1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,160 Well, hello everybody. Here we are at the Rational Software Conference 2009 in Orlando, Florida 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,660 as always. And we've got another guest with ourselves. Would you like to introduce yourself? 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,540 Sure. I'm Scott Hebner and I'm the marketing leader for Rational. 4 00:00:13,540 --> 00:00:17,760 I guess the first kind of fun thing to ask is, as I was very carefully making sure to 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,040 say, this is RSC, not RSDC. 6 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:20,640 That's right. 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,040 So the question is, what happened to the D? Where'd that get off to? 8 00:00:24,380 --> 00:00:28,280 Yeah, well, it's been an evolution. This is actually our 12th conference. And it used 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:33,760 to be called RUC, which was the Rational User Conference, and then it became the Rational 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,680 Software Development Conference. And now what we've done is, we were going to call it the 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,860 Rational Software Delivery Conference, because what's really happening here is the audience 12 00:00:43,860 --> 00:00:50,160 that's here is beyond just developers now. It used to be a very developer-oriented, developer-centric 13 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:54,460 conference, and it's evolved to be really about software in general. How do you get value 14 00:00:54,460 --> 00:00:59,680 at a software? Whether you build it yourself, develop it yourself, whether you buy package 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,860 applications like SAP or Oracle, or you're using services, applications in the cloud, or however 16 00:01:04,860 --> 00:01:10,580 you get the applications. Customers have a big portfolio of application investments. So 17 00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:15,080 what Rational has really become all about now is helping them get value out of it, make the 18 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:20,300 right investments, execute with precision, be able to do things not only well, but do the 19 00:01:20,300 --> 00:01:25,580 right things. So we're starting to broaden it. And what's interesting about the show, the 20 00:01:25,580 --> 00:01:30,020 statistics that I saw in registrations, I don't know what the finals are, but only about 40% 21 00:01:30,020 --> 00:01:31,700 of the people here are actually developers. 22 00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:41,420 You've got IT executives, you've got security analysts, you've got product managers that build 23 00:01:41,420 --> 00:01:48,800 cars, or medical devices, you've got security analysts. So basically what you have is you have 24 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:54,920 people that are responsible for using software in their company, in one form or the other. I don't 25 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,240 mean using it in terms of, you know, the end users, but using it as a tool for the business. 26 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,940 Using it as a tool for the business, right. And so it's a much broader conversation than 27 00:02:02,940 --> 00:02:10,060 it was many years ago. And we felt that we were losing attendance because the thought that 28 00:02:10,060 --> 00:02:13,980 it was about software developers. The other interesting dynamic here is that it's becoming more than 29 00:02:13,980 --> 00:02:18,500 just rational, right? Because you start to think about what's being discussed at the conference 30 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:23,060 like Smart Products and Smarter Planet and the role that Tivoli plays and the role that 31 00:02:23,060 --> 00:02:25,660 WebSphere plays and it's becoming cross-brand. 32 00:02:25,660 --> 00:02:31,260 Yeah. I mean, for all the IBM events I go to, it was kind of weird and fun, on the other 33 00:02:31,260 --> 00:02:35,180 hand, to see Al Zoller up there from Tivoli talking, which is, there's not always a lot 34 00:02:35,180 --> 00:02:42,540 of cross-brand GM keynoting and things like that. And it was nice to see the sort of like 35 00:02:42,540 --> 00:02:46,880 software development side of everything Tivoli was talking about, hooking up with the rational 36 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:47,780 side and vice versa. 37 00:02:47,980 --> 00:02:52,940 Right, right. So like we have IBM Pulse, we have IBM Impact, right? And 38 00:02:52,940 --> 00:02:56,640 so we've got to think hard about over time, you know, what do we do with the name of this 39 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:56,740 conference? 