that are impacted when you decide to say, I am going to fundamentally change how we deliver software.
24:24Like that is not something you can decide as a dev team. So maybe I'm reading into his abstract a bit, but I liked where he was talking about that alignment with IT and other parts of the business groups and infrastructure. And I want to hear those kind of case studies because it's really easy to say, oh, you know, just set up a CD pipeline. Okay, I can point and click my, you know, CI, CD process. That is different than implementing it for a major company that, you know, in this case, such as healthcare data, like that's not screwing around. Yeah, and as I'm fond in doing in my little cheesy talks, like there's two surveys about actual CI and CD usage out there. One of them is from a multi-year thing from D-Zone. I don't know, you're an InfoQ guy, so I'm sorry to raise up D-Zone. I don't know if that like makes smoke come out of your head. I read them too. They can be second to InfoQ. There's always got to be a number two, right? Otherwise, how can you define what number one is? Anyways, they have a good at least two-year study showing like people claiming to do CI and CD. And then if they take sort of like a orthodox approach to it, like many fewer people are. And there's the most recent Gartner like Agile thing shows there's a, I don't know, maybe surprising lack of actually doing continuous integration and delivery out there. Which is all not to say that like this is all a bunch of, as you said earlier, garbage. But there's a whole lot of room for improvement and therefore a lot of awesomeness in the future when it comes to putting these practices into place. We've got a lot of improvement on the table to suck up and start doing, which will be enjoyable. Yeah, exactly. I think that's what makes it exciting. If we had all hit kind of peak CI and CD and 90% of companies are doing it, man, what are we going to talk about? Like little tweaks around the edges? We're still in a space where we know we can fundamentally help 80-something percent of Fortune 500 companies who aren't doing it today. That's awesome. I think that's a great aspiration, not only for us as Pivotal, but more importantly for these companies to say, look, we're not way behind.
26:29Everybody's trying to figure this stuff out. Let's try to learn from people and then cater that to our own environment because there is not a single blueprint for this stuff. The best you can do is take some tips and then tailor that to whatever your setup is. Right. Well, what's left on the list? So the fifth one I listed out was, again, kind of a case study, and this touches on some things I think you've been talking about lately. But this one's modernizing the legacy, how DISH is adapting its SOA services for a cloud-first future. And it's looking at the challenges, difficulties, converting legacy services to a cloud-native one and what kind of things you have to think about. And again, that's going to be the dominant conversation. We talked about it with Kevin last week when we talked about 12-factor apps and microservices and converting. And, you know, very few companies are just starting every year going, all right, what hundred new apps are we going to build? Like, that is not typically reality. It's, all right, which ones do we have to update? Which ones are going to migrate? Maybe we'll do a handful of new things. So what does it mean to try to get some of these apps in a state where they can get a lot of benefit from a cloud-native platform? And it's not just lift and shift, it's sometimes thinking about how do I make some updates and make sure that this is going to be optimized there. So I love hearing those sort of case studies because that is, again, extremely real life for most companies who probably get frustrated hearing nothing but this constant drumbeat of all this cool, crazy new development that they feel they can't do because they're stuck with this portfolio of things that don't feel cloud-native. That's right. Yeah. As I often like to joke, it's not just the two circles turning into an owl, but it's more of a Bob Ross approach where you can actually see how it's done, which is fantastic. Well, that's a good list of sessions there with, as we talked about, a fair amount of crossover to one that I have. Now, I'm not going to go through, as is typical of me, concision is not a word I know how to spell or an act. So I forget how many I picked, but I picked a lot of them. And I think what I'll, I mean, I'll provide a link here to them, but I'll more like to be concise about it.
