1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Hello everyone, it's March 11, 2008. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,000 We're here at the Austin Convention Center at South by Southwest. 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,000 This is RA Weekly number 10. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,000 I don't know if we'll need letters this episode. 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 I don't think so. 6 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,000 But this is the first video episode, right? 7 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,000 So that's kind of exciting. 8 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Well, we did have the Engage episode. 9 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Oh, we had the Engage episode, yes. 10 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,000 That's right. 11 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Which is a hard one to number because sequentially it was out of order. 12 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Yeah. 13 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Or chronologically it was out of order. 14 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:22,000 Yeah, yeah. 15 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,000 So we've been here four days, I think? 16 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,000 Yeah, four days. 17 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,000 Something like that. 18 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Something like that. 19 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,000 And it's been pretty exciting. 20 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,000 And I imagine you're pretty burned out since you were a mix. 21 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,000 Yes, exactly. 22 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,000 But, you know. 23 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,000 But Austin's a rejuvenating city, so it works out really well that way. 24 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,000 That's right. 25 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,000 And so this being kind of like a non-vendor based event, right? 26 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,000 It's been interesting to see the cross cut of RA stuff. 27 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,000 It is kind of interesting that there was Silverlight people and there was, you know, off-course Adobe people. 28 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,000 But there weren't really Ajax people. 29 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,000 Yeah, no. 30 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,000 It's been, yeah, kind of, I don't know who Ajax people would come. 31 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Like I'm assuming all the rounded corner kids are very Ajax-y in general. 32 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,000 So it's kind of our, it's kind of our people. 33 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,000 But yeah, there was a lot of Ajax vendors. 34 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,000 Yeah, maybe there, yeah. 35 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:08,000 I guess just the vendors don't really, it's too much sort of free and open source stuff, right? 36 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,000 Yeah. 37 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,000 And maybe not enough developer-y. 38 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,000 That's true. 39 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,000 There's definitely a geeky design-y slant to South by Southwest. 40 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,000 Right. 41 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,000 So yeah, that's a good point. 42 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:23,000 So most of all the fun stuff here is all like at parties and things like that, staying up late and, you know, having hamburgers and drinking. 43 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,000 Yes, exactly. 44 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,000 So what do you, I mean, we went to a lot of parties on our own and together and whatnot. 45 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,000 And so which one do you think worked out the best? 46 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,000 The best party? 47 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,000 I probably should say the Adobe party. 48 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,000 But I think the Fizz Pop party was actually the one that I thought was the best because they did a really good job. 49 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,000 Like it was a great event. 50 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,000 We didn't stay for the whole thing, of course, but, you know, it was lots of people, lots of energy. 51 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,000 There was lots of demoing. 52 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,000 There was lots of demoing, exactly. 53 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000 Right, right. 54 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,000 In a kind of a cool way that was part of the event. 55 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,000 So I think they did a pretty good job at that event. 56 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,000 Right, right. 57 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,000 It was my favorite one, I think. 58 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:59,000 And so when you come to an event like this, do you do a lot of work or are you more just sort of gathering and networking? 59 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,000 More gathering. 60 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:07,000 I usually have late mornings usually, so I usually do work in the morning to afternoon, then try to catch some sessions, then go out for the evening. 61 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,000 Right, right. 62 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,000 Yeah, collect business cards, basically. 63 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,000 Right. 64 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,000 You know, there weren't any announcements. 65 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:20,000 This isn't the kind of conference where there's announcements, but is there any sort of like, I mean, like I'm trying to think of the sort of maybe topical or stuff that kind of happened. 66 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,000 And I'll just answer my own question. 67 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,000 Yeah, I was going to say, what do you think? 68 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,000 I've actually had some fun discussions with some people about Silverlight. 69 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,000 Oh, nice. 70 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Like what they think is going on there, right? 71 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:39,000 And a couple of people I were talking to where they had a great theory that I just talked about when I was a guest on the Open Season podcast this morning that people are worried, or Google, I guess, was worried. 72 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:45,000 Like where the scuttlebutt goes or someone is that if you have Silverlight, they'll just be parts of the web that are dark to Google. 73 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Like inaccessible to them, right? 74 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,000 Because it's not just like normal HTML and things like that. 75 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,000 Ah, interesting. 76 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,000 Yeah, exactly. 77 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,000 So you could have -- and, you know, Adobe could do the same sort of thing, right? 