1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,300 Well, hello everybody. Here we are in Austin, Texas at the TeleLogic Users Conference, Innovation 2 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:14,140 2008, and we've got another exciting special guest with us, actually a returning guest 3 00:00:14,140 --> 00:00:16,980 to RedMonk TV. Would you like to introduce yourself? 4 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:24,020 Yes, my name is Neera Chandra. I am responsible for Worldwide Strategy for Rational across 5 00:00:24,020 --> 00:00:25,100 the whole band. 6 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:29,000 And as further background, you're obviously from the TeleLogic family. 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:35,600 Yes, I came from TeleLogic, where I was responsible for the product strategy and the corporate strategy. 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:41,600 And since you've been part of TeleLogic for a while, I'm curious how this year's conference 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,500 sort of compares against previous ones. 10 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:49,260 So this year's conference actually, from a very personal viewpoint, has far exceeded my 11 00:00:49,260 --> 00:00:54,800 expectation, because given the economic climate, you know, there are tremendous amount of restrictions 12 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:55,800 on travel. 13 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:56,800 Right. 14 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,400 And according to that, Austin is not really your holiday destination. 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:00,400 Right. 16 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,400 It doesn't have the same draw that maybe Las Vegas would or something like that. 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,000 That's correct. 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,000 Absolutely. 19 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,000 So, the people who have come here have genuinely found value in a way where they can go back 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,000 and justify it to their own corporations. 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:23,600 So, against that context today, we have the highest number of attendees is close to, I think, between 540 or 550. 22 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:24,600 Right. 23 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:31,600 And to me, that's the proof point of the value we provide and the continued loyalty of our customers. 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,200 What's the future of the user group conference? 25 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:40,200 Like, is it going to be merged into RISDUC or RSDC, I should say, or how is it going to show up next year? 26 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:48,200 No, what we decided to do is we co-locate these conferences, because there is a very strong focus on the systems 27 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,000 market which RISDUC traditionally has. 28 00:01:51,000 --> 00:02:03,800 We want to maintain that and by co-locating the two user conference, we provide an opportunity for the customer base of RISDUC to actually gain access to the value of the larger RISDEC. 29 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:04,400 Right, right. 30 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:15,600 So, we would be able to maintain the focus and be able to then build on that to show in a very concrete way what the value IBM's acquisition brings to the technology base. 31 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:16,200 Right, right. 32 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,400 To sort of have those existing communities sort of crossbreed and mingle with each other as a word. 33 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,500 Exactly right, in a very concrete way. 34 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:32,600 So, yesterday, you gave part of the keynote, if I recall, and a lot of, as you would expect, from a company that's been acquired by another company, 35 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:40,600 or merged with, or however you want to characterize it, a lot of the discussion was about the sort of mingling and co-evolution of those two companies. 36 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:48,600 And I'm curious if, you know, not that I want to make you launch into the whole keynote, but I'm curious, you know, 37 00:02:48,600 --> 00:03:01,600 since last time we talked, I guess, at RSDC '08, back in the sort of late summer, you know, like, what's been sort of the co-evolution and the mixing together of the rational and the telelogic products together? 38 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,600 That's pretty much the background of my keynote. 39 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,600 The keynote was focused on two things. 40 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:09,600 Right. 41 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:22,600 One, to effectively and convincingly communicate to the audience that the consistency and the momentum of the plans and the messages and the strategies we've laid out will continue post-acquisition. 42 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:27,600 It kind of addresses the unknown question of, well, what will happen post-acquisition. 43 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:28,600 Right, right. 44 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,600 So I wanted to make sure that we delivered that convincingly. 45 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:38,600 And the way we did that was to actually lay out in fair amount of detail the joint product roadmap going forward. 46 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:51,600 And within that structure, I shared with them as to how this joint product roadmap evolved and give them anecdotal evidence of the cultural compatibility and the common view which evolved. 47 00:03:51,600 --> 00:04:01,600 And then I added to that areas where we could bring more value in a very short timeframe due to the fact of the acquisition. 48 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:08,600 So it was not only reassured but also built on that reassurance to introduce to them the excitement of IBM. 49 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:09,600 What does it mean? 50 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,600 What does it concretely bring to you? 51 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,600 Which was not available under telelogic. 