1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 So here we are at Microsoft TechEd for IT professionals, I think. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,000 It's the second part of TechEd here in Orlando, Florida. 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,000 And I'm an IT guy for sure. 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Absolutely. 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 One can tell. 6 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,000 Let's talk about servers. 7 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,000 So speaking of you being an IT guy, why don't you introduce yourself? 8 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,000 I'm Brian Goldfarb and I work in Microsoft's developer division. 9 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,000 And we look after sort of our .NET platform business. 10 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,000 So .NET, ASP.NET, Silverlight, and the related aspects of technologies in that space. 11 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,000 And of course we have James Governor here, which you may remember from previous episodes, of course. 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,000 So the first thing I wanted to ask, so Silverlight 2 is coming out sometime soon. 13 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,000 And we were just talking about it before we were starting to record, 14 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:45,000 that there's been sort of like a very sort of consumer JavaScript focus, JavaScripty as it were. 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,000 JavaScripty, yeah. 16 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,000 Sort of focus on the first release. 17 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,000 But what are you guys doing with the second release? 18 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,000 We shipped the second beta of Silverlight 2 just the other day. 19 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000 And it's a big leap forward compared to the original version that we shipped, 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,000 which was very focused on consumer media scenarios. 21 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Right. 22 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:05,000 With Silverlight 2, though, we're making a big leap into much more line-of-business scenarios, 23 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,000 much more deeper application scenarios, or true RIAs, if you will, 24 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,000 both enterprise RIA and consumer RIA. 25 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,000 Right, right. 26 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,000 And we do that in a number of different ways, right? 27 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,000 We do that by bringing .NET, the full power of .NET platform, 28 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,000 managed code, and dynamic languages to Silverlight. 29 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,000 So much, you know, better coding model, much higher quality focus, 30 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,000 with a lot of history, right? 31 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,000 The ability to do intelligent data binding, 32 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,000 to have great communication stacks, data stacks, 33 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,000 other integration makes it much more application-friendly. 34 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,000 But also invested in controls. 35 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,000 So the first version of Silverlight didn't come with any pre-built controls, 36 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,000 whereas this version will have over 100 by the time when they're shipping. 37 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,000 And by controls, you mean sort of a GUI toolkit, like a scroll bar? 38 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,000 Yeah, scroll bars, radio buttons, text boxes. 39 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,000 But having a multi-line, having a multi-line text box control, 40 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,000 that supports Logan Globe, all built in, is kind of nice. 41 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,000 Or the combo box. 42 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,000 Combo box, sliders. 43 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,000 Right. 44 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Imagine reporting, charting. 45 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,000 Sure. 46 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,000 It's limitless. 47 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,000 It's just a limitation of our imagination. 48 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,000 We'll have all those controls baked in. 49 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,000 So really building a forms baseline of business apps 50 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,000 is going to get a lot better through sort of applications. 51 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,000 So that's been the big sort of dramatic change. 52 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,000 We've also improved our media and other consumer-focused things. 53 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Sure. 54 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,000 You know, Deep Zoom. 55 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:22,000 It's gotten super high quality improvements in the video stack. 56 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,000 Can you talk to the customer reference that was here yesterday, 57 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,000 or was that just for the analysts? 58 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,000 No, no. 59 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,000 I can absolutely talk to it. 60 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,000 You mean Hard Rock? 61 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,000 Yeah, we saw a pretty cool demo. 62 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,000 Hard Rock Cafe came in. 63 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Hard Rock International. 64 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,000 Hard Rock International. 65 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,000 Yes. 66 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,000 Let's get the branding correct. 67 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,000 Basically putting all of their memorabilia in an online archive, 68 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,000 so that you can basically kind of go through and go into real depth about. 69 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,000 I mean, they had sort of, you know, letters that Madonna had written. 70 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:55,000 They had a first-class plane ticket that Jimi Hendrix took to London, 71 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,000 and just this sort of interesting stuff. 72 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,000 We're actually at an interesting inflection point around the way archiving 73 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,000 and navigation works, and Hard Rock kind of illustrated that really well. 74 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,000 I saw another cool demo actually at Jabba One where son, Neil Young, 75 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:14,000 has put his entire archive onto Blu-Ray, and it'll be updated actually online as well. 76 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,000 But the richness of it, you could really see that this is substantive and different. 