78 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,000 It doesn't matter what the front end is. 79 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,000 The whole point is that it's not just HTML. 80 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,000 Yeah. 81 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,000 It doesn't get compiled down to HTML, so to speak. 82 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,000 And then at that point, it's kind of like Google's a little screwed. 83 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,000 Or, you know, anyone who depends on the web. 84 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,000 I had never thought about that angle before. 85 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:13,000 I think it's always been Microsoft and Adobe wanting to work with the search engines to make their content more accessible. 86 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,000 Right, right. 87 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,000 I mean, that's what you would assume, right? 88 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,000 Yeah, exactly. 89 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,000 But you're right. 90 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,000 No, there could be -- yeah. 91 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:25,000 Like if everyone is doing this rich Internet application stuff and all the data is hidden behind these Flash or Silverlight interfaces, 92 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,000 the other search engines would be kind of . 93 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,000 And then, you know, I mean, that idea is a recurrent theme in a lot of the places I stick in my head. 94 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:37,000 And especially in the idea of as you get new devices online, right? 95 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,000 Whether it's like we've talked about chumbies and Blu-rays and all this other stuff, right? 96 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,000 Yeah. 97 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,000 And essentially, you could run all of that on top of the web, right? 98 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,000 Or it could be run on top of the web but sort of encrypted like Skype. 99 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:54,000 Like Skype's a very closed black box thing that just runs over the Internet, right? 100 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,000 Or you could have a completely different web, you know, network, right? 101 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,000 That ran over cable networks or like Spectrum or all this other stuff. 102 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:08,000 And, you know, I only mention this because I've heard this concern many times over the past month or so. 103 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:13,000 Starting with like on the Gilmore Gang, they're always kind of talking about how Silverlight's going to crush everyone, right? 104 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,000 They're on that nowadays. 105 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Who else is on the Gilmore Gang, not to interrupt your flow? 106 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,000 Who is on the Gilmore Gang? 107 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,000 It's just there's a rotating panel of people, but there's like -- 108 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,000 Every now and then there's -- 109 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,000 Yeah, it's hard to say who's on it because there's like 10 or 15 people that kind of cycle through it. 110 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,000 And it's not really dependable who's going to be on there every time. 111 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,000 But, yeah, so I mean it's been interesting to think about -- 112 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:44,000 Like the thing I always think is that people, the elder software companies, so to speak, 113 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,000 are worried about having another sort of web happen to them, right? 114 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:53,000 Where the web happened and it really -- it was very slippery as far as being able to monetize it, right? 115 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,000 I mean it just comes along and it's kind of like not your yard. 116 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,000 Like you come -- as a vendor, you come to the web with equal footing as everyone else. 117 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,000 Exactly. 118 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,000 That means theoretically, right? 119 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,000 Well, yeah, yeah. 120 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Yeah. 121 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Whereas if you create an alternative network, then you can more do your own sort of thing. 122 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:10,000 That's interesting. 123 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:16,000 Well, especially on the devices side, yeah, because as content becomes distributed to multiple touch points or devices -- 124 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,000 Yeah, like how does Google index that? 125 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,000 Does brand become more important? 126 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,000 Right, right. 127 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,000 Like today, Google just got approval from the EU for the DoubleClick acquisition. 128 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,000 Right. 129 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:31,000 So like there's a big thing on TechBeam about like what Google and how that is going to be moving into display ads versus search ads. 130 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,000 Yeah. 131 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,000 You know, will they be able to target it just as well? 132 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Like are we moving back towards the kind of branding, rich media advertising? 133 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Yeah. 134 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,000 Whereas it used to be the text ads because that's what the web was and now the web is no longer just pages of text. 135 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,000 It's video, pictures, rich media application stuff, so. 136 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:53,000 And do you think in RIA stuff there's a lot of focus on non-ad monetization? 137 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:59,000 Like a lot of the stuff is -- I mean this is always my little snarky complaint of RIA stuff is like, oh, more video. 138 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,000 Yeah, yeah. 139 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,000 Which is sort of like broadcast medium going to the web and you monetize that with ads or whatever. 140 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,000 You know, like it's that voodoo of monetization that we're comfortable with, right? 141 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,000 Yeah, yeah. 142 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,000 But there doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion of like here's a $30 RIA application, right? 143 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,000 Yeah. 144 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,000 And I think part of that is because it's really difficult to track. 145 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,000 Like how -- like in fact I was presenting -- 146 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,000 Have a license key or something. 147 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,000 Well, I mean, so you could do -- you could sell it. 148 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,000 Like that would be one thing. 149 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,000 But like I was talking to -- I presented AIR to a group of people here in Austin. 