1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Well, hello everybody. Here we are at IMPACT 2011, the IBM WebSphere Conference. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,000 We're actually in a sub-conference. We're at the Un-Conference, the IMPACT Un-Conference. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Is that the official title of it, the IMPACT Un-Conference? 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Yeah, absolutely, Un-Conference. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,000 And as always, this is Michael Coté of RedMonk, and I've got a guest with myself. 6 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Want to introduce yourself? 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,000 Sure. I'm Andy Piper. I work in our Hursley Laboratory, which is in the UK. 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:28,000 I think my job title at the moment, because it kind of moves around a bit, 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,000 well, it's WebSphere Messaging Community Lead is what I do. 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,000 Ah, right. Basically, that's MQ. It's Q stuff, right? 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,000 Yeah, absolutely. 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,000 What falls under WebSphere Messaging? 13 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,000 So the stuff, and that stuff was originally invented and developed from Hursley, 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,000 which is where I sit. So yeah, so what have we got? 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:49,000 We've got WebSphere MQ, which is Q stuff. We've got a family of products around that. 16 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,000 So we've got the WebSphere MQ File Transfer Edition, which enables you to move files over MQ. 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:59,000 We've got WebSphere MQ Low Latency Messaging for very high-speed messaging. 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:06,000 We've got WebSphere MQ Telemetry, which is about mobile and sensor networks. 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,000 I'm going to miss something. We've got WebSphere MQ Advanced Message Security, which is for encrypting messages. 20 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,000 Right. 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,000 We've got a message broker, which is our enterprise service bar. 22 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,000 There's this resurgence of queues in architectures. 23 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,000 I'm not even going to say enterprise architectures. 24 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,000 No. 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:28,000 Because what's interesting is that all sorts of architectures for software, they're sort of rediscovering, I guess, using a queue, 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,000 or to put it another way, having an event-driven architecture, a bus or something like that. 27 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:37,000 And the fact that by doing so, you can actually start to parallelize workload, you know? Isn't that an amazing thought? 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,000 Right. 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:46,000 Yeah, absolutely. The idea of feeding some work to a process over a period of time and not having to have it instantly respond, 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,000 but knowing that it will be done. 31 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000 Have it be asynchronous, I guess. 32 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,000 Yeah. And that word, again, we've been talking about the last couple of days. 33 00:01:52,000 --> 00:02:00,000 I've been a consultant, you know, and often people hear the word asynchronous and they go, "Uh, that sounds slow." 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,000 Right? 35 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:08,000 And it's like, no, it's just the difference between what we're doing, you know, having an immediate conversation and an immediate response. 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,000 Right. 37 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:15,000 Or may get a very false response, but it's not time-dependent, right? 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Yeah, yeah. 39 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,000 That's what it means. Asynchronous is not something that's not time-dependent. 40 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,000 I feel like at some point asynchronous programming fell out of use. 41 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:28,000 I don't know if it fell out of favor, but it kind of, because I guess maybe it all came down to web applications, 42 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,000 which is a very synchronous sort of process. 43 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,000 A request comes in and there's, I'm drawing a line here, a request completes. 44 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,000 Like, you expect the client to be waiting. 45 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,000 Well, it does. I mean, that's right. I mean, HTTP times out, right? An HTTP request will time out. 46 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,000 Right. And then Ajax came along and A being asynchronous, if I remember. 47 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,000 And I guess that kind of started to change things around a little bit. 48 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,000 So, what exactly is a queue? Like, how does a queue operate? 49 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:57,000 So, I think of a queue as a bucket into which I can throw something and then take it back or something else. 50 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Somebody else can take it out every now and then when they need it. 51 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:08,000 So, what queuing and message queue, MQ, lets us do is to say, here's a bunch of data I'm creating. 52 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,000 And I'm just going to put it over there. 53 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,000 And I may come and get it back later myself as a process or actually another process might take it from there. 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,000 Right. 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,000 It's just a place to put pieces of work or pieces of data. 56 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,000 The important thing to note is it's not a database, right? 57 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,000 It's not somewhere you're shoving data to store. 58 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,000 Right. 59 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,000 You're putting it there temporarily until somebody comes along and takes it away and does something else with it. 60 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,000 And so, does that imply that it's sort of not searchable, if you will? 61 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,000 It's not searchable in the same way as a database. 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,000 What we can do is we can do things like assign a load of unique IDs. 63 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,000 And actually, that's exactly how message queuing works is that every message has a unique ID. 64 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,000 Right. 65 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,000 And we can go and find that ID and get it from the pile. 66 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,000 That's the extent to which it's searchable. 67 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,000 But you're not expecting to do like a full text. 68 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,000 A bunch of queries. 69 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,000 Yeah, a full text index on a bunch of data. 70 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,000 So, why don't you just use like a shared directory? 71 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,000 I mean, that would kind of be, that's a bucket, right? 72 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:07,000 It's a bucket which is very secure and stable and assured, right? 