77 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,000 You know, in getting people access to their giant collection of memorabilia, 78 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,000 you know, over 70,000 items in stores all across the world. 79 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,000 And one of their big business challenges was how do you make this real? 80 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,000 How do you make it tactile? 81 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,000 How do you make it feel like you're there without actually being there, 82 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,000 and protect some of these things? 83 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,000 And so by using Silverlight and Deep Zoom, which is a technology, 84 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,000 Silverlight that gives you access to super high-resolution imagery. 85 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,000 You know, we're talking petabytes of imagery. 86 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,000 See, that doesn't really mean anything. 87 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Because when you say super, that's no good. 88 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,000 You need-- 89 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,000 Barry? 90 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,000 Well, I don't know. 91 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,000 You need like Ultra? 92 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,000 Ultra? 93 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Peta? 94 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,000 Mega Zoom. 95 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,000 Mega Zoom. 96 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,000 Let's just say like a four gigabyte image. 97 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,000 How's that? 98 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,000 We'll be very specific. 99 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,000 And making that work on any connection super smoothly with an ICY model of smooth scrolling 100 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,000 and zooming. 101 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000 And great access to metadata and all kinds of pieces sort of in real time. 102 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,000 One thing actually about the linking, because this was interesting. 103 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,000 Yesterday it was said that you could just link to these things. 104 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,000 It does do support deep linking. 105 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:17,000 So even like to a Zoom that I've gone in specific, that is linked? 106 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,000 That's correct. 107 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,000 Mmm. 108 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,000 So as you're Zooming, it's updating sort of a deep linking model and SEO model. 109 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:28,000 So you can copy a URL, send it to somebody and say, "Here's the exact pixel I was looking at." 110 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,000 At any given moment. 111 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,000 If you look at things done with the Library of Congress and the British Library, 112 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:38,000 we've done a lot of technology in the same vein of bringing archives online. 113 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,000 Using our full .NET Framework and Windows Presentation Foundation. 114 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,000 So there's been other efforts on this. 115 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:49,000 I know that LOC and others are actively exploring Silverlight and what it brings to the market. 116 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:58,000 You know, and having HardRock out there and kind of giving designers and business folks the ability to see this for the first time and go, "Whoa, that's cool." 117 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,000 Like the HardRock experience, they have all these pin collectors. 118 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:10,000 They made little custom made pins who saw this memorabilia collection and now they've asked to go and create a whole dynamic exchange for these millions of custom made pins. 119 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:16,000 So a business they didn't even think about that's emerging from the creativity and possibility that people saw. 120 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:21,000 So do you guys have any thinking or early customers who have been applying that kind of stuff to more business or enterprise concerns? 121 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,000 Whether it's like, you know, here's 10,000 of like legal discovery documents or something. 122 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,000 We've been talking about it. 123 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,000 And things like that. 124 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,000 Or do you think that that scenario even really exists in the business world? 125 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,000 It's hard to say. 126 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,000 You know, it's really hard to say if that scenario exists or not. 127 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Do you need to wire up super high resolution, very high resolution, incredibly high resolution. 128 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,000 The funny thing that contains like the whole red monk high resolution. 129 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,000 The whole real life thing is we'll get to the stage, "Oh, it's a filing cabinet." 130 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,000 Exactly. 131 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,000 Didn't we already have that? 132 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,000 Yeah, exactly. 133 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,000 I don't know. 134 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,000 You could have it on a... 135 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,000 With metadata and collections. 136 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:59,000 I mean, you could actually sort their filing cabinet automatically instead of having to do that over the course of many hours. 137 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,000 It's hard to say. 138 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,000 There is a lot of document management and imaging needs in the enterprise. 139 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,000 It's certainly worth exploring. 140 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,000 And that is a pretty tough thing to get into, I imagine. 141 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,000 I imagine that people who control the gates of getting into that market are pretty controlling of it. 142 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,000 It's not my highest priority. 143 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,000 Right, right. 144 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,000 Of course, the whole question about, you know, managing your marketing and brand assets. 145 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,000 Sure. 146 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,000 That stuff is really hard to manage. 