150 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Yeah. 151 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,000 And one of the things they wanted to talk about afterwards was how do we actually get metrics for our rich internet applications. 152 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 153 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,000 It's like they use page views. 154 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Right. 155 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:41,000 So how do you decide whether it's successful and then you can kind of charge, monetize, and figure out that whole ecosystem of things. 156 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 But you don't have any way to track it right now. 157 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,000 Right. 158 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,000 I think that's the tough part. 159 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,000 So -- 160 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,000 Yeah, like a way to track usage. 161 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,000 Yeah. 162 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,000 That's interesting. 163 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,000 If you wanted to sell by usage instead of just selling outright license. 164 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 165 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Which is what you would have to do for advertising. 166 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,000 You'd like sell for usage or something like that, right? 167 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:01,000 I think we're still just now getting into the model of, you know, this is the $30 rich internet application. 168 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,000 Right. 169 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,000 I guess there is the iPhone thing last week about selling it to the music store, right? 170 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,000 Yeah, yeah. 171 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:12,000 And which we talked about last week a much more, to me, like very Macworld friendly way of pricing things. 172 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,000 Yeah, yeah. 173 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,000 I guess to recap and repeat myself. 174 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,000 Oh, yeah, yeah. 175 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,000 It's like -- it seems like in the Macworld is the only place where you can like successfully sell a $5 application. 176 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,000 Yeah, yeah. 177 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,000 And like I've bought tons of them and there's lots of them out there. 178 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Yeah, exactly. 179 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,000 I've wasted so much money on those applications. 180 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,000 And they're great applications like Puka, which you turned into. 181 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,000 Yeah, yeah, right. 182 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,000 I love that application. 183 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,000 Yeah, it is pretty nice. 184 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,000 Yeah, yeah. 185 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,000 But I mean, that's a good question. 186 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,000 And I think it's weird because the web is kind of moving to this services model anyway. 187 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,000 Right. 188 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:43,000 So to use RIA technologies to take a step back and be able to charge for it is maybe a little -- 189 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Yeah, you know, you see -- 190 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Mixed up for people. 191 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,000 I forget if it's Salesforce. 192 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:53,000 You know, everyone's always got an example of like here's just using RIA as just a face on an existing service 193 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,000 that we charge for. 194 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,000 And that -- I mean, that works out. 195 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,000 It's just like a different -- a flex version of Salesforce. 196 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,000 Like I said, I forget if they have one. 197 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,000 Yeah. 198 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,000 You know, whatever. 199 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,000 They have an Air client that I don't know if it's officially being used, 200 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,000 but they demo it. 201 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,000 Right. 202 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,000 That's right. 203 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,000 That's right. 204 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,000 And that -- I mean, that works as far as -- but you're not selling the RIA front end. 205 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,000 Exactly. 206 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,000 You're selling that service that has an RIA front end. 207 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:21,000 And I don't know if we've seen yet like here is an RIA application standing on its own that is sold. 208 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,000 I don't think so. 209 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,000 Like something like Twitter-rific. 210 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,000 Yeah. 211 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,000 Which is an OS 10, you know, client-side thing for Twitter is you can buy it for 30 bucks to get ads off of it. 212 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,000 And like I -- another thing I've wasted money on. 213 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,000 But it's a great little application written in Cocoa. 214 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:41,000 And, you know, there's an Air one and I'm sure there's like probably a Silverlight one running around somewhere or whatever. 215 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,000 And I wonder if people are actually going to be able to sell that just like straight up. 216 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Well, I would hope so. 217 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,000 I think -- especially -- I think it's hard -- I think it's really hard to sell browser-based applications, right? 218 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,000 Yeah. 219 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,000 So you can do Air applications, but Silverlight or Flash applications would be kind of tough. 220 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Yeah. 221 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,000 But yeah, I hope we see a huge marketplace for Air applications. 222 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:03,000 Like I can't believe you paid for Twitter-rific because the Twitter clients on Air are so much better than Twitter-rific. 223 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,000 Like they're beautiful. 224 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,000 I tried to use them like six, maybe seven months ago and it just couldn't compete. 225 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,000 I don't think you were using the right ones. 226 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Oh, man. 227 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Twirl, man. 228 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,000 Twirl is beautiful. 