40 00:02:56,740 --> 00:02:57,920 You've got to come up with a snappy name. 41 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,200 We've got to come up with a snappy name and perhaps we shouldn't tie it to only rational 42 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:07,800 and really broaden its values. Impact is all about business processes, right? And Pulse 43 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:13,840 obviously is about service management and operational, both asset and, you know, physical or virtual 44 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,380 services like applications. And so what's this conference about? This conference is about 45 00:03:18,380 --> 00:03:24,180 software investment management, delivery of software. Again, whether you source it from the external 46 00:03:24,180 --> 00:03:28,480 world or whether you build it yourself is a secondary thing. So just because we took D, 47 00:03:28,700 --> 00:03:31,680 development, out of the title, doesn't mean that there's not a boatload of developers here. 48 00:03:31,940 --> 00:03:34,100 It is still a developers conference, but it's more than that. 49 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:39,000 I've been trying to kind of sort out in my head the, whether you want to call it the evolution 50 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,520 or addition or whatever that, that, that rational is kind of going through. And it does seem 51 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,980 like this year there is, to, to your point of what you're talking about, there's a lot 52 00:03:45,980 --> 00:03:50,780 more emphasis on, I guess, the management of, of software as an asset that a company. 53 00:03:50,780 --> 00:03:55,780 And I wonder with some of the things that you talked about this year at, at RSC this year, 54 00:03:55,860 --> 00:03:59,800 like, like what, like what are the tools and other things that you guys are providing now 55 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,840 to help people? I mean, I guess at the end of the day, a lot of what we're talking about 56 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,680 gets down to there's some person or team of people who are going to make some decision 57 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,840 about software in the company, like, and allocating things like that. And so, I mean, 58 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,200 what are some of the tools and stuff that you guys have been talking about this year 59 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:13,820 that help with that? 60 00:04:13,820 --> 00:04:19,280 It's just so much about doing the right things, not just doing everything well, right? And 61 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:23,780 I think if you kind of look at this, the evolution of all this, you know, it used to be about 62 00:04:23,780 --> 00:04:27,200 the individual, making the individual more productive, they can produce more code, it's 63 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,480 higher quality. Then it was about the project teams, right? Things like clear quest, clear 64 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,700 case. It was all about being effective with the teams. Then it became more of an organizational 65 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:38,900 discussion. How do you share assets and skills? How do you, how do you have the flexibility 66 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:43,420 to move things and share things across multiple projects? And now we're onto this discussion 67 00:04:43,420 --> 00:04:49,180 about the next tier, which is about the business. We have a bunch of studies that show that 68 00:04:49,180 --> 00:04:53,120 in general, the IT leaders and the business leaders aren't always seeing things the same 69 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:58,560 way. And most business leaders, almost 80% of them, have a feeling that IT is not executing 70 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,640 on their priorities. So there is a chasm between what the business feels it needs and what they 71 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,020 think IT is actually executing against. So that's a big part of the new expansion now is, you know, 72 00:05:08,020 --> 00:05:13,020 I think we're making really good progress as a community in doing things well. Now the trick is, are we doing what's 73 00:05:13,020 --> 00:05:16,780 really needed for the business as the business priorities are always evolving and changing? 74 00:05:16,780 --> 00:05:16,780 Right, right, right. 75 00:05:16,780 --> 00:05:18,780 How do you keep everyone in sync, right? 