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Why don't you tell us where we are?

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Oh, okay, let's do that again.

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We're in Barcelona, Microsoft TechEd IT Forum.

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That's almost like a Tivoli product name, it's so long and messed up.

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How does this one rack up so far for all the past ones you've been through?

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The management, the MMSs, if you will.

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I think one of the things is just that there's a new...

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How would I call it?

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It used to be a little bit wild west.

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The Microsoft management strategy.

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You had products that didn't work that well.

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So you had organizations that had made these choices and they were perhaps struggling.

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I mean, like SMS, classic, you know, go back a few years.

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That was a real issue.

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Right.

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And so I think that there was a degree of, you know,

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while Microsoft was going, we're going to get there.

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And I think the community responds to that.

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It's like, okay, they didn't get it right, but we're going to get there.

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And we're all...

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Now it just...

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I think the debate has kind of moved on a little bit more and it's a bit more...

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Almost a bit more sort of professional.

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You can see the audience is perhaps a little bit older.

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Right, right.

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We're all a little bit greyer.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I think that's...

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So the event is just...

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It's probably a little bit more mature and it's a little bit less wild west.

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I think that's...

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If I came away with any impression about the look of the audience and so on and the kind of people, it would probably be true.

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What's your take on the system center rebranding since you've lived through the bomb and SMS stuff?

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Oh, it couldn't have happened soon enough.

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I mean...

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Are you all for it?

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Yeah.

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I mean, really...

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And not to put too fine a point on it, I was pushing for this...

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Yeah.

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You know, years ago.

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I mean, when Michael Emanuel was doing some strategic work and...

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The thing about Microsoft, one of the other things that I'm just increasingly realized is how kind of oriental they are in their time frames.

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That they really do think in terms of like 10 to 15 years.

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Right.

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You're so used to software companies that can't think beyond, you know, the quarter and what their sales are.

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Microsoft is so willing to go, "Well, we're taking this longer-term view."

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So when I was bashing, you know, "You've got to change the name because everybody..."

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You know, I mean, well, Steven's a good example.

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Steven O'Grady, he's had to use SMS as it was and he...

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Well, as he said, I mean, he would certainly never use it again.

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Configuration manager, though.

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Oh, configuration manager, maybe.

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Maybe.

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So I think that what was funny was that I was pushing for this years ago and Michael was like, "Don't worry, we have a plan."

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I'm taking another tack.

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You know, people...

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Kind of the hot poker that you can stick in people at this event is VMware, right?

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Oh, yeah.

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The brand of that.

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And if I remember, there was some virtualization, some management that actually worked on ESX servers, I think we saw in the keynote the other day.

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And, I mean, what do you think is going to happen there?

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Like, is VMware trying to, like, make its own little island of IT or do you think, you know, things are going to work out, this whole standard of stuff?

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I mean, I'm always skeptical of the, uh, whatever, the VMH or whatever, we've got this virtual machine standard and then...

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Well, if I was going to...

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You end up having the jets and the sharks of standards and they just battle it out, right?

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Instead of, uh, all of them being in one gang.

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I think that's what's going to happen.

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Yeah.

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Um, you know, it's difficult to, you know, point what probability but, you know, let's chiggle the crystal balls.

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I mean, the simple fact is...

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Try again later.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, try again later.

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I mean, this industry thrives on, on confrontation.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And, you know, some of it is they just have to have people who want to kill at any given time.

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And so, for Microsoft right now, VMware and Red Hat are both companies that they desperately want to...

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Right.

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They don't want those companies to have franchises.

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They want to make sure they cut them off before that happens.

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And, you know, just very clearly to me, um, you know, in some ways you can sort of say that's just daft.

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When they stand up, and, and this was a statement, you know, quite recently, you know, there are only going to be two virtualization environments going forward.

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Xen and Microsoft Virtual Services.

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Right.

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I mean, the only problem is Xen has not necessarily fully risen to the challenge.

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Um, we'll see how that works out.

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So, it seems to me, I think, I, I think very clearly VMware is a franchise and it's going to be a long-term battle.

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This is not, this is not sort of, uh, again, this is not a quarter or two quarters.

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It's not like a Netscape maybe.

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No, exactly.

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So, you know, in an answer yesterday, what was that?

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Uh, in, in Hypervisor, uh, VMware probably has a, a two to four year lead.