229 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,000 Here is like the killer feature I need in that while we go down this rabbit hole. 230 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,000 I need like friend autocomplete because I have like a lot of people that I follow, right? 231 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,000 Okay. 232 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,000 And like it doesn't -- it's very hard. 233 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,000 I mean people have crazy names and I can't spell for crap, right? 234 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,000 Yeah, yeah. 235 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,000 And so if someone has a crazy name or whatever, like I don't want to -- I have to go look it up. 236 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,000 And it actually takes me several minutes to like track down their Twitter name. 237 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,000 Does Twitter-rific do the auto-lookup for you? 238 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,000 It doesn't, but supposedly they're thinking about that, right? 239 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,000 Well, there's a client, Tweeter does auto-lookup. 240 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,000 So I don't think Twirl does, but Tweeter does. 241 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:46,000 So we'll get you hooked on the air, Twitter clients, because they're fantastic. 242 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,000 I don't know. 243 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,000 I don't know. 244 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,000 I'm pretty strong on the Twitter-rific. 245 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,000 I've got brand loyalty. 246 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,000 Well, you paid $30 for it, so I suppose you are. 247 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,000 Yeah. 248 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,000 Yeah, there is that. 249 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,000 So has there been any other exciting stuff that you've seen? 250 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,000 Been here at South by Southwest? 251 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,000 I guess not a ton. 252 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,000 Mostly just cool to talk to the whole, you know, kind of a crowd of people who are really into the web. 253 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,000 Yeah. 254 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,000 I mean, it seems like this is the kind of conference where everyone is. 255 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,000 Like, I don't know if you described it this way or we were talking about this with someone else, 256 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,000 but it's like the spring break for geeks. 257 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,000 Yeah, someone else was saying. 258 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,000 Yeah, yeah. 259 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000 I think that's kind of an apt comparison. 260 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,000 Absolutely. 261 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Because it is. 262 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,000 Everyone's here. 263 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,000 There's a lot of fun, impromptu conversations that happen. 264 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,000 Right. 265 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,000 And that's really the benefit to me. 266 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Right. 267 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,000 Even more than the panels. 268 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,000 It's just like, you know, oh, we can be all in the same place that are really smart, 269 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,000 talking about random stuff, and then ideas flourish. 270 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,000 Yeah, that makes sense. 271 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,000 You know, I've turned into one of those guys who I used to think these guys were pompous asses. 272 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,000 He's like, oh, I just spend time in the hallways. 273 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,000 But, like, now I'm that guy. 274 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,000 Yeah, exactly. 275 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,000 Of course. 276 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,000 You know, I had to go to one session and there was a line out the door, right? 277 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,000 And so I haven't gone to anything. 278 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,000 I've just been hanging out with people kind of nonstop. 279 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,000 But, you know, it seems like having not been to the sessions, it seems like a lot of the 280 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,000 themes are like, I don't know, basically Facebook stuff. 281 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,000 Yeah. 282 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,000 And then the more general thing of that, like having social networks and how to, I don't 283 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,000 know, doing something with that. 284 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Doing some stuff with your social networks. 285 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,000 Like, I think it was last year or the year before that, it was all about blogging. 286 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,000 Like, the bloggers were like, it was the thing that was happening, right? 287 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,000 You know, pro-blogging and being able to do that. 288 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,000 Whereas this year, it seems like it's social stuff. 289 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,000 Interesting. 290 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,000 Or as another person I was talking to was like, oh, yeah, it's like social, open, blah, blah, 291 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,000 blah, blah, blah. 292 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,000 I don't know, something with that. 293 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Yeah, yeah. 294 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000 Yeah, that person had come from the Facebook party. 295 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,000 Yes. 296 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,000 They were a little jaded. 297 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,000 They were a little overloaded. 298 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,000 Yeah. 299 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,000 Well, so what do you think the theme will be for next year? 300 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,000 Because this is my first album in Southwest. 301 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,000 Sure, sure. 302 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000 So I am seeing this all for the very first time. 303 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,000 Well, you know, so again, not having been to the sessions, but I've been building up a 304 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,000 theory from the, there's been sort of like conference-goer rebellion happening a little 305 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,000 bit. 306 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,000 Yeah, the Facebook. 307 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,000 The supposedly bad Facebook interview. 308 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Yeah. 309 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,000 Which, it's funny, everyone who's here has said it was terrible. 310 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,000 And then all the people who aren't here have said, I watched the video. 