52 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:24,600 The message seems to have been extremely well received from the feedback I've had with the customers because we went out for a barbecue late evening. 53 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,600 So I talked to a number of different customers. 54 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,600 And it was consistently positive. 55 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:39,600 When we were talking right before starting to film here, you were saying how there are people who sort of like based large parts of their careers on telelogic software. 56 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:48,600 And I was thinking analogously, if Adobe suddenly phased out Photoshop, there would be a lot of concern, right? 57 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:49,600 That's right. 58 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:59,600 And for those people who don't, I always find that concept fascinating about sort of being very dependent in a positive way on your tools. 59 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:07,600 And I wonder, looking in the telelogic brand, what are some of those tools that people are like they need it for their career to do their job? 60 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,600 Like what are they depending on in the portfolio? 61 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:17,600 Exactly as you picked up, you know, the loyalty of the customers is driven by very stark personal interests. 62 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:18,600 Right. 63 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,600 People have literally bet their career when they chose one product over the other. 64 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:29,600 And therefore, there is a natural tendency to say, given the uncertainty, tell me very precisely what you're going to do. 65 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:30,600 Right. 66 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,600 So we told them precisely what we will do. 67 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:41,600 And not only that, that's why for the first time in my keynote, I actually had two demos as a part of the keynote. 68 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:42,600 Right, right. 69 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:50,600 So one was telelogic team web top, which is a proof point of what we said in Atlanta we will do. 70 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:57,600 And within a year, here was the product, proving beyond a value of doubt that the momentum will continue. 71 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,600 So the consistency and the continuity is very important value to our customer. 72 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:16,600 Then the second demo I showed was rational requirement composer, which is the proof point of, okay, now that we understand that, you know, do no harm you've established, but what about do more good? 73 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:26,600 So the rational requirement composer was a proof point of saying here's the value, which we bring in very concrete way, here and now, as a result of the acquisition. 74 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,600 So it kind of, that's the structure of the message. 75 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:35,600 And judging from the feedback so far, people really understood it in that context. 76 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:41,600 But diving down into those two things a little bit, the web top and the, I don't know, Rick, I don't know what- 77 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:42,600 Rational requirement composer. 78 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,600 Right, right, it's like RRC, right? 79 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:46,600 RRC, that's right. 80 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:47,600 And, uh, I- 81 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,600 Think about composer, the S-O-N. 82 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:50,600 Right, right, right. 83 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:51,600 Composer. 84 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,600 There you go. 85 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,600 And so, I mean, what, what did the demo show? 86 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,600 I mean, what did those tools do, I guess, is the real question. 87 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:04,600 The logic team web top is a proof point of how we will leverage the jazz integration architecture. 88 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:05,600 Oh, okay, right. 89 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:12,600 Which essentially is a flexible architecture based on the internet standards using RESTful 90 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:19,600 APIs, which enables you to draw relevant data or information from different tools and present 91 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,600 it in a composite manner where the data turns into insight. 92 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:24,600 Right. 93 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,600 So, for example, you may be able to draw use cases from a modeling tool. 94 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:38,600 You'll be able to draw the data about the tasks which are assigned to different people in the context of that architecture or use case. 95 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,600 And you'll also be able to draw, for instance, data from requirements. 96 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:52,600 So, now you can have a composite view of here's my requirements, here is who's working on it, and this is the artifact of evolution of that design. 97 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:58,600 That seems to sort of be one manifestation of one of the general jazz principles, if you will. 98 00:07:58,600 --> 00:07:59,600 Absolutely. 99 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:06,600 Of sort of pulling together from a bunch of disparate information sources into, as you were saying, a composite or a view that's tailored towards whatever sort of, 100 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:13,600 not necessarily a person, but the task at hand that you're worrying about, instead of having to visit all those different consoles, if you will. 101 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:14,600 Exactly. 