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That's a big statement, but it's a very confident statement about how to address the challenge.

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So, yeah, no, I mean, it's just going to, they're not ever going to get along, I don't think.

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It is interesting because, you know, who, you know, who are going to be the friend makers?

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Is it, is it HP that would have all the environments in there?

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Right, right.

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Traditionally, you might have thought IBM, but IBM has really kind of moved out of that, uh, the Windows stuff.

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Right, right.

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So, you know, they support it, but...

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Yeah, they, they seem to be, uh, attempting to disengage from Microsoft at the moment, right?

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They do seem to be disengaging from Microsoft.

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I, I, I mean, they never explicitly say anything, but you've got Symphony and the, uh, the, um, you know, basically Office competitor.

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Mm-hm.

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That they're giving away for free and, and they're, uh, all, it's funny though, all their, all their executives still use PowerPoint and Word.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is weird, that is weird.

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But they still, they're, they're a little cooler on Microsoft than they used to be.

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Undoubtedly.

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Even like a year ago or so.

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So it's just a management, and that may be part of the thing, because they know that now Microsoft is stepping up to it.

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Right.

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I mean, they can't, the, the, the, some of the scalable technology that Microsoft is delivering, um, it's getting good now.

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I mean, it's like that when SQL Server stopped being, stopped being sucked.

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Right.

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You know, and that was a really critical moment, when SQL Server genuinely was enterprise scalable.

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Right.

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And, and, and, you know, in, in production environments, but also getting great TPCC and so on.

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I think we're beginning to see some of those maturity characters.

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What's TPPC?

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Oh, Transaction Processing Council.

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Ah, excellent.

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It's, uh, basically it's a measure of performance.

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Right, right, right.

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So, it, you know, they have the, the pissing match, all the server vendors.

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You know, we have the best TPCC.

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Right, right.

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And, you know, they, there are, there are a couple of different, they have one for data warehousing, one for transaction processing.

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And it, you know, it's really just vendor, vendor sports.

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But the point is that SQL Server became a real data.

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Yeah, and, and really working in production environments.

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Yeah.

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And I think we're beginning to see that in other areas.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And that, I mean, from an IBM perspective, you have to sort of say, well, you know, we can't really afford to, you know, be friends with these guys.

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Um, so I think, and, and not to be great friends, Jesus Christ.

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Um.

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Um, well, I, I, I mean, they, uh, they are the, uh, they have this weird, it's, I wouldn't say symbiotic, but sort of accidentally pseudo-parasitic relationship over the decades, right?

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Absolutely. Web services is the prime example.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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WS.

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Well, I, I mean, all the way back to the PC and, I mean, they've, uh, basically been a weird dysfunctional marriage.

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Well, no, I think it's, it's not a dysfunctional marriage so much, it's almost more like a, a--

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Maybe a normal marriage.

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No, no, I don't even think it's marriage.

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It's more like, it's, it's, it's, it's, I think it's more--

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Neighbors.

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More oedipal than that.

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Ah, ah.

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I, I think it's more like, uh, a, a, a, you know, a dad and their kid.

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Ah, nice, nice.

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And, to begin with, the feisty kid is just growing fast and it's all good and--

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Right, right.

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You know, but, but it gets just more and more oedipal all the time.

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Sure, sure.

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And then, the funny thing is, of course, that the kid eventually turns into the dad.

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Right, right.

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And I think Microsoft does get more like IBM all the time.

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Dude, this way, man.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I got pushed over.

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You, uh--

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I was dominating you.

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You, you, you could, so, you know, you got this hypervisor V thing.

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What was that again?

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That's right.

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That, this hypervisor V thing and the price is like 38 bucks.

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The low, low price.

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Something ridiculous, right?

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Or, as, as Eric Boyer actually said, freaking cheap.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And so, I, I mean, uh, I mean, what, what, what's your take on that?

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Like, as far as like, I mean, if it's 38 bucks, how much lower could the barriers be?

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A lot of people like to see code.

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Yeah.

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But that's coming at it from, uh, the perspective of somebody that is, you know, very open source oriented.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Um, a lot of other people just don't give a crap.

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Right.

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There's no reason, I mean, you know, Microsoft doesn't have to please the, the wing nuts.

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Right.

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You know, they need to please the vast majority of the market.