311 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,000 It wasn't that bad. 312 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,000 It wasn't that bad, yeah. 313 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,000 And then there was another panel that someone had written a blog post about where I think 314 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,000 some people were disappointed that the content level wasn't good enough. 315 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,000 It was one of these, you know, how to monetize social, blah, blah, blah, right? 316 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,000 Yeah. 317 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:17,000 And, you know, I got to thinking, like, after I read that, I think more so than maybe, like, 318 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,000 when the theme is blogging and we haven't ever heard about it, I think maybe people are 319 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,000 coming here this year and they're, like, ready to go, right? 320 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,000 Yeah. 321 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,000 And so they want to know, like, they want to be like, give me the action plan. 322 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,000 Give me the strategy. 323 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,000 Like, if I, there's a lot of sessions that are, like, top 10 this or practical that. 324 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,000 And, you know, I'm never surprised anymore when I happen to go to a session or listen 325 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,000 to a podcast of a session like that, that it's usually, like, blogs are a way of chronologically 326 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,000 ordering things. 327 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,000 Or, you know, it just, like, covers the very basics. 328 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,000 As if you're, like, explaining it to someone who's never known about it. 329 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:52,000 But I think people that are here, like, a lot of these tools have come from the consumer 330 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,000 space. 331 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,000 And so everyone here is living their day-to-day life in these tools. 332 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Yeah. 333 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000 So they know all the basics. 334 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,000 And I think they're ready to get a business plan. 335 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,000 And so that's kind of the theory that I've got. 336 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,000 Maybe for next year's will be, like, monetization will be this. 337 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Yeah. 338 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,000 Are we going to upscale it a little bit then to figure out? 339 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,000 Like, is that what people are all about? 340 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,000 Is making money? 341 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,000 I mean, is there, like-- 342 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,000 Yeah. 343 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,000 That's a dumb question, of course. 344 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,000 No, no, no. 345 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,000 It seems like this would be the place where that would matter less. 346 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:19,000 Like, people are more like, oh, let's get, you know, the touchy-feely rounded corners. 347 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,000 I think, no, I don't think it's that dumb of a question. 348 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:28,000 Because I think for a while in the tech world, it was less that. 349 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,000 Like, everything's always about making money. 350 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,000 Yeah, yeah. 351 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,000 I think the best book there, you should go read this book if you ever read it called The Goal, like, written in '84. 352 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000 Okay. 353 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,000 I'm going to give you a thrilling back-of-the-envelope summary of it. 354 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000 It's a business novel. 355 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,000 A business novel. 356 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,000 All right. 357 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,000 Nice. 358 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,000 I'm hooked already. 359 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,000 Yeah, yeah. 360 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,000 It's really a good book. 361 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,000 And the whole point of that book is that all business is about making money. 362 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,000 And, you know, rule number two, see rule one. 363 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,000 I mean, it's one of those things, right? 364 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,000 Yeah, yeah, okay. 365 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,000 And I think, until recently, it's been all about indirectly making money or kind of like, we'll figure it out or something like that. 366 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:05,000 But I think nowadays, individuals feel like they can make money individually on their own, right? 367 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,000 Yeah. 368 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:11,000 They don't have to, you know, necessarily get funding and then they can just be like, we'll figure out how to monetize it later, right? 369 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,000 I mean, that makes you kind of not care about day-to-day making money. 370 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,000 Exactly. 371 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:21,000 But I think, like, an organization of one person or two people or if you have a Facebook app or you're giving Apple your 30% cut on something, 372 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:28,000 things are being set up so that individuals and very small organizations or teams can make money directly on their own. 373 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,000 And I think people want that. 374 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,000 Yeah. 375 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:40,000 Like, it's kind of cool to get lots of funding, but I think we haven't had that new generation come in yet that hasn't heard the sob stories about getting venture funding. 376 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,000 Yes, yeah. 377 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,000 And so maybe in a few years they'll know about it. 378 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,000 I don't know, that's a long screed there. 379 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Well, it's interesting. 380 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,000 Is that maybe what the platform wars are all about? 381 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,000 You know, the platform wars being, especially in the rich internet application space. 382 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,000 Yeah. 383 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:58,000 Is it empowering the little guys so that they can build stuff so everyone is building stuff on your platform and making their own individual cut of money? 384 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,000 Absolutely. 