28:36Like it's, I think what's more interesting is like the way that I, as I was going over this this morning, I've bucketed things out, at least for me. And, and I think, I mean, you hit on each of these, but I think there's a good selection of them that are basically dealing with legacy, as I like to say. And, and, you know, I think that is one of the characteristics of, of definitely what Pivotal does in this space. And also in general, the cloud native thing is we're talking about not exclusively, but a lot of what we're trying to address is helping large organizations, whether they're for profit or not for profit, like, you know, government and other people figure out how to improve their custom written software. And, you know, I, I, I especially like that mission because if it has this sort of law of big numbers, which I think I'm misapplying, but like any, any small, even small incremental improve that improvement there, because these large organizations touch so much of our lives, like improves, has big improvements. Right. Which I think is fascinating. And also the problems they have are very wicked. So there's a good selection of sessions and we've highlighted them about how to upgrade your legacy, not only like software and hardware, but your meatware. As well, right. And there's, there's one session from one of the, the Pivotal people, which is not really dealing with legacy so much, but I think it would be interesting for this case. And it's, it's basically like how to win people over to doing a new thing. And I think, I think, I think that one will be interesting because that's a lot of what the tactics are is just getting people to do stuff in the new way. So then the other bucket that I have is like, for lack of a better phrase, cloud native coding. And it's, and it's the more technical things of, and I'll highlight like one, one, two things there that I think are interesting. It's sort of like, here's the actual technical angles of doing stuff. Ironically, I'll touch on the technical talks. I'm like the least technical person around here, but there's, I talked with this guy, Marcin, a while when I was in Poland, and he's involved in two sessions. One of them going over along, along with another presenter, like how, how this, this tracing software Zipkin is woven into spring cloud and platform and stuff.
30:39And he gave me some excellent demos on the, a train between Warsaw and Krakow. And with my systems management background, it is actually really fascinating to see how people are solving for monitoring and how that's working out there. Like doing distributed tracing back when I programmed was extremely difficult and also very, extremely expensive to buy. But the, you know, the, the, the methodology behind Zipkin and the benefit you get from using a cloud platform was fascinating. And so it'll be interesting to see him do that. And then he has another session in this bucket. That's, that's about how to, uh, I would call it like API and microservices design. And then a component of that is testing and verification. And there's this idea of having basically, uh, I don't know, contracts that you express and programatize a little bit to make sure that your APIs don't change around. And to add, as I kind of was talking back to him, we were discussing it at a little bit of like static typing into a very unstatically typed world of APIs. And that'll, that would be an interesting session to go to because again, like when you're a large organization, if you're kind of like small, it's one thing to be like, I don't know, JSON's pretty simple. And the developers will just curl their way into success. But in a large organization, you need some automation around making sure things don't blow up. But, you know, I, I listed some other ones in there and there's, there's plenty of good sessions. And, you know, I think you hit on all the, uh, the case studies, or at least we mentioned them there, but I think, I think there's, uh, there's some good ones. That interestingly, a lot of them deal with, uh, uh, CI and CD, but there is, there is that Home Depot one, which is, looks like it's a bit more meatware focused. And then finally, uh, before we wrap up, you know, because I knew my teammates would just be upset with me. I listed all the ones that on my team, the, uh, the advocate team, the ones that we're doing. And there's a lot on there. There's a fair amount on there that are sort of like, uh, I would call them our stump, stump speeches, including our own. And, you know, when you, when you go out and talk to conferences a lot, you basically have like, let's say one to three, uh, presentations that you give every time.
32:43Cause you don't really have time to put ones together. And so like, you know, myself and Bridget and Josh long, they have, uh, and I think to some extent, one of the ones Casey has given there's sort of variance on their stump speeches, which, which are excellent to go check out. That means they're really well practiced and they know them backwards and forwards. So, uh, things will work out. And then, and then there's also some on IOT and machine learning. And, uh, and also one of the points that I think comes up and let's say the intermediate stages of using Pivotal Cloud Foundry is you start extending the platform. And so Kenny is going to be talking to that. And what I mean by that is you have your own custom services or middleware or things like that, that you want to add in. I mean, I've probably even mentioned on this podcast, I always think as an example, uh, if you're in the travel and hospitality system, you probably have some reservation booking service. And, you know, unfortunately we can't ship that for you. So you have to add those services on your own to the platform. So your developers can start using it and iterating over it. And there's a, that there'll be an interesting session to see kind of an overview of how to start adding your customized services. But, uh, so that, that's my quick list of buckets. We'll put a link in so that you can, you can see the, you, the listener can see the whole list of them. But like, like you were saying at the beginning, like there's, there's a, it's a, a good mix of technical and process and non-technical sessions. I think, I think there's even a few like little jokey, like cultural things on there here and there to, uh, you know, to relax your brain from computers too much. Yeah. Yeah. And I, what's nice if you go to, I don't know if we'll link to the presenters page in the show notes as well, but, you know, there's also something about just hearing some of the people who are the best in their craft. And I'm going as an attendee, I'm not speaking at that this year. So I'm just excited to attend some of these and having sure the headliners like, you know, Adrian Cockroft and others coming to speak and Josh, you know, and all these people who are really well known in, in the industry. But, you know, a lot of other people who I know are great speakers, I'm just really interested in hearing from. And again, that's a fun part of conferences is to hear people who are great presenters because it makes you better in itself.