73 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:16,000 So, the goal is to say, let's take away the need to give stuff to a file system which could crash or become corrupt. 74 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,000 Let's give it to a thing which will put it into this queue for us and give it back to us or give it to something else. 75 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,000 And by the way, that queue may not be local to me. 76 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,000 It may be over a network somewhere. 77 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,000 So, yes, you could put it in a shared directory in the sense of a network drive. 78 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:38,000 But then, of course, you need the same file system technology or, you know, everybody needs to implement SAM or NFS or whatever you're going to share. 79 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,000 Right. 80 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:46,000 I mean, what you're getting at, correct me if I'm wrong, is that if you use a directory, then you're depending on the file system and the storage. 81 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,000 Yeah. 82 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,000 As part of your architecture rather than depending on a higher up abstraction, depending on a service. 83 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,000 That's right. 84 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,000 Exactly. 85 00:04:54,000 --> 00:05:00,000 And one of the, and I'll try not to do the, you know, the chess beating sales pitch and that's not what I'm here for at all. 86 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:09,000 But one of the things about MQ and one of the reasons why it has been very widely adopted over the last 10, 15 years is because it does run on a large variety of platforms. 87 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,000 It has, provides the same API. 88 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:16,000 You're not having to think, okay, I'm on Windows now, so I need to use the .NET API to get to my file system. 89 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:21,000 I'm on a, on a Mac, I need to use C to get, objective C to get to my, to my file system, right? 90 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,000 Right. 91 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,000 It's a totally different way. 92 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,000 It's the same API on any platform that MQ exists. 93 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,000 You've got the ability, as I mentioned, to choose to send data over a network to some other queue. 94 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,000 It's a, it's a passing mechanism. 95 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,000 And, and then inherent in networking. 96 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,000 I mean, once, once you bring some network thing, there's security gets involved. 97 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Security. 98 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,000 Giving access. 99 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,000 Channels and things like that. 100 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:47,000 So we, we have an MQ is a concept of a channel between two queue managers that own all of the queues on that system. 101 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,000 And then between them, we have a channel and we can encrypt that tunnel. 102 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,000 Right. 103 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,000 Using SSL. 104 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,000 So yeah, you have security. 105 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,000 You have the ability. 106 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,000 And this is another important aspect of MQ is assurance, right? 107 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,000 You want to just rely on the fact that you have something reliable moving the data for you. 108 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,000 And, and, and, and in the case of MQ and maybe queues in general. 109 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,000 Yeah. 110 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:13,000 Is that assurance the same thing as sort of transactional integrity in, in a database? 111 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,000 Or is it more assurance that your stuff won't disappear? 112 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,000 Or is it both? 113 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,000 Yes. 114 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,000 Yes. 115 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:26,000 And, and, and what I mean by that is, you know, in, in, in database terms, like a transactional thing is that, uh, there will never be two states of the data. 116 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,000 Yeah. 117 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,000 That, that you're accessing. 118 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,000 So absolutely. 119 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:37,000 So, and, and the, and there's another aspect of course, which is when you're talking about databases, you talk about, um, two phase commits and all that kind of stuff. 120 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,000 And the ability to say, I want to do these operations and either the whole set of operations commits or fails. 121 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,000 And actually I might want to do that with two databases or, and a file system. 122 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,000 Right. 123 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,000 So transferring money between two accounts is a classic example. 124 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,000 Exactly. 125 00:06:50,000 --> 00:07:02,000 So MQ is very commonly used in those kinds of scenarios to say, I need to get this message from this queue, update those two database tables belonging to two different systems and put this message to this queue and do all of that within a transaction. 126 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Right. 127 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,000 So we, that, that's what our message broker and our MQ technology does for you. 128 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,000 Um, but yeah, you're absolutely right. 129 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:14,000 The, the assurance is I'm giving my stuff to some other process to look after for me and I want to make sure that it arrives. 130 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:29,000 So when I get told locally by the queue manager that it's got my data and put it on the put has succeeded, then I can rely on the assurance that my MQ network will get that data somewhere else once and once only. 131 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,000 Right, right, right. 132 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,000 Okay. 133 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,000 That's another important concept here. 134 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,000 You're not getting duplication. 135 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 136 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,000 Otherwise you might end up doing the same operation twice. 137 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:50,000 Uh, and, and, and then yeah, uh, if, if something crashes, if my local queue manager or remote queue manager crashes and we've put that message in what we call a persistent state because we can do things in memory as well and be non persistent. 138 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,000 Right. 139 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 Um, that we could recover to a known state. 140 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 141 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,000 Right. 142 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,000 So yeah, you don't want to lose work, especially if you're updating bank accounts. 143 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,000 Right. 144 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,000 You must know better than I do how old MQ is. 145 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Right. 