385 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,000 Like, I think that's, you know, that's an interesting tactic. 386 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,000 Yeah, yeah. 387 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,000 Yeah. 388 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,000 Like, our goal at Adobe is penetration, obviously, and we're doing a lot of stuff with services to kind of… 389 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,000 Right. 390 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,000 And we're both on top of our platform, so a lot of it is driven from the top down as far as feature requirements. 391 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:18,000 But, you know, at the end of the day, I think that's kind of what everyone wants to enable is this ecosystem of people who can individually make money. 392 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,000 I've never really thought about it like that before. 393 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,000 Yeah. 394 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,000 Back at… 395 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,000 I'm having a total brain fart. 396 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,000 What's the name of your guys' mix conference? 397 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,000 Max. 398 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,000 Back at Max. 399 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,000 I love that. 400 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,000 Like, one letter off. 401 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,000 We were first, by the way. 402 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,000 I think the first Max I went to, like, two years ago in the lovely Venetian. 403 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,000 Yes. 404 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,000 Yes. 405 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,000 Our favorite. 406 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,000 I mean, I think it was the best thing along this line, and I tell the story to everyone. 407 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:48,000 Like, one of the keynotes, someone went up there, and it was, you know, they got all the slides of, like, the fun people, and it's in 16-4 format and all that crap, right? 408 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:56,000 But there was one slide that came up, and they were talking to Flash developers, and they basically said, "Here's how much money we made you last year." 409 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:02,000 And it was, like, I don't know, 20, 50 million dollars or something, and who knows where that figure came from, right? 410 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000 I remember this, actually. 411 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:10,000 But to basically have the room full of people who are… most of these sort of people are more, you know, independent people, or they work at agencies, or, you know, they're kind of… 412 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,000 I wouldn't say hand-to-mouth, but they're people who, like, have to worry about the checks cashing, right? 413 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,000 Yeah, yeah. 414 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:22,000 And to say, like, you, the Adobe community, here's how much money you made because of us is a very powerful thing. 415 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,000 Yeah, that was a good slide. 416 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:33,000 Yeah, and I haven't really seen that direct connection between money and, like, the platform, like, in any others, from Adobe or anyone else since then. 417 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:38,000 Just probably because it's an easy thing to attack because you're like, "Oh, where'd you get that stupid number?" 418 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:38,000 Yeah. 419 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,000 Right? 420 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,000 But I don't know. 421 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,000 I think to make a bold prediction, maybe next year we'll see more of those slides at South by Southwest. 422 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,000 Yeah, that would be interesting. 423 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,000 And I think that was easier because it was a mobile that goes on mobile platform. 424 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,000 Yeah, yeah. 425 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,000 So we knew exactly how much money was going out. 426 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,000 It's those closed networks that are easy to track, right? 427 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,000 Yeah, exactly, yeah. 428 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,000 That's a very good point. 429 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 430 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,000 But no, that's, I mean, I, yeah. 431 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,000 Like, if the iPhone's applications take off, they'll be able to have that slide, right? 432 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,000 Exactly. 433 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,000 You can say, "Yeah, we made you X amount of money." 434 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,000 Right, right. 435 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,000 And that's a power, that's a big deal. 436 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,000 Yeah. 437 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,000 So, yeah, especially as you said, you know, if you, anything can get hot. 438 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,000 So if you can be a little guy, and I think that's kind of where developer designer workflow comes. 439 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,000 Right. 440 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:20,000 You've got to have really great tooling so that one or two people can get together to build something that they can make money off of and make a living off of. 441 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,000 Right. 442 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:27,000 You know, not getting funding, not getting, being millionaires, just having a good lifestyle based on something you created. 443 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,000 Right, right. 444 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,000 You know, with your own hands. 445 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,000 Right, right, right. 446 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,000 The craftsman of the 21st century, if you will. 447 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,000 That's right. 448 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,000 Yeah, I mean, and you know, we revisit this idea of the, the empowered individual. 449 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,000 Yes. 450 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:45,000 Like, every five years or so, and, but to be less cynical, which is a little uncharacteristic, I think, I think we get a little closer. 451 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,000 It's one of those two steps forward, one step back thing. 452 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:57,000 And you know, I was, I was talking with someone saying how, one of the PR people I know here, and they're saying they've been talking to a lot of, of course, reporters and all that. 453 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Yes. 454 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,000 And this, this person was saying the crazy thing is everyone has a side project. 