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EclipseCon 2008 in a very spartan echoey room, but it's quite nicely lit, I like it.

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And would you like to introduce yourself?

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My name is Eric Gamma, I work for I Am Rational.

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Right now my focus is the jazz project and I'm the jazz lead.

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And we just survived our jazz live session last night.

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That's right, you guys had the big screen TVs hooked up and a bunch of demos and beer.

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It was the perfect session.

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What we did is we had our development team come sit around the table and we call it jazz live

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because people can come in, mingle, have a sip, but they don't have a dialogue, right?

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So we have in-depth conversations where answers could be given by demoing stuff, not just talking.

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And in the end they had to kick us out of the room at 10:30.

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I was kind of interested when I walked in there last night that there was a whole lot of...

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I tend to think of jazz as sort of one thing, but you guys had a whole bunch of different tables set up for demoing different aspects.

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So I mean, at this point, what are the sort of different parts of jazz, if you will?

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You have built the platform in a modular way.

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So what you will see now as the jazz platform models, you build products on top of that and we kind of package the technology of jazz platform into products.

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And what you will see, for instance, in the first product, which is called Rational Team Concert, which will ship in June.

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You will see kind of, in addition to the foundation, the platform infrastructure, which gives teams, process, know-how and base collaboration infrastructure, RSS feeds.

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You see kind of three main pillars, which is an SCM system, work-hacking, bug-tracking system, task-tracking system and the build system.

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Right.

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We pick these three components because they really help to show our vision, integrated tools, which put the tasks in the center and not the tools.

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Right.

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So you can do a task without falling off the cliff all the time from one tool to the other one.

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Right.

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You have to take notes on a sheet of paper.

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There's sort of some complete task lifecycle management, if you will, that can go through all of those different things.

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Yes. And the flows are really key, right?

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You get the flows and you can collaborate effectively, thanks that you have a seamless tool that knows about artifacts, can help with the links and you have the context.

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You guys are sometime soon near to having a release of stuff.

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So we've all been waiting.

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Well, we are shipping since a while, right?

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Right.

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It's an evolution, right?

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So we are shipping a beta since last June.

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And I guess when we talked last time, we were close to the beta too.

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Right.

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But there is one big change.

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And now since January, we open up the jazz.net website for everybody, so everybody can try it out.

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That's it.

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So since January, when you opened jazz.net up, what kind of, because you have the open commercial development process, right?

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Okay.

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And what kind of inputs and things have you been getting for people?

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How has that collaboration been working out with the general populace, if you will?

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So, yeah, we have seen the ramp up in registration as we hope and expected.

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And people are trying to know the number of questions increased.

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And also, one of my benchmarks is always know whether you have a community that is kind of on the past doing self-support,

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but the community can answer questions themselves.

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Right.

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And we have seen some of that, right?

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Someone asks, how do I do that?

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And someone out of the development team gives them the answer.

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Actually, that's how we do it.

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So I think we have seen this effect.

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It's a nice self-supporting community effect.

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That's definitely what we're seeing.

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And we see, of course, you know, enhancing requests.

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We see all the kind of interesting testing, you know, with our LDAP server.

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This thing doesn't work.

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So what is wrong?

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So we get some of the clips, right?

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For me, it's kind of like the clips.

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We had this nice contribution from the community.

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Not always code-based.

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But I know they test things out in different configurations.

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They give us feedback on, like how it's on-the-fly, competitive analysis, right?

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This product allows you to do that, how you do that.

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And we see the interaction coming on.

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So we have the forum.

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We have all the development wiki open.

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Our milestone builds are available.

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The blocks, of course.

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The plans.

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And our dashboards.

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That's a new component, which we didn't have in October, I guess.

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Oh, right.

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And is that for more of sort of a management or team level thing?

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No, it's a transparency thing, right?

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You can have your own dashboard.

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So I think as a developer, I also have my own dashboard.

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So I want to see the results of five queries without having to kind of run them.

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I see the results now with different lists.

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I see the RSS feeds.

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I see news, event feeds.

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And I also see now the window in the repository, reports, trending, things like that.