102 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,600 That's one of the driving principle in context collaboration. 103 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:26,600 And the beauty of this is that it solves a very long-standing problem of the data which is generated by the tools is owned by the tools. 104 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:27,600 Right. 105 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:28,600 Right. 106 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:35,600 So, in order to have access to that data, in order to be able to collaborate on that data, traditionally you'll need multiple tools. 107 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,600 And that itself is its own challenges, right? 108 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,600 The cost, the training, the knowledge. 109 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:50,600 What Team WebTalk does, building on the jazz integration architecture, liberates data from these tools while they are still owned by them, but enables you to collaborate. 110 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,600 So, it makes data a first-class citizen of collaboration. 111 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:54,600 Right, right. 112 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:55,600 That's powerful. 113 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:06,600 A lot of the mash-up composite sort of stuff, it seems to get down to giving the rest of the world the sort of magic that you have in Excel, where you sort of, like you're saying, the data is the primary citizen. 114 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:07,600 That's correct. 115 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:14,600 And everything is built around getting what you want out of the data, not sort of having the application guide you through what you should want to do. 116 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:26,600 And it ties into our overall message that in this difficult economic climate, it is our duty to make sure that we provide solutions that give you increasing return from your investments. 117 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:27,600 Right, right. 118 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:39,600 So, you've already bought the tools, you've already put in many years of effort to generate intellectual capital, and now you can get increased return by being able to pull the right data in the right context and present it to the right person. 119 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:52,600 Going off that sort of thread that runs through the discussion that you had, these troubling economic times, as people like to say, how does sort of the rational requirements composer sort of fit on that same thing? 120 00:09:52,600 --> 00:10:06,600 The rational requirements composer actually extends the user base or the stakeholders who can contribute to the requirements, because so far in requirements management tools, you had to have an engineering background. 121 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:12,600 They were very formal tools to be able to interact or contribute or review. 122 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:24,600 With the requirement composer, you can now bring in the wider community of business analysts, line of business users, business architects, who can write the requirements in their own natural way. 123 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:37,600 So, the requirement composer offers a variety of techniques and tools to be able to explain in a capturable way the needs or the requirements of the customer. 124 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:38,600 Ah, right. 125 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,600 For instance, it has a storyboard capability. 126 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,600 You can actually sketch in storyboard. 127 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:43,600 Right. 128 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,600 It can give you a UI design. 129 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,600 You can say, look, one of the examples we showed was here is a CD company. 130 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:50,600 Right. 131 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:56,600 And one of the stakeholders actually sketched out what the CD cover should look like. 132 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,600 And the other sketched out what the web page should look like. 133 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,600 So, now you can look at the consistency and all these requirements. 134 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:03,600 Right. 135 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,600 You can then tie back to if you're developing a website. 136 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,600 I guess to use an old dichotomy from the 90s, it's sort of like the difference between the church and the bazaar, right? 137 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:11,600 Yes. 138 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,600 And it's sort of like a very, or ivory tower to use another favorite metaphor. 139 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,600 Instead of having the specialized role that's in charge of perfectly drawing out what the CD cover looks like. 140 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:21,600 That's correct. 141 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,600 You take it to the masses, if you will, the bazaar, and you allow them to have a role in expressing what they want. 142 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:33,600 Even if they're not trained and specialized and therefore expensive enough to perfectly tell you what they want. 143 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:34,600 That's correct. 144 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:42,600 So, you not only capture that intellectual property, you're able to seamlessly integrate it with the back end of formal requirements leading into development. 145 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:48,600 Now, you have got development brought up front into the bazaar or the community of developers. 146 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:49,600 Right. 