76 00:05:18,780 --> 00:05:24,540 So that's what some of the newer products this week are, like rational insight. It's all about executive dashboards 77 00:05:24,540 --> 00:05:30,300 that can monitor in real time, right, a real data collection, you know, sense if you will. It's 78 00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:35,420 all instrumented. What projects you have underway, how they're performing, are they on budget, are they 79 00:05:35,420 --> 00:05:40,300 on target, you know, then you can say I'm putting this much money in this project and that much on that and 80 00:05:40,300 --> 00:05:43,340 that can be viewed by the business people saying, oh no, you should really do it the other way around 81 00:05:43,340 --> 00:05:47,100 because that one's a higher priority. And it creates that conversation not only on where the money's 82 00:05:47,100 --> 00:05:54,140 going and the investments are going, but how are they progressing, right? You know, who's behind and who's not and so forth. And then you can 83 00:05:54,140 --> 00:05:59,580 react and shift things. Another product would be rational focal point for project management, so this is a 84 00:05:59,580 --> 00:06:05,740 brand new product. And that's about the project managers making sure they're able to in real time, again, 85 00:06:05,740 --> 00:06:10,460 understand the status of the project in a lot more granularity so they can see what's working and 86 00:06:10,460 --> 00:06:14,860 what's not working and they can then respond. And does that follow a similar sort of, I don't know, 87 00:06:14,860 --> 00:06:19,820 pattern or architecture or sort of interworking as insight where you're sort of each of the different steps 88 00:06:19,820 --> 00:06:25,260 or repositories or whatever. The different moving parts are somehow instrumented and there's reporting 89 00:06:25,260 --> 00:06:25,260 that goes through that. 90 00:06:25,260 --> 00:06:29,420 Exactly. It's just different, it's different tiers or different links of the same chain, 91 00:06:29,420 --> 00:06:37,020 right? So the JAZZ technology platform is what integrates it all together and allows you to create a process 92 00:06:37,020 --> 00:06:42,700 out of it. The measured capability improvement framework is this methodology that we're now 93 00:06:43,740 --> 00:06:48,140 talking about and helping customers with, which helps you establish your business goals, establish 94 00:06:48,140 --> 00:06:52,700 your operational goals to implement the business goals, and then what are the best practices in 95 00:06:52,700 --> 00:06:57,580 achieving the operational goals. You might want to, you know, you're realizing that competition keeps 96 00:06:57,580 --> 00:07:02,780 beating you to market. So you want to cut your new release of your product from 18 months to 12 97 00:07:02,780 --> 00:07:06,700 months. That's your business objective. Then you set up a set of operational objectives that says, 98 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:12,540 okay, in order to do that, you know, we need to stop rework because we do 40% of the rework because 99 00:07:12,540 --> 00:07:16,140 we seem to get the requirements wrong, right? So that's your operational objective. Then you say, 100 00:07:16,140 --> 00:07:21,100 okay, what are the best practices that we can put into, you know, into action that will help us 101 00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:25,900 improve our requirements management so that we're not reworking things all the time? And there's a set 102 00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:31,100 of best practices that then get created that can be implemented in JAZZ. Right. So what you have 103 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:35,820 with Insight is the executive dashboards built on Cognos that allows you to monitor everything. 104 00:07:36,380 --> 00:07:42,060 The focal point tool is then the project, the actual project management tool with all the metrics and, 105 00:07:42,060 --> 00:07:45,420 you know, here's how many people are on this and you can shift things around depending on who's behind, 106 00:07:45,420 --> 00:07:51,980 who's not. And then you get into products like Rational Requirements Composer that not only helps you to 107 00:07:51,980 --> 00:07:56,700 derive a greater degree of precision in the requirements, so you're doing the right things, 108 00:07:56,700 --> 00:08:02,460 but it helps keep everyone in sync through collaboration technology so that if the business 109 00:08:02,460 --> 00:08:06,700 leaders are thinking there's a change or if you're an agile development project and you realize we can 110 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:10,540 actually do things in a different way, you want to make sure the business people are okay and it helps 111 00:08:10,540 --> 00:08:17,340 facilitate that collaboration so that everyone's in sync and therefore ultimately you don't rework as much. 112 00:08:17,340 --> 00:08:21,660 And so really what JAZZ is doing in these three products I just mentioned that are new this week, 113 00:08:21,660 --> 00:08:27,420 they're helping to take the application life cycle management infrastructure that the teams use 114 00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:33,340 and putting a layer on top of it that allows them to now interact with the business leaders and the 115 00:08:33,340 --> 00:08:41,260 IT executives and the CIO and the CFO in a way that in the past was always manual and was always ad hoc. 116 00:08:41,260 --> 00:08:48,300 You've mentioned the business needs several times. I mean, obviously, it's always nice not to create software in a vacuum 117 