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That's right.

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I can see that at a glance.

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So it helps as a developer.

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But of course now when I'm a team leader, we have dashboards for individuals, for teams,

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and for the project.

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Right.

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So when you come to the team, know the team dashboards more for the team.

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They can see what our bug trends have, what's our burn down.

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Yeah.

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And at the level of the project.

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So what I do, since I'm kind of leading it, I use the dashboard and you'll see some comparison.

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For instance, like we have lots of bugs from testers.

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I want to see which component they are.

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So I can create a dashboard.

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Yeah.

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That's an interesting thing I've seen a lot recently, is people being okay with a bunch

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of numbers and statistics about development.

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Like, you know, I remember just, it wasn't that long ago where it was kind of, I don't

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know, there seemed to be a dim view of reporting on yourself.

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But I talk to lots of people now who are excited about it.

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Yeah.

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But what we try to do is we try to not report individuals.

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I think what's okay, what we care about is progress as a team together, right?

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Yeah.

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Because that's your succeed.

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So we don't really report how many bugs.

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I've even talked to people like Sixth Sense Analytics.

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I don't know if you've checked them out, but they have like a little agent that sort

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of monitors each individual.

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Watches.

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I think I saw that.

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And it seems a little creepy and big brother-y at first, but then again, if you're one of

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these sort of, I don't know, sort of continuous improvement sort of person, it's kind of interesting

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to think that you could actually monitor yourself.

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I mean, you don't want your boss like firing you because you've spent the whole day web surfing

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or something.

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No, exactly.

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And we don't do that, right?

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Right, right.

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Maybe if you burn down off the team, I don't know what's the progress in the middle.

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Do you have really burned down, have the work or not?

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And I think this is the whole theme of jazz.

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I mean, I mentioned integration as well, and transparency is the other big one.

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Yeah.

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Because transparency enables you to do, you know, reflect and act.

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Right?

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If you don't know what you want to be retrospective, you can look at, okay, what did you do?

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Oh yeah, we had this long bug, which took us really long to fix because, you know, the

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cross-team dependency didn't come in.

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I think transparency helps you to learn from that and also helps you with difficult problems

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globally through the development, cross-team dependencies, right?

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All these challenges we have there.

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So, I mean, this topic of remote working always comes up.

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And it came up in a conversation I was having on the Registered Open Season podcast with a

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guy from Dave Rosenberg from Mule Source and Matt Essay from El Fresco.

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And, you know, they're CEO-level people and they were curious about how, you know, balancing

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managing as a small company, as a startup, kind of remote working versus people leading

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in one office.

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And a lot of the work that you've been doing is based on kind of solving that problem.

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I guess the starting point is always, you know, a project starts small.

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Right.

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There's a small amount of people and also, you know, with jazz, you might want to have this

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growth path, right?

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You don't seem to have a system which is only good if you have a low distribution team,

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whatever, right?

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Teams of teams.

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But we also have to keep in mind, you start slow, you start in a small group and they will

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work on initial scenarios, kind of, and then break up the components.

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You have to scroll with them, right?

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And I think that's what you want to support, that you can grow up.

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And I think what's really important to get something started, you need face to face.

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Yeah.

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Like the stick is on the wall, all this, this collaboration exercise you can do, you know,

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what's the same learning, whatever.

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I think it needs to be face to face.

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Right.

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Once you have initial vision and understand, okay, that's a potential set of components we

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can do.

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And then, okay, yeah, this site might want to work on that.

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I think then you can start to split.

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Right.

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Right.

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You need to establish that shared goal.

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The shared goal, right?

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And also, kind of, people who will then move to the site have to put on, they have to

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carry on, they have to meet the carrier, right?

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Right.

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The vision to the different sites.

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They've got to carry the virus of success or whatever, right?

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They need to infect it, exactly, yeah.

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Right.

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And then they talk to their teams, right?

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And then how, that's how it starts.

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And what's important is that right from the beginning you have good collaboration infrastructure,

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right?

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That you have builds and you can, as soon as possible, start iterating, right?

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As soon as you start iterating, you're breathing.