147 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,600 So, you bring your requirements closer to the reality of the marketplace. 148 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:54,600 Yeah, yeah. 149 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:59,600 And, of course, associated as things change quickly, you're able to reflect that change very, very rapidly all the way. 150 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:08,600 And, of course, the end result is you're able to produce the product which matches the needs of the requirement in a very, very close way. 151 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:23,600 I'm also curious, you know, how that division between the technologists and the businessists, I guess, to make up a word, has long been sort of like the bane of sort of using technology for business. 152 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:35,600 And it seems like, in addition to having tools that help out, there's some sort of more sort of cultural changes that have been happening that sort of, you know, make it possible for those two sides to talk with each other. 153 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:42,600 And I wonder, in the, you know, the worldwide role that you have, as it were, like, what those changes have been that you've been seeing? 154 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:47,600 I mean, how have people's minds been changing such that it's possible to give them a tool? 155 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,600 It's largely driven by the fact that, you know, no more can you have technology for technology's sake. 156 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,600 Right. 157 00:12:53,600 --> 00:13:03,600 It's very necessary that you try, you tie the technology investments very closely with the business objectives you want to drive. 158 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:12,600 So there is no difference now possible to have a gap between the business side and the technology side. 159 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,600 It's sort of that inefficiency has been driven out by necessity, it seems like. 160 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:17,600 That's the economic necessity. 161 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:18,600 Right. 162 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:19,600 And then the other vector is technology. 163 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:25,600 I mean, today, the technology has become so easy to use that it is possible for non-engineers… 164 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:26,600 To understand it. 165 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:35,600 …to perform and, you know, and as the younger generations come on, they are already very, very, very computer savvy. 166 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,600 So for them, you know, to generate match-ups, you know, people who've been on the Facebook. 167 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:42,600 Right. 168 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:49,600 So, increasingly, the vector of technology as an enablement and the economic necessity of driving towards that, I think will accelerate this. 169 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:58,600 So, I mean, we sort of like laid out a lot of sort of high-level ways things are going and sort of aligning business and software and things like that. 170 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:11,600 But getting down to the actual tools that Rational has and TeleLogic has, like how are the, what's sort of like the joint roadmap between those two things to bring those tools together to sort of actualize that happy world we were just saying? 171 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,600 That was essentially the meat of the keynote. 172 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:16,600 Right. 173 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:34,600 Where I wanted to make sure that we went down into specifics at a sufficiently high level of abstraction, but specific enough so that there was a very clear information as to what will happen to each segment or family of tools. 174 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:46,600 So we started sharing with our users and our customers the strategic direction which drove the overall joint product roadmap evolution. 175 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:55,600 And therefore, we talked about how we will focus on developing family of products specializing in their own domain. 176 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:56,600 Right. 177 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:57,600 Despite having similar capabilities. 178 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:09,600 And it's important because, you know, when you go to an audience such as one of the user group, both Rational and TeleLogic had products which had similar capabilities. 179 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:10,600 Right. 180 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:19,600 So if you go and say, look, we're going to continue both products, you need to show them the business logic why this will be so going on in future. 181 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:25,600 And that's why we started sharing with them the reality of how we arrived at this. 182 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,600 So we looked at both the products and said, what do they actually do? 183 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,600 And can we live with only one product? 184 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:33,600 Right. 185 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,600 Because that makes sense, right? 186 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:35,600 That's why people achieve it. 187 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:42,600 And what we realized that while there were similar capabilities, their core market was different. 188 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:55,600 And hence what we decided to do as a result of this insight is to focus strategically our resources on the core market, the anchor markets and defocus from the areas of overlap. 189 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:56,600 Right, right. 190 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:04,600 So for example, if you look at requirements, we have doors on one side and we had requisite pro on the other. 