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And that vast majority of the market has continued to buy their products.

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So, yes, there's open source there and I think in management there's some.

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But look, we don't see, we don't see Tivoli, BMC, CA or any of these guys giving away or open sourcing all of their management stuff.

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No, not at all.

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And then we've got what you call the little four.

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Sure.

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So, you know, new, uh, little companies coming in, doing things slightly differently.

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But I, and I, I honestly, I mean, and again, hey, Redmonk, we're allowed to talk about IBM and Microsoft, I guess.

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They're converging.

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Right.

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In terms of their views on source code management and development and community development.

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I mean, we're seeing, you know, they're coming at it from slightly different angles.

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Right.

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And from, but, but IBM has sort of done the, hey, let's open source stuff kind of experiment.

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And now they're bringing it back and you look at Project Jazz and everything else.

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And much more, wait, let's control this.

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Let's make sure that we can make a margin on everything.

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It can't be just about the services.

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That didn't work as well as we expected.

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Meanwhile, Microsoft has done more and more in sort of open source.

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I think that convergence is, is, that's what the industry's all about.

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Right.

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I mean, everybody's doing shared source in some regards or other.

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So, five slapping good stuff.

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That's right.

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PowerShell.

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Yes.

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I think that is, it's funny.

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I mean, that's, that's what's under the covers here.

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But I think is, is the most important technology.

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I think that is the most important technology Microsoft has ever introduced.

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Right.

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In system management.

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Sure.

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That is to me, what makes it a serious, a serious player in systems management.

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That the ability to really do script different, script different, script different stuff in

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terms of managing the models.

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Yeah, yeah.

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That is hugely powerful.

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And the ability to, you know, just simple GUIs to build these scripts.

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Or you just deal with the script itself.

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That I think is, it's just a shame we don't have an open source implementation, right?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I mean, but, I mean to your point, the, I mean, that's, that's just a model of IT management

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that works.

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Is, is writing scripts for things.

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Yeah.

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It's, it's not always like ideal.

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And, I mean, there's all these exceptions, but if you were to, it seems like the, the,

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the worst of all evils.

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Right?

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Of course you want to have your automation stuff and all this stuff built on top of it

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to sort of reduce islands of control and, and you know, script chaos and everything.

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But, the fact of the matter is like, everyone has a unique IT, well, many people have unique

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IT setups that are just like, unique maybe only by a small variance.

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And having that ability to customize things through scripting is incredibly valuable.

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And that's, it's, it's what prevents IT from being a pain in the ass.

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It is.

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I mean, you're never going to get rid of, get rid of the bailing wire and chewing gum.

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Right, right.

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And post-it notes and so on that data centers run on.

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Right, right.

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So I think the only thing you can do is, is give really good bailing wire and chewing gum

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and post-it notes.

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Right, right.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I think that, that PowerShell sort of has some of those characteristics.

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It's, it's like the awesome, the awesome bailing wire.

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There you go.

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For the data center.

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It's fantastic.

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Well, if the, if the pace that we've actually been, you know, in the same physical locale

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keeps up, I'll probably see you next week.

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Well, great.

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I've had such a good time.

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I think, I think it's been three weeks in a row, right?

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It is, it is, it is.

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It's awesome.

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I don't even remember what it was three weeks ago.

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I know we were in Stanford and, and we were, man.

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Well, we were with Adobe again, here quite recently.

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Yeah, but that was a long time.

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We have a bad case of travel, forgive me.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, you're just on the road all the time.

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Now, can Doppler help me out with this?

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Well, yeah.

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Does it have a history of places I've been?

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Of course it does.

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Fantastic.

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It's got a journal.

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Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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It's got journal functionality.

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Hard to go look it up in Doppler.

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Trip reports.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You can do all kinds of good shit.

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I mean, who knows what those guys, hey, of course, it's Redbook.

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We're in Big Doppler again.

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I didn't even start that.

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That's right.

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It's true.

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But, yeah, it will tell you where you've been.

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Right, right.

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Well, I'd better go look that up.

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But it won't tell you, oh, and it will even tell you where you're going.

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Oh, nice.

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But I realized I didn't put my German trip in next week, and I didn't tell Natalie either,

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which means I'm back in the shit.

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Oh, Christ.

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They fucked up.

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Let's get some coffee and don't think about it.

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*laughs*