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Yeah.

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Okay, so that's kind of the pattern we have.

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I think there's no panacea when it comes to this build development.

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I think it's really important if you have this build site, you have good carrier of the information.

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I mean, you have to have a network where information flows well from the center to the leaves, right?

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Yeah.

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And, of course, you make mistakes on that.

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So, some collaboration events we do now.

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We have, you know, all the hub, the component leads that work on different sites.

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And we have bi-weekly calls per week.

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Bi-weekly per week.

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So, we have two calls per week.

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And what we learned over there, we talk about issues, what's blocking us.

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Uh-huh.

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So, it's a little stand-up, right?

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But a stand-up meeting on the phone, which is not every day.

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And what we learned, for instance, was not good because what we talked about, that didn't flow out to the team.

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Yeah, it sort of stops at that person.

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So, that's why I know that, of course, you do meeting notes, you have a scribe, and then, of course, there's part, that's nice in jazz, right?

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You have the plans, and you just attach the meeting notes to the plans, which keeps them up-to-date, right?

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The meeting notes are combined with the iteration plans.

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Yeah.

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You know where to go, and they will time out if they get dated, but that's...

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Well, great.

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Well, that was all pretty exciting stuff.

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So, I mean, since we talked about jazz, I mean, you mentioned there's jazz.net out there, but, I mean, what's the process for people getting a hold of it?

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The process is very simple, right?

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You go to www.jazz.net, register.

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We would like to know who you are, in case you send us love letters, right?

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You know where you're coming from.

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I mean, love letters of pocket reports.

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And you download, it's very easy to install.

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We've made it quite easy to install.

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There are sample projects.

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So, one of my goals now, we should be able to just install server and client with the end.

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In less than 10 minutes.

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Right.

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Sample projects.

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You can be up and running and start to communicate with the developer team and the user to ask questions.

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There is one interesting question.

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So, I mean, if you're going to have the rational products out there.

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And if I went down and downloaded jazz and I started using it, how does that go on?

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Okay.

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That's where, of course, since we, as developers know, we have kind of...

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The brand vision is jazz.

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Now, of course, some products have different names.

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Right, right.

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That's why I'm, of course, I know I'm sloppy, not all is clear.

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Sure.

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But what you download now is actually the first version of the product that builds on jazz,

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which is rational.

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Okay.

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And you would be downloading a beta.

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So, if you wanted the full release version...

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Exactly.

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Does the beta expire or something?

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Or...

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That's the whole thing we are, I guess.

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The more we know about what the product conditions are.

241
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,000
Okay.

242
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,000
But I don't have them...

243
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:03,000
So, at the moment, I mean, just to be clear, there's not like a guarantee that you could use this beta forever or something.

244
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,000
Forever.

245
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,000
Do you have to actually upgrade this?

246
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,000
Well, I don't mean...

247
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,000
That really depends on how...

248
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,000
Yeah.

249
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,000
The license, no...

250
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,000
What we said, it's...

251
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,000
What's clear is it's free for open source projects.

252
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,000
Right.

253
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,000
Okay.

254
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,000
Qualified open source that we have to show some criteria.

255
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,000
And for academic use.

256
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,000
Okay.

257
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,000
It's free.

258
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,000
So, if you're in those two camps, you can pretty much just use it perpetually at the moment.

259
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,000
And we have already a university that use it and give us interesting feedback.

260
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Right.

261
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,000
And, yeah, right now it's kind of the milestone M5A there.

262
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,000
It shows that we even make milestones able to do public.

263
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,000
Right.

264
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,000
Because I thought, well, between the last bit and the last milestone, there was just enough

265
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000
good stuff that we want to share with the community.

266
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,000
Well, that sounds great.

267
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,000
Well, thanks for taking all this time to give us the sort of quarterly jazz update.

268
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,000
Oh, yeah.

269
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,000
Okay.

270
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,000
I hope I can dump too much.

271
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,000
No, no.

272
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,000
It was great.

273
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,000
Okay.

274
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,000
Enjoy the rest of the clips.

275
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:54,000
My best.

276
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,000
Thanks.