146 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,000 But it's definitely been, it's one of the older IBM software. 147 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,000 Yeah. 148 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,000 It used to be called MQ series. 149 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,000 It's about 15 years, I think now. 150 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,000 Right, right. 151 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:16,000 And so to give you the chance to not so much be a salesman, but, but, but kind of say what that gets you, like the differentiation that MQ has. 152 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:25,000 I mean, what, what is it about MQ that makes it something beyond like an ES, an open source ESB that you might get or an open source queue. 153 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,000 But first of all, it gives you stability of function, right? 154 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,000 So we've been around for a long time. 155 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,000 Um, and, and, and actually the upgrade ability has been really good as well. 156 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,000 Yeah. 157 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,000 So you can take a, you know, different versions of MQ and they can talk to one another. 158 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,000 And that's always been. 159 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,000 So, so the sort of cross platform interoperability. 160 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Exactly. 161 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,000 You mentioned that earlier. 162 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,000 And upgrade ability. 163 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 164 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,000 So, so that's the first thing. 165 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,000 Longevity of the. 166 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Yeah. 167 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:52,000 So in terms of feature, you've got, you know, we've also constantly working on, working to improve performance. 168 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,000 You've got a high performing system if you, if you need one, if you need to tune it that way. 169 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:01,000 You've got things like clustering, which let you, do let you distribute work over a number of different systems. 170 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:06,000 And actually it's one of the things that we would come back to around this rediscovery of the idea of queuing. 171 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,000 Right. 172 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Did you hear that news about Twitter rewriting their search engine? 173 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Oh, right, right, right. 174 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,000 And, and I was reading that they, they've actually now got a thing which dispatches your query to one of several engines. 175 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,000 So they can suddenly work like balance all these queries that are coming into their search engine. 176 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,000 That's what clustering does for you, right? 177 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,000 Right, right. 178 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,000 You can start to move, move work around really easily. 179 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,000 You've got, oh gosh, you've got loads of things. 180 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,000 Security. 181 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,000 You've got this emergence of this new family of products in the last two or three years. 182 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,000 The file transfer, the advanced message security, the telemetry. 183 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:41,000 These have all been added onto MQ because the vision for MQ from, from an IBM perspective is universal messaging. 184 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:47,000 So the idea is that data, your data are anytime, anywhere, if you like. 185 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,000 Sure. 186 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:53,000 Over whatever is the appropriate quality of service to give you at the point that you're at. 187 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,000 Are you in your transactional data center or are you on a mobile device? 188 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,000 Right, right, right. 189 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,000 How fast do you need to go? 190 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,000 How reliable does it need to be? 191 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,000 How secure does it need to be? 192 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,000 So you sort of customize the footprint or the profile down to the end point? 193 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,000 In a way. 194 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,000 So that's particularly what telemetry is actually. 195 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Telemetry is absolutely for smaller devices customized to the network capability that's available, 196 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,000 that kind of thing. 197 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:21,000 One thing I'm always curious about with middleware, and I use that phrase tentatively here, is, 198 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:27,000 would you say when someone's, some organization is using MQ, is it more of a middleware component 199 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,000 in their software stack or is it a system that they're running? 200 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,000 Oh. 201 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,000 Does that distinction make sense? 202 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,000 Yeah, okay. 203 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,000 I would say it's a middleware component, really. 204 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,000 Right. 205 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,000 So it's kind of, it's not a service. 206 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,000 It's a capability. 207 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,000 It's not a universal sort of service. 208 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,000 No, no. 209 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,000 I mean, services would usually themselves use MQ or run on MQ. 210 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,000 So you might, your program, your service. 211 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,000 Right. 212 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,000 Your application may be, may use MQ to do its interface to the world. 213 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,000 Right. 214 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:56,000 If you think about an application, we're talking about this in the on conference this morning, actually. 215 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:03,000 And a guy was asking about files and how do I get, move away from file driven batch to SOA services. 216 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:08,000 And actually, you know, people are always going to be sending files in some form or another. 217 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:13,000 So you might be able to reduce the number of files coming in, but you're probably not going to eliminate them. 218 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,000 So get over them. 219 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,000 Files are just so comfortable. 220 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,000 Well, they are. 221 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,000 They are. 222 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,000 And, you know, everybody has notepad and we can just hack away. 223 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,000 Right. 224 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,000 But more to the point. 