455 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,000 Yeah. 456 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:08,000 And even like a big magazine, like it could be, you know, gigantic magazines and everyone has at least one thing going on on the side. 457 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,000 And he was, you know, thinking like, I wonder how that, like, why is that? 458 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:20,000 And you know, my thought was that you used to need a large, you know, to, you've got to produce something, a product or a service that you collect money for, that goes out into the market. 459 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,000 Right. 460 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:30,000 And I think nowadays, especially for people whose product is information, the, you used to need a whole hierarchy of people to distribute, produce and get all this stuff out there. 461 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,000 But now all you have to do is click a button, you know, and be able to spell, right? 462 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000 Yeah. 463 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:43,000 And so if you can like write or produce a video or even like an application or something like that, it's actually pretty possible now that you can just put it up there. 464 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,000 It's not quite as hard as it used to be. 465 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,000 And so that's, there's kind of like that friction of starting up something on the side. 466 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,000 Like, you know, you don't need an, I need an assistant to do this. 467 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,000 Yeah. 468 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,000 And all this sort of stuff, so. 469 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,000 Well, that's, yeah, I mean, exactly. 470 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,000 And that's kind of, that's the great thing about the web, right? 471 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,000 Yeah. 472 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,000 Is there is no barrier to entry to do whatever you want. 473 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:07,000 Well, that's the, that's the promise we always had in the nineties and it kind of worked out, but it didn't kind of work out at volume, I see. 474 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,000 Yeah. 475 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,000 Right. 476 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,000 We didn't have like, like there aren't like thousands of people paying their bills off of blogging. 477 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,000 Yeah. 478 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,000 Right. 479 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,000 There's only like 50 or 100 or something. 480 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,000 Yeah, exactly. 481 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,000 It's a small number. 482 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,000 Or, you know, traditional media people who are like doing it now. 483 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:26,000 But we don't have quite the, you know, there, I guess there's a lot of eBay power. 484 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,000 There's a little like. 485 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,000 Yeah, there's been a little bit around for a long time. 486 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,000 That's true. 487 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,000 There's kind of like little shopping strips out there on the web. 488 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,000 Yeah. 489 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:38,000 People like making money, but it's, it's not like, it doesn't seem viable that someone can just quit their job and sort of like open up an Amazon shop. 490 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,000 Yeah. 491 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,000 And go to town. 492 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:46,000 But on the other hand, I think part of the appeal of side projects, especially when the economy is good, is that you can do something interesting to you. 493 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,000 Yeah. 494 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,000 And then use that as an avenue to do something else. 495 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,000 Like my, like my blog. 496 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,000 That's a good point. 497 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,000 I have a job at Adobe because of my blog. 498 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,000 That's a good point. 499 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,000 Right, right, right. 500 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Which is essentially a side project. 501 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,000 Right. 502 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,000 And it was something I was passionate about, I loved writing about, and it turned into a career. 503 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,000 And I think Anne Zelenka talks a lot about this. 504 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,000 Yeah. 505 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,000 Kind of that whole of using the blog or using your side project as a way to build your personal brand. 506 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,000 That's right. 507 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:16,000 So I think that's part of the appeal of side projects is that you can do something fun and interesting while at the same time the benefit is further down the road, but still kind of in the rear view, you know, in where you can see it. 508 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,000 That makes sense. 509 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,000 Yeah. 510 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,000 So were there any other exciting things you wanted to mention? 511 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,000 Not really. 512 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,000 What about you? 513 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,000 Yeah. 514 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,000 In Austin. 515 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,000 Yeah. 516 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,000 In fact, actually, there's an exciting thing I want to mention. 517 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,000 Yeah. 518 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,000 So South by Southwest, one of the really cool things that I have found, there are a lot of Flex developers who are kind of distributed all over the place. 519 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:38,000 And I went back and posted on my blog, I think yesterday or the day before, like, hey, can we get a Flex user group here in Austin? 520 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,000 Got a bunch of responses. 521 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000 People are like, oh, yeah, I'd love to have that. 522 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000 So there's one guy who was getting close to starting one. 523 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,000 So now it seems like I'm going to be able to bring all of these people from South by Southwest together to start a Flex user group here in Austin. 524 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Yeah, that is good. 525 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,000 Yeah, we were talking about, I think there's a lot of interest in RIA stuff in Austin. 526 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,000 And BMC, man. 527 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,000 I didn't realize BMC was doing a bunch of Flex stuff. 528 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,000 Yeah, yeah. 529 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,000 Your old crew. 530 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,000 They were at the first Engage with their dashboards. 531 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,000 That's right. 