34:47So again, look at the presenter list. I think that's really exciting stuff. If you use PCF, great. It's a good, it's an obviously great conference to go to. If you're a developer at all in any area, this should be pretty awesome. And in, you know, let's not leave behind our ops friends, tons of great operational stuff that we'll be talking about. So, yeah, just a great, great excuse to get smarter on tech. And to that point, I mean, the reason it has a slightly goofy title is that it is the Spring framework. I don't know if they still call it that, but the Spring community coming together with a Pivotal Cloud Foundry community. So it's not all just Pivotal stuff. There's a tremendous amount. In fact, there probably is more Spring, just open source Spring stuff in there than anything else. So it's intended for developers and all sorts of stuff like that. And there's also, you know, we've also got some Ignite talks, which will be fun. I haven't actually checked those out. I need to go look at those. And there'll be plenty of hallway con opportunity. And I think there's even some sort of like pseudo unconference-y stuff going on. Yeah, I think there's some training as well that's already sold out on a couple of the things in the day or so before. And, you know, I believe we've got some deals with various companies that are going to host the videos after this is all done. But I think especially as you mentioned earlier on, you know, when I'm watching a conference presentation on my computer, I am 46% engaged, right? The rest of it is doing everything else. So there's still nothing that beats going to the conference for those hallway conversations to have single focus on a topic to just kind of ferment the wrong word. But I just want to absorb everything in that sort of setting without a lot of distraction, which you're not going to get if you try to watch the whole conference three months later from the comfort of your laptop. Yeah, yeah. I think the videos are good, as I was describing earlier, when you're trying to extract all the value out of stuff. Like it's actually nice to be able to rewind and all sorts of stuff like that. But being in person is vital. And I think one last thing. I don't know if all the details have been sorted out, but I'm going to be somehow involved in doing a bunch of videos.
36:50Yeah, I forget if I'm like the interviewer or I'm doing everything or whatever, but it'll be like the old Red Monk Glory days where I would just like stare at people and ask them to talk. Two little talking head stuff. That was always fun. This time, I'll not be wearing like a sports jacket because I don't have to pretend to be all fancy. I'll just be my natural self. Yeah, so we'll figure out if we're podcasting live on Monday or how risky we feel like being. Well, so if you're interested in all of that, the URL to go to is spring1platform.io, where you can input and output yourself or whatever the IO means as much as possible. And I have a discount code you can use. I think you have one too, so you can vote for who you like more. If you use the discount code Pivotal-Coté-300, you get $300 off registration. And what, do you have a code yourself? Yeah, you get the same one mixing in seroter in there. And if you do, you know, I think that that really signifies even a closer relationship of things you care about. Not just a Coté, but, you know, you go seroter, that means you're really into this. That's right. It means you enjoy like being more tidy, more professional. You're sort of like not just goofing around as you stumble through life like some art from cartoon. Serious about change. That's right. Serious about change. That's right. Instead of just an interloper. That's right. But as always, thanks for listening to Pivotal Conversations. And you can find us in SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash pivotalconversations. Or you can find us on the Pivotal blog at pivotal.io slash podcast. And, you know, if you deign to go into iTunes and leave us a rating or a review, that'll make us happy and just really like make our day. And also, you can reach out to us in Twitter. I'm Coté. And what are you, Richard? Yep. I'm at rseroder and, as always, love the chatter, the feedback if you enjoyed the session. Absolutely. And you can, if you prefer email, we're also podcast at pivotal.io.
38:52And hopefully, we'll see most of you at SpringOne Platform. It would be great to hear from you if you show up there. And we'll see everyone next time.