00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:53,820 and hook up to that. And that always seems to have been a plagued problem of whatever you want to call it, 118 00:08:53,820 --> 00:08:59,020 application life cycle management or software development is somehow linking those two things together 119 00:08:59,020 --> 00:09:03,900 and making them mesh together more so than just the development folks saying like, 120 00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:08,780 we've got this iteration done or something or somehow assessing the value between the two. And I'm curious, 121 00:09:08,780 --> 00:09:14,940 a lot of the MCI or some of the MCIF stuff seems to address this, this, as we used to call it, 122 00:09:14,940 --> 00:09:20,700 business IT alignment or whatever in the operations area. And I wonder what, like what some of the things 123 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:24,700 you've been talking about, how it sort of hooks up or sort of has the business hooked down into, 124 00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:26,860 if you will, the development process. 125 00:09:26,860 --> 00:09:32,300 I think there's a couple of macro things going on here. First of all, I think most businesses viewed 126 00:09:33,180 --> 00:09:39,260 their investments in software and IT as being an operational enabler. It was about getting a 127 00:09:39,260 --> 00:09:44,860 process built and deployed. So it was never viewed as a strategic business asset. It wasn't like the 128 00:09:44,860 --> 00:09:51,820 capital that you have or the buildings and all the physical assets. It wasn't like your fleet of 129 00:09:51,820 --> 00:09:56,140 delivery trucks where you really managed that very, very well. You knew where all the investments were, 130 00:09:56,140 --> 00:10:01,020 and how they were performing and how many miles were on this truck versus that truck and the services. 131 00:10:01,020 --> 00:10:05,900 Software was never managed that way because it was really in the back room thing to enable the process. 132 00:10:05,900 --> 00:10:08,380 Right. I mean, what's interesting is that it kind of implies that you can 133 00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:14,060 not care about it in a negative sort of way, sort of a black box of budget, if you will. 134 00:10:14,060 --> 00:10:17,420 And I think the truth of the matter is that everyone cared about it, but it was one of those 135 00:10:17,420 --> 00:10:23,500 things that was in the background. Most business leaders were saying, look, I need an application to do 136 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:30,300 this, right? And someone would go off and build it, but they left it to a great degree of it was 137 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:34,140 really up to the IT team on how to figure out how to do it. And then they come back and say, well, 138 00:10:34,140 --> 00:10:38,540 it doesn't quite do what I need to do. But now think about their use of software. 139 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:42,380 It is so critically important to the business people, right? 140 00:10:42,380 --> 00:10:49,180 If you're going to be, if you're going to be a leading car, an automobile manufacturer or treadmills even, 141 00:10:49,180 --> 00:10:52,700 I remember reading an article a couple of years ago when I was buying a treadmill, 142 00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:58,700 the number one buying criteria is the programs. It's no longer the, you know, and so if you don't build, 143 00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:03,180 so that the product people, the business people care more and more about the software, right? 144 00:11:03,180 --> 00:11:07,420 You can't have an online website that's up to sell your product unless it's PCI compliant because you 145 00:11:07,420 --> 00:11:11,980 can't have credit card transactions. So there's a much greater degree of focus there and the business 146 00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:17,180 people are always coming up with new ways to create money and enter new markets and very fast moving, 147 00:11:17,180 --> 00:11:24,780 very dynamic. And it's the whole notion of manual connections, right? And the more you can automate 148 00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:30,380 them, the more you can, you know, facilitate, um, a collaborative environment where you can work 149 00:11:30,380 --> 00:11:35,260 together and keep, be kept in sync. And then the ability to really agree on what you're trying 150 00:11:35,260 --> 00:11:40,380 to achieve and then continuously understand and approve where you are. Um, and that's really what's 151 00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:44,380 happening here is the, the line is finally blurring between development, operations, and business. 152 00:11:44,380 --> 00:11:45,100 Right, right. 153 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:48,860 We've always talked about it, but even though we've talked about it, it still was very mandatory. 