532 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,000 I forgot about that. 533 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,000 Yeah, that's right. 534 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,000 That's right. 535 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,000 So yeah, there's a lot of interest here. 536 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,000 So yeah, that was kind of cool for me. 537 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,000 And I think it's an example of South by Southwest helping bridge communities just because everyone's here. 538 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,000 Yeah. 539 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,000 No, it's like we said at the beginning. 540 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,000 It's mostly, if you can get over, like, I'm actually sort of like a secret introvert, right? 541 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,000 And if you can get over that, then it's actually nice to just be able to hang out with them. 542 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,000 Yeah, exactly. 543 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,000 That's really all that. 544 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,000 Yeah, there's not really anything. 545 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000 People, I've been asked like five times, have you seen anything interesting? 546 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,000 Anything cool? 547 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,000 I'd be like, no. 548 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,000 Just cool conversations. 549 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,000 Not really, yeah. 550 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,000 So yeah, what about you? 551 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,000 Anything exciting? 552 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,000 Anything fantastic? 553 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,000 No, not really. 554 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,000 The parties, the talk, the hallway conversation. 555 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 556 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,000 No, I mean, I think it's all the stuff that we spend a lot of time talking about. 557 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000 It's more of the intentions of the people. 558 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,000 Yeah. 559 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,000 And like kind of what they want to do as a group, right? 560 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,000 That I think is more interesting to see, to see where they're at, to use the old goose thing. 561 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,000 So then the last question. 562 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,000 So this is the first South by Southwest Interact you've been to, right? 563 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,000 Yes. 564 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,000 So do you have any like tips that you're going to use for yourself next year that you can tell to other people? 565 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:07,000 Like some ideas you tried out that didn't work or something like, oh, I should have done that. 566 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,000 No, not really. 567 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,000 You should figure out how to get less sleep. 568 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,000 Perfect execution. 569 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,000 Yeah, no, it was perfect this time around. 570 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,000 Like I was really stressed out about the party scene here before I got here. 571 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000 Yeah. 572 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,000 I thought you had to have everything scheduled. 573 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,000 That's kind of P.S. 574 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,000 Like, yeah, just come with your good ideas. 575 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,000 Right. 576 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,000 And, you know, walk around. 577 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,000 Yeah. 578 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,000 Hang out with people you know. 579 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Get introductions and then on the party scene, just walk up and down 6th Avenue. 580 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,000 Right. 581 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,000 Yeah. 582 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,000 And then find what's going on. 583 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,000 Right, right. 584 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,000 Up and down 6th Street. 585 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,000 Or 6th Street. 586 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,000 Yeah, it doesn't matter. 587 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,000 But yeah, yeah. 588 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,000 No, that's true. 589 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,000 You have to be flexible. 590 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,000 You've got to be okay being rude to like not go to a party or to leave. 591 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:48,000 And then on the other end of it, you have to be understanding that you can just lose someone in the crowd and not see them until tomorrow. 592 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,000 Exactly. 593 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,000 It's very fluid. 594 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,000 So you can't stress out about anything in South by Southwest. 595 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,000 That's right. 596 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,000 You've just got to chill. 597 00:22:54,000 --> 00:23:00,000 Well, I'll say at the risk of ruining this, my best kept secret of South by Southwest is the Driscoll Hotel bar. 598 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,000 And I think that's -- I'm not going to say where it is. 599 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,000 You better look it up if you care. 600 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,000 But if you get a little stressed out, you can go there and you've got to kind of find it. 601 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,000 But it's very relaxing. 602 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,000 Yeah. 603 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,000 It's not like a complete secret, but it's a good chill out place. 604 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,000 Yeah. 605 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,000 Exactly. 606 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,000 They have great martinis, gin martinis there. 607 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,000 That's right. 608 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,000 With Hendrix and cucumber water. 609 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,000 It's very -- it's nice. 610 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,000 That's right. 611 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,000 Classy. 612 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,000 Well, great. 613 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,000 Well, there's episode 10. 614 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000 Exactly. 615 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,000 Thanks, Coté. 616 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,000 It's been fun hanging out. 617 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,000 That's right. 618 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:27,840 in the Southwest. 619 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,640 - That's right.