191 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:16,600 Now doors typically is focused on those projects which are large, complex, require multiple levels of traceability, have a high level of need for formality. 192 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,600 Typically in a regulatory or compliant rich environment. 193 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:31,600 Whereas RecPros core market is traditionally a more classical IT project where there is less need for rigor. 194 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:32,600 Right. 195 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:38,600 So there is more reliance on writing the requirements in a lot of office kind of tools. 196 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,600 You know, Word and PowerPoint and so on and so forth. 197 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:46,600 Where the formality as you see is not the driving force. 198 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,600 Where the traceability doesn't have to be at that market level of decomposition. 199 00:16:51,600 --> 00:17:03,600 So we decided therefore to say, okay, we are going to focus on our resources on driving those into more systems and complex IT market domains. 200 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:10,600 And we will focus and drive RecPro on the more classical IT kind of project. 201 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:21,600 And then we will take advantage of the common platform of Jazz so that we are able to save the resources which otherwise would be spent in duplication of back end. 202 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:22,600 Right, that makes sense. 203 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,600 So that is a classic example of reuse. 204 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:33,600 Everybody talks about reuse but I want you to communicate very clearly what do we mean by reuse and how we will take advantage of it. 205 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:46,600 So that way we will be able to meet the economic necessity of maintaining two products which grow profitably and will continue to evolve in meeting the needs of very specified market audiences. 206 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,600 And are there other things on the roadmap that are going along that line or is that the one that has been fleshed out the most at the moment? 207 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:57,600 No, no, that was just an illustration of one example I wanted to give you concrete and spare you the whole, you know. 208 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:58,600 Sure. 209 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,600 So there were multiple examples and the other area was modeling. 210 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:01,600 Right. 211 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:10,600 Where we will bring conversions of different modeling products leveraging a common modeling platform based on Eclipse and common components from Jazz. 212 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:11,600 Right. 213 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,600 So that's another area we are going to do that. 214 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,600 The third area is in configuration and change management. 215 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:17,600 Right. 216 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:25,600 I'm curious about the change management one in specific because that's, in the IT management world that's something that's, you know, an interesting topic nowadays is doing change management stuff. 217 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:35,600 And I'm curious in the more rational world, the sort of software development side of the house, like what are the, what are those two areas in change management that the Telelogic brand and the traditional? 218 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:36,600 Right. 219 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:42,600 So change was an interesting area where we could show the power of conversions utilizing the Jazz platform. 220 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:43,600 Right. 221 00:18:43,600 --> 00:19:06,600 So when the two teams got together, I think within, within an hour or so, they quickly worked out that we would leverage going forward a common core of change built on the Jazz platform and then be able to provide a front end to save the investment in customization on both the Telelogic change. 222 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:07,600 Right. 223 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,600 As well as ClearQuest. 224 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:09,600 Right. 225 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,600 Okay. 226 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,600 So that's an example of how the two come together and continue. 227 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:29,600 And there's, there's a constant theme with all this of, of using Jazz as sort of the platform underneath a lot of, a lot of things, which is, which has been interesting to see it evolve from a, more of an IDE, like developer centric thing to being like a generalized platform for all of the stuff that Rational does. 228 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:30,600 Right. 229 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:36,600 And, and that's why we wanted to introduce the concept of Jazz and the promise and the excitement in a very concrete way. 230 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:37,600 Right. 231 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:44,600 Because this audience is, as we talked about, very emotionally connected and they've bet their careers. 232 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:51,600 So to give them a view of a distant future, which is a little bit airy fairy does not appeal to them. 233 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,600 So I tend to talk to them in very concrete terms and provide a proof point. 234 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,600 And that's the way our relationship has evolved. 235 00:19:58,600 --> 00:19:59,600 Well, great. 236 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:00,600 Well, thanks for taking this time to talk for this. 237 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,600 Thank you very much. 238 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:02,600 Appreciate it. 239 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:03,600 Thank you.