154 00:11:48,860 --> 00:11:54,540 There's always been, um, communication between business, operations, and development. There's always 155 00:11:54,540 --> 00:12:00,620 been an attempt to try to align it all. Right. But that doesn't mean that they are aligned because 156 00:12:00,620 --> 00:12:03,500 they're, you know, you have different, a whole bunch of moving parts in each one of those three 157 00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:08,700 areas. Right. Right. And I think the magic sauce here, if you will, or the secret sauce here, 158 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:14,140 is that if you can automate how you interact with each other, that's based on real-time information, 159 00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:19,020 right, in a clear set of objectives, and you can facilitate the collaboration, again, 160 00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:24,300 in real time, right, in an easy-to-use fashion that people can really collaborate on priorities 161 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:29,180 and status, and everyone can see the view that they want to see. Right. And then you're 162 00:12:29,180 --> 00:12:32,860 able to, you know, agree, again, not only on the metrics, but you're able to monitor them, 163 00:12:32,860 --> 00:12:38,620 and improve them, and it's really all about the automation, and the collaboration, and the 164 00:12:38,620 --> 00:12:42,380 ability to report against how you're progressing. Right. And what's interesting with this whole 165 00:12:42,380 --> 00:12:46,060 conversation is that those are the three pillars of a business process. Even if you're doing an 166 00:12:46,060 --> 00:12:51,660 insurance process for an insurance process to process a claim, right, you need the right people 167 00:12:51,660 --> 00:12:55,660 collaborating in the business, you want to automate its use, productive, and you want to know how many 168 00:12:55,660 --> 00:12:59,660 claims you're able to process and whether you can improve the number and the quality of them. And so 169 00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:03,500 you measure it, and then you learn what's not working, you improve it. So it's the same kind of 170 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:08,380 things needed here is the way to get these teams working together is to put a business process in 171 00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:11,740 place for how you go about investing in and delivering software. It's almost as if it's sort 172 00:13:11,740 --> 00:13:18,140 of the maturation of software used in business to be a little bit more professional, if you will. 173 00:13:18,140 --> 00:13:23,340 I think software is one of the most exciting areas to be in, I think, and it's come a long way. Just 174 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:27,980 think about the last 10, 15 years. I mean, it's just amazing. I mean, it wasn't long ago that I 175 00:13:27,980 --> 00:13:33,660 remember with OpenDoc, I think it was like in 1995 or 1996 or something like that, say 10 years ago, 176 00:13:33,660 --> 00:13:38,540 we were amazed that we had two clocks running at the same time on Windows. Remember that? Yeah. 177 00:13:38,540 --> 00:13:44,860 That was not that long ago. You look at other industries, like if you're a producer of mechanical 178 00:13:44,860 --> 00:13:49,260 products or electronics products, they've got that down to an art form. You've got these big machines, 179 00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:54,460 they can crank these things out, right? Very well designed in terms of process and all that. 180 00:13:54,460 --> 00:13:58,940 And software, just because it's much newer, you know, it hasn't gotten to that level yet of 181 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:05,340 science. Of stability. Of stability and science. But now it has to be because now it's affecting, 182 00:14:06,060 --> 00:14:10,940 you know, if you're a producer of a product, whether it be a physical product like a car, 183 00:14:10,940 --> 00:14:15,980 or whether it be a virtual product like advice, right? Or whether it be like, you know, like AIG, 184 00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:19,500 you know, the financial products division, right? It's all about the financial stuff. 185 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:24,700 So an application could be a product. It's affecting your product safety, your product 186 00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:28,700 reliability, your brand image, your customer satisfaction. You could potentially get into 187 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:33,980 lawsuits where you get sued. There's a lot of, you know, recalls, you know, cars are getting recalled, 188 00:14:33,980 --> 00:14:38,540 medical devices and, you know, almost invariably, it comes down to, man, there was a software. 