225 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,000 That's how I submit my batch jobs. 226 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,000 Notepad. 227 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,000 Notepad. 228 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Nice. 229 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,000 Nice. 230 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,000 So, but it's just another interface. 231 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,000 So if you think of a program that takes input, you mentioned shared directories maybe. 232 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,000 It could be reading files. 233 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,000 It could be reading from queues. 234 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,000 It could be receiving HTTP calls. 235 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,000 It could be coming in over TCP. 236 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,000 You know, you've got a range of different ways. 237 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:44,000 So, you can see files and queues as different interfaces to your services. 238 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,000 So, coming back to your question, therefore, I would see queuing as a component. 239 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,000 You know, a middleware component. 240 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,000 Right, right, right. 241 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,000 A feature, a capability of your system. 242 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:54,000 Right. 243 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,000 So it's not something bigger than the applications that use it that you kind of integrate with. 244 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,000 It's more you pull it in as part of your application. 245 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,000 Yeah, I mean, one of the ways that people often talk about it is as plumbing, right? 246 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Yeah. 247 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,000 You know, it's the pipe work that goes underneath your house. 248 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,000 Right, right. 249 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,000 Having taken a kind of technology-first approach. 250 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,000 So, you know, I think a lot of people, including myself until I was beaten over the head with 251 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,000 it a lot, like they hear things like batch job and jobs and queues. 252 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,000 And frankly, it's sort of like I have no idea how that stuff is used. 253 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,000 Like what the business applications of that are, right? 254 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:26,000 Right. 255 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,000 And then like you were saying, you know, people ask like, oh, we get these files transferred 256 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,000 to us. 257 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,000 And what do we do with that? 258 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:37,000 And it would be great to hear sort of like what, I'm always hesitating because I want 259 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000 to come up with something that doesn't sound like a stupid business term, but like what 260 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,000 business services are these queues being used for? 261 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,000 I mean, everyone. 262 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:51,000 I mean, I've been a consultant and I've worked with, you know, retail and finance and government 263 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:56,000 and every system can conceptually use them. 264 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000 Right. 265 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,000 And many companies and organizations and industries do use them. 266 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Yeah. 267 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,000 I mean, the need to transfer data between point A and point B or point A and points B, C, 268 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,000 D, E and F or whatever is every application needs that. 269 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:14,000 But, but it seems like it seems like there's a certain class of applications that use queues 270 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,000 a lot more than others. 271 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:21,000 And like, like a lot of financial applications use queues to basically to synchronize payments 272 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,000 or transfers between accounts. 273 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,000 I mean, things like that. 274 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,000 There's things that I think if you were writing this kind of application, you'd probably use a 275 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,000 queue just without thinking about it. 276 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,000 Whereas as you were saying, someone like Twitter is not going to be using a queue. 277 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,000 Yeah. 278 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,000 But I mean, the other thing is, so web services. 279 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000 Web services, great. 280 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:42,000 I know you guys are really big fans of the web service standards and all that XML stuff. 281 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,000 Yeah. 282 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:50,000 So, so HTTP is great as a, as a transport for web services, except it's synchronous. 283 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,000 Right. 284 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:56,000 So if the other end isn't listening or isn't available or is too busy, then your call will time 285 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,000 out and you will have to handle that. 286 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,000 So, hey, what a great idea. 287 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,000 If, if that guy's too busy because it's, it's got loads of incoming requests, then why not, 288 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,000 instead of having an HTTP call, put a queue there. 289 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,000 Yeah. 290 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,000 So you can do things like web services over JMS. 291 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:15,000 So, you know, your, your, your calling application that's invoking the service can just, just do 292 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,000 that via, via sending a message somewhere. 293 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,000 It doesn't have to be synchronous. 294 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,000 Right. 295 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,000 And then it can wait and come back later. 296 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:26,000 So you've got things like the WS addressing standard, which let you say, call me back on this address 297 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,000 later when, when you're done. 298 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,000 All right. 299 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,000 Okay. 300 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:34,000 And, and, and, and I imagine, and correct me if I'm wrong, but situations like, like retail 301 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,000 data might be nice for that. 302 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,000 If you have like hundreds of stores that need to, for whatever reason, send their current 303 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,000 inventory needs to a central place. 304 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,000 Well, that kind of thing is also trickle feed, right? 