147 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,000 So, we need new metaphors for... 148 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,000 There's a thing called the Interactive Media Manager. 149 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,000 It's a combination of SharePoint and Silverlight. 150 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:37,000 It's focused on the media industry and managing broad sets of media assets across time and space in many ways. 151 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,000 And so, that's, I guess, one step in that direction. 152 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,000 Right, right, right. 153 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,000 And that was sort of built as a vertical solution by Microsoft for a comm sector customers. 154 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Right. 155 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:59,000 I imagine we'll start to see partners in the ecosystem building out sort of targeted solutions that combine CMS and document management and, you know, ERP and, you know, who knows. 156 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,000 And using Silverlight as glue on the front end. 157 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,000 That's really the way to think about it, right. 158 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:09,000 This is an amazing presentation tier that provides you rich access to some sort of complex back-end systems from an enterprise perspective. 159 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,000 It does that easily and does that in an open and interoperable way. 160 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,000 What about the scripting languages? 161 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:22,000 I mean, I was actually kind of surprised that you're supporting some of the scripting languages that, you know, people don't necessarily associate it as being Microsoft. 162 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,000 Sure. 163 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,000 Well, you know, because we don't, we don't, we didn't build everything. 164 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,000 We just like to support things. 165 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:37,000 I mean, the reality is we have a technology called the DLR, the Dynamic Language Runtime, which is effectively a way to break down the common glue that defines dynamicism in language. 166 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,000 Well, we built two reference languages on top of that. 167 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:47,000 We built Iron Python, which is a Python implementation, very 100% compatible with Python as it exists today, just running on top of .NET. 168 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,000 And we're building out Ruby as an open source project called IronRuby. 169 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,000 And that will be very highly compatible with Ruby. 170 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,000 You can run Ruby on Rails now on top of it, just to give an example of the compatibility. 171 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,000 And it's potentially possible to build other languages too. 172 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Hopefully those will do that. 173 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:09,000 Silverlight does, and what makes this really interesting is traditionally Python and Ruby are server-side development languages. 174 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:14,000 I write on the server, it co-jends something out, HTML, whatever, and it just works. 175 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,000 We're bringing that power to the client. 176 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,000 So you can throw a JavaScript out, which is going to make every Ruby developer really, really happy. 177 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,000 And they can write Ruby code in the browser. 178 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,000 I don't think it'll necessarily make every Ruby developer really happy. 179 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,000 I think it will. 180 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,000 A lot of them, 80% of them. 181 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:36,000 In the beta, my understanding is that most people who write Ruby and Python don't want to write JavaScript in the browser. 182 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,000 They'd much rather use the language of their choice there. 183 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:43,000 And that's one of the things we're trying to do, is bring language choice from the server to the client. 184 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,000 Sure. 185 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,000 And that's the fundamental key. 186 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Do you guys have a public date for Silverlight 2, or is it just... 187 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,000 So beta 2 is out right now. 188 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,000 Sure. 189 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,000 We'll ship the final version before the end of the year. 190 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,000 Right. 191 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,000 That is the public date. 192 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Indeed. 193 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,000 So we're... 194 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,000 Before January '09. 195 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,000 That's right. 196 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,000 Before then. 197 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,000 And so unlike... 198 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,000 We can throw darts at the board and maybe pick a real... 199 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,000 Oh, sure, sure. 200 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,000 No, no, no. 201 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,000 That's a granular... 202 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,000 One key thing to know is the beta 2 has a full, complete commercial go live license. 203 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,000 So you don't have to wait to build and deploy applications today. 204 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,000 I mean, the Olympics is going to be using beta 2, so... 205 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:17,000 Right, right. 206 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,000 And Hard Rock International. 207 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,000 Is already using beta 2. 208 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,000 So, you know, you can make those decisions on your own. 209 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,000 But I feel like that release is incredibly high quality. 210 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,000 Sure, sure. 211 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,000 Well, great. 212 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,000 Well, thanks for taking the time to talk about it. 213 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,000 You bet. 214 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,000 Thank you. 215 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,000 Thank you. 216 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,000 Enjoy the rest of the show. 217 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,000 Okay, cheers. 218 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,000 Sorry to make you a swivel head there.