189 00:14:38,540 --> 00:14:43,180 In this world that, I mean, it used to be that you deploy an application, if something wasn't 190 00:14:43,180 --> 00:14:47,180 working, we've all gone through this, right? Where some things doesn't quite work right, 191 00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:51,420 or there's an error, and then it's fixing the next release, right? If your Blackberry or iPhone 192 00:14:51,420 --> 00:14:55,340 software doesn't work, you know, it's okay, you get another release of it. Or, you know, 193 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:59,980 everyone has either cable or satellite dishes, right? And, you know, there's always downloading of 194 00:14:59,980 --> 00:15:03,900 new software and firmware updates. And so we sort of live in that world. But you start thinking about 195 00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:08,380 these broader uses now of software, you've got to get it right the first time. You can't have your 196 00:15:08,380 --> 00:15:14,540 analog brakes or your exhaust system in your car or your sensor windshield wipers not. So the 197 00:15:14,540 --> 00:15:19,820 competency of a product manufacturer, now that they have, you know, is becoming a software 198 00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:23,660 competency because that's what differentiates all these products. And so software has become more 199 00:15:23,660 --> 00:15:28,060 than just an IT and a business enabler from a business process perspective. It's becoming the key 200 00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:33,180 ingredient in all these different products. Right. And therefore, it is more than doubled 201 00:15:33,180 --> 00:15:38,060 in importance just by the nature that it's being used so much more pervasively. And I think business 202 00:15:38,060 --> 00:15:42,220 leaders around the world are starting to say, you know, I got to stop ignoring it. I mean, to me, 203 00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:45,980 it was a technical thing. I know it was important. I know that it was enabling a lot of business 204 00:15:45,980 --> 00:15:52,700 capability. But it's such an important thing now, right, that we need to really start to understand, 205 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:57,260 you know, if we're putting this much money into software that's accumulated this much over the 206 00:15:57,260 --> 00:16:02,140 last many years, you know, are we really sure we're getting the value out of it? Well, great. Well, 207 00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:05,740 thanks for spending all this time to talk with us. I think that sort of added some nice dimension to 208 00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:10,620 the announcements that I've been looking over. Yeah, you bet. I look forward to our next conversation. 209 00:16:10,620 --> 00:16:14,940 We'll see you at what level we're at. We'll see you in six or 12 months, depending on what happens. 210 00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:19,100 I think last time, it was about six months ago that we talked last, right? Yeah. I think our next 211 00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:22,460 conversation, I bet you we'll start getting into this notion of dynamic infrastructure and 212 00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:27,420 agility at scale and cloud and, you know, because I think the next major step here is, 213 00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:30,860 okay, how do I start to really free up more capital and more money to invest in 214 00:16:31,980 --> 00:16:36,060 new innovative projects? More efficient as a community and how we produce software. Now we're 215 00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:39,100 worried about making sure we're aligning that with the business needs in terms of the investments 216 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:42,940 that the business is making in us as a community. I think the next step is now, how do we help to 217 00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:48,780 free up money and capital so that we can reinvest in doing more and more projects that are going to help the 218 00:16:48,780 --> 00:16:52,620 business, right? Right. And I think that's when you start getting into these discussions of cloud 219 00:16:53,420 --> 00:16:58,700 and software as a service. You're not only building applications for that, but software delivery 220 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:03,260 and collaborative life cycle management services that are on the cloud. Right, right. You know, 221 00:17:03,260 --> 00:17:07,580 I want to onboard you real quick to do a project in the next week for me. I don't want to have to go 222 00:17:07,580 --> 00:17:12,540 buy you tools and get you, you know, all these things. You can just dynamically provision a set of, 223 00:17:13,100 --> 00:17:18,300 you know, client services and boom, you get it done. And then a week later, you're doing something else. Then I 224 00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:23,020 deep provision it and I only have to pay for it for a week. Well, great. Well, okay. Thanks for sending 225 00:17:23,020 --> 00:17:24,380 all this time to talk with us. You bet.