305 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,000 The idea of trickle feed is, is kind of very powerful in retail that you just want to, as, 306 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,000 as people, you know, buy stuff through, come through Best Buy and going through transactions 307 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:55,000 of the, of the, of the, of the, of the register, then those just maybe get fired off up. 308 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,000 Uh, so it's a lot more real time than like 24 hour batches or something. 309 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,000 It can be real time. 310 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,000 It can be real time. 311 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,000 Absolutely. 312 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,000 And then all of those transactions batched up in the store and then overnight FTP them 313 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,000 to, to home. 314 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,000 You could just start to literally feed them. 315 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,000 If you go in the Apple store, you know, and they'll say, uh, do you want me to receive 316 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,000 email to you? 317 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,000 Right. 318 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,000 And, you know, magically they email it to you. 319 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,000 Yeah. 320 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,000 Yeah. 321 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,000 You can also go online and see what you've purchased. 322 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,000 So there's probably a queue involved in there somewhere. 323 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,000 Who knows? 324 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,000 I guess kind of the, the last question is, so, I mean, MQ is like 15 years old. 325 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,000 Right. 326 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,000 And what, I mean, what, what are you guys thinking about doing in the next five years or whatever? 327 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,000 Right. 328 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,000 Like something that's as old as MQ at some point. 329 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,000 Let's not calling it old. 330 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,000 Let's just, you know, it's not old. 331 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,000 Something that says, is mature. 332 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,000 It's rich and mature. 333 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,000 Right. 334 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,000 There you go. 335 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,000 Very capable. 336 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,000 Well said. 337 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,000 Like, you know, there's always this question of, let me grab my blue, blue hat and blue, 338 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000 blue collar. 339 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Right. 340 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,000 There's always this question of, is there anything left to do? 341 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,000 Right. 342 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,000 And there is. 343 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,000 And there is. 344 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,000 Whatever things that are left to do in the queuing space. 345 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,000 Right. 346 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,000 So there's emerging models and emerging programming patterns and ways of accessing data. 347 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:02,000 So I mentioned our telemetry protocol, which is very optimized for what, for IBM smarter 348 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000 planet story. 349 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,000 Right. 350 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,000 The whole smarter planet. 351 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,000 Well, let's, let's make use of this instrumented planet we've built and start to get, receive 352 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,000 data from those sensors onto our data backbone, which is MQ. 353 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,000 To trickle in perhaps, as you were saying. 354 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,000 Yeah. 355 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,000 A trickle in maybe. 356 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,000 Or maybe you need to actually do kind of two way communications. 357 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000 So, so that's a nice and interesting model. 358 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,000 There are also things like some of the new, newer web push models. 359 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,000 And I can't talk too much about specific plans, but, but you know, we're very aware 360 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:38,000 of things like the ability to push data to web browsers through new technologies. 361 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,000 Right. 362 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,000 There's sort of new endpoints that emerge that you want to integrate with. 363 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,000 Yeah, absolutely. 364 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,000 You know, mobile is obviously huge. 365 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:51,000 And, and, and it's about not abandoning the existing data backbone customers, because that's, 366 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,000 you know, because they're absolutely cool. 367 00:16:53,000 --> 00:17:01,000 But to extend the ability to interact with the queuing fabric from new, new programming models, 368 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,000 new languages, and new protocols potentially. 369 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:09,000 So, yeah, you can see that telemetry is as an example of one of those. 370 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,000 The ability to plug into your existing MQ infrastructure. 371 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,000 Right. 372 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,000 With a specialized protocol for, for lightweight networks. 373 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,000 Right, right, right. 374 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,000 Yeah, no. 375 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,000 That's, that's where we, that's, that's, that's where all of the cool stuff's happening. 376 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,000 Yeah, yeah. 377 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:28,000 And also some of the data encryption around the compliance situations that people find themselves 378 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,000 in, we've, we've been looking at that. 379 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,000 I mean, you've just got to look at the releases over the last few years that we've been doing. 380 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,000 And that's where they're geared. 381 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,000 Usability is always important as well. 382 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,000 You know, the ability to more effectively manage things in a nice usable way. 383 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000 I think it's a great product from usability perspective anyway. 384 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,000 Right. 385 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,000 But there's always nicer things you can tweak. 386 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,000 Well, great. 387 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Well, thanks for taking all this time to go over MQ stuff. 388 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,000 No worries. 389 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,000 Thanks for taking all this time to go over MQ stuff. 390 00